Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrailOfDead917 04-15-04, 07:30 PM	I can't stand the point buy system and most of the DMs for games I play use it and now I need to make a character with only 22 points which is ridiculously low and I need help making a usefull character. I can use any race without a level modifier and any class except for a cleric because someone already pick one. Any suggestions will be very helpful. Please Help.
Mystery Man 04-15-04, 07:36 PM	22 point buy is pretty gritty. What is your DM's game plan or has he said much about what it is he's going to try to accomplish?
TrailOfDead917 04-15-04, 07:51 PM	He said he wants it to be "very low powered" and "not too combat oriented but still with a fair amount of combat". He told me that there would be a purpose for any kind of character and that no one would feal left out and he thinks thats what make 22 points fair. He is doing this because in a game he was playing we could use 32 point and he made a really crappy wizard and I made a barbarian and I along with the cleric kill most of the enemies. I remember reading that if you total up your stats and they are lower than 72 your character is too weak to be adventuring and the most you can get with 22 points is 70 so we will probaby not be fighting too many enemies if our characters have the stats of a farmer.
Autosponge 04-15-04, 08:13 PM	Straight 11's human barbarian for the first level (anything left put into wisdom and strength equally). Then become a cleric with the strength/destruction domains if you can. Once per day you can rage/smite/feat of strength on your target. If you miss, run/heal.
Kilamar 04-16-04, 12:40 AM	Originally posted by TrailOfDead917 I can't stand the point buy system and most of the DMs for games I play use it and now I need to make a character with only 22 points which is ridiculously low and I need help making a usefull character. Then I wish you more fun when you roll this with 4d6 next time: 10 11 9 12 13 7 Kilamar
Another Gnome 04-16-04, 03:59 AM	Just to nitpick, Kilamar, those stats would have to be rerolled as per the rules (total modifier 0 or less or highest stat less than 14 before racial modifiers).
Kilamar 04-16-04, 05:19 AM	Originally posted by Another Gnome Just to nitpick, Kilamar, those stats would have to be rerolled as per the rules (total modifier 0 or less or highest stat less than 14 before racial modifiers). [Nitpicking mode on] In my PHB it reads you may scrap them. This is not a rule, this is an option.[Nitpicking mode off]. Kilamar
Mystery Man 04-16-04, 09:40 AM	Originally posted by TrailOfDead917 He is doing this because in a game he was playing we could use 32 point and he made a really crappy wizard and I made a barbarian and I along with the cleric kill most of the enemies. Players characters are supposed to kill their enemies. That's their job. I remember reading that if you total up your stats and they are lower than 72 your character is too weak to be adventuring and the most you can get with 22 points is 70 so we will probaby not be fighting too many enemies if our characters have the stats of a farmer. Hopefully he'll stay true to this course or pc's will be chewed up on a regular basis. :)
Another Gnome 04-16-04, 12:53 PM	No offense intended, Kilamar, I hope you didn't take it as such. My bad for missing the point that scrapping is optional, but that such scores are considered too low is a standard rule regardless. Just like the rule that a wizard may use higher level spell slots to fill them with lower level spells, even though nothing forces the wizard to do so. Or, I could simply admit I was wrong. But I was wrong for a good cause! :P
WotC_RichBaker 04-16-04, 01:23 PM	Build yourself a character that relies on having only one decent ability score. Consider this wizard: Str 8 (0 points) Dex 14 (6 points) Con 14 (6 points) Int 16 (10 points) Wis 8 (0 points) Cha 8 (0 points) You've spent 22 points. As a wizard, you don't care about Strength or Charisma. You're not happy about a hit on your Will saves, but your class gives you a good Will save, so maybe you can live with it. You can certainly trade some Dex or Con for some Wisdom if you want.
Autosponge 04-16-04, 03:41 PM	Plan B, make a human rogue with high strength. If you can't get a flank attack or sneak attack don't engage the enemy. Take a level in fighter (first) if you must to allow two-handed sword or take a god of war and 1 level of cleric (later). This will give you some means of escape (like sanctuary), healing, armor, better weapon choice, and use of spell-triggered cleric items (like wand of CLW); the level in fighter gives you power attack and cleave (I suggest you take them) and use improved initiative for your other feat. Either the Bbn1/clrX, Ftr1/RogX, or Clr1/RogX will give you a good chance of killing your targets before they can kill you if you build them right. With the clerics go for big one-shot hits then back off and heal. With the rogue go for big sneak damage then flee. Don't try to play them like rogues. Use heavy armor, use a 2-hand sword. Backup weapon to the greatsword should be something with reach or something with a trip ability (like flail) but not an exotic weapon (you need the feats).
Sarta 04-16-04, 10:11 PM	Autospongue, the problem with the tactics you are outlying is that every single person in his group will have the same limitations. So hitting once, and then falling back to heal or to run away may not be very viable. Personally, I'd play whatever sounded interesting. I'd bump all your stats to 10 and then spend the other 10 points raising whichever will help the most. Also, keep in mind non-human races. I personally prefer playing humans, but with a tight point buy like this, the bonus stats can really come in handy. Those hard to afford 16's become 18's and so on. It sounds like your DM wants to emphasize role play vs roll play. Spend more time coming up with a fun character concept with good motivations and don't sweat the stats too much. Who knows, he may have you starting with such low stats because of his campaign design and things will all work out well in the long run. Sarta EDIT: Auto's advice on a weapon with reach is very good. I heartily advise anyone to pick one up. A two-handed spear is a simple weapon and can be devastating if used well. A rogue with combat reflexes and a two-handed spear can dish out a lot of damage, as well as fight from behind their favorite warrior.
Autosponge 04-16-04, 10:15 PM	I don't mean run 30 feet and heal, I mean withdrawl, take consecutive run moves and leave the combat all together. After the DM sees this a few dozen times he'll get the idea... mundane heros are boring.
AvengedMutablegenus 04-17-04, 06:01 PM	don't play in the game, or you can just make it 16 13 10 10 10 9
TrailOfDead917 04-17-04, 06:33 PM	All of the characters have been picked but mine and they are: Strongheart Halfling Rouge Moon Elf Wizard Rock Gnome Cleric The DM's rule is no 2 people can take the same class or race so I was thinking we still need an offensive character. Here's what I am thinking: Wood Elf Fighter Str 16 Dex 16 Con 11 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 6 Feats: Combat Reflexes but I don't know what to take for the 2nd feat. My main weapon will be a Glaive because of its 10 foot reach. Any suggestions for the 2nd feat and any that could help make my character better would be very helpfull. Thanks for all the help everyone has given me so far.
AvengedMutablegenus 04-17-04, 06:38 PM	you should go talk to the Character Optimization forums....
Autosponge 04-17-04, 11:01 PM	DM's rule about the race/class thing is also rediculous. You should tell the DM to stick it and go find a fun game. When they've exhausted what they can do with 3 characters of "gimp" status, they'll be ready to play. Plan B (careful it's evil). Tell the DM you're having problems making a character that fits all his rules, but you just want to play. Tell him that if HE makes the character, you'll play it. Be nitpicky. Tell him several times that you need more background info or you don't like certain things. Ask repeatedly to make changes to the character. Once the game finally starts, get yourself killed as fast as possible (under 5 minutes would be great). Then ask if the DM can make you another character.
primemover003 04-18-04, 08:45 AM	Pike the point buy... embrace randomness!!! Roll them bones!
Cunning Linguist 04-18-04, 08:54 AM	I have to agree.. Do it Hackmaster style. Pick your class first, then roll them stats, 3D6 X 6 times, no rerolls. But really, your DM is harsh. I would really try to screw him over with a perfected wizard, or something like that. A deep Gnome Monk, or a Deep Imaskari Wizard.. Point system be damemed, Min Max the hell out of that guy. Charisma of 2? So he's not the talkative guy..
Mystery Man 04-18-04, 10:28 AM	I have to agree.. Do it Hackmaster style. Barf! :uh-huh: But really, your DM is harsh. Nuff said. 22 point buy or 3d6 x6 is still too weak for 3E, unless the campaign consists of the player characters opening doors and saying "oh, hello.....sorry" and closing them again. IMHO.
RobTzu 04-18-04, 02:14 PM	I personally hate Point Buy. Heck it took me 5 minutes to find it, I never use it. But try this: Half- Orc Barbarian Str 16 (10) -18 after Racial Dex 12 (4) Con 14(6) Int 8 (0) 6 after Racial Wis 10 (2) Cha 8 (0) 6 after racial Cheesy? Sure, but so is 22 point buy. Take Track, max out Survival and split Spot and Listen. Feats 1. Track 3. POwer Attack 6. Cleave 9.Improved Critical (Greatsword or GreatAxe)
FineasBoggs 04-18-04, 05:48 PM	I would agree with AM, don't play in the campaign. Do a search on the marketplace boards and get another group. Really if you are going to play with such low stats why bother even having the core classes? Why not persuade your DM to let you all play commoners, experts or warriors. At least that way you will have classes comparable to your stats. Point buy does suck. He cares if you die, you just make a new character with exactly the same stats and tell the DM it is your other character's long lost twin sister...( Your feelings are strong for them....especially for....SISTER! So you have a twin sister?) http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif
Sarta 04-18-04, 07:02 PM	I will be the dissenter here. I'd not sweat the low stats whatsoever and come up with a good character concept that is fun to play. This isn't a video game where you need to maximize your character for complete effectiveness. This is role playing, where memorable characters, not characteristics provide the most entertainment. Your dm has already said that he does not intend to run a hack and slash campaign, embrace that and have fun. You are no better, nor worse off than anyone else in your group. Personally, I've played characters with far worse stats due to poor dice rolling for many years and had a blast with them. Sarta
Kuje31 04-18-04, 07:09 PM	Originally posted by Sarta I will be the dissenter here. I'd not sweat the low stats whatsoever and come up with a good character concept that is fun to play. This isn't a video game where you need to maximize your character for complete effectiveness. This is role playing, where memorable characters, not characteristics provide the most entertainment. Your dm has already said that he does not intend to run a hack and slash campaign, embrace that and have fun. You are no better, nor worse off than anyone else in your group. Personally, I've played characters with far worse stats due to poor dice rolling for many years and had a blast with them. Sarta I have to agree with you but I wasn't going to complain about it. Really people is 2 points difference that much of a big deal! It's only 2 points! Shrug I don't see the problem and I think it's a bit harsh that every one is telling him to leave because the DM want's to run a different, low powered game......
Orion the Raven 04-18-04, 07:44 PM	[Nitpicking mode on] In my PHB it reads you may scrap them. This is not a rule, this is an option.[Nitpicking mode off]. To clarify, this is not an optional rule, but a rule that is an option, meaning that if you generate that low of a character, you, as a player, have, as part of the standard rules, the option to reroll the character. You always have the option under the standard rules given this clause.
The Livewire 04-18-04, 07:59 PM	Originally posted by TrailOfDead917 Any suggestions for the 2nd feat and any that could help make my character better would be very helpfull. Thanks for all the help everyone has given me so far. Stand still.... It's not just for Psychic Warriors anymore!
Nagarhi 04-18-04, 08:33 PM	In the group I play in, we roll characters like this. Choose a character concept. Give the PC's prime stat an 18..:) Roll all other stats, in order, assign as rolled. 3d6 - drop the lowest +6 : gives a result of 8-18, plus your prime has an 18. We always end up with stats everyone likes..:)
FineasBoggs 04-18-04, 11:06 PM	I think it's a bit harsh that every one is telling him to leave because the DM want's to run a different, low powered game...... If it's not the game he wants to play, there is nothing harsh with leaving. Players have as much say in how the game goes as the DM. If it's not what you want to do, then say so. You ultimately have the last word on the issue. http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif
Kuje31 04-18-04, 11:29 PM	Originally posted by FineasBoggs [B]If it's not the game he wants to play, there is nothing harsh with leaving. Players have as much say in how the game goes as the DM. If it's not what you want to do, then say so. You ultimately have the last word on the issue. True I suppose, but myself I wouldn't want some one in my game who is going to nit pick about two missing points either. It is still a bit harsh telling some one to leave because the DM want's to run a lower powered game. It's only 2 missing points, it's not that lower powered! Now if it was more then 2 pnt's I could see but come on.....!