Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Board_Rider 07-19-04, 02:44 PM	First of all I know that this topic may have been posted elsewhere, and if it is, leave a link. But what I want to know is what do you guys/gals do when your players simply do things that, in your opinion, they should not be doing. Here are a few examples. 1. The current campaign that I am running has a cleric, that a woman plays, of Kelemvor. Thats not the problem. Her INT of 8 tends to get in the way of the female player's actual intelligence and she, I think, uses way too much logic in figuring stuff out in game. Secondly, she comes up with ideas, a good thing, but with that INT I would figure that the others would question or at least come up with other ways themselves. They don't. They follow her almost always. Which brings me too....... 2. Players that are at a gaming table that always start their characters background with "were friends..." instead of actually roleplaying the meeting of the entire party. I am not talking about all players all of the time I am talking about "Steve" and "John" who take smoke breaks together and always put each other above the rest of the party no matter how ridiculous. DM: "Steve"(Ranger) your Paladin (John) friend has been taken underwater by a white dragon..no air bubbles reach the surface. Clearly wounded and in need of help is the Druid that you met earlier in the forest you patrol and jumped in front of the Icy Breath the dragon spat at you. Steve: I take a look into the water.. DM: You see the great white tail and the Paladin lying unconcious at the bottom. Druid:..uuuggggggggghhhhhhh..hey maybe we should go, I am kinda hurt. Steve: I jump into the lake to save my friend!!!!!! DM: Okaaaaay *sigh* Now that may seem honorable and all but come on. That happens alot. 3. When doing anything, characters that aren't actively involved, listen to whats being said to the other PCs. And act on something you told the others. DM: OK you are told by the sherriff that the local jeweler has been acting funny. Other Players: Were going to head to the jewelers place to...ummm...buy some gems. DM: *Sigh* What the........? I know that you can pass notes and such but that can be time consuming. If you guys/gals got something more to add or any examples on what you've encounterd please feel free. Any ideas that you used to overcome the problem go ahead and put em down.
Airicx Velysian 07-19-04, 04:26 PM	You think that is bad? We had to tear our gaming group apart and take a break for about a year before getting back together and "rethinking" how we played the game. With our group people constantly challenged everything the DM did, whether it be by saying the DM was being unfair to them or by breaking out rule books and saying"It says here you can't do that". Another thin, no matter what character they were playing they were all magic item mad. In every battle they would complain if there wasn't a magic item reward, they would refuse a quest if the npc wasn't rewarding them with magic items, etc. Everyone was powermad and had to be the hardest character in the group, etc. Finally we quit playing for a year. Just recently we started again and left out one member in particular. We also all agreed to chill the **** out and listen to the DM. Another thing is I made them agree to forget magical items. By the time we were 14th level we had all the magic items we could want. It was gay. This time around I don't give them ****. So feel lucky you don't have that bad of a problem. To solve it pull your group aside and explain that some changes need to be made. If you have to, stop gaming with a particular trouble maker like I did. It sucks because the guy I don't include anymore has been gaming with me for 12 years. He just got too stubborn and ruined the game.
Board_Rider 07-19-04, 04:49 PM	Keep the stories coming! Everyone at some point had to have problems with something someone has done.
Tempus665 07-19-04, 05:10 PM	I think everybody has their problems with the players from time to time. My gaming group consists of myself (the DM) and 3 players, and one of these is the usual troublemaker. He does a lot of things I don't agree with, especially roleplaying-wise, since he tends to only care about how powerful his character is, and what items he has. He even went as far as downloading the DMG and the MM to look up things :rolleyes: Well anyway, some of the baddest things he's done is kill a dwarven lass because she wanted her (fair) share of an enormous treasure hoard - he had a good alignment at the time. He never lives up to the expectations/dogma of his patron deity, and this deity has changed several times from Moradin to Vergadain to Abbathor to Haela Brightaxe and now finally to Tempus. If he commits religious crimes once again I'll let Cyric have him. :b: He once demanded a couple of halflings to hand him the sword one of them was carrying on his back, just because it detected as being magical. A fight broke out in which (luckily) one of the other party members helped the halflings, and told this character what an idiot he was being. He betrayed one of his party members (wanted to kill her) when she wanted to do something else than he did. And the list goes on...but hey, all in all, we're having fun :)
RM_Renfield 07-19-04, 05:36 PM	To truly enjoy roleplaying you should take two things in to mind. 1 – What kind of people do you have in your group, what makes each person enjoy gaming and want to come back night after night? As the GM it is your responsibility to ensure that the players you have brought together are enjoying a game everyone collectively agreed on playing. In this you will then be able to enjoy running the game. 2 – What sacrifices are you willing to make in players? I have some great friends that I love to hang out with but when it comes to roleplaying I refuse to game with them. You will have to decide whether or not the sacrifice in your story, plot, character developments and the like are more important than the person(s) who make it un-enjoyable. Remember that no all people want the same thing out of a game and do not make the mistake of thinking that your way is the best way to game. Shake hands, parts ways saying that you and they are simply looking for different experiences in gaming.
Cold Napalm 07-20-04, 01:41 AM	Well one why to make sure that it's the stats and not the players is to use stat checks more...but that does take away from the RP aspect of the game and more about numbers. But it also helps if one of your player wants to play say a charsimatic swashbuckler, intelligent wizard or a wise sage but say has a tendency to stick his/her foot in the mouth a lot, not too bright or has no common sense. It's kind of a way to ease them into that role...nothing makes somebody want to not play a character more then being useless not because their stats are bad, but because they can't seem to do anything with those stats. So it's a trade off...but i suggest if the lady is being vary smart with a low int score, calk it up to wisdom, she's wise and can feel the right way to go. As for sub klicks in the game...well it's kind of hard to overcome, really without using pre-made characters anyways. Besides, if you force a conflict in game, that might hurt their real life friendship if done horrible wrong so it's usually not worthwhile to try IMHO. As for everyone going off to do what they want seperately, well...if they do it once in a while some one on one play is fine, but if they start to abuse it (like i think in your game), then go fine you go do this, roll me a <blank> check and fast foward to the rest of the party.
warlockco 07-20-04, 02:10 AM	Think that is bad, in a group I was in, we had a player that was a Half-Elf Paladin/Cleric of Tyr, that got hosed hardcore by the DM. We were adventuring in Cormanthor, the PC was feeling discrimination by the Elves for being a half-breed, and from the humans for not being human. A Half-Orc Barbarian that was responsible for burning down a tavern in Tilverton but never had charges brought against him strangely was possessed permanently by an evil spirit and the elven elders changed him into a Shambling Mound so the spirit couldn't get into more mischief. Player of said Half-Orc has a new character that is a Fighter/Cleric of Hoar, is very happy with new character. We have a Fairy Princess (Sprite Rogue/Wizard) (DM's wife) that "supposively hobnobbed with the gods" all the time. The Half-Elf manages to save up enough of his portion of treasure (10th level characters at this time), and requests a Miracle from his church to become a full elf (no response ever on this from the DM), later on we acquire a few magic items that are supposed to give Natural Lycanthropy to the users. We specifically asked the DM on this point if it was Natural or Afflicted Lycanthropy. We got a definate Natural, we gave him the one that makes him into a Werelion (which the DM said was LG), next thing we know he has become a beast and slaughtered several of our followers, and runs off into the woods. We have to capture him, and then a Celestial Servant of Tyr appears before us and strips the Paladin/Cleric of Tyr of all his powers and brands him with a mark that proclaims he is "Evil" and is to never receive help from any of the good or neutral gods ever. (Note the DM never forced an alignment change, PC is still Lawful Good.) Several of the PC's magic items are taken away (weapons and armor) since they had been further enchanted by the church. The Fairy Princess testifies against him before the Celestial Servant saying that as a Paladin he should have requested a Miracle to restore the Half-Orc Barbarian to normal (from someone that supposively hobnobs with the gods), the Celestial Servant derides him for purposely infecting himself with a foul disease (after we had repeatedly asked if it was Natural or Afflicted Lycanthropy), and for not being true to his nature (where is the justice for getting racial discrimation from everyone that one encouters? wanting to become fully elven or human is a natural and just response to said discrimination, and getting judged on that when said request was never denied or even responsed to). The player of the Half-Orc Barbarian, started up his Kalamar campaign, the previous DM has a Elf Ranger that is a bit of an outlaw, another PC is a Pirate (wife of prev DM), my character was a Ranger bounty hunter, all the sudden I'm being stabbed in the back for being a bounty hunter because the previous DM and his wife think I will try and capture them for the as yet un-named bounties that might be on their heads. Just because I'm a bounty hunter, doesn't mean that I turn in everyone that I see, especially when I was a contracted bounty hunter, I was never offered any contracts to pick up those two PCs, yet at the first chance they had, they killed my character. So me and the player of the Paladin/Cleric of Tyr left that group and have not bothered to return since.
Finder 07-20-04, 02:14 AM	I can sympathize with anyone on player problems. The following is a list of my players 1. The complete powergamer. He uses ridiculous races and classes out of any source book he can find, I have to constantly check his record sheet to see what he's sneaking in. (Since I Don't allow most off the wall source books.) He once used a feral blood orc barbarian fighter. What the crap it had like DR 20/- or some crap and fast healing 5. 2. I have the classic whiner. He whines everytime something goes against him. If his character dies he refuses to be raised and makes another one just like his previous. He always uses your steriotypical human fighter in full plate with a longsword and shield and rarily names his guys. He plays like its a competition. Sadly he lives near me and usually notices when we're playing and we *forgot* to call him. 3. This guy always plays the cleric, because he doesn't have an opinion its just he gets stuck with it and never stands up and says no. He never talks and its like he just a walking bandaid. Players are like hey steve give me a cure spell dude im hurt and thats basically his role. 4. The guy that has been playing for 6 years and still doesn' know the rules. He can't make his own character. He is like a toddler. 5. The doomed guy, he always rolls bad at the worst situation and always gets into arguments with the whiny guy (see #2). In one campaign this guy died 2 times extravagantly. Once a fireball went off and set off the necklace of missles he was carrying which in turn tore up the the bag of holding and created a planar rift. I have my share of problems any solutions?
Cold Napalm 07-20-04, 02:59 AM	Hehe, we had a guys who played a character who didn't like magic...I mean REALLY didn't like magic. He decked our cleric for healing him. My current character in one game never ask for heals, if he gets it fine, if anybody asks how he is, he replys fine...even at 0 hp which was funny because right after I attacked and fell down. Tell your cleric only guy the party doesn't always need a cleric. As for the doomed guy...umm buy new dice, load them and give them to him if he's that bad. If he's still doomed, umm well he'd really doomed and have him play fatalistic doomed characters...it'll work out wonderfully. As for the guy who doesn't know the mechanics, that fine as long as he plays well right? If he has great RP aspect and idead, then he's fine not knowing the rules. In fact teaching him the rules might negate or lower this quality. If he's not good at RP, try teaching him that first...he might just be bad at memory/rules and might take to RP like a fish to water. Now the first two...umm just suck really... The whiner, introduce him to the wonderfull world of wonk and broken to get him to play some different characters...just becareful he doesn't end up as player #1. As for player 1...umm power gamers...yeah...just say no alot. He looks at you, say no. It's much easier to deal with the first two players if you have the last 3 on your side and they are definately managable.
GothicDan 07-20-04, 04:40 PM	Current game I'm in is a 2E Dragonlance game, but the basic ideas still apply. 1. Me. Silvanesti Elf, Necromancer Undead Master Kit. Lawful Evil. Which means, effectively, smart evil. I'm sneaky. 2. My best friend. He playes a Svirfneblin Assassin. Neutral Evil. 3. Crazy Totem Warrior/Barbarian type guy. Chaotic Neutral, I think. He HATES any forms of arcane magic. 4. Cleric of Paladine. A Healer who is one of those uber-zealous types, who punishes every lie, etc. I think he's Lawful Good. 5. Mysterious guy. Half-elf or Elf Wizard of some sort. He doesn't talk a lot, but his character seems to be either neutral or evil. In any event, you can only imagine the problems that could arise from the above situation. Assassin and Necromancer + Paladin and Zealous Cleric of Good = Bad. My friend (the Assassin) and I are currently considering murdering the Cleric while he's sleeping, because he's making things difficult IC and OOC. And the player is already professing doubts about continuing to play him, anyway. It's so hard to get dead bodies to animate when you have a Good Cleric, a Paladin, and a Magic-Hater looking over your shoulder all the time.
Cold Napalm 07-21-04, 01:21 AM	Try keeping animated servants around as a GOOD necromancer with a over zealous cleric, paladin and magic hating barbarian around...now that was interesting... "oh my god, thank you so much for saving me from that creature"
GothicDan 07-21-04, 03:45 PM	That scenario is just wrong in too many ways. :)
Magnus029 07-21-04, 04:33 PM	How bout summoning undead with a Paladin and Cleric of Kelemvor in the group. The Claeric always makes a big deal out of it, we normally ignore the cleric and let the undead do their thing.
GothicDan 07-22-04, 01:10 AM	You must have one push-over for a Cleric... Not to mention a Paladin..
Tempus665 07-22-04, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by Magnus029 How bout summoning undead with a Paladin and Cleric of Kelemvor in the group. The Cleric always makes a big deal out of it, we normally ignore the cleric and let the undead do their thing. I'd say this is good roleplaying on the cleric's behalf. If there's any deity that loathes undead, it's Kelemvor. If I were the cleric, I'd give all of you a big sermon, and if you'd still disrespect me, I'd just leave :b:
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 07-22-04, 02:46 AM	I'd say this is good roleplaying on the cleric's behalf. If there's any deity that loathes undead, it's Kelemvor. If I were the cleric, I'd give all of you a big sermon, and if you'd still disrespect me, I'd just leave /agreed If your party thinks so little of the Cleric than he should just leave. Obviously you have all these crazy undead running around who can fill his role. Sorry... But Clerics get no love!
Urlithani 07-22-04, 04:23 AM	Warlockco: I'm happy for you that you left that group. I wouldn't have stood for that garbage either. As for Finder: 1. The powergamer: Hold up the Player's Handbook and FRCS and say, "These are the only books you may use feats, spells, races and classes from. If it is not presented as a PC race/class you can't use it. Just because Gerti Orlsdottr is in there doesn't mean you can be a frost giant too." If he objects, give him the Dr. Evil treatment! "Zip it!" "Quan chi sho! Subtitle say, 'Zip it!'" "When a problem comes along, you must zip it!" "Ah ah! Zip it." 2. The whiner: Force him to play something else. If he's not happy with that choice, then remind him he wasn't happy with his last 500 xerox copies of characters. 3. The cleric guy: Talk to him alone. I think this guy has problems outside of D&D, or his personality, for some reason or another, is too submissive or apathetic. Try to find out what he really wants to play, and encourage him to play it. 4. Doesn't know rules guy: Play a faster paced game. If he makes attack rolls and can't figure out what AC he hit in 20 seconds, he misses. Move on to the next player. If he gets upset, tell him it's his job to know basic math, since that's part of the game. 5. Doomed guy: Have him play a class that doesn't require him to roll much. A support class like: Rogue: If he can't roll well, he can take 10 or 20 on some of those skills. 5 ranks of tumble, and he can go partial defensive, tumble into combat, and give the fighters flanks. If he can't hit, he can at least give those who can another +2 to end the fight quicker. Spellcaster: There are too many spells to mention that don't require him to roll. Rather, they require his targets to roll(Tasha's hideous laughter, fireball), or they are beneficial to allies and don't need rolls(barkskin, stoneskin, heroism). Crafty illusions also. I can't really think of any really bad players of recent memory. I thank Selūne's stars for that! :D
aravilar_holistacia 07-22-04, 07:39 AM	Originally posted by Board Rider 3. When doing anything, characters that aren't actively involved, listen to whats being said to the other PCs. And act on something you told the others. DM: OK you are told by the sherriff that the local jeweler has been acting funny. Other Players: Were going to head to the jewelers place to...ummm...buy some gems. DM: *Sigh* What the........? I know that you can pass notes and such but that can be time consuming. I've usually pretty strict about roleplaying out the sharing of knowledge in my parties. When I'm DM, if I tell one character something and he or she doesn't tell the rest of the party, there will be Sense Motive checks all around if/when the character with the information starts acting on it. If any players of mine decided to head to a location without actually knowing anything about it, there would probably be hell to pay. Even if it was just up the street, I might make them do a Knowledge (local) check just to see if I can get them lost in the city. :schemes:
Thelandrach 07-22-04, 12:35 PM	I always use the rule that the party shares all information. Very rarely does a situation come up in my campaigns where one or two characters learn something that they wouldn't share with everybody. There is the occasional problem in the middle of combat when somebody who happens to be the only one looking the right way sees something that somebody else wants to know, but life's hard sometimes. Deal. Plus, my campaigns tend to have a lot of players in them, so I can't do too much one-on-one GM'ing. The current party has eight players (two of whom are playing a head each of a two-headed dwarf), three bird familiars and a wizard cohort. I make the other players play familiars and followers, but still. It's pretty crowded out there. Something I brought over from my Champions campaign: whenever possible, if the bad guys have been described as organized-enough for this, there are non-combatants who are watching the fight from hiding. If the players are being abusive with their knowledge, these non-combatants get away and report in, so the next time the PC's run into people from that group, they have foreknowledge of the PC's abilities. If the players are being nice, the noncombatants become combatants and die with their knowledge. So far as I know, none of my players have ever figured this out... they think I keep giving them progressively more and more experience for fighting the same kinds of things just because they're higher level. Uhh, no, guys, the game system works the other way around.
doublesquirrel 07-22-04, 01:09 PM	I had a bad experience with a DM. I was playing my best character (kobold sorceror/dragon disciple). He turned my familiar into a chicken, kept the plot overly linear, had a PC (his best friend) screw up everything we tried to do, made all the girl characters take a "Sex" class skill (sexual harassment). The characters weren't any better. We had a dwarven samurai who refused to accept the fact that he broke the Bushido code. Me: Dude, you ARE a ronin. Him: No I'm not! Why would I be? Me: You blew up your feudal lord's home. Him: So? Me: While he was in it! Him: I didn't want to kill the goblin horde. THAT was fun. Then there was the DM's girlfriend who didn't know what the heck she was doing. DM: You come across an undead gnoll. Her: I take out a holy cross and he melts away! Weee! Me: You can't, you're a druid. Her: Justin (DM)! Tell him I can do it! DM: It's against the rules, but OK. The DM is whipped with a stupid ditz of a chick. Then there's the DM's best friend who does anything the DM tells him too (the DM was pretty much just entertaining himself with the campaign). DM: The elven ranger says, "If you kill me you'll never know where the slaver's are." <DM whisper's to friend> DM's Friend: I take my greatsword and attack her! Me: You ass! DM: Her head is lopped off and rolls on the floor. She has an elven chain on. DM's Friend: I take the chain and put it on. In the end, he ****** off the rest of the group and we all left (except for the afore mentioned). Be careful of bad DM's people.
doublesquirrel 07-22-04, 01:09 PM	I had a bad experience with a DM. I was playing my best character (kobold sorceror/dragon disciple). He turned my familiar into a chicken, kept the plot overly linear, had a PC (his best friend) screw up everything we tried to do, made all the girl characters take a "Sex" class skill (sexual harassment). The characters weren't any better. We had a dwarven samurai who refused to accept the fact that he broke the Bushido code. Me: Dude, you ARE a ronin. Him: No I'm not! Why would I be? Me: You blew up your feudal lord's home. Him: So? Me: While he was in it! Him: I didn't want to kill the goblin horde. THAT was fun. Then there was the DM's girlfriend who didn't know what the heck she was doing. DM: You come across an undead gnoll. Her: I take out a holy cross and he melts away! Weee! Me: You can't, you're a druid. Her: Justin (DM)! Tell him I can do it! DM: It's against the rules, but OK. The DM is whipped by a stupid ditz of a chick. Then there's the DM's best friend who does anything the DM tells him too (the DM was pretty much just entertaining himself with the campaign). DM: The elven ranger says, "If you kill me you'll never know where the slaver's are." <DM whisper's to friend> DM's Friend: I take my greatsword and attack her! Me: You ass! DM: Her head is lopped off and rolls on the floor. She has an elven chain on. DM's Friend: I take the chain and put it on. In the end, he ****** off the rest of the group and we all left (except for the afore mentioned). Be careful of bad DM's people.
GothicDan 07-22-04, 01:29 PM	I'm glad I only have to deal with IC problems and not OOC problems with this. It's good playing with a DM who has played since 1E, because he knows what he's doing.
Magnus029 07-22-04, 02:10 PM	In the game I am currently running we have 6 PC's. The group was recently divide 3 ways. 2 of the PC's were working the investigative side of things (studying the history of the city, tailing a suspect and trying to solve the case.) 3 of the PC's were back at the lodging waiting for the rest of the group to return. And the last PC went and got lodging at a local inn as he was frustrated that things did not go a he had planned. 1 of the 3 at the inn, every time he heres 1 of the 2 investigating has a little excitement he wants to run to the street they are on or go get involved in the chase. In the group of 6 people 2 of them are really into the game. 2 of them are new to the game and still getting used to the basics. 1 of them is a veteran player, easily frustrated and loves to talk about out of game stuff when he is not involved (this has gotten better lately.) The last player..............words do not describe, paint chips, power lines, dropped as a baby, not sure. Friend of both newbs, seems like in some twisted way he has played before though he has no idea of what he is doing he has no concept of the difference between in/out of character knowledge. I spoke with him briefly (do not want to be around him more than I have too, I fell my IQ dropping just being in his presence) this week so hopefully things will be alot different this weekend. Wow...I certainly did not intend to have a post this long...any thought on this let me know, any suggestions, let me know. Board Rider anything to add, feel free.