Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mythrus 12-28-05, 01:16 PM	Hello all =) This is my first post here on these message boards but I am needing some help. I am about to start a FR game and I have a player who wants to work towards becoming a choosen of Mystra. I am an experienced DM and player (been playing about 18 yrs. now) and I have never run into a problem like this. I am a big fan of the FR setting and have read all the Elminster books, Seven Sisters and many, many more. What I have come up with so far. First I told my player that this goal is going to be extremely difficult. He has to live, sleep and eat Mystra's goals becoming almost a kindred spirit to her faith and beliefs. I realize that usually one just doesent do a few good deeds in the name of magic and BAM! becomes a choosen. He has to first become noticed by her through his selfless deeds and sacrifices in the name of futhering Magic in the realms. We came up with a nice Prestige Class for him taken from the 2nd edition FR Magister book and converted it to 3.5 rules, I believe it was the Weavespinner. I forget the name at this time. The problems I am facing. How do I do work this goal while keeping the other players involved? I already told this player that when the time comes i.e. many sacrifices, and time has passed and he has gained the notice of Mystra that his character will have to take some time off , I was thinking a few game sessions or even years on quests for Mystra ... basically what Mystra did to Elminister to train him. My campaign is going to TRY a big IF there to return Myth Drannor to the Realms. I was thinking maybe as a climax to have him (if he choses to)sacrifice himself to re-power the mythral towards the end of the campaign. In my opinion this would deffiently gain the favor of Mystra. What do you think? Mythrus
dragonheart 12-28-05, 01:37 PM	I would talk with him and make it clear to him that this is going to be on the back burner with you and the party as a whole. It is his goal but is not going to be dealt with by you in the near future - you will stop to evaluate how he is doing about every 5 levels and have a private discussion then but otherwise the game goes on and its up to him to play his dream out. You might also sit down for a few with each player about every 5 levels to go over their (player and character) goals/dreams. Treated this way your a lot more likely to get good role play from real characters instead of just roll play with stat block cutouts. This also gives each player/character a chance to strive for some private dream and gives you a whole bunch of plot hooks as you can switch off dreams and adventures as you go to keep them all interested and active and maybe even involved in each other's lives and dreams eventually.
Anathema 12-28-05, 03:06 PM	Back burner sounds like the best advice I can think of, depending on what level things are starting at. Mystra espouses the creation of new magic, and I don't think any level spell under 8 would get her attention as far as this goes. The creation of multiple spells level 8+ (including epic level spell seeds and such), as well as multitudes of magic items (necessitating some item creation feats), all go toward getting the notice of Mystra. Even after you've gained her notice (within the epic levels) you'd have to earn her trust. Then one of her other chosen would have to die or get challenged and lose to this PC. Back burner, in this case, because I don't think Mystra would be able to pick him out of a crowd until at least level 20, and that's provided he's done a lot of magic creation or re-discovering of ancient spells. Just advise him that he'd have to devote a lot of his personal energies (experience due to item creation) to even gain her notice, much less her respect, and even much less her trust to implant a part of her divine power in to you.
Arivia 12-28-05, 03:50 PM	He'd have much better luck chasing down Talatha Vaerovree and challenging her to a duel for the position of Magister than actually trying to become a flat out Chosen of Mystra.
Slime Lord 12-28-05, 03:55 PM	Back burner sounds like the best advice I can think of, depending on what level things are starting at. Mystra espouses the creation of new magic, and I don't think any level spell under 8 would get her attention as far as this goes. The creation of multiple spells level 8+ (including epic level spell seeds and such), as well as multitudes of magic items (necessitating some item creation feats), all go toward getting the notice of Mystra. Even after you've gained her notice (within the epic levels) you'd have to earn her trust. Then one of her other chosen would have to die or get challenged and lose to this PC. Back burner, in this case, because I don't think Mystra would be able to pick him out of a crowd until at least level 20, and that's provided he's done a lot of magic creation or re-discovering of ancient spells. Just advise him that he'd have to devote a lot of his personal energies (experience due to item creation) to even gain her notice, much less her respect, and even much less her trust to implant a part of her divine power in to you. To the bold portion: ERm, no. No other Chosen has to die in order for the creation of a new chosen. But all and all like the other two have posted it has to be a back burner event. a few things here, few things there, etc. Ancient spells are always a bonus, creating things are always fun. Just bascially what the others have said. But I do like the idea of the Mythal thing.
createvmind 12-28-05, 04:59 PM	A Character unless somehow able to pry the secrets from a Chosen will have not the slightest clue as to how to become one period. And if he attempts to research it then he will recieve more outrageous information as he goes along since the CHOSEN aren't talking. If this character hasn't pledged himself to the service of Mystra since he started playing, hasn't tried to hoard magic items to himself then there's nothing to even remotely discuss. Your player is basically asking you to give him a non class Template just cause he wants it, it doesn't work like that UUUUUUUUUUUNLESS you allow it of course. I'm curious as to how this converstaion even came about in character, I discuss all kinds of things with my players OOG but anything that has a bearing to the game is always in character. Not talking about mundane things like, "Can my char use bathroom and then go eat and rest up without me making a roll for X, Y, Z?" What players read in sourse books and unless they buy their own I don't allow them to look through scource books without a reason, particularly spell books, magic items, monster books without a VERY good in character reason. I disagree on the selflessness mindset, a person can be driven and selfish and greatly promote magic, Mystra supports the red wizards regardless of alignment and goals of conquest and has recently told the Simbul to leave them be unless provoked. A dedication to the advancement and study of magic is all thats required and I think quite challenging to roleplay. This char should be willing to put himself and party at risk, even expose them to magics just to see and possibly learn from outcome. This will of course make it difficult to party with such a char, infact it pretty much should make him anti-party to begin with. If the objective doesn't include magic pursuit or allow player a chance to test his spells in situations he should be very reluctant to want to participate.
Zandilar 12-28-05, 07:05 PM	Heya, He'd have much better luck chasing down Talatha Vaerovree and challenging her to a duel for the position of Magister than actually trying to become a flat out Chosen of Mystra. Actually, the position of Magister doesn't work that way anymore at Azuth's decree. The last Magister before Talatha was not slain by Talatha. Talatha was chosen by Azuth when the last magister (whose name escapes me) stepped down. To the OP: I probably would not allow this to be a goal for the PC. He might wish to become a Chosen with all of his heart, but Mystra is far more likely to choose someone who doesn't want the position, but whose sense of duty wouldn't allow them to turn it down since their Goddess was asking. If that makes sense?
ElGrecoETAC 12-28-05, 08:15 PM	To the original poster: You do realize that this is much like someone "in real life" aspiring to become something akin to a Saint, right? I'd recommend to your player to take a step back, and try to think of his (or her) character within his (or her) character's mindset. How realistic is it for a young mage to aspire to become a Chosen of Mystra? Depending on the character's background and location, how realistic is it that said character even knows of the Chosen of Mystra, never mind that there is an actual process by which he or she can actually become one? EDIT: I'm confused. Is it the character's motivation to become a Chosen, or is the player simply saying "Macro-development wise, I'd like to shoot for this character becoming a Chosen of Mystra"? I'm simply asking because, even though I often don't like long-term character goals of that nature, I find them more reasonable than a character whose burning ambition, at level 1 is to become a nigh-unique brand of being.
Slime Lord 12-28-05, 08:52 PM	You know what I just thought of? Why not have this character take a few mistakes? Let's say he unknowingly does something that assits...say...Cyric or Shar. Halaster fell under Shar's control for a while, so i would say that you could have him do something "Evil" but not intentionally. Sure, it'll look like a mistake at first - but it's the events afterwards, what the character does to mend those events, that would help (or hurt) his chances of being in the Eyes of Mystra.
KenderBryant 12-28-05, 10:10 PM	If you don't mind a kender's advice...I'd say that the char him(her)self shouldn't actually strive to become a Chosen. It's something that Mystra herself would decide. You could try setting them against several events that have the possiblity of ending up blessed by the goddess, but to actually have a character that has the utter gall to try to become a Chosen on purpose isn't good. El and all the others were given the option of not becoming Chosen. They do sometimes regret it, especially when they had to bury lovers or family or friends. Make sure that the player understands this: Just because you're Chosen, doesn't mean life is going to be easy. You are a target for the vast majority of villains, particularly Shar and Cyric who will do all they can to undermine Mystra. It is a burden, not necessarily a privilege, but the current Chosen bear their burdens by choice. Furthermore, the idea of restoring Myth Drannor does have some merit, but who would be ultimately more concerned: Mystra, or the Seldarine?
BobROE 12-28-05, 10:15 PM	I think the first stumbling block is the character actually knowing what a chosen of mystra is. It's not exactly common knowledge amongst the peasent folk.
BurgerKing 12-28-05, 11:35 PM	I will allow it after some quests (to gain the trust of Mystra, to show love and commitment to magic, and maybe even self-sacrifice for the sake of magic.) 1) Locate the other 50 Nether Scrolls (aside from the ones made into a tree). This quest is to show your dedication to locate lost magic spells and power. 2) Aspire to destroy the Shadow Weave. This quest is to show how much you hate anything that could currupt the Weave. 3) Weaken (or maybe even lock or kill) Shar, Goddess of the Shadow Weave. This quest is to prove your ability to remove any threats to your deity (and magic). Maybe, just maybe, after completing 2 of the 3 quests above, the character may just catch the attention of Mystra.
Zevox 12-29-05, 12:28 AM	Personally, I'd never allow a character that actually aspires to be a Chosen become one. No Chosen in history has ever actually consciously attempted to become such - they were simply "chosen" by thier deity for one reason or another (though some, like the Seven Sisters, were somewhat predestined for it). Actually consciously trying to make your character into a Chosen (whether in-character or out-of-character) is the one sure-fire way to get me to remove the possibility entirely. Zevox
Kadasbrass 12-29-05, 03:11 AM	If I had a player trying to become a choosen, I'd just tell them "The postition has been filled..." :D
Anathema 12-29-05, 04:12 AM	No other Chosen has to die in order for the creation of a new chosen. Well, certainly not. That's why I put the conditional there. Not that one HAS to die for another chosen to be .. uh .. chosen, but if one DOES die, then I would presume another would be promoted. Additionally, if a new one were to be chosen (without any previous death), I doubt it would happen before the actual chosen losing at least one mage duel. Not that I'm suggesting you can just walk up to a chosen, beat them in a mage duel, and then become a chosen yourself; just outlining some of the extreme events that have to occur for a new chosen to be promoted.
dragonheart 12-29-05, 10:31 AM	me again :) if its the character's ingame goal to become a chosen I would have to agree that they can pretty well forget it unless an AWFUL lot happens to them to change their ways. on the other hand I have no problem with a player wanting to aim a character at becoming a chosen. Granted it will not be an easy road there either. one path that might be easier??? would be to aim for magister first and then from magister to be offered chosen when retiring from that position after a long and successful carreer.
Mythrus 12-29-05, 11:02 AM	WOW!, thank you all for this wonderful feedback :D :D I appreciate all your point of views. Let me clear a few things up hehe ... The Pc is not in game activally trying to become a Choosen i.e. Researching the choosen with the intent of becoming one. He is saying this out of game as a long term goal for his character. I was thinking yes, this would be a back burner thing and after a few epic lvls it maybe happens. When and If he does become one thats when he becomes an NPC... see my grps and the grps I have played with for like ever now are not really power gamers .. we come from games/worlds where we love to see our old Pc's as NPC's and hear of there feats and what history they created.... in saying that I know for a fact my player is not just trying to get the template and become all powerful .. what he wants is history meaning maybe a few games down the road there is a guest appearance by this Npc stuff like that. Let me tell you about the campaign so far .. its an all elf party a Sun elf, 2 moon elf's, Wild elf, and a Star elf. I really wanted to delve into the elven history in this game with the climax of the returned city of Myth Drannor. The players worked among themselves to create the elves which worked out well basically an elf from each major line. (Yes, I added Star elves in , but he doesent know much about his past yet) I recently finished the 2 Last Mythal books by Richard Baker and got a small insight into the Star elves which I loved btw. I have been adding in little tests so to speak already ... when we first started the pc's helped a small village from the clutches of Kobolds. After that an old lady approached the pc's from the village. After they helped the village the Old lady thought she could trust the pcs and asked where they were going.. she then hired them (giving up her entire life's savings) for them to escort and protect her grand daughter and bring her to Silverymoon so that she could start her training as a Mage. On the way our Pc in question was estatic with excitment when he learned she had a real apptitude for magic... he had long talk with her and taught her as much as possiable and at the end he gave her his first apprentice spellbook and some coin to start her off on that path... the entire time .. not one mention out of game or an even hint that he was doing this for his personal agenda .. he actually loved doing it just to do it ... As a Dm I love taking everyone's story or personal Adv. and twisting them in so all there stories fit with each others. (If ya can understand that lol ) I love it when the player say "Damn it, I let that evil bad guy get away and he was what I was looking for" So I try my hardest to make sure every part of the story as a whole has something to do with each Pc. I love the suggestions that were posted here ...like Weakening of The shadow Weave ... thast an interesting concept I did not think of. ... hmmm maybe the shadow weave has something to do with the corrupted Mythal of Myth Drannor. wow, thanks again all Mythrus
Slime Lord 12-29-05, 11:53 AM	I still will say if that player (not character) is wanting his character to have the opition one day, you will need to set epic/important events in your game. Example...let's say your playing the CotSQ module. Take something in there, give it a twist but dont' tell the player about it. Let's say you happen upon a torn shred of paper with magic immiting from it. Does he take it? If so, does he keep it (not sensing good or evil) and sell it, or just keep it? If so, use that as something next campaign, etc.
KenderBryant 12-29-05, 11:03 PM	I still will say if that player (not character) is wanting his character to have the opition one day, you will need to set epic/important events in your game. Example...let's say your playing the CotSQ module. Take something in there, give it a twist but dont' tell the player about it. Let's say you happen upon a torn shred of paper with magic immiting from it. Does he take it? If so, does he keep it (not sensing good or evil) and sell it, or just keep it? If so, use that as something next campaign, etc. Yes, drop little tidbits in that will add further campaigns, especially those that further the end goal. Stop a sect devoted to Shar. Heal a dead-magic or wild magic zone (that would be a good way for Mystra to notice). Definite possibility with restoring the mythal at Myth Drannor. That last one could make for a double Chosen (like Qilue), since Corellon is the Elven deity of magic.
Thorne 12-30-05, 02:45 AM	Personally, I'd never allow a character that actually aspires to be a Chosen become one. No Chosen in history has ever actually consciously attempted to become such - they were simply "chosen" by thier deity for one reason or another (though some, like the Seven Sisters, were somewhat predestined for it). Actually consciously trying to make your character into a Chosen (whether in-character or out-of-character) is the one sure-fire way to get me to remove the possibility entirely. Zevox I once played a Dwarven Cleric of Moradin that was destined to be born generations back. He was foretold to be a great dwarven leader & unite all the dwarven clans against a common enemy. His reason for adventuring was that all his life he was groomed to be this great messiah & he wanted to excape his destiny, unknowing that was the path he was suppose to take to learn lifes lessons.
Zsych 12-31-05, 01:41 PM	As a long term goal, i do find it interesting. Of course, what abilities the Chosen have aren't all that amazing. Normally, i'm not sure you can aim to become a Chosen of Mystra, but let us assume that it's not the player himself, but rather Mystra's own choice for it to be his destiny. In that case, i'm not sure anything much could stop him from becoming a Chosen, provided he doesn't manage to embarass Mystra too much. I'm not sure that the caster's level matters much either(at least going by the books). It would mean that Mystra would(possibly without his knowing), create problems/tests for him. Becoming a Chosen of Mystra, may well be a miserable experience for him... I like it! :) Hmm... Larloch has many of the Chosen's abilities(i think). It might be intriguing if your player focussed on becoming similar to a chosen, without actually being granted the ability(wonder what Mystra would think about that) ... Of course, that requires that he actually know the abilities of a Chosen of Mystra... not even most sages know them... and that he be allowed to develop those abilities. Hmm... i'm not sure that Mystra can un-choose one of her Chosen, so the decision has to be carefully made. You could have the Simbul go rogue, attacking Thay, despite Mystra's commands. Stopping her then might be a worthy quest :) Of course, that would mean actually killing the Simbul... not likely to happen easily without Mystra's direct intervention. Too bad none of the Chosen have ever shown signs of being able to effectively use the part of Mystra put in them. If they could, they might be able to escape Mystra's ability to bar them from using the weave. .... This is all beginning to sound like crazy talk. Anyway, basically i'd just say that if he's managed to get Mystra's attention, it's because Mystra wanted him to do those things in the first place, and is just part of her larger plan(not due to his actions... though there's no harm in him hero worshipping the Simbul or Elminster, and wanting to be like them, any mage in Faerun likely knows at least something of them) --- As for how to merge it with the rest of the campaign. If the PC is destined to become a Chosen of Mystra, then quests will come that further Mystra's ends, or test him and the party. Give him some items that will be of use in some part of the quest or sub-quests(with the quests still requiring everyone to help complete them). The other PCs don't need to see Mystra's hand in the quests they do. After all, Mystra is meant to be mysterious.