Hit points [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Hit points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Radacci
04-29-08, 08:04 AM might seem a weird question...
but how would you define the very high HP of lets say an epic fighter?
if sufficiantly high lvl, the fighter could have as much HP of some dragon...which just seems silly.

i see 2 options:

1: lets say i cut myself by accident with a knife and make a big gash in my arm.
being kinda weak as i am, i might faint from the pain, and die from bloodloss.
would high HP mean that a epic fighter would brush it of as like a scratch mark and keep on fighting untill he's like torn apart?
But that would just be weird if he'd keep trying to fight with arms/legs and most of the body being shredded.

2: the body is quite tough and resiliant.
Lets take dried meat for example, it's....very tough, and you'd almost loose your teeth trying to gnaw through it.
would this be high HP?, where you'd need to hack/slash/hammer the fighter untill you fall unconsious from the excursion?
Sounds more like damage reduction to me, or natural armor.
sort of like chopping at a old, very hard/tough tree.

or is there no realistic way of looking at it? (not that realistic is right word, but you get my point i hope :))
seems like it's just there so you could have any possible way of fighting high lvl monsters without dying in 1 hit....but from what i understand of epic fights, it's save or die anyways.
Red_Wizard
04-29-08, 10:19 AM Look at HP as the arbitrary combination of Small wounds, Muscle cramps/ strain, and the fighter becomming winded.

This is perhaps best represented with the alternative system of wound and vitality points, in which only the final 10 odd HP for everyone are the vital ones.

So the fighter might have 300 HP, but the first 290 are his skill in combat, and ability to avoid lethal blows. Unfortunately even the best fighter tires, and can take a lethal hit.

Additionally, 50+ points of damage in a single attack constitues a potential lethal blow from massive damage. A Fort save is required against this or the character in question dies.

-RW
Radacci
04-29-08, 11:55 AM how would a critical be calulated in that system?
would it lower wound or vital points? if it's vital damage, you'd still be able to die from 1 critical from some other fighter with long sword, even though you'd have 300hp. kinda like massive damage. (provided that you only have 10vital points, which is your real hp. thats what you mean right?)
if it's wound points....well, i wouldnt count a critical as small wound, or cramp :) so it'd feel a little weird.

im hoping to make d&d game in the future some time, and i'd like to get away from the several hundreds of HP, and make some new system.
maybe basic 8-10hp+con bonuses would be ok, and then have a stamina/vital/wound system too, where minor cuts and such decrease stamina, and as stamina goes down you loose combat efficiancy or some such. such as you cant make full atks/round, cant run, untill healed.
that would be to troublesome to deal with in PnP im sure. But it'd be ok in a PC game i think.
Diffan
04-29-08, 01:53 PM Here's everything you need to know about wound/vitality system= http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm

Though i've never used the system, i always found hp to be easier to use, keeping things simple. Our group uses pretty graphic descriptions when it comes to being injured, from describing 1 hp damage as a slight scrape or cut to limbs being cut off and lungs being punctured. I do however see the wound/vitality system as very balanced and well rounded.
Radacci
04-29-08, 02:56 PM cool, i liked that system, except some minor things.
many thanks :)
GoldDragon
04-30-08, 07:11 AM might seem a weird question...
but how would you define the very high HP of lets say an epic fighter?
if sufficiantly high lvl, the fighter could have as much HP of some dragon...which just seems silly.

i see 2 options:

1: lets say i cut myself by accident with a knife and make a big gash in my arm.
being kinda weak as i am, i might faint from the pain, and die from bloodloss.
would high HP mean that a epic fighter would brush it of as like a scratch mark and keep on fighting untill he's like torn apart?
But that would just be weird if he'd keep trying to fight with arms/legs and most of the body being shredded.

2: the body is quite tough and resiliant.
Lets take dried meat for example, it's....very tough, and you'd almost loose your teeth trying to gnaw through it.
would this be high HP?, where you'd need to hack/slash/hammer the fighter untill you fall unconsious from the excursion?
Sounds more like damage reduction to me, or natural armor.
sort of like chopping at a old, very hard/tough tree.

or is there no realistic way of looking at it? (not that realistic is right word, but you get my point i hope :))
seems like it's just there so you could have any possible way of fighting high lvl monsters without dying in 1 hit....but from what i understand of epic fights, it's save or die anyways.

Well, over the years I have heard "Endurance points", "Stamina Points", Strength points", "Life points", "will to fight points" and of course "Hit Points"

Of all of them I think "stamina Points" or "endurance points" is a more realistic description of why a Paladin or Cavalier has/had the ability to keep on fighting to "-10HP" by sheer discipline and willpower alone.

It hurts to move when you are cut, even more so when you have a broken arrow or broken piece of weapon in you. The wound feels like it's on fire, burning or a "shocking" sensation with throbbing and jolts of pain equal to the initial pain (if not even more) every time you move. (as someone that has actually experienced "massive injury")

It's basically you body telling you "hey there is something wrong" and the usual instinctive thing to do is to not move so you don't hurt.(again,actual experience)

What is called "Hit Points" would best be described as having the Training, Willpower, to fight the instinctive motive to "just drop" but eventually the pain from the injuries become to much and even a 10,000,00HP creature is going to start thinking about "taking a 5 minute break" when they are down to 300HP cause of all the bruises,gashes,wounds, broken bones, coughing up blood, dizziness from loss of blood and inefeective/damage lungs and such.
Stigger
04-30-08, 08:12 AM Just treat it as an abstract measure that combines luck, stamina, and good ol' fashioned guts and its much easier to deal with.
Valgard
04-30-08, 10:15 AM I used to use (damn expression!) vit & wound points in a D&D game. This works well if you don't want to depend on cure spells so much. This also makes critical hits even more critical, but beware, some fights are gonna be less spectacular than before. Also, sneak attacks and magic weapon bonuses might be overpowered, and it's not easy to even the odds.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Radacci 04-29-08, 08:04 AM	might seem a weird question... but how would you define the very high HP of lets say an epic fighter? if sufficiantly high lvl, the fighter could have as much HP of some dragon...which just seems silly. i see 2 options: 1: lets say i cut myself by accident with a knife and make a big gash in my arm. being kinda weak as i am, i might faint from the pain, and die from bloodloss. would high HP mean that a epic fighter would brush it of as like a scratch mark and keep on fighting untill he's like torn apart? But that would just be weird if he'd keep trying to fight with arms/legs and most of the body being shredded. 2: the body is quite tough and resiliant. Lets take dried meat for example, it's....very tough, and you'd almost loose your teeth trying to gnaw through it. would this be high HP?, where you'd need to hack/slash/hammer the fighter untill you fall unconsious from the excursion? Sounds more like damage reduction to me, or natural armor. sort of like chopping at a old, very hard/tough tree. or is there no realistic way of looking at it? (not that realistic is right word, but you get my point i hope :)) seems like it's just there so you could have any possible way of fighting high lvl monsters without dying in 1 hit....but from what i understand of epic fights, it's save or die anyways.
Red_Wizard 04-29-08, 10:19 AM	Look at HP as the arbitrary combination of Small wounds, Muscle cramps/ strain, and the fighter becomming winded. This is perhaps best represented with the alternative system of wound and vitality points, in which only the final 10 odd HP for everyone are the vital ones. So the fighter might have 300 HP, but the first 290 are his skill in combat, and ability to avoid lethal blows. Unfortunately even the best fighter tires, and can take a lethal hit. Additionally, 50+ points of damage in a single attack constitues a potential lethal blow from massive damage. A Fort save is required against this or the character in question dies. -RW
Radacci 04-29-08, 11:55 AM	how would a critical be calulated in that system? would it lower wound or vital points? if it's vital damage, you'd still be able to die from 1 critical from some other fighter with long sword, even though you'd have 300hp. kinda like massive damage. (provided that you only have 10vital points, which is your real hp. thats what you mean right?) if it's wound points....well, i wouldnt count a critical as small wound, or cramp :) so it'd feel a little weird. im hoping to make d&d game in the future some time, and i'd like to get away from the several hundreds of HP, and make some new system. maybe basic 8-10hp+con bonuses would be ok, and then have a stamina/vital/wound system too, where minor cuts and such decrease stamina, and as stamina goes down you loose combat efficiancy or some such. such as you cant make full atks/round, cant run, untill healed. that would be to troublesome to deal with in PnP im sure. But it'd be ok in a PC game i think.
Diffan 04-29-08, 01:53 PM	Here's everything you need to know about wound/vitality system= http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm Though i've never used the system, i always found hp to be easier to use, keeping things simple. Our group uses pretty graphic descriptions when it comes to being injured, from describing 1 hp damage as a slight scrape or cut to limbs being cut off and lungs being punctured. I do however see the wound/vitality system as very balanced and well rounded.
Radacci 04-29-08, 02:56 PM	cool, i liked that system, except some minor things. many thanks :)
GoldDragon 04-30-08, 07:11 AM	might seem a weird question... but how would you define the very high HP of lets say an epic fighter? if sufficiantly high lvl, the fighter could have as much HP of some dragon...which just seems silly. i see 2 options: 1: lets say i cut myself by accident with a knife and make a big gash in my arm. being kinda weak as i am, i might faint from the pain, and die from bloodloss. would high HP mean that a epic fighter would brush it of as like a scratch mark and keep on fighting untill he's like torn apart? But that would just be weird if he'd keep trying to fight with arms/legs and most of the body being shredded. 2: the body is quite tough and resiliant. Lets take dried meat for example, it's....very tough, and you'd almost loose your teeth trying to gnaw through it. would this be high HP?, where you'd need to hack/slash/hammer the fighter untill you fall unconsious from the excursion? Sounds more like damage reduction to me, or natural armor. sort of like chopping at a old, very hard/tough tree. or is there no realistic way of looking at it? (not that realistic is right word, but you get my point i hope :)) seems like it's just there so you could have any possible way of fighting high lvl monsters without dying in 1 hit....but from what i understand of epic fights, it's save or die anyways. Well, over the years I have heard "Endurance points", "Stamina Points", Strength points", "Life points", "will to fight points" and of course "Hit Points" Of all of them I think "stamina Points" or "endurance points" is a more realistic description of why a Paladin or Cavalier has/had the ability to keep on fighting to "-10HP" by sheer discipline and willpower alone. It hurts to move when you are cut, even more so when you have a broken arrow or broken piece of weapon in you. The wound feels like it's on fire, burning or a "shocking" sensation with throbbing and jolts of pain equal to the initial pain (if not even more) every time you move. (as someone that has actually experienced "massive injury") It's basically you body telling you "hey there is something wrong" and the usual instinctive thing to do is to not move so you don't hurt.(again,actual experience) What is called "Hit Points" would best be described as having the Training, Willpower, to fight the instinctive motive to "just drop" but eventually the pain from the injuries become to much and even a 10,000,00HP creature is going to start thinking about "taking a 5 minute break" when they are down to 300HP cause of all the bruises,gashes,wounds, broken bones, coughing up blood, dizziness from loss of blood and inefeective/damage lungs and such.
Stigger 04-30-08, 08:12 AM	Just treat it as an abstract measure that combines luck, stamina, and good ol' fashioned guts and its much easier to deal with.
Valgard 04-30-08, 10:15 AM	I used to use (damn expression!) vit & wound points in a D&D game. This works well if you don't want to depend on cure spells so much. This also makes critical hits even more critical, but beware, some fights are gonna be less spectacular than before. Also, sneak attacks and magic weapon bonuses might be overpowered, and it's not easy to even the odds.