Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wooly 01-16-04, 01:57 PM	One of my players recently acquired a Human Bane Bastard Sword from a defeated Thayan Noble. His family will soon be dispatching a few formerly human Dread Warriors to retrieve his possessions. The question I have is would the human bane quality of the sword affect the Dread Warriors since they still appear to retain, at least partially, a piece of their soul (accounting for the higher than average intelligence and prowess)? For regular undead I would say absolutely not, but if Dread Warriors due retain some piece of their soul and identity than what else makes a human human?
cwslyclgh 01-16-04, 02:47 PM	no, becasuse a human bane sword is only effective against creatures with a type of Humaniod (human)... while dread warriors have a type of Undead.
Wooly 01-16-04, 02:54 PM	In theory I agree with that interpretation of the game mechanics; yet I believe that I will make it partially effective, granting an extra 1d6 of damage. Likewise I would make all undead bane weapons partially effective as well versus formerly human Dread Warriors.
Wooly Rupert 01-16-04, 04:34 PM	I'd stick with the human bane weapon only affecting humies...
Cunning Linguist 01-16-04, 04:54 PM	I agree with Wolly Rupert and cwslyclgh on this. If we follow your reasoning, it would also effect: Vampires, Liches, Shades, theiflings, aasimars, half elves.. All these have "some" human in them, but none have the Humanoid (human) type. As to what makes a human human? It's creature type.
Lashan 01-16-04, 05:06 PM	If you want a theory on it, you can say that the bane weapon attacks the life force that is part of the human. With the Dread Warrior being undead, it doesn't have any of the human life force left in it. It gets it's energy compeltely from the Negative plane. Sure, it has some intelligence and characteristics from it's previous life, but that doesn't mean that it's soul is still trapped in the shell.
Wooly Rupert 01-16-04, 05:28 PM	Lashan's theory works for me. :)
Yokinobu 01-16-04, 05:32 PM	Originally posted by Wooly Rupert I'd stick with the human bane weapon only affecting humies... Well, I think that humans killed and reanimated as dread warriors should still be called humans, whether or not the sword should effect them. A human doesn't become a new race when you slap the Dread Warrior template on it, it becomes an undead human.
Cunning Linguist 01-16-04, 05:33 PM	How about a flesh golem, made from all human parts?
Lashan 01-16-04, 06:09 PM	The creature sub-type sure would change. While it is not quite a new race, certain attributes are very different on an undead human. For one thing, poisons, illusions, fear, and sneak attacks don't work. Why is this? Because the basic fundamentals as to what makes the "creature" move has changed. No longer does the creature have a heart that pumps blood through it's veins. The undead being gets its energy from the Negative Plane. This creature might have once been human, but it is no longer a basic humanoid type. Now, the undead sub-type of creature takes into account that the beings used to be regular living things, but are now un-dead. They are not living and not dead. They are in a state in-between and many things are different for them.
Wooly 01-17-04, 09:38 AM	I've been waffling back and forth on this for awhile, but the cunning one is right. It would get really messy in the long run if I went the partial route in this case. Compared to skeletons, dread warriors are brilliant, but when compared to vamps and liches they seem a little daft. And since I was basing the whole piece of soul bit on the intelligence and identity retention; I see how that could open up a nasty canof worms. Thanks for the helpful commentary.