Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TempistRane 06-28-03, 09:52 PM	So now i have seen the stats for a lot of the R.A novels and well i think Drizzt and them well the ones they put stats for should be epic levle so am i alone on this? what do you people think?
Gadodel 06-28-03, 09:54 PM	Most of Drizzt's rivals are lower level, thus easier to defeat. His only true equal/rival would be Artemis...and he doesn't need to be Epic either.
TempistRane 06-28-03, 09:57 PM	yeah well i still say they need to be higher levle but i see what your talking about but for the sacke of their storys and all the stuff they have done i think they should be a low epic levle
Gadodel 06-28-03, 10:01 PM	Remember, a lot of their stories are about "character development"-and this is done quite nicely. Sure, some of the action and drama hints that they are quite powerful; but characters above 15th level are quite noteworthy already.
TempistRane 06-28-03, 10:04 PM	Yeah i see you point on that 15 lvl in a campain you well should have done some prity big stuff to get there. But maybe its just i think of them as being a lot stronger do to the fact that R.A is a kick...... well a good writer and all but i dont know i just want to see if anyone think the same way i do
Kilamar 06-29-03, 05:06 AM	Originally posted by TempistRane But maybe its just i think of them as being a lot stronger do to the fact that R.A is a kick...... Why do you think they should be stronger? Only because you like R.Aīs stories? Kilamar
Desies 06-29-03, 06:04 PM	I agree with you Tempist. Wulfgar is only level 9...didn't he have quite a part in the defeat of a fairly powerful dragon? That alone should have given him enough experience to be level 12 or 13. There are a lot of NPC's that seem like they should be higher level based on their triumphs. However if all of there triumphs are over things of equal or lesser strength than it will seem very difficult for them but if your level 22 came through it would be a breeze. Tempist I believe your the one that told me you only get better by fighting those stronger than you.:smirk:
Kilsek of Sheverash 06-29-03, 06:08 PM	You could always do a "flash forward" encounter with Epic Drizzt. Detail him yourself, go nuts with epic levels of fighter or whatever, epic feats. For some reason the party has to face him - probably something artifact or deity-based, that way you can still be friends after he slays everyone :) Would be kinda fun!
Mirtek 06-29-03, 06:12 PM	Originally posted by Desies I agree with you Tempist. Wulfgar is only level 9...didn't he have quite a part in the defeat of a fairly powerful dragon? That alone should have given him enough experience to be level 12 or 13. Yeah, but not forget that they would certainly have been frozen to death if not for the DM allowing them an alternate way of defeating the dragon. So maybe they get 0 XP for it and can be glad that the DM didn't let them die. It might seem impressive if you read about Artemis defeating a dozen enemies at once, but always remeber that these guys are most likely 1st level warriors (not even fighters) I think their levels are good as they are and certainly shouldn't be any higher.
TempistRane 07-01-03, 04:44 PM	Mirtek what are you talking about if my PC's whould have thought of killing the dragon that way they would have goten xp. i mean i would hate playing in a game ran by you
sanishiver 07-01-03, 04:50 PM	I think the levels are just about right. :cool:
Jeiroth 07-01-03, 05:09 PM	their levels are ok, could be a bit higher. But their equipment is wrong. Drizzt and Artemis's especially. The equipment they posses is not concurrent with the novels.
Mirtek 07-01-03, 06:38 PM	Originally posted by TempistRane Mirtek what are you talking about if my PC's whould have thought of killing the dragon that way they would have goten xp. i mean i would hate playing in a game ran by you We can argue all night if that was a valid solution. For me this wouldn't be a clever solution but a DM's help to avoid their dead. The challenged a foe which they had by the rules no chance to defeat and they should have known that they can't just go to slay a dragon in-character as well. Making such a decision anyway is the right of a player, but he has to live with the results. In their case the DM was super friendly since he allowed them not only to survive but to defeat the dragon. Personal i think a PC should never die because of unlucky dice rolls or because the DM made an error and gave them a too difficult encounter. But if a PC decides to deliberatley do something really stupid (like search and challenge an enemy he should know being to strong for him), then he shouldn't expect any help from the DM. As a generous DM i would have let the icicle cause 20d6 damage, but to grant them an instakill against the dragon is way beyond just being generous.
TempistRane 07-01-03, 07:27 PM	OMG its a book a book! ok there was no DM they could have picked it up and eaten it its all a book!!!!! a book ok all im saying is when it come to there stats in dnd i think they should = out to about 22 lvl and one more thing its a book dip
TempistRane 07-01-03, 07:29 PM	Jeiroth your right what they have is not right to a point
Mirtek 07-02-03, 04:23 AM	Originally posted by TempistRane all im saying is when it come to there stats in dnd i think they should = out to about 22 lvl And all im saying is when it comes to there stats in dnd i think they are alreay high level enough, i could easily imagine them with 2 levels less. I don't think they should be any higher
TempistRane 07-02-03, 07:30 PM	Now thats just good hear waht you think so many times...NOT and i did not mean stats i ment lvl so my bad
TempistRane 07-03-03, 01:40 AM	Come on i know more people got somthing to say about this
Mr. Wilson 07-03-03, 02:27 AM	should I take this time to point out that my group of four routinely defeats a band of over 40 orcs at once? Now, mind you, I use first level Barbs as the base orc, not those cheesy 4 hp orcs. And my PC's aren't even 7th level yet. Killing 12 people at once, if they are low level, really isn't that big of a deal. Especially if you have Whirlwind attack.
Desies 07-07-03, 02:28 AM	yes it's true that defeating 12 people at once isn't that great if they are weak enough...however, if your PC's can kill 40 level one orc barbarians often than you are doing something wrong (unless you have an butt load of PCs). The orcs would just overrun the PCs. Think about it, a party of 5 would have 8 to one odds. If they were all in rage then that's a lot of damage to take, sure if you have whirlwind attack than you could take them all out, however never forget that they can also attack. I have a feeling you don't role for every orc every round. So don't brag about something like that.
Darkmistress 07-07-03, 06:00 AM	What do I think about this idea of "Drizzt is too low level omg omg!111!"? I think it's ridiculous. The levels are okay as they are, IMO - one level more or two, but hardly epic. What happens in the books happens because Salvatore can't bear to kill off Drizzt and co; they are too popular. It's all about convenient plot device. You know how, in most fantasy stories, the hero(es) always survive some impossible odds? That's because it's a part of the plot. No more. No less. Get over it.
Jerendath 07-07-03, 10:52 AM	Originally posted by Darkmistress What do I think about this idea of "Drizzt is too low level omg omg!111!"? I think it's ridiculous. The levels are okay as they are, IMO - one level more or two, but hardly epic. What happens in the books happens because Salvatore can't bear to kill off Drizzt and co; they are too popular. It's all about convenient plot device. You know how, in most fantasy stories, the hero(es) always survive some impossible odds? That's because it's a part of the plot. No more. No less. Get over it. I agree, I think that Drizzt could have 3 levels more, but that's it. And I love the character and the novels, but let's face the facts, He isn't epic at all, but he is a hell of a character!!:) Thanks Salvatore for writing the novels, I loved it!!
Sothran of Waterdeep 07-07-03, 11:05 AM	i think the stats are ok... cuz if you make them better, you really have to make everything better (higher... at least) and then you really donīt gain anything. :confused: really, the stats are ok... in my book at least! (and that book is good!) :D
SirUrza 07-07-03, 04:13 PM	Yes again I must point something out... THAT BIG BAD DRAGON EVERYONE THINKS SHOULD BE THE GAGE FOR LEVELS ONLY HAS 20something HIT POINTS WHEN THE FREAKIN NOVEL WAS WRITEN!! I can't stand people that don't know anything about D&D when they start complaining about novels writen under 1st edition rules.
sanishiver 07-07-03, 04:51 PM	Originally posted by SirUrza I can't stand people that don't know anything about D&D when they start complaining about novels writen under 1st edition rules. And I can't stand it when grown men act like children. Thus, I'm giving you a time out. Go sit in a corner until you can learn to be nice to people who don't know as much as you. While your there, perhaps you could consider the possiblity that instead of YELLLING, you could instead (politely) educate people about a subject when they inadvertantly demonstrate that they really don't know what they are talking about. Maybe even start a FaQ or keep a list of canned responses (like I do). Lord knows you've been around long enough to be in a position to recognize and help those who need it. It's one of those responsibilities of being :gasp: an adult. :cool:
(Psi)SeveredHead 07-07-03, 05:35 PM	I think they should be higher level. In one of the lastest novels Drizzt could hit an opponent's sword so fast it sang, then disarmed the man and flipped the sword back into his hands. Sounds epic (and overblown) to me. Artemis is also really powerful, and I'd like to know why he only has Search +8 in the FRCS. That is way too low. PS 2e dragons were wusses. Anyone read the Dragonlance story (Fistandantilus reborn) detailing two high level wizards killing a dragon? (One was a lich. Both were Fistandantilus.) They killed him with magic missiles, and the dragon just stood there and took it. I could picture 1e Lolth vs Drizzt - she had 66 hit points, so Drizzt wouldn't even have to try.
TempistRane 07-19-03, 07:46 PM	Now my opineon has moved a little on this one but i want to see what people have to say about me old one
Mirtek 07-20-03, 04:27 PM	Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead In one of the lastest novels Drizzt could hit an opponent's sword so fast it sang, then disarmed the man and flipped the sword back into his hands. Sounds epic (and overblown) to me. Actually that simply requires: More than one attack Expertise Improved Disarm Snatch Weapon Alls this can any 6th level character do. 2nd attack at sixt level, one feat on levels 1, 3, and 6.
Reefy 07-20-03, 06:15 PM	I personally think their levels are fine as they are.
Xae'an 07-20-03, 06:52 PM	Does anybody really think that when R.A. Salvatore is writing a novel he thinks in terms of levels and hp, maybe throws dice? ;) I can hardly imagine that. People can of course discuss arguements why Drizzt, Artemis and the others should be epic or not, but disputing the XP rewards for one of his encounters seems rather far fetched to me. Thinking rule-based is only a good option in the game but it becomes ridiculous if you apply it to the novels. Could a single strike with a sword endanger the life of a character with 124 hp. In the game it can't, but in the novels it can and did - that is quite reasonable and a fact that should better not be changed. I think that Drizzt is already an epic character, as he is the hero of an epic story, he just doesn't have the stats of one but any DM who wants to can change it that way.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-20-03, 07:12 PM	As if Drizzt needs more levels... A lvl 16 character *is* powerful.
Lord Harley 07-21-03, 04:09 PM	people forget it's a BOOK, a NOVEL. someone, prob not even R.A. made those stats for those characters. I know RA doesn't write his book with a PHB at his side. that is his little corner of the realms and if in his book dagger to the gut of a char with 75 hit points in the game, almost kills that character then, well that is what happened. you want to talk about injusttice what about Rastlin in dragonlance. at the begining of the chronicles he is only 3rd level!!! 3rd level!!!! some of the fighters in that group were 6th. and he was 3rd!!!! that is wrong, what did he do for those 5 years? NOTHING? yea right. also I beleve the EPIC book is an optional book right? OPTIONAL...... LH