GURPS 4E Forgotten Realms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

GURPS 4E Forgotten Realms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Meldread
12-08-07, 09:49 PM I am wondering if anyone here has attempted to play FR with the GURPS 4E rules, and if so how it changed the flavor of the setting? Was it better / more interesting than with D&D 3.5? What were the advantages and disadvantages, and what did you and those gaming with you like and dislike?

I am contemplating purchasing 4E GURPS and giving it a shot, but I would like some feedback first. Particularly I am interested in how it altered the feel of the setting.
Scathlock
12-09-07, 12:20 PM I switched from AD&D 2nd ed. to GURPS 3rd quite a while ago and dmed both in FR and Planescape. There is not so much difference between GURPS 3 and 4, so I think I can give an answer that might help:

- There are no alignments in GURPS, only mental and social disadvantages which you buy in character creation (and which can change during play quite in the same manner as an alignment change in d&D) which can reflect "alignment" like a code of honor, a sense of duty, bloodlust, megalomania etc. This makes it on the one hand harder for the dm to keep track on which "side of the force" the players are. On the other hand, a violation of a code of honor or the uncharacteristic mercy of a bloodlusty char are easy to spot (and to punish).

Still, even without alignments good and evil exist. But the lines are more blurred and individuals more "individual", which may be a good or a bad thing, depending on the style of play you prefer.

- There are no character classes. Well, there are a few advantages, attribute scores and skills that make more sense for a fighter-type than others, your options for individual character development are in my opinion higher.

- There are no character Levels, only a total character point cost. A character (NPC or PC) with 300 points(high level) is considerably more powerful than a 100 point char. But: you buy all kinds of stuff with character points in GURPS that you don't spend feats and skillpoints on in D&D, like contacts, patrons, literacy, social standing, military rank etc. So, in a combat situatio the 100 point fighter might have a good chance against the 300 point noble diplomat (but not against his bodyguards which he bought for 50 CP).

In short: combat can be unpredictable and extremely risky, also because:

- there are no fat hit point reservoirs. A critical hit is likely to kill. That said:

- still, high cp combat oriented characters can wreak havoc and kill just as many stupid lowlevel orcs as in d&d.

- the GURPS magic system is radically different from the D&D magic system. You learn each spell as a skill. While there are no levels of magic, most spells have prerequisite spells which you have to master first. E.g. for fireball you have to learn to ignite a fire and to control a fire first. Magic might be the area where flavor is changed the most. But: I found you can converse magic items and FR spells quite easily into GURPS. There are some conversion notes on the net. You have to tweak them a bit and look what works for you.

I honestly can say: Give it a shot! Me and my group(s) have played in d&d worlds with GURPS for about 5 years now and never looked back....well the last isn't true, I often look to 3rd edition, d20-stuff for inspiration for new GURPS advantages (GURPS is modular enough to incorporate any d&d-feat). Especially the rather bland and half-baked GURPS Psionics (speaking about 3rd edition GURPS here) gets better with a few d20 feats stirred in.

Good luck!
Suin Bahhar
12-09-07, 02:33 PM Wow. Just wow. I like the sound of that. Magic will be a pain though. Does it define action types?
Sir_Shadow
12-10-07, 12:24 AM I only have the 3rd Edition so wouldnt know about the 4th Edition. I do know that one good swrod hit can kill a character no matter how strong and powerful they are. Which can be good and bad when 20 Points is the most Health the book goes by.

Its good for when you want even a commoner with a knife to be a credible threat to ...anyone. A single hit from any weapon is pretty nasty.
Fingoldfin
12-10-07, 01:03 AM I'm very interested in the gurps stuff. How do you handle monster HPs? Is there a system set up to give extra HPs based on the creatures size? Dragons and giants do have more HPs in gurps right?
Sir_Shadow
12-10-07, 01:37 AM Havent played GURPS in a long time but I can recall an elephant having 50. As I recall, and it has been a while, your average GURPS character may only have 10-12 HP, But armor has both Passive Defense (a number that adds to what opponent needs to hit you and refers/represents to your hit just not really doing anything) as well as Damage Resistance. So Heavy Plate would not let the first 7 Points of damage get through (meaningful since GURPS is d6 based)

You'd have to get one of the GURPS fantsy oriented sourcebooks for the actual stats but guessing here that a Dragon just on its scales alone would make it very hard to do any damage at all to it.
Meldread
12-10-07, 04:49 AM This sounds like what I am looking for although I'm more interested in 4E than 3E. (I've heard 4E GURPS is a vast improvement over 3E.)

However, the same basic question I've had is somewhat unanswered. How would the Realm's FEEL in GURPS as compared to D&D. Case in point, how would Drizzt be different for example? Would he be able to run charging into a hundred orcs and basically wipe out an entire tribe? Would the Simbul actually be looking over her shoulder from the Sons of Hoar coming to take her out or Red Wizard Assassins? Would Elminster actually fear for his life in a conflict with Fzoul or another one of the Zhent Elite?

And most importantly, how will players feel? The game will be less epic, but how does this change the stories told in the Realm's? Is there less "Adventuring" per-say because of the danger? Is there more of a focus on political intrigues and the like? I would think PC's would tend to avoid combat if they could, making use of diplomacy and bluffing skills.

I've heard that (at least in 4E GURPS) you are more likely to disable than kill someone in GURPS. Killing happens less often, meaning you are more likely to take prisoners. Is this true, and if so how does this effect a game?

Does role-playing improved with PC's creating more believable, human and realistic characters? How does the no-alignment thing affect role-playing? Are PC's more likely to be morally ambiguous?
Scathlock
12-10-07, 10:13 AM GURPS 4 compared to GURPS 3: AFAIK 4 is more balanced than 3, so easier to handle for new players and game masters. The basic mechanics are the same.

GURPS is a very modular system which works with different rulesets depending on style of play. The most common styles are: realistic and cinematic (including high-powered cinematic). There are a few others, including silly. In silly campaigns chain mail bikinis (or just skimpy clothing) are as effective as full suits of armor and hollow coconuts increase your movement rate.

I play the Forgotten Realms as a high powered cinematic setting. That means that the weaponmaster advantage is accessible (enabling multiple attacks and parrys per round), the daredevil advantage, which gives boni for reckless behaviour etc. High CP characters are quite powerful and can -in cinematic game style- kill a lot of orcs. Drizzt would be (I haven't used him yet) be a 400 CP char I think with about 4 attacks per round and a weapon skill of above 20, and a damage of 3 to 4 d6. The average Orc (in my campaign) has got 1 attack and parry , a weapon skill of around 14 (parry skill equals half weapon skill), and does 1d6 to 2d6-1 of damage. If you're used to d20 systems this doesn't look too dramatic, but the 3d6 system of gurps (the lower the roll the better, the greater the margin of success the better) makes this battle REALLY unequal. Add to this a magical chainmail which eats up the first 6 or 7 points of damage, and the average orc has only a chance to hit drizzt on a natural 3, and damage him when the blow is aimed at the head, which is statistically much unlikelier than a natural 20 in D&D. Of course, swarming tactics are possible (20 Orcs making a slam attack, stacking their strength for the purpose of throwing him to the ground)) and a couple of orc shamans with offensive magic can be effective too.
In a realistic campaign, the situation would look much grimmer for Drizzt (and he should really think about wearing magical plate armor and taking a dwarf bodyguard company with him).

Killing characters: When Health (average rating of 10) reaches 0, a char must make a successful health roll with 3d6 or become unconscious. when the score reaches -Health (-10 on the average) the char rolls against ht or dies. Maximum punishment a char can take is -5 times health (-50 average). Also, a hit on the head, in the groin etc can make a char stunned or unconscious: So yes, to subdue a char is more likely than to kill him. So becoming a prisoner or taking prisoners is in fact very likely in realistic campaigns. In cinematic campaigns with high health scores and high amounts of dealt damage, characters are likely to still fight when they are below Health, so when they finally fail they're dead.

How do the Realms feel? Well, currently I'm running a campaign in the Silver Marches, with barbarians, orcs, crag cats, colorfull taverns and inns from the Volo's Guide and to me it feels Realmsian.

Yes, Drizzt would definitely charge the orcs.
Yes, the Simbul would be quite powerful. But the magic would work a little differently. E.g. it's quite important how wealthy and resourceful a char is, because every spell costs fatigue (Average Strength 10, average fatigue cost for an explosive high powered fire ball: 6), and wizards, if they don't want to run out of power quickly, have to carry power stones with them, or a lot of cronies from whom they can borrow fatigue. Large Powerstones are VERY expensive and very likely quite quirky (e.g. only usable at night, only while wearing red colours etc.) and cooperative magic most often requires complex and long rituals.As I said, the magic system is radically different and feels different too.

How do the players feel? The game is equally epic. You can take on dragons or iconic NPCs, lead armies, conquer Undermountain etc in a cinematic campaign.

But: There IS less hack and slash and more focus on role-playing, political intrigue etc. Especially since there's no xp reward for won battles. Only for well fought ones. Players det as much character points for a political intrigue, as for a well played romance, a pitched battle or any other played out event which brings the story forward. So, yes, it feels more like an actual story, not like a series of sometimes unmotivated battles.

Is roleplaying improved? Yep. Do players avoid combat? As long as their chars permit, they do.

The PCs are more clearly defined. A morally unambiguous character will be more so in my experience and an ambiguous char will be more ambiguous. Alignment is replaced be advantages and disadvantages. If you don't play these, you lose their boni and don't get CPs. Or you have to change them, much like for paladins in D&D. So, yes,many PCs choose combinations of advantages disadvantages and quirks which place them on the alignment scala in the area of CG and CN, as ambiguous works both ways. To play a CE char may sound cool. To actually play a megalomaniac, self-centered, bloodthirsty sociopath is a little more than most enjoy to play (my brother in law being a famous exception, but then, he's a professonal actor blowing off steam during roleplay^^).
Alediran
12-10-07, 11:29 AM Sounds interesting, I'll see if I can find 4E GURPS. Unless the magic system turns me off then I'll try it.
Scathlock
12-10-07, 01:17 PM I hope this doesn't count as advertising, but you can try GURPS Lite (Fourth Edition), which you can download for free. Its a short (32 pages) summary which helps a lot when you want to find out if you'll like GURPS or not.
Meldread
12-10-07, 02:31 PM Scathlock-

Wow, thanks for your detailed response. I think GURPS 4E might be what I am looking for in a system. Although, I might be toning down the epicness a notch, and since it seems modular, making changes to the magic system to fall more in line (thematically) with the concept of the Weave.
Alediran
12-10-07, 03:14 PM The Lite version didn't have the magic system on it, but the rest was interesting, it's almost a copy of the system used in Paranoia, so it'll be an easy convert if some day I want to do it.
Scathlock
12-11-07, 03:52 AM You're welcome, Meldread.

-toning down the epicness with GURPS is easy :)

- I've heard or read somewhere that someone uses a version of the D&D ("Vancian") Magic system in his GURPS-Campaign by making the Magery advantage not 3- but 9-tiered and assigning the respective D&D-spells to the levels of magery a char has bought. I'm very sure you can work something out by mixing things and fiddling around with advantages.

Alediran,

yea, sry, the Magic stuff is not for free. They really should go d20 and publish the whole basic system on the net.
Alediran
12-11-07, 07:46 AM - I've heard or read somewhere that someone uses a version of the D&D ("Vancian") Magic system in his GURPS-Campaign by making the Magery advantage not 3- but 9-tiered and assigning the respective D&D-spells to the levels of magery a char has bought. I'm very sure you can work something out by mixing things and fiddling around with advantages.

That sounds cool. I would remove the need to know lesser spells in order to learn higher spells (you can get Greater Dispel without Dispel for example, much like how it works in D&D)

Alediran,

yea, sry, the Magic stuff is not for free. They really should go d20 and publish the whole basic system on the net.

A friend had that book and I borrowed it.
The ShapeLess One
12-11-07, 08:02 PM I have the entire Realms converted to GURPS. I find it much better than D20 anyday. Go for getting GURPS.
MarkusTay63
12-11-07, 09:58 PM I tried it with the Character Law system, which is very similar to the one used in Merps (same system, basically) - I liked it, but my players didn't, so we switched back to plane vanilla D&D.

I should try GURPS though...
Lord Karsus
12-15-07, 02:15 AM -I just wanna know what 'GURPS' stands for.
Meldread
12-15-07, 03:32 AM GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The game system is published by Steve Jackson Games.

I guess if people want to really speak their mind against 4E (both 4E FR and 4E D&D) they should just switch systems entirely. :P

I know I'm probably going to be playing GURPS from here on out (or some modified version of it), instead of 4E D&D. I'm leaving my options open for playing 4E FR, but it all comes down to how much work I have to do to make the setting my own. I am debating on getting some people together, creating a wiki, and just going over the setting together and trying to create a comprehensive view of the setting. There would be retcons involved, but only in so far as to bridge gaps, cut out "bad lore", and in general enlighten the setting. The overall goal will be to let people fill in their own details, using the wiki as a place for home campaign information and ideas.
Lord Karsus
12-15-07, 03:33 AM GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The game system is published by Steve Jackson Games.

-Yeah, I looked it up a little after I posted. Thanks, though.
Scathlock
12-19-07, 04:27 PM GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The game system is published by Steve Jackson Games.

I guess if people want to really speak their mind against 4E (both 4E FR and 4E D&D) they should just switch systems entirely. :P

I know I'm probably going to be playing GURPS from here on out (or some modified version of it), instead of 4E D&D. I'm leaving my options open for playing 4E FR, but it all comes down to how much work I have to do to make the setting my own. I am debating on getting some people together, creating a wiki, and just going over the setting together and trying to create a comprehensive view of the setting. There would be retcons involved, but only in so far as to bridge gaps, cut out "bad lore", and in general enlighten the setting. The overall goal will be to let people fill in their own details, using the wiki as a place for home campaign information and ideas.

A wiki dedicated just to an alternate realms or to a good gurps-conversion? I'd love to contribute to the latter. Even if it means transferring all my house rules on converting monsters and stuff from my head into a computer :)
Thomson
12-20-07, 09:13 AM GURPS is an awseome game if you want to go into lots and lots of detail.

GURPS 4th is a lot easier to handle than 3rd, without giving up anything of its versatility.

Also, there are complete rules for designing new powers for your characters. I would definitely create higher level D&D spells as an advantage rather than a skill. With the given rules it is not too difficult for a power whicht does Xd6 of damage at a range of Y with an area of effect. This will be a very high powered game in GURPS, however.

The biggest difference between d20 and GURPS besides the amount of detail and complexity of rules, is the rate of progression for characters.

In d20 you double your power from lvl 1 to 2, and have about a 50% power increase every level thereafter.

In GURPS characters advance at a much slower pace. So you will have to discuss with your gaming group what rate of advancement they prefer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meldread 12-08-07, 09:49 PM	I am wondering if anyone here has attempted to play FR with the GURPS 4E rules, and if so how it changed the flavor of the setting? Was it better / more interesting than with D&D 3.5? What were the advantages and disadvantages, and what did you and those gaming with you like and dislike? I am contemplating purchasing 4E GURPS and giving it a shot, but I would like some feedback first. Particularly I am interested in how it altered the feel of the setting.
Scathlock 12-09-07, 12:20 PM	I switched from AD&D 2nd ed. to GURPS 3rd quite a while ago and dmed both in FR and Planescape. There is not so much difference between GURPS 3 and 4, so I think I can give an answer that might help: - There are no alignments in GURPS, only mental and social disadvantages which you buy in character creation (and which can change during play quite in the same manner as an alignment change in d&D) which can reflect "alignment" like a code of honor, a sense of duty, bloodlust, megalomania etc. This makes it on the one hand harder for the dm to keep track on which "side of the force" the players are. On the other hand, a violation of a code of honor or the uncharacteristic mercy of a bloodlusty char are easy to spot (and to punish). Still, even without alignments good and evil exist. But the lines are more blurred and individuals more "individual", which may be a good or a bad thing, depending on the style of play you prefer. - There are no character classes. Well, there are a few advantages, attribute scores and skills that make more sense for a fighter-type than others, your options for individual character development are in my opinion higher. - There are no character Levels, only a total character point cost. A character (NPC or PC) with 300 points(high level) is considerably more powerful than a 100 point char. But: you buy all kinds of stuff with character points in GURPS that you don't spend feats and skillpoints on in D&D, like contacts, patrons, literacy, social standing, military rank etc. So, in a combat situatio the 100 point fighter might have a good chance against the 300 point noble diplomat (but not against his bodyguards which he bought for 50 CP). In short: combat can be unpredictable and extremely risky, also because: - there are no fat hit point reservoirs. A critical hit is likely to kill. That said: - still, high cp combat oriented characters can wreak havoc and kill just as many stupid lowlevel orcs as in d&d. - the GURPS magic system is radically different from the D&D magic system. You learn each spell as a skill. While there are no levels of magic, most spells have prerequisite spells which you have to master first. E.g. for fireball you have to learn to ignite a fire and to control a fire first. Magic might be the area where flavor is changed the most. But: I found you can converse magic items and FR spells quite easily into GURPS. There are some conversion notes on the net. You have to tweak them a bit and look what works for you. I honestly can say: Give it a shot! Me and my group(s) have played in d&d worlds with GURPS for about 5 years now and never looked back....well the last isn't true, I often look to 3rd edition, d20-stuff for inspiration for new GURPS advantages (GURPS is modular enough to incorporate any d&d-feat). Especially the rather bland and half-baked GURPS Psionics (speaking about 3rd edition GURPS here) gets better with a few d20 feats stirred in. Good luck!
Suin Bahhar 12-09-07, 02:33 PM	Wow. Just wow. I like the sound of that. Magic will be a pain though. Does it define action types?
Sir_Shadow 12-10-07, 12:24 AM	I only have the 3rd Edition so wouldnt know about the 4th Edition. I do know that one good swrod hit can kill a character no matter how strong and powerful they are. Which can be good and bad when 20 Points is the most Health the book goes by. Its good for when you want even a commoner with a knife to be a credible threat to ...anyone. A single hit from any weapon is pretty nasty.
Fingoldfin 12-10-07, 01:03 AM	I'm very interested in the gurps stuff. How do you handle monster HPs? Is there a system set up to give extra HPs based on the creatures size? Dragons and giants do have more HPs in gurps right?
Sir_Shadow 12-10-07, 01:37 AM	Havent played GURPS in a long time but I can recall an elephant having 50. As I recall, and it has been a while, your average GURPS character may only have 10-12 HP, But armor has both Passive Defense (a number that adds to what opponent needs to hit you and refers/represents to your hit just not really doing anything) as well as Damage Resistance. So Heavy Plate would not let the first 7 Points of damage get through (meaningful since GURPS is d6 based) You'd have to get one of the GURPS fantsy oriented sourcebooks for the actual stats but guessing here that a Dragon just on its scales alone would make it very hard to do any damage at all to it.
Meldread 12-10-07, 04:49 AM	This sounds like what I am looking for although I'm more interested in 4E than 3E. (I've heard 4E GURPS is a vast improvement over 3E.) However, the same basic question I've had is somewhat unanswered. How would the Realm's FEEL in GURPS as compared to D&D. Case in point, how would Drizzt be different for example? Would he be able to run charging into a hundred orcs and basically wipe out an entire tribe? Would the Simbul actually be looking over her shoulder from the Sons of Hoar coming to take her out or Red Wizard Assassins? Would Elminster actually fear for his life in a conflict with Fzoul or another one of the Zhent Elite? And most importantly, how will players feel? The game will be less epic, but how does this change the stories told in the Realm's? Is there less "Adventuring" per-say because of the danger? Is there more of a focus on political intrigues and the like? I would think PC's would tend to avoid combat if they could, making use of diplomacy and bluffing skills. I've heard that (at least in 4E GURPS) you are more likely to disable than kill someone in GURPS. Killing happens less often, meaning you are more likely to take prisoners. Is this true, and if so how does this effect a game? Does role-playing improved with PC's creating more believable, human and realistic characters? How does the no-alignment thing affect role-playing? Are PC's more likely to be morally ambiguous?
Scathlock 12-10-07, 10:13 AM	GURPS 4 compared to GURPS 3: AFAIK 4 is more balanced than 3, so easier to handle for new players and game masters. The basic mechanics are the same. GURPS is a very modular system which works with different rulesets depending on style of play. The most common styles are: realistic and cinematic (including high-powered cinematic). There are a few others, including silly. In silly campaigns chain mail bikinis (or just skimpy clothing) are as effective as full suits of armor and hollow coconuts increase your movement rate. I play the Forgotten Realms as a high powered cinematic setting. That means that the weaponmaster advantage is accessible (enabling multiple attacks and parrys per round), the daredevil advantage, which gives boni for reckless behaviour etc. High CP characters are quite powerful and can -in cinematic game style- kill a lot of orcs. Drizzt would be (I haven't used him yet) be a 400 CP char I think with about 4 attacks per round and a weapon skill of above 20, and a damage of 3 to 4 d6. The average Orc (in my campaign) has got 1 attack and parry , a weapon skill of around 14 (parry skill equals half weapon skill), and does 1d6 to 2d6-1 of damage. If you're used to d20 systems this doesn't look too dramatic, but the 3d6 system of gurps (the lower the roll the better, the greater the margin of success the better) makes this battle REALLY unequal. Add to this a magical chainmail which eats up the first 6 or 7 points of damage, and the average orc has only a chance to hit drizzt on a natural 3, and damage him when the blow is aimed at the head, which is statistically much unlikelier than a natural 20 in D&D. Of course, swarming tactics are possible (20 Orcs making a slam attack, stacking their strength for the purpose of throwing him to the ground)) and a couple of orc shamans with offensive magic can be effective too. In a realistic campaign, the situation would look much grimmer for Drizzt (and he should really think about wearing magical plate armor and taking a dwarf bodyguard company with him). Killing characters: When Health (average rating of 10) reaches 0, a char must make a successful health roll with 3d6 or become unconscious. when the score reaches -Health (-10 on the average) the char rolls against ht or dies. Maximum punishment a char can take is -5 times health (-50 average). Also, a hit on the head, in the groin etc can make a char stunned or unconscious: So yes, to subdue a char is more likely than to kill him. So becoming a prisoner or taking prisoners is in fact very likely in realistic campaigns. In cinematic campaigns with high health scores and high amounts of dealt damage, characters are likely to still fight when they are below Health, so when they finally fail they're dead. How do the Realms feel? Well, currently I'm running a campaign in the Silver Marches, with barbarians, orcs, crag cats, colorfull taverns and inns from the Volo's Guide and to me it feels Realmsian. Yes, Drizzt would definitely charge the orcs. Yes, the Simbul would be quite powerful. But the magic would work a little differently. E.g. it's quite important how wealthy and resourceful a char is, because every spell costs fatigue (Average Strength 10, average fatigue cost for an explosive high powered fire ball: 6), and wizards, if they don't want to run out of power quickly, have to carry power stones with them, or a lot of cronies from whom they can borrow fatigue. Large Powerstones are VERY expensive and very likely quite quirky (e.g. only usable at night, only while wearing red colours etc.) and cooperative magic most often requires complex and long rituals.As I said, the magic system is radically different and feels different too. How do the players feel? The game is equally epic. You can take on dragons or iconic NPCs, lead armies, conquer Undermountain etc in a cinematic campaign. But: There IS less hack and slash and more focus on role-playing, political intrigue etc. Especially since there's no xp reward for won battles. Only for well fought ones. Players det as much character points for a political intrigue, as for a well played romance, a pitched battle or any other played out event which brings the story forward. So, yes, it feels more like an actual story, not like a series of sometimes unmotivated battles. Is roleplaying improved? Yep. Do players avoid combat? As long as their chars permit, they do. The PCs are more clearly defined. A morally unambiguous character will be more so in my experience and an ambiguous char will be more ambiguous. Alignment is replaced be advantages and disadvantages. If you don't play these, you lose their boni and don't get CPs. Or you have to change them, much like for paladins in D&D. So, yes,many PCs choose combinations of advantages disadvantages and quirks which place them on the alignment scala in the area of CG and CN, as ambiguous works both ways. To play a CE char may sound cool. To actually play a megalomaniac, self-centered, bloodthirsty sociopath is a little more than most enjoy to play (my brother in law being a famous exception, but then, he's a professonal actor blowing off steam during roleplay^^).
Alediran 12-10-07, 11:29 AM	Sounds interesting, I'll see if I can find 4E GURPS. Unless the magic system turns me off then I'll try it.
Scathlock 12-10-07, 01:17 PM	I hope this doesn't count as advertising, but you can try GURPS Lite (Fourth Edition), which you can download for free. Its a short (32 pages) summary which helps a lot when you want to find out if you'll like GURPS or not.
Meldread 12-10-07, 02:31 PM	Scathlock- Wow, thanks for your detailed response. I think GURPS 4E might be what I am looking for in a system. Although, I might be toning down the epicness a notch, and since it seems modular, making changes to the magic system to fall more in line (thematically) with the concept of the Weave.
Alediran 12-10-07, 03:14 PM	The Lite version didn't have the magic system on it, but the rest was interesting, it's almost a copy of the system used in Paranoia, so it'll be an easy convert if some day I want to do it.
Scathlock 12-11-07, 03:52 AM	You're welcome, Meldread. -toning down the epicness with GURPS is easy :) - I've heard or read somewhere that someone uses a version of the D&D ("Vancian") Magic system in his GURPS-Campaign by making the Magery advantage not 3- but 9-tiered and assigning the respective D&D-spells to the levels of magery a char has bought. I'm very sure you can work something out by mixing things and fiddling around with advantages. Alediran, yea, sry, the Magic stuff is not for free. They really should go d20 and publish the whole basic system on the net.
Alediran 12-11-07, 07:46 AM	- I've heard or read somewhere that someone uses a version of the D&D ("Vancian") Magic system in his GURPS-Campaign by making the Magery advantage not 3- but 9-tiered and assigning the respective D&D-spells to the levels of magery a char has bought. I'm very sure you can work something out by mixing things and fiddling around with advantages. That sounds cool. I would remove the need to know lesser spells in order to learn higher spells (you can get Greater Dispel without Dispel for example, much like how it works in D&D) Alediran, yea, sry, the Magic stuff is not for free. They really should go d20 and publish the whole basic system on the net. A friend had that book and I borrowed it.
The ShapeLess One 12-11-07, 08:02 PM	I have the entire Realms converted to GURPS. I find it much better than D20 anyday. Go for getting GURPS.
MarkusTay63 12-11-07, 09:58 PM	I tried it with the Character Law system, which is very similar to the one used in Merps (same system, basically) - I liked it, but my players didn't, so we switched back to plane vanilla D&D. I should try GURPS though...
Lord Karsus 12-15-07, 02:15 AM	-I just wanna know what 'GURPS' stands for.
Meldread 12-15-07, 03:32 AM	GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The game system is published by Steve Jackson Games. I guess if people want to really speak their mind against 4E (both 4E FR and 4E D&D) they should just switch systems entirely. :P I know I'm probably going to be playing GURPS from here on out (or some modified version of it), instead of 4E D&D. I'm leaving my options open for playing 4E FR, but it all comes down to how much work I have to do to make the setting my own. I am debating on getting some people together, creating a wiki, and just going over the setting together and trying to create a comprehensive view of the setting. There would be retcons involved, but only in so far as to bridge gaps, cut out "bad lore", and in general enlighten the setting. The overall goal will be to let people fill in their own details, using the wiki as a place for home campaign information and ideas.
Lord Karsus 12-15-07, 03:33 AM	GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The game system is published by Steve Jackson Games. -Yeah, I looked it up a little after I posted. Thanks, though.
Scathlock 12-19-07, 04:27 PM	GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The game system is published by Steve Jackson Games. I guess if people want to really speak their mind against 4E (both 4E FR and 4E D&D) they should just switch systems entirely. :P I know I'm probably going to be playing GURPS from here on out (or some modified version of it), instead of 4E D&D. I'm leaving my options open for playing 4E FR, but it all comes down to how much work I have to do to make the setting my own. I am debating on getting some people together, creating a wiki, and just going over the setting together and trying to create a comprehensive view of the setting. There would be retcons involved, but only in so far as to bridge gaps, cut out "bad lore", and in general enlighten the setting. The overall goal will be to let people fill in their own details, using the wiki as a place for home campaign information and ideas. A wiki dedicated just to an alternate realms or to a good gurps-conversion? I'd love to contribute to the latter. Even if it means transferring all my house rules on converting monsters and stuff from my head into a computer :)
Thomson 12-20-07, 09:13 AM	GURPS is an awseome game if you want to go into lots and lots of detail. GURPS 4th is a lot easier to handle than 3rd, without giving up anything of its versatility. Also, there are complete rules for designing new powers for your characters. I would definitely create higher level D&D spells as an advantage rather than a skill. With the given rules it is not too difficult for a power whicht does Xd6 of damage at a range of Y with an area of effect. This will be a very high powered game in GURPS, however. The biggest difference between d20 and GURPS besides the amount of detail and complexity of rules, is the rate of progression for characters. In d20 you double your power from lvl 1 to 2, and have about a 50% power increase every level thereafter. In GURPS characters advance at a much slower pace. So you will have to discuss with your gaming group what rate of advancement they prefer.