Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kobold Paladin 06-07-07, 07:36 AM	Ok so I am running a campaign in my own setting and I have this player who has only ever played in the Realms and I have never DMed in the Realms and only played 1 campaign I stayed in for 4 sessions in the Realms. I dont know if I dont like it because the DM or the setting itself. Hes having a alot of argument with me away from game night as a result of it, in that my DM style is based around Ebberon and my Homebrew settings and he cant cope with it. This guy should also be on medication for angery managment but refuses to be and is prone to hissy fits. I dont like DMing with a party smaller than 5 so I cant afford to loose this player but can someone please tell me what is inherent to the Realms that affects every campaign set in them? As far as my setting goes this is what I think his problems are; lack of human dominace, national languages over common, lack of a objectively defined 'Evil Races" (Everyone has legitament motivations for their actions), developed areas have functioning magically driven legal systems, as 1 in 200 people are spell-casters magic functions more like technology and finally there is little room for player involvment in the creation of the world* (this guy in praticular, he is way to 'wacky' and nothing about what he wants in his character back stroy fits the theme or mood of the setting even if its not a geographic imposability, he wants to be from a large northern human city desended from nobility but the only northern humans are neanderthol slaves to elves and no other land is north enough to be the city he discribed etc). Its also worth mentioning hes the only player who doesnt like the setting or my DMing. *Character involvment in the creation of the world is incouraged, this setting has been shape drastically from where it could be by a group I've DMed in the past.
Leukrythus 06-07-07, 08:58 AM	You're the DM, and you need to DM to your style. First of all you should listen to his ideas. All good DMs listen to their players. But if he can't get on board with your style, then he needs to go elsewhere. One cancerous player will ruin it for everyone else. You're better off with four good players than a dissatisfied group of five. That problem player seems like he needs to DM his own game and run all his own PCs, because in his narrow mind he's the only one capable of doing things right. The the Realms can be run perfectly to his satisfaction. Personally I'd like to see non-humans become more prominent in FR, but that's just my opinion. I don't believe that I'd want to play in Ebberon, because I don't want any technology in my game. Again, my opinion. It's not right for everyone, I can accept that.
souldnce9 06-13-07, 02:19 AM	Personally your campaign world sounds very interesting. Tell the player if he wants to play in the group then he is going to have to play according to your campaign world, but my group has four campaigns going and we take turns dming. See if he is willing to dm, but if he just doesn't want to be agreeable then I say he has to go. If you don't want to be direct and just tell him to get lost then you can just switch game nights and just don't tell him. hehe :evillaugh I feel that you're just going to get this kind of answer ^ Care to share some more about your campaign? hehe :D
Neely 06-13-07, 05:21 AM	Hi Kobold Paladin, From my little DM experience I have I've already learned it's hard to have a campaign world that fits everyones liking to the maximum. I'm also still learning this. I'm very loose with the settings of the Realms, I like to add my own stuff in it, while one of my players (who also likes DMing) is much more strick to the books and prefabricated material than me. At the other hand of the table I have a player who likes to make up everything her self and doesn't really like all the rules. You can ask yourself if you really need this player or not. For instance if you can find a replacement for him to have your fifth player then you could be more strick in the 'my-way-or-the-high-way' style of playing and show him the door if he doesn't like your style or ruins the mood for everyone. If you're really limited in finding players, that's the case I'm in, then I'd advice you all talk and try to figure out what works best for everyone. It's also been mentioned by others, maybe you could try to offer him a switch in seat. Have him DM a session/one adventure and in the best he'll learn that its easier to criticise your DM than doing it yourself. Goodluck with this, it's always unfortunate to see people getting angry over a game.
Renvale999 06-13-07, 01:02 PM	Ok so I am running a campaign in my own setting and I have this player who has only ever played in the Realms and I have never DMed in the Realms and only played 1 campaign I stayed in for 4 sessions in the Realms. I dont know if I dont like it because the DM or the setting itself. Hes having a alot of argument with me away from game night as a result of it, in that my DM style is based around Ebberon and my Homebrew settings and he cant cope with it. This guy should also be on medication for angery managment but refuses to be and is prone to hissy fits. I dont like DMing with a party smaller than 5 so I cant afford to loose this player but can someone please tell me what is inherent to the Realms that affects every campaign set in them? As far as my setting goes this is what I think his problems are; lack of human dominace, national languages over common, lack of a objectively defined 'Evil Races" (Everyone has legitament motivations for their actions), developed areas have functioning magically driven legal systems, as 1 in 200 people are spell-casters magic functions more like technology and finally there is little room for player involvment in the creation of the world* (this guy in praticular, he is way to 'wacky' and nothing about what he wants in his character back stroy fits the theme or mood of the setting even if its not a geographic imposability, he wants to be from a large northern human city desended from nobility but the only northern humans are neanderthol slaves to elves and no other land is north enough to be the city he discribed etc). Its also worth mentioning hes the only player who doesnt like the setting or my DMing. *Character involvment in the creation of the world is incouraged, this setting has been shape drastically from where it could be by a group I've DMed in the past. To be honest, it's hard going from one setting to the next, and even harder from a pre-made world to home-brew. Personally, I hate home-brew worlds and I refuse to play in them because no one ever fleshes out the world enough and I'm constantly having to ask questions and then I have to have my character go out and find things out. Sorry, I don't except things "Because the DM said so" you've got to have a reason why elves are cannibals or why orcs own half the continent...if you're not willing to write a history about a your shiny new world, then you probably shouldn't be making your own world as IMO you're just lazy and want to make your own world so you can change things you don't like about pre-made worlds. Go ahead, make your own world, but please give reasons why things are the way they are. I've never once heard, played in, or seen a home-brew that was on-par with the Realms or Eberron. So, although I think you're player is an idiot, I can sympathize not wanting to leave the Realms play in a home-brew. Sorry for the rant. LOL
MarkusTay63 06-13-07, 02:28 PM	I find a little Arsenic sprinkled in his Pepsi works wonders. ;) Actually, your homebrw does sound VERY Eberron-influenced... not that there is anything wrong with that. I use some stuff from Eberron in my FR campaign, although most of it doesn't really 'fit' FR. Your campaign sounds very intiguing and well thought out, so you should not change it just to make a single person happy. I've played with his type before, on both sides of the table. Is he really that good a player that his presence is worth disrupting your world? Personally, I find four players optimal (although I've played with single player groups as well as one sixteen player group), so losing him sounds more beneficial then harmful. You can't let a single player bully you into creating things in your world that shouldn't be there. It is your world, not his, and if he doesn't like it he should find an FR campaign to play in. There are many people who are FR-predujice, who simply hate all other settings just because they are not FR. I love FR myself, but I'm intelligent to know that it is not the 'end-all, be-all' of settings. He is being narrow minded, and obviously not even giving your setting a chance. If he still insists on his back-story, and you still insist on keeping him, then I would suggest telling him his story is 100% accurate... and then let him know he has only recently arrived from an alternate prime world. Obviously you already started the campaign, but I would have tons of fun having him not know any of the languages, or perhaps even going so far as to have beneficial magic not work correctly on him some of the time, because he is out-of-sync with your reality, all that sort of fun stuff. When a player tortures me, I torture him back. Eventually they learn... or get lost.
Neely 06-13-07, 05:39 PM	IMO you're just lazy and want to make your own world so you can change things you don't like about pre-made worlds. Sorry for the rant. LOL There was no reason for you to make such an offense. This proves your own immaturity and lack in perception. I could call as easily using pre-fab worlds as lazy as using home-brew. Same goes for people using pre-fab campaigns/adventures. But I don't, because they're both different styles and preferences on how to play d&d. Next time don't rant if you plan to offend and say sorry afterwards.
MarkusTay63 06-13-07, 05:42 PM	I actually didn't read his entire post, so thanks for pointing THAT out. LAZY people create their own WORLDS?! :uh-huh: Just when you think you've heard every twisted piece of logic.... :bored: can't wait 'till Dan gets here.......
Renvale999 06-13-07, 05:53 PM	There was no reason for you to make such an offense. This proves your own immaturity and lack in perception. I could call as easily using pre-fab worlds as lazy as using home-brew. Same goes for people using pre-fab campaigns/adventures. But I don't, because they're both different styles and preferences on how to play d&d. Next time don't rant if you plan to offend and say sorry afterwards. I'm not being offending. I'm simply giving my opinion, in fairly nice way...how bout you stop hurling insults like Immaturity. And my perception is my own perogative and is not accountable to your scrutiny. I don't like Home-Brew, period-dot-end of story. I'm entitled to that opinion, yes I may have been a bit hasty saying that people who use home-brew are lazy, but I've never met a DM who used one who isn't lazy.
Renvale999 06-13-07, 05:56 PM	I actually didn't read his entire post, so thanks for pointing THAT out. LAZY people create their own WORLDS?! :uh-huh: Just when you think you've heard every twisted piece of logic.... :bored: can't wait 'till Dan gets here....... What I mean by lazy is that they don't take the time to flesh out the world, they just go "Here's a map, here's where you are" and then they change cr*p in their world to suit their own ends. "Spellcasters of this guild can cast in an anti-magic field, but you can't" Maybe I've just had bad expieriences but everyone single home-brew I've played in was retarded at best.
MarkusTay63 06-13-07, 06:36 PM	Then you've played in bad homebrews. :( Please don't take that to mean all are bad. I played in one years ago that I still think was one of the most realistic, dynamic worlds I've ever experienced, and let's not forget that FR itself started out as Ed Grenwood's homebrew campaign. I spent two years designing my own years ago before anyone even got to play in it. I know Dan has an on-going, never-ending homebrew world he is 'working on'. Dark Wizard also puts quite a bit of effort into hand-tailoring his campaign, although it is based in FR. You've had bad experiences, but trust me, some homebrews are quite good.
Leukrythus 06-14-07, 10:33 AM	Worse than an ill-conceived home brew world is a "world in a box", where the DM expects the players to not violate canon from over 100 books.
Renvale999 06-14-07, 01:00 PM	Worse than an ill-conceived home brew world is a "world in a box", where the DM expects the players to not violate canon from over 100 books. You see, I completely agree with this. I like using FR and Eberron but I'm gonna let my players change things as they progress and I adjust the storyline as they go along.
Renvale999 06-14-07, 01:05 PM	Then you've played in bad homebrews. :( Please don't take that to mean all are bad. I played in one years ago that I still think was one of the most realistic, dynamic worlds I've ever experienced, and let's not forget that FR itself started out as Ed Grenwood's homebrew campaign. I spent two years designing my own years ago before anyone even got to play in it. I know Dan has an on-going, never-ending homebrew world he is 'working on'. Dark Wizard also puts quite a bit of effort into hand-tailoring his campaign, although it is based in FR. You've had bad experiences, but trust me, some homebrews are quite good. I admit I was a bit harsh on home-brew earlier, but until I've played in one that is atleast half-way decent, I'll probably still hate them. I just think that if you're gonna do something, do it right, don't half-a** it. If I honestly was gonna make my own home-brew, it would be like you said Markus, probably 2 to 3 years before I even play-test it.
ShadezofDis 06-14-07, 01:53 PM	...I'm constantly having to ask questions and then I have to have my character go out and find things out. Sorry, I don't except things "Because the DM said so" you've got to have a reason why elves are cannibals or why orcs own half the continent.... See, the only thing I would have to ask is; Would you're character know why elves are cannibals? If not then I'd take issue as a DM. Point in fact I had to tell a player to "Shut the * up right now or leave." this weekend when he was complaining about "how tough the kobolds are." (The kobolds are exceptionally tough because it's the cream of the crop, this is because they've been in conflict with goblinoid tribes and gnoll tribes for the past month and the reason they're around the PCs is because they've been driven out of their homeland. The kobolds who have survived are the best of the best of the kobolds, minus some kobold leaders who were assassinated by gnoll assassin teams. However, my PCs are completely unaware of this and I'm not going to give the plot away because one player doesn't like that the kobolds have more than 4 hit points.) Now, if you were playing an elf and the DM still didn't inform you why elves were cannibals then you might, might have a reason to say "Well that's stupid and lazy" though the elves themselves might not remember why they are cannibals, or it's a secret that only elven elders are privy to, or something else. Anyhow, that's my rant on metagaming, I hurt PCs for such violations. :)
Renvale999 06-14-07, 05:18 PM	See, the only thing I would have to ask is; Would you're character know why elves are cannibals? If not then I'd take issue as a DM. Point in fact I had to tell a player to "Shut the * up right now or leave." this weekend when he was complaining about "how tough the kobolds are." (The kobolds are exceptionally tough because it's the cream of the crop, this is because they've been in conflict with goblinoid tribes and gnoll tribes for the past month and the reason they're around the PCs is because they've been driven out of their homeland. The kobolds who have survived are the best of the best of the kobolds, minus some kobold leaders who were assassinated by gnoll assassin teams. However, my PCs are completely unaware of this and I'm not going to give the plot away because one player doesn't like that the kobolds have more than 4 hit points.) Now, if you were playing an elf and the DM still didn't inform you why elves were cannibals then you might, might have a reason to say "Well that's stupid and lazy" though the elves themselves might not remember why they are cannibals, or it's a secret that only elven elders are privy to, or something else. Anyhow, that's my rant on metagaming, I hurt PCs for such violations. :) No, what I was saying is that if my character gets wind of elves being cannibals is that if said character went to research why they are cannibals and I all get from the DM is "Because they are" or "Because I said so" Yeah right, this is when I wave the bullsh*t flag and tell the DM he is either lazy(for not fleshing out the history) or an idiot (for not being able to come up with a reason). That's not meta-gaming. That's calling the DM on his BS.
ShadezofDis 06-14-07, 06:10 PM	That's not meta-gaming. That's calling the DM on his BS. That's more than fair enough. I could see several different reasons for elves to be canibals, not as a primary food source (though, with a good mythal I could see that as a potential) but as a ritualistic practice. When you have a homebrew goin on you can include things like a Demon Lord gaining influence in some particular aspects of elven culture. However, I certainly understand that your DM didn't do this at all. I would say that a good homebrew can be the best place to adventure in. I've got at least one of my own that I ran pretty successfully. Though the party really ended up being the main antagonists of the party. ;)
XHereticX 06-14-07, 08:53 PM	In reality, I find it hard to emphasize with anyone who likes Eberron, but it is your campaign and you should tell the player to stop whining. If you really don't know how to do a realms campaign, you could hand over the DM reins to the player temporarily and go do some more research upon the realms. Read more books, get more sourcebooks, talk to great Realms scholars, it all comes with experience. Some other CS aspects can be nice however, just to add a touch of your own originality to the campaign.
Renvale999 06-14-07, 09:15 PM	That's more than fair enough. I could see several different reasons for elves to be canibals, not as a primary food source (though, with a good mythal I could see that as a potential) but as a ritualistic practice. When you have a homebrew goin on you can include things like a Demon Lord gaining influence in some particular aspects of elven culture. However, I certainly understand that your DM didn't do this at all. I would say that a good homebrew can be the best place to adventure in. I've got at least one of my own that I ran pretty successfully. Though the party really ended up being the main antagonists of the party. ;) LOL, I wasn't saying that I played under a DM that did that, I was just giving that as an example. I just wish that if I played in home-brew is was actually done well so I don't feel like I'm playing an alternate version of the Realms or Eberron and the only thing that is changed is whatever the DM didn't like about the world...lame.
XHereticX 06-14-07, 10:53 PM	LOL, I wasn't saying that I played under a DM that did that, I was just giving that as an example. I just wish that if I played in home-brew is was actually done well so I don't feel like I'm playing an alternate version of the Realms or Eberron and the only thing that is changed is whatever the DM didn't like about the world...lame. Agreed, homebrews are only good when the DM actually takes time to flesh out the world and actually creates an original campaign instead of FR -2.0 or Eberron screwed-up version. The best DMs are those that provide a campaign that is rich, original, and suspenseful. It should flow like your favorite novel, cept' ur in the story;)
Leukrythus 06-15-07, 10:27 AM	I admit I was a bit harsh on home-brew earlier, but until I've played in one that is atleast half-way decent, I'll probably still hate them. I just think that if you're gonna do something, do it right, don't half-a** it. If I honestly was gonna make my own home-brew, it would be like you said Markus, probably 2 to 3 years before I even play-test it. What I had used as homebrew was our own planet, and populated it with a romanticized versions of some our our greatest cultures. There were eight significant nations/cultures, and some of the NPCs were people from history, myth and legend. For the most part the geography was the same, but made more severe or idyllic in some areas to present more of a challenge.
Jewelprotector 06-25-07, 09:22 AM	I If he still insists on his back-story, and you still insist on keeping him, then I would suggest telling him his story is 100% accurate... and then let him know he has only recently arrived from an alternate prime world. Obviously you already started the campaign, but I would have tons of fun having him not know any of the languages, or perhaps even going so far as to have beneficial magic not work correctly on him some of the time, because he is out-of-sync with your reality, all that sort of fun stuff. When a player tortures me, I torture him back. Eventually they learn... or get lost. Hee hee...I like this idea. Especially if said character is partially amnesiac, so he doesn't even remember exactly how he got where he is. Work a reason for him to be there into your campaign, and spring it on him at a dramatically appropriate moment. Incidentally, we have a character with a similar background in our current FR campaign--he's from Greyhawk's Oerth.