Help with City of the Spider Queen module [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with City of the Spider Queen module [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
natureofreality
07-08-03, 09:37 PM I am about to put a group through the City of the Spider Queen module. One of the players wants to play a cleric of Vhaeraun. I am having a hard time coming up with a motivation for him to take part in the adventure. Any ideas? Any responses would be much appreciated.
Maskanodel
07-08-03, 09:46 PM Hmmmm. His church may want him to investigate the state of Lolth's clergy or see if the rumours about her disappearance are true. The higher ups may also want to have the PC cause as much damage to Lolth as he can while she's weakened.
natureofreality
07-08-03, 10:04 PM That is an idea. And seeing that Lolth is not granting spells to her clergy then Vhaeraun might see an opportunity to have his clergy take a more direct role against Lolth's followers instead of having them practice passive opposition (thank you Cog for that idea). Thank you for the reply.
Zardnaar
07-09-03, 02:11 AM It should be easy to pull off.

1. Investigate Lolths clergy.
2. Kill any Lolth clergy you find.
3. Kill any other Drow clergy you find (not Vhaeruans)
4. Sieze as much power you can.
5. Pretend you're good buy eliminating the threat to the dales.
natureofreality
07-09-03, 02:42 AM LOL I like the idea Zardnaar. Thank you, that would work perfectly.

:D
FineasBoggs
07-09-03, 01:35 PM On a different note, but along the same lines, I have been working on an interactive dm guide. Its basically all the maps with mouseover events pulling up area and encounter descriptions. I have it almost done, and its much easier to use this than to continually flip through the book looking for the right section. Invaluable DM help.
natureofreality
07-09-03, 03:13 PM Fineas, are you talking about for the City of the Spider Queen module or in general?
FineasBoggs
07-09-03, 03:20 PM City of the spider queen module. I scanned all the maps and then turned them into an image map with hotspots that when mouseovered it calls up all the stats and descriptions for that particular area.
natureofreality
07-09-03, 07:25 PM Wow, I laude your efforts. I wish at times I had a computer or laptop to use at the gaming table.
Mugwort
07-10-03, 04:11 PM I hope you don't mind my adding a question here. I'm also getting ready to run some characters through this module. I've noticed that just about every spellcasting villain you run into in this thing casts haste and then opens up with massive damage spells. Are you changing to 3.5 haste rules (I am), and if so, what tactics are you thinking of using for the spellcasters in here?

Thanks,

Mugwort
natureofreality
07-11-03, 12:45 AM Yes, I am using the 3.5 version of haste. Allowing any spellcaster, PC or NPC, to get off two spells in one round is just devastating. Tactics are a little bit trickier. Basically what I tried to do was take spells from different sources. For example, in Spells & Magic by Bastion Press there is a neat spell called magic missile spray. It's a magic missile with a free trip attempt. Needless to say the guys weren't expecting it when the spellguard fired that one off and knocked one of them into the chasm. I spiced up the spell selection a little bit and varied the sequence they were cast in here and there. If all the spellguards cast the same spells in the same sequence then the party will know what to expect. That includes the protective spells. I also cannot understate the usefullness of dispel magic IMO. A nice area dispel magic on the party or maybe on one of the PC's.
Zardnaar
07-11-03, 01:08 AM I have found the encounters in CotSQ somewhat random. Some are easy for their CR's and others are stupidly hard. Balors as random encounters etc.
natureofreality
07-11-03, 05:50 PM Zardnaar, there are several things which can affect how easy or difficult the encounters in CothSQ can be.

1) the makeup of the party
2) how well the party works together and strategizes
3) how smart the DM plays the creatures in the encounter
4) the equipment the party has available to them

I am sure there are other things I can't think of right now.

For example, you have a 10th level party in an encounter that is EL 12. Points 1-4 can alter the difficulty of the encounter to make it easy or harder for the party. I have run two different groups through the same module before at the same time and found the above to be true for me. One group found one encounter to be more diffiult than it should have been while the other found it easier.
Mugwort
07-11-03, 05:54 PM Thanks. It makes sense that the Drow would have different spells anyway, being cut-off from the upper world and all. Their schools and traditions would be totally different and probably more than a little scary. I think I might throw in some Book of Vile Darkness spells too. None of the other people in my game bought that one (too squeamish I guess).

And I love the dispel magic idea. I have a min/maxer in my group who is playing a sorcerer. I'm letting everyone start at 10th level. I used the point buy system for scores. I used the high-powered version with 32 points. I've been told by another player that this guy has two 18's and the rest of his scores are 8's, which he has boosted up with lots of magic items. I can't wait to dispel those.
natureofreality
07-11-03, 06:01 PM Mugwort, your welcome. I have used spells from the BoVD before with very nice results. Flesh Ripper and Heart Stopper come to mind. My goal isn't to kill the players off every chance I get. I do however like to keep them on their toes and not knowing what to expect. It keeps the game from getting stale and boring. They may think twice and plan a little more if they know the enemies might have spells they have never seen before and don't know what the affects are.

I agree with you that the drow would have different spells which mages on the surface probably have never seen before and their schools and tradition would be different.
Mugwort
07-11-03, 07:18 PM Speaking of killing the characters off...
That hasn't been my goal either, in fact the DM's in my group have sort of avoided that, and that takes the suspense out of things if you're not afraid for your characters' life. Can you give me a plausable way to integrate a new character in this module if a player's character happens to get killed for good, like if they get pushed into the chasm and the other characters can't recover the body?
Zardnaar
07-11-03, 08:01 PM Originally posted by natureofreality
Zardnaar, there are several things which can affect how easy or difficult the encounters in CothSQ can be.

1) the makeup of the party
2) how well the party works together and strategizes
3) how smart the DM plays the creatures in the encounter
4) the equipment the party has available to them

I am sure there are other things I can't think of right now.

For example, you have a 10th level party in an encounter that is EL 12. Points 1-4 can alter the difficulty of the encounter to make it easy or harder for the party. I have run two different groups through the same module before at the same time and found the above to be true for me. One group found one encounter to be more diffiult than it should have been while the other found it easier.

My PCs have found it relatively easy. The Balor lasted 1 round- thats at range and not mellee. I think we min/maxed to much

Party at the moment.
1 Cleric 9/Divine Disciple5 (cleric archer build)
1 Level 13 Aasimar Paladin
1 Level 4 Fighter/3 Rogue/7 Duelist
1 Level 5 Wizard/8 Incantatrix

I have added and removed certain encounters and changed the tactics the Drow use. I hit the part with a Drow strike force of 7 NPCs most of whom were level 9 with 2 being level 7. Most of them were spellcaster and using haste it was a hard battle for the PCs. Repated volleys of magic missile/fireball/flamestrike add up rapidly in damage terms.
natureofreality
07-11-03, 08:35 PM Mugwort, that is a very good question. So far, none of the characters have died. There have been some close calls so far. The character that was knocked into the chasm was a sorceress and had cast polymorph self before the battle.

Some ways to integrate new characters if one or more dies. Well, the new characters could be prisoners of the drow that were captured during one of the raids. Maybe they were passing through or staying in one of the towns hit one night.

They could have come across one of the destroyed towns after the fact and followed the trail right behind the party. Since the party has gone before them and killed some or most of everything they would have an easy time catching up to the party and offering their assistance could be roleplayed out.

The new characters could already be traveling through the underdark for a different reason the coincides with the current party's plans.

Those are the only things I could think of right off hand.

Zardnaar, I have a player that tries to min/max a great deal. While I am not opposed to min/maxing to a certain extent there comes a point where it makes the characters too powerful and then you are left with trying to find a way to challenge them. I will be honest and say that I have never played a high level character or ran a high level game. CotSQ will be my first so it will be a learning experience, but just glancing at the stat block for the balor I am amazed that the party could kill it in one round at long range. DR 30/+3, SR 28, summon tanar'ri, all the immunities and resistances, plus spell-like abilities. Yeah, it is possible that the party min/maxed too much LOL
Sarelle
07-12-03, 08:47 AM Hi. Just wondering, Zardnaar, which book is the 3E Incantrix detailed in? Tome and Blood I'm guessing, or MaoF.
FineasBoggs
07-12-03, 10:57 AM I think it is Magic of Faerun.
Zardnaar
07-12-03, 06:56 PM [Zardnaar, I have a player that tries to min/max a great deal. While I am not opposed to min/maxing to a certain extent there comes a point where it makes the characters too powerful and then you are left with trying to find a way to challenge them. I will be honest and say that I have never played a high level character or ran a high level game. CotSQ will be my first so it will be a learning experience, but just glancing at the stat block for the balor I am amazed that the party could kill it in one round at long range. DR 30/+3, SR 28, summon tanar'ri, all the immunities and resistances, plus spell-like abilities. Yeah, it is possible that the party min/maxed too much LOL [/B][/QUOTE]

Incantatrix gets +2 to beat the SR of outsiders. Dismissal sent it home. The Cleric archer could have killed it in 1 round anyways buit the wizard went 1st.

Incantatrix is in Magic of Faerun.
Sarelle
07-13-03, 06:56 AM Thanks Fineas and Zard.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
natureofreality 07-08-03, 09:37 PM	I am about to put a group through the City of the Spider Queen module. One of the players wants to play a cleric of Vhaeraun. I am having a hard time coming up with a motivation for him to take part in the adventure. Any ideas? Any responses would be much appreciated.
Maskanodel 07-08-03, 09:46 PM	Hmmmm. His church may want him to investigate the state of Lolth's clergy or see if the rumours about her disappearance are true. The higher ups may also want to have the PC cause as much damage to Lolth as he can while she's weakened.
natureofreality 07-08-03, 10:04 PM	That is an idea. And seeing that Lolth is not granting spells to her clergy then Vhaeraun might see an opportunity to have his clergy take a more direct role against Lolth's followers instead of having them practice passive opposition (thank you Cog for that idea). Thank you for the reply.
Zardnaar 07-09-03, 02:11 AM	It should be easy to pull off. 1. Investigate Lolths clergy. 2. Kill any Lolth clergy you find. 3. Kill any other Drow clergy you find (not Vhaeruans) 4. Sieze as much power you can. 5. Pretend you're good buy eliminating the threat to the dales.
natureofreality 07-09-03, 02:42 AM	LOL I like the idea Zardnaar. Thank you, that would work perfectly. :D
FineasBoggs 07-09-03, 01:35 PM	On a different note, but along the same lines, I have been working on an interactive dm guide. Its basically all the maps with mouseover events pulling up area and encounter descriptions. I have it almost done, and its much easier to use this than to continually flip through the book looking for the right section. Invaluable DM help.
natureofreality 07-09-03, 03:13 PM	Fineas, are you talking about for the City of the Spider Queen module or in general?
FineasBoggs 07-09-03, 03:20 PM	City of the spider queen module. I scanned all the maps and then turned them into an image map with hotspots that when mouseovered it calls up all the stats and descriptions for that particular area.
natureofreality 07-09-03, 07:25 PM	Wow, I laude your efforts. I wish at times I had a computer or laptop to use at the gaming table.
Mugwort 07-10-03, 04:11 PM	I hope you don't mind my adding a question here. I'm also getting ready to run some characters through this module. I've noticed that just about every spellcasting villain you run into in this thing casts haste and then opens up with massive damage spells. Are you changing to 3.5 haste rules (I am), and if so, what tactics are you thinking of using for the spellcasters in here? Thanks, Mugwort
natureofreality 07-11-03, 12:45 AM	Yes, I am using the 3.5 version of haste. Allowing any spellcaster, PC or NPC, to get off two spells in one round is just devastating. Tactics are a little bit trickier. Basically what I tried to do was take spells from different sources. For example, in Spells & Magic by Bastion Press there is a neat spell called magic missile spray. It's a magic missile with a free trip attempt. Needless to say the guys weren't expecting it when the spellguard fired that one off and knocked one of them into the chasm. I spiced up the spell selection a little bit and varied the sequence they were cast in here and there. If all the spellguards cast the same spells in the same sequence then the party will know what to expect. That includes the protective spells. I also cannot understate the usefullness of dispel magic IMO. A nice area dispel magic on the party or maybe on one of the PC's.
Zardnaar 07-11-03, 01:08 AM	I have found the encounters in CotSQ somewhat random. Some are easy for their CR's and others are stupidly hard. Balors as random encounters etc.
natureofreality 07-11-03, 05:50 PM	Zardnaar, there are several things which can affect how easy or difficult the encounters in CothSQ can be. 1) the makeup of the party 2) how well the party works together and strategizes 3) how smart the DM plays the creatures in the encounter 4) the equipment the party has available to them I am sure there are other things I can't think of right now. For example, you have a 10th level party in an encounter that is EL 12. Points 1-4 can alter the difficulty of the encounter to make it easy or harder for the party. I have run two different groups through the same module before at the same time and found the above to be true for me. One group found one encounter to be more diffiult than it should have been while the other found it easier.
Mugwort 07-11-03, 05:54 PM	Thanks. It makes sense that the Drow would have different spells anyway, being cut-off from the upper world and all. Their schools and traditions would be totally different and probably more than a little scary. I think I might throw in some Book of Vile Darkness spells too. None of the other people in my game bought that one (too squeamish I guess). And I love the dispel magic idea. I have a min/maxer in my group who is playing a sorcerer. I'm letting everyone start at 10th level. I used the point buy system for scores. I used the high-powered version with 32 points. I've been told by another player that this guy has two 18's and the rest of his scores are 8's, which he has boosted up with lots of magic items. I can't wait to dispel those.
natureofreality 07-11-03, 06:01 PM	Mugwort, your welcome. I have used spells from the BoVD before with very nice results. Flesh Ripper and Heart Stopper come to mind. My goal isn't to kill the players off every chance I get. I do however like to keep them on their toes and not knowing what to expect. It keeps the game from getting stale and boring. They may think twice and plan a little more if they know the enemies might have spells they have never seen before and don't know what the affects are. I agree with you that the drow would have different spells which mages on the surface probably have never seen before and their schools and tradition would be different.
Mugwort 07-11-03, 07:18 PM	Speaking of killing the characters off... That hasn't been my goal either, in fact the DM's in my group have sort of avoided that, and that takes the suspense out of things if you're not afraid for your characters' life. Can you give me a plausable way to integrate a new character in this module if a player's character happens to get killed for good, like if they get pushed into the chasm and the other characters can't recover the body?
Zardnaar 07-11-03, 08:01 PM	Originally posted by natureofreality Zardnaar, there are several things which can affect how easy or difficult the encounters in CothSQ can be. 1) the makeup of the party 2) how well the party works together and strategizes 3) how smart the DM plays the creatures in the encounter 4) the equipment the party has available to them I am sure there are other things I can't think of right now. For example, you have a 10th level party in an encounter that is EL 12. Points 1-4 can alter the difficulty of the encounter to make it easy or harder for the party. I have run two different groups through the same module before at the same time and found the above to be true for me. One group found one encounter to be more diffiult than it should have been while the other found it easier. My PCs have found it relatively easy. The Balor lasted 1 round- thats at range and not mellee. I think we min/maxed to much Party at the moment. 1 Cleric 9/Divine Disciple5 (cleric archer build) 1 Level 13 Aasimar Paladin 1 Level 4 Fighter/3 Rogue/7 Duelist 1 Level 5 Wizard/8 Incantatrix I have added and removed certain encounters and changed the tactics the Drow use. I hit the part with a Drow strike force of 7 NPCs most of whom were level 9 with 2 being level 7. Most of them were spellcaster and using haste it was a hard battle for the PCs. Repated volleys of magic missile/fireball/flamestrike add up rapidly in damage terms.
natureofreality 07-11-03, 08:35 PM	Mugwort, that is a very good question. So far, none of the characters have died. There have been some close calls so far. The character that was knocked into the chasm was a sorceress and had cast polymorph self before the battle. Some ways to integrate new characters if one or more dies. Well, the new characters could be prisoners of the drow that were captured during one of the raids. Maybe they were passing through or staying in one of the towns hit one night. They could have come across one of the destroyed towns after the fact and followed the trail right behind the party. Since the party has gone before them and killed some or most of everything they would have an easy time catching up to the party and offering their assistance could be roleplayed out. The new characters could already be traveling through the underdark for a different reason the coincides with the current party's plans. Those are the only things I could think of right off hand. Zardnaar, I have a player that tries to min/max a great deal. While I am not opposed to min/maxing to a certain extent there comes a point where it makes the characters too powerful and then you are left with trying to find a way to challenge them. I will be honest and say that I have never played a high level character or ran a high level game. CotSQ will be my first so it will be a learning experience, but just glancing at the stat block for the balor I am amazed that the party could kill it in one round at long range. DR 30/+3, SR 28, summon tanar'ri, all the immunities and resistances, plus spell-like abilities. Yeah, it is possible that the party min/maxed too much LOL
Sarelle 07-12-03, 08:47 AM	Hi. Just wondering, Zardnaar, which book is the 3E Incantrix detailed in? Tome and Blood I'm guessing, or MaoF.
FineasBoggs 07-12-03, 10:57 AM	I think it is Magic of Faerun.
Zardnaar 07-12-03, 06:56 PM	[Zardnaar, I have a player that tries to min/max a great deal. While I am not opposed to min/maxing to a certain extent there comes a point where it makes the characters too powerful and then you are left with trying to find a way to challenge them. I will be honest and say that I have never played a high level character or ran a high level game. CotSQ will be my first so it will be a learning experience, but just glancing at the stat block for the balor I am amazed that the party could kill it in one round at long range. DR 30/+3, SR 28, summon tanar'ri, all the immunities and resistances, plus spell-like abilities. Yeah, it is possible that the party min/maxed too much LOL [/B][/QUOTE] Incantatrix gets +2 to beat the SR of outsiders. Dismissal sent it home. The Cleric archer could have killed it in 1 round anyways buit the wizard went 1st. Incantatrix is in Magic of Faerun.
Sarelle 07-13-03, 06:56 AM	Thanks Fineas and Zard.