Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alisttair 01-28-04, 11:30 PM	Ok the party is 4 dwarves, one human and one half-elf. Their three wagons are hauled by 2 horses each (so thats 6 horses on top of the PCs). Well there are 3 barrels of water/wagon. So how many days would it take for the 9 barrels of water to be depleted by this group? (before they can reach an oasis in the desert). Also if possible, can someone tell me the difference that would be if they were to travel at night rather than the heat of day and if they decided to consume salt to slow dehydration. Thanks.
The Silk Orchid 01-28-04, 11:44 PM	I weight 150 pounds. Experts say that I should drink 1/3 of my weight in ounces, a day. That would be 50 ounces or 6 or so cups. Figure it from that formula.
Wooly Rupert 01-28-04, 11:45 PM	I thought that consuming salt would lead to dehydration faster... I could be wrong, of course.
Alisttair 01-28-04, 11:48 PM	How many ounces of water does a barrel hold then?
The Silk Orchid 01-28-04, 11:48 PM	Salt pulls nutrients from muscle...I wouldn't recommend using salt. Also traveling at night has risks too...one uses a lot of energy trying to be alert and careful.
The Silk Orchid 01-28-04, 11:50 PM	Originally posted by Alisttair How many ounces of water does a barrel hold then? How many gallons is the barrel? There are 128 ounces in a gallon. 128 times the number of gallons... Also...the characters should wear colors that reflect the heat...like white.
Alisttair 01-28-04, 11:56 PM	It's the 30lb. empty barrel from the Player's Handbook (heavier now of course since it's filled with water). SO yeah I don't know how many gallong and/or ounces that holds.
Wooly Rupert 01-29-04, 12:02 AM	According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, a barrel can hold 30 gallons. 30 gallons is 3,840 ounces.
Alisttair 01-29-04, 12:05 AM	Damn i shoulda looked in there. Ok so now it's 3,840 x 9 for the ammount of water carried. SO that means check the weight of all the horses and characters and basically divide the total by 3 to see how many ounces required per day, and then the total of the ammoung of water carried divided by that number to get the ammount of days of water available in there. Ok i think i got it. Ill go calculate.
Alisttair 01-29-04, 12:14 AM	Now I need to know how much a Heavy Horse (not a heavy warhorse) weighs so i can make my full calculation.
The Deep Dark 01-29-04, 01:56 PM	Im glad Im not the only person who had trouble figuring this out. also a gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs if that helps figure out the load.also how are you keeping the water from spoiling. cause that can happen. like if the barrel was properly sealed on the inside. we had that happen. my character ate one of the others so he would live. and it cut down on the water they needed. CN is a great alignment. but yeah so thats alot of water to be drinking also they are in the desert so dont you need to drink twice as much? I thought I read that somewhere.
Serinde 01-29-04, 04:56 PM	When camping in the Nevada desert in August, my campmates and I use between 1.25 and 1.5 gal/day each; that's theoretically one gallon for drinking, and the rest for washing, food prep, cleaning dishes, etc. Adventurers, canny survivalists that they are, could get by on somewhat less--I mean, we were taking showers with that much water. Living on trail rations, for instance, doesn't necessarily require any water for prep (or, probably, cleanup). I daresay that various environmental spells could help reduce the amount of moisture a person sweats out, which means you have to drink less per day. Traveling at night would be less activity in the heat, yes, but they're still going to sweat a lot during the day; I don't think it would be all that much of a win if water consumption is the only reason for doing it. Of course, if you have a cleric in the group, Create Water makes the whole question a lot easier. :D
Alisttair 01-29-04, 10:37 PM	Well I'm going to be an evil DM and rule that in Anauroch, Create Water doesn't work as a level 0 spell, and can only function at the 9th level (in the Anauroch 2E book there is a 9th level spell Create Water). This way I can force my players to have to find Oases to replenish their water supply with an explanation as to why the spell doesn't work as level 0 (Anauroch's magic drain spell thingy majig thing).
Wooly Rupert 01-29-04, 11:13 PM	Originally posted by Alisttair Well I'm going to be an evil DM and rule that in Anauroch, Create Water doesn't work as a level 0 spell, and can only function at the 9th level (in the Anauroch 2E book there is a 9th level spell Create Water). This way I can force my players to have to find Oases to replenish their water supply with an explanation as to why the spell doesn't work as level 0 (Anauroch's magic drain spell thingy majig thing). The life drain spell shouldn't be in effect anymore. As for the spell you're referencing, it's a wizard spell. I'm not recalling anywhere that says it would be tougher for a cleric to cast it. Besides, I think that was far too powerful a spell for such a simple effect.
Alisttair 01-30-04, 12:31 AM	Well as DM ill make it so that it doesn't work there just to keep things interesting.
ender 02-01-04, 11:32 PM	I googled "desert water intake" and found this link: http://www.reference.org/victorian_space/plants_and_food/food_and_water.htm It is not from a scientific source, but it is geared towards an RPG, so it may be helpful. According to this page a 200 lb. person needs at least 2 qts./day. (Since 4 qts.=1 gallon) 6 people would need 3 gallons/day. Assuming a heavy horse weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 lbs. (googled "Clydesdale"), they should require 12 gallons/day. Assuming that all the horses are heavy horses (is this right, Alisttair?), equine water requirements come to 72 gallons/day. That makes for 75 gallons/day total. If you have three barrels each holding 30 gallons, then you can make it one day with a little to spare. Take into account that this is the bare minimum for survival. As to the variables (day vs. night, etc.), I couldn't find any information in the few minutes I spent with Google. It seems like your characters should seriously think about replacing their horses with camels or llamas or something more appropriate for the desert. On earth, most horses taken into the deep desert wouldn't survive any longer than a tonton on Hoth. p.s. I live in Arizona. Trust me, eating salt to prevent dehydration is not a good idea. :eek: p.p.s. my math skills are roughly equivalent to those of a fourth grader, so if I made a mistake I humbly apologize.
Alisttair 02-02-04, 09:13 PM	Some horses dying in the desert seems like something that could very well pee off the players, which means i oughta do it :)
cwslyclgh 02-02-04, 09:58 PM	actually eating slat tends to dehydrate you faster... that is why you get thirsty when eating popcorn at the movies etc.
Alisttair 02-03-04, 11:56 AM	Wasn't it sugar that made you dehydrate more and salt having Sodium to retain water???
anders 02-03-04, 02:10 PM	Salt binds water to the body. For instance, if you were really really drunk last nigh, you'd really want chips the day after (and of course water). This is beacuse the body needs to fix levels of salt and water.. In normal circumstances (like if you are walking in the desert) I would NOT eat more salt/day (remember the body needs salt as well, but this is most likely included in the dry rations). More salt than that would dry out the body and kill you. I would get camels for the desert (as they are made for the desert), horses are not.
Serinde 02-03-04, 02:13 PM	Originally posted by Alisttair Wasn't it sugar that made you dehydrate more and salt having Sodium to retain water??? A certain amount of salt intake is good for rehydration, yes (especially if you're sweating a lot, which of course takes salt as well as water out of your system). But noshing down on a salt cake (or even pretzels) is way, way more than you need, and will just make you thirstier. Sugars don't dehydrate you more, as far as I know, but it's reported that too high a concentration will slow down your rehydration rate. (That's why Gatorade is 6%; they claim the magic threshold is 7%.)
Kilamar 02-03-04, 03:20 PM	My suggestion is to put more barrels on the wagons. Two horses to pull three barrels is just overkill. Depending on the size of the wagon you should be able to load six or ten barrels. Kilamar
Autosponge 02-03-04, 03:42 PM	Priests (clerics) have a hard enough time being useful. They should be the prize of the desert rather than just another thirsty jackass. As a DM, I'm in the entertainment business, not the screw the players business. I suggest you revisit exactly why you want to carry out this arbitrary speculation about how much water the party will consume. But if you really must know. I suggest using some canon material for this equation rather than making it up. I'll refer you to pg 79 (Desert Survival: Dehydration) of the Al-Qadim Arabian Adventures set (2nd ed.) TSR2126. It's fairly complete and should have everything you need.
Alisttair 02-04-04, 01:32 AM	Originally posted by Autosponge But if you really must know. I suggest using some canon material for this equation rather than making it up. I'll refer you to pg 79 (Desert Survival: Dehydration) of the Al-Qadim Arabian Adventures set (2nd ed.) TSR2126. It's fairly complete and should have everything you need. ACK! I don't have that. I wish I did. Anyways, yeah they actually have one horse per wagon not two. That was a mistake I made. I calculated it at twenty some days before they are out of water. Anyways, the cleric has been EXTREMELY usefell thus far, so this journey won't make him useless. I'm not gonna kill the PCs (they'll only think I'm trying to). They'll find their oases. The whole preventing the Create Water spell scenario is to give them the real feel of the dangers of traveling in the desert. Otherwise, it's just a different looking place to hang around. Not as interesting if you ask me.
Alisttair 02-04-04, 01:34 AM	Originally posted by Kilamar My suggestion is to put more barrels on the wagons. Two horses to pull three barrels is just overkill. Depending on the size of the wagon you should be able to load six or ten barrels. Kilamar Would but we calculated a max of three full barrels/wagon. Then again, your basing your statement based on there being 2 horses per wagon and I only just said its actually 1 per wagon so your suggestion is good but my mistake eliminates it's need. Meh oh well. Thanks anyways.
ender 02-04-04, 06:22 AM	Original post by Alisttair: The whole preventing the Create Water spell scenario is to give them the real feel of the dangers of traveling in the desert. Otherwise, it's just a different looking place to hang around. Not as interesting if you ask me. I agree with you, Alisttair. Even the illusion of danger can go far towards creating an atmosphere for a wilderness adventure. I recently took my PCs deep into the jungles, making them worry about water, heat stroke, and all kinds of nasty exotic diseases. :smirk: No big deal when the cleric can cure it, but it helps to illustrate that they're not just waltzing from one dungeon to another without getting dirty. Also, I've found it actually makes them feel good when they can overcome such "easy" challenges: they feel that they have reached a significant level of power to be able to deal effectively with environmental hazards.
Autosponge 02-04-04, 10:01 PM	Originally posted by Alisttair ACK! I don't have that. I wish I did. Download it like everyone else. http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=899&
Alisttair 02-05-04, 09:06 PM	Originally posted by Autosponge Download it like everyone else. http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=899& I think ill look for it on ebay rather than use up a ton of printer ink.
Autosponge 02-05-04, 09:14 PM	If I printed everything I own on PDF I'd need another room. If I could copy/paste what is says without getting in trouble for violation of copyright, I'd do it to save you the $5. But between your $5 and my arse, I'm covering my arse.
My Lego 02-07-04, 08:50 AM	Look up the section "Starvation and thirst" in DMG 3.5. Basicly you need 1 gallon of water/day/medium sized person in a temperate environment. *4 times that amount if you are large 1 think. *2 - 3 times that amount in hot or very hot environments.