Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ksbsnowowl 01-09-04, 06:09 PM	Hello, I've been hanging around various sections of these boards for a few years, but have just recently gained an earnest interest in FR. I've recently obtained the FRCS and am about to start a higher-level adventure/campaign set in the Realms. Once it is complete, I'll probably start off some characters at level one. I also have Silver Marches, and am awaiting delivery of MoF in the mail. I still play 3.0 D&D (and am not looking to change.) I thoroughly enjoyed SM, as it gives an excellent, in-depth look at that area of the continent. Well, I recieved several book-store gift certificates for Christmas, and after having purchased quite a few novels that I've been looking forward to, I still have a $20 GC to Border's books. I am now debating whether or not I should purchase Unapproachable East. Is it a good product? Not just in what PrC's it has, but also in the information it provides on that area. Is it going to allow me a good understanding of the geographical and political features of Thay and the other countries it covers? Lastly, I know that it was one of the first products where they started converting to the new 3.5 rules. What effect does this have on its PrC's and other game mechanics-related material? Will it be fairly easy to convert it back to 3.0 rules? I know there will be some skills to be changed around (Survival to WL, Scry, possibly Animal Empathy, etc.), but what about some of the feats? I've heard there are some interesting clan/lodge feats that add quite a lot to things like trip-builds. Are these going to be 'unbalancing' if imported back to a 3.0 game? Thank you for your time and I'll greatly appreciate any advice on the matter.
Lashan 01-09-04, 07:22 PM	Well, I must admit that I haven't been able to play DnD much since 3.5 came out. I haven't really figured out the differences yet. I didn't pay much attention to the little detail when I was reading Unapproachable East (UE). Also, I never got the Silver Marches book. That's not an area that I play in much. Besides, that, I have mixed feelings with UE. I was really happy for the detail of areas that never got detailed. I don't mean Aglarond or Thay, but the other areas. Still, they could have done some more detail. What detail? That, I am not positive on, but I was left wanting a little. I did hear someone say that they didn't really include any NPCs in the supplement. Now, I tell you that I am not a fan to see stats of famous NPCs from novels I don't read in my source books. I do like to have completely new NPCs that are important to the area detailed a bit. I agree with the thought that there weren't really a lot of them. So, what is my opinion? I liked it, but I thought Races of Faerun was better.
ksbsnowowl 01-11-04, 12:14 AM	No one else can give me any opinions on the product? Just a thumbs up or down and if it can easily be backwards-converted; that's all I'm really looking for folks. Please? Anyone?:weep:
Kuje31 01-11-04, 12:29 AM	It wasn't much use to me since I have the old material so a lot of it was rehashed. They added some new races (star elves come to mind), retconned some history (again star elves come to mind and changing the history of the Yuirwood to fit them in). Other wise I haven't really read it cover to cover because again I have the old material. I REALLY wish they had put weather charts in it like they did for Silver Marches. That would have been most useful.
Ardent 01-11-04, 01:53 AM	Unless you're interesting in running a campaign stuck between Faerun and Kara-Tur, the Unapproachable East probably isn't going to have a whole lot to offer you. It includes a few new playable races, a bunch of region-specific monsters, a few region-specific PrCs and a whole bunch of useful information...about the region. I don't think you'll have any trouble using the book with 3.0, myself.
Serinde 01-12-04, 02:48 PM	Last question first, as it's easier: I don't think you should have any problems using UE with 3.0 rules. Is it worth it...I'd clock in with Ardent: buy it if your campaign will be in (or heavily influenced by) that region; otherwise, skip. I bought it because my current character is from Thesk, and other than the brief description in FRCS, there's little to no info to be found elsewhere on that country. I was hoping for the level of detail on life and culture that was in Silver Marches, which I didn't get, but it was still more than was offered by any other source, so what could I do? Much more of the book is devoted to crunchy races, PrCs, monsters, and feats (most of the latter are specific to the new races or else to Rashemi berserkers, to which I say "whoop-de-do"), and I didn't think much of them. Another major disappointment was the lack of fold-out map; there is a one-page map of each country...or at least most of it...at the beginning of each section. Not only is this format annoying for trying to get the big picture, but it means that several border areas and/or spots mentioned in the text don't even show up on a map, because you're limited by what will go on a rectangle of a certain size. I sincerely hope that they reconsider this idea for future regional supplements. Lastly, though this should not be a major selling point anyways, the artwork is pretty awful.
ender 02-04-04, 10:09 PM	I agree with Ardent and Serinde's assessment: the book is valuable for anyone interested in setting their campaign in the UE--but it could have been better. IMO, Silver Marches was one of the best regional sourcebooks ever published for the FR. It included in-depth information about dozens of locations on several levels: geography, weather, flora and fauna, monsters, towns, local powers, current events, and even dungeons. There was plenty of crunch in terms of new monsters, PrCs, useful statistics and tables. But there was a good deal of fluff that really brought the area to life: history, personaly info, rumors, explanations of the new political situation. And a beautiful fold-out map. As far as I'm concerned, Silver Marches should serve as the template for all future regional sourcebooks, rather than the skimpier Underdark and UE.
Tempus665 02-05-04, 03:50 AM	Unapproachable East is one of the best 3.0/5 books written, IMO. It makes you want to play a campaign there. I sleep with it under my pillow :D
Everach 02-05-04, 10:31 AM	Unapproachable East is the template to which all future FR regional sourcebooks should aspire. Very well written and very useful for campaigns in the area. You've got economic trade plots between Faerun and Kara-Tur. The largest Thieve's guild in Faerun. Monsters and Demons in Damara. Civilized Orcs. A nation of power hungry wizards. Slaves, drugs and magic items galore. Ancient ruins. Subterranean Ilmaskar and Drow cities. The rotting man for druid and ranger types to combat. Not to mention an entire elven subrace is on the verge of returning to Faerun due to an outsider invasion. What's not to like?
Masakado 02-05-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by Tempus665 Unapproachable East is one of the best 3.0/5 books written, IMO. It makes you want to play a campaign there. What he said. Our DM flipped through UE and we shelved our Heartlands campaign in favor of a UE one the next session. So far, it's been pretty good. Our party (I'm a 8th lvl Fighter / Shou Disciple) is currently involved in intrigue with the Nine Golden Swords (a yakuza organization based in Thesk). Adventuring in the East has been a nice change of pace from the usually Heartlands-centric Realms fare.
Serinde 02-05-04, 02:55 PM	Originally posted by Everach Unapproachable East is the template to which all future FR regional sourcebooks should aspire. Very well written and very useful for campaigns in the area. You've got economic trade plots between Faerun and Kara-Tur. The largest Thieve's guild in Faerun. Monsters and Demons in Damara. Civilized Orcs. A nation of power hungry wizards. Slaves, drugs and magic items galore. Ancient ruins. Subterranean Ilmaskar and Drow cities. The rotting man for druid and ranger types to combat. Not to mention an entire elven subrace is on the verge of returning to Faerun due to an outsider invasion. What's not to like? The presentation of the above data. All of those things are great campaign elements--but they're line items, many of which we already knew about before the feeping supplement came out anyways. I didn't feel they were well fleshed-out at all in the book (with the possible exception of the blightlord crew; it didn't interest me, but there was a lot there for at least the lion's share of a campaign based around it...though I don't know how they expected a Grand Denoument for such a thing without including stats for the Rotting Man!). The book in general felt very patchy to me: a few things handled in exacting detail, and everything else drawn in broad crayon sketch. (And let me also take this opportunity to grouch again about the one-page map sections. What a bloody nuisance.) Don't get me wrong: I really love all the ideas that the East is founded on. But that's why I was disappointed somewhat by the supplement; I felt that it concentrated too much on hitting off all the items on a checklist ("Got X prestige classes? Yep. "Got Y new monsters, of which Z are templates? Yep. Got Q new races, of which at least one must be elven? Yep") with little more than lip service paid, for the most part, to making it all into a unified whole. It feels very choppy, as if there were little coordination between people working on individual sections. Heck, the Thayan and Rashemi timelines don't even have the same Thayan invasions listed. I agree with Ender that Silver Marches was a much better-designed book, and I too hope that it will be used as the model for future regionals instead.
Lashan 02-05-04, 04:59 PM	Also, I think they could have added more NPCs in the book. Now, I am not talking about crummy NPCs from some novel. I am talking about descriptions of who the movers and shakers are of the given areas. I've seen some of the older books have a bit more of that area. I like that as it gives more detail of what is going on in the area and what to expect. I like the book, as well, but feel that there could have been more. I have not read Silver Marches.
Reefy 02-06-04, 10:05 AM	I'm not playing a UE campaign so I've not bought it, but having looked through it, I have to say I think that Serinde seems to have it pretty much spot on. Silver Marches is much better in my opinion.
Everach 02-06-04, 10:24 AM	Originally posted by ender As far as I'm concerned, Silver Marches should serve as the template for all future regional sourcebooks, rather than the skimpier Underdark and UE. I disagree. Silver Marches was good, but it was too much information for too small an area. I would rather the silver marches be a chapter in a larger book of the north done in an Unapproachable East style. Other chapters could be the dragon coast, spine of the world, anaurach, western heartlands and waterdeep. But that's just me :angel:
Serinde 02-06-04, 10:35 AM	Originally posted by Everach I disagree. Silver Marches was good, but it was too much information for too small an area. I would rather the silver marches be a chapter in a larger book of the north done in an Unapproachable East style. I guess that's the crux of the divergent opinions here. I like that level of detail. More is more! :D
Tempus665 02-06-04, 10:45 AM	Originally posted by Everach Other chapters could be the dragon coast, spine of the world, anaurach, western heartlands and waterdeep. Dragon Coast is not in the north, and personally I think iy should get its own book. The area is too interesting and cool to be just a chapter :)
Everach 02-06-04, 10:54 AM	Originally posted by Tempus665 Dragon Coast is not in the north, and personally I think iy should get its own book. The area is too interesting and cool to be just a chapter :) I don't mean THE DRAGON COAST. Sorry, I meant the blue ocean thingie that runs from Waterdeep north past Luskan to the Sea of Moving Ice and Ice Wind Dale. My bad.
ksbsnowowl 02-06-04, 10:57 AM	Originally posted by Serinde I guess that's the crux of the divergent opinions here. I like that level of detail. More is more! :D I agree; and that's why I ended up buying a movie with that gift card instead of UE. I thank everyone for their time and opinions on the matter. By all means, continue to extol the virtues or faults of this product, as I may yet be conviced to purchase it sometime in the future.
Wooly Rupert 02-06-04, 10:57 AM	Originally posted by Everach I don't mean THE DRAGON COAST. Sorry, I meant the blue ocean thingie that runs from Waterdeep north past Luskan to the Sea of Moving Ice and Ice Wind Dale. My bad. The Sword Coast, you're thinking of.
Everach 02-06-04, 11:18 AM	Originally posted by Wooly Rupert The Sword Coast, you're thinking of. That's it! Teaches me to post without checking the map first.
Ardent 02-07-04, 06:52 AM	For what it's worth, I thought the Silver Marches was exactly what one should expect in a sourcebook, and although our campaign takes place primarily in and around Cormyr and the Dales, a lot of March residents make appearances.
AskaniSage 02-07-04, 11:23 AM	As a huge fan of the Witches of Rashemen, I was hoping the book would have more unique Witch spells, more Witch feats & other unique stuff found only in Rashemen. Instead the Witches seem just like any other mage. Kinda disappointing.....Would have been neat to see some spirit spells since the Witches deal with spirits all the time. But still the book is very interesting. Artwork is either very good (Durthan) or just plain awful. Mostly a rehash of older books but I still enjoyed it since I like playing a Witch from Rashemen.
LupinKnight 02-07-04, 07:54 PM	Yes, most of the art is polarized. Either it's great, or bad (my main grief with the book). I must say it is a good book, yet, I love Silver Marches and think that it was a greater value than Unnaproachable East. Of course, I play in SM almost exclusively, naturally I would like it more. Edited for typos.
Decepticons 02-09-04, 09:03 AM	I own both UE and Silver Marches and personally liked UE a little more. As far as your questions about rule issues, I don't think there would be one at all...a quick glance over leads me to believe that none of the feats or prestige classes presented in UE is going to unbalance a 3.0 campaign in any way (because honestly, 3.5 rules just aren't that different...nowhere near the level of differences there were from 2.0 to 3.0). A few of my players have also been impressed with UE and have requested that my next campaign be in that setting, with a possible tie over into a Kara-Tur or Al Quadim setting (since none of us have played those areas before). In short, I highly recommend both UE and Silver Marches...with UE leading by a nose hair.
Imruphel 02-09-04, 08:11 PM	Yes, it is a very good supplement. Pick up Underdark as well and run a campaign that alternates between the lands of the UE above and various sites below such as the segmented drow city of Undrek'Thoz. And don't forget the Bonegarden.... Also, the presence of so many fiends in the history of the UE makes it a logical area for the placement of Necromancer Games' modules (IMO).