I love the Realms... [Archive] - Wizards Community

I love the Realms... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Friendlyfish
01-19-08, 11:02 PM ...Because I hate Eberron. If I wanted to play Three Musketeers+Magitech+1920's pulp fiction I'd- well, I'm not sure what I'd do, because it's stupid and it's not what I think of when I want to play D&D. I hope Eberron chokes on a chicken bone, like that fat aunt nobody likes.

Now, as I see it, WOTC publishes two ready-made settings, because Greyhawk doesn't get any love. And that other option is the Forgotten Realms!

So long as the Forgotten Realms stays Not-Eberron, it'll get my dollar because really, what else are you going to do for a good campaign setting that is just generic enough not to impose its style of flavor on your campaign? Eberron makes my skin crawl.

For that reason alone, I'm here telling the Lore-Nazis with their retcon-whines to read a REAL history of the Realm: that's right, Livy's "Ab Urbe Condita"! Leave the designers to get on with their work: something that's NOT Eberron. Please. Anything. Oh, and I like the Aboleths thing.
Mr_Miscellany
01-20-08, 01:35 AM Well, I like Eberron. So does Miss Miscellany (lots).

But I also want FR to remain as distinct and separate from Eberron as possible.

I don't quite know what I think about what's going on with Aboleths (not sure I understand it, even) but I do know they look good on FR sourcebook covers (ala Underdark).

YMMV

;)
sfdragon
01-20-08, 02:11 AM yeah, i dislike eberron myself, like the Realms , Dragonlance and Greyhawk.
we dont really need to see any of them though screaming the other, wotc will fail at it if they do

so i wonder what part of 4e realms will everybody ignore?
the combined deities myself.
MarkusTay63
01-20-08, 02:12 AM If they force me to use Aboleths, then I'm going to create a Giant Clan that likes to go Noodling. (http://www.cabelas.com/information/cabelas-field-guides/Catfish-Techniques/Noodling-for-Catfish-The-Ultimate-Thrill-in-Fishing.html) :tantrum:
Lord Karsus
01-20-08, 07:40 AM -..And, I like Frosted Mini Wheats.

(Does anybody know what the point of this thread is?)
BadCatMan
01-20-08, 07:54 AM He's trolling.

And he's in the wrong place. Friendlyfish, I suggest you take this to the Eberron boards if you want to troll for Eberronians.

Oh, and please leave FR out of it.
Fabius Maximus
01-20-08, 08:03 AM Now, where's my torch...
Lord Karsus
01-20-08, 08:46 AM -Here's some gasoline I just happened to have...:incog:
Caemun
01-20-08, 11:14 AM I would accuse you all of going off-topic but what's the point.
Lord Karsus
01-20-08, 11:38 AM ...what's the point.

-Exactly.
Friendlyfish
01-20-08, 03:31 PM I guess if you post something not negative about the new Realms on these boards, it's trolling. I just thought I'd trash Eberron for a change. Some of you guys need to get lives. Also: what is the point of constantly vomiting forth hate for the new Realms, anyway? The change is done, finis. You can whine all you want, but look, here it comes anyway!

Sorry for interrupting your whine-and-cheese party, you may return to your regular program. :rolleyes:
Mr_Miscellany
01-20-08, 03:58 PM Sorry for interrupting your whine-and-cheese party, you may return to your regular program. :rolleyes: Friendly, I will say this: I've seen the 'regulars' fight aplenty for their 'right', and the 'rights' of those who agree with them, to freely and openly express themselves re: their disdain for all things 4E, ad nauseam and without limitation or expectation of civility.

However, should someone post equally contradictory or otherwise inflammatory posts in favor of 4E, or of any other opinion in contradiction with what the regulars feel, then those someone(s) are called trolls; their arguments labled “stupid” or “ignorant”.

See the hypocrisy?

I do.

So while I don’t agree with all your positions, Friendly, I can appreciate the painfully obvious dichotomy.
Storm_Silverhand
01-20-08, 04:09 PM I guess if you post something not negative about the new Realms on these boards, it's trolling. I just thought I'd trash Eberron for a change. Some of you guys need to get lives. Also: what is the point of constantly vomiting forth hate for the new Realms, anyway? The change is done, finis. You can whine all you want, but look, here it comes anyway!

Sorry for interrupting your whine-and-cheese party, you may return to your regular program. :rolleyes:

No. If you post something like this:

For that reason alone, I'm here telling the Lore-Nazis with their retcon-whines to read a REAL history of the Realm: that's right, Livy's "Ab Urbe Condita"! Leave the designers to get on with their work: something that's NOT Eberron. Please. Anything. Oh, and I like the Aboleths thing.

You're going to get people's backs up right away. You've just told us to shut up and go do something else - in this case, go read about the history of Rome.

You called us Nazis (invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)) and whiners, and you expect a civil response? :rolleyes:
Mr_Miscellany
01-20-08, 04:21 PM You called us Nazis (invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)) and whiners, and you expect a civil response? :rolleyes: That depends.

Godwin's law doesn't say such usage is always wrong, only that over-usage depletes the usefulness of comparison with the term when such is entirely appropriate.

There are days when I've seen the legions of lore 'people' on these forums run roughshod over anyone who dared speak up with questions or complaints about any such thing on the Realms.

How (to use LK's example) Waterdeep keeps itself fed would be one such event on these forums. A poster brings a valid point up about Waterdeep, instantly catches some static from the regulars and the lore people from CK, retorts as though he's being attacked (and he was), then the regulars jump down his throat for having the nerve to 'disrespect' the authors of the books the OP had a problem with.

All when they could have cited their sources (being the more knowledgeable, this is what you'd expect, I should think) and simply agreed to disagree if the OP found that information insufficient (which happens often for many a DM).

But that's not what happened.

When someone invokes Godwin's Law, maybe it's time for some people around here to open their eyes and take notice, eh?

:P
Storm_Silverhand
01-20-08, 04:38 PM Heya,

That depends.

Godwin's law doesn't say such usage is always wrong, only that over-usage depletes the usefulness of comparison with the term when such is entirely appropriate.

But it is a common tactic of a troll to invoke the Nazis, particularly by labeling other posters as such. Just go back and read his initial post - it's complete flame bait... Not just for Realms lore people, but anyone who likes Eberron too.

There are days when I've seen the legions of lore 'people' on these forums run roughshod over anyone who dared speak up with questions or complaints about any such thing on the Realms.

How (to use LK's example) Waterdeep keeps itself fed would be one such event on these forums. A poster brings a valid point up about Waterdeep, instantly catches some static from the regulars and the lore people from CK, retorts as though he's being attacked (and he was), then the regulars jump down his throat for having the nerve to 'disrespect' the authors of the books the OP had a problem with.
<snip>

Well I don't actually recall the incident you're talking about, but I don't think you can make a comparison. Friendlyfish starts out by attacking posters, and I'm sure he really doesn't need you defending him for it - really, if he wants to raise a valid point, then he needs to start out less aggressively, and he needs to actually have a point. Friendlyfish was fishing (excuse the pun) for a reaction, and when he got it... he complained! :rolleyes:

When someone invokes Godwin's Law, maybe it's time for some people around here to open their eyes and take notice, eh?

:P

You really think that's going to happen? Friendlyfish has already put nearly everyone off side with his initial post (except you, obviously) - he attacked us, we responded, and then you defended him. I don't understand why, to be frank - his initial post had no point, and was obnoxious to boot.
Friendlyfish
01-20-08, 05:27 PM If I wish to adopt a provocative tone, that's my right. I'm not going to be mealy-mouthed and bow and scrape to forum regulars. In fact, my point was simply that I love the Realms because they're the alternative to Eberron, which I do -not- like. The point was right there; I think it was pretty obvious.

So why would I post such a thing, you may ask?

I was trying to put out a little sunshine into this dank and gloomy forum. Also, I was trying to be a little funny (Oh, sorry!). Apparently humor isn't much appreciated in the dusty halls of the FR forums. Oh no, we're way too busy bemoaning the wasted hours tracking lore which is, now utterly inevitably, going to become irrelevant and outdated.

Again, sorry if my post wasn't your style, but it doesn't make me a troll. As for invoking Godwin's Law and all that tripe, well, you can stuff it. If you can't get my point, which was fairly literally obvious, well, there's not much I can do for ya.
GreenKnight
01-20-08, 05:49 PM If I wish to adopt a provocative tone, that's my right.

Freedom of Speech doesn't mean you can post whatever you like on privately owned forums. You have no more right to come here and troll then you would to barge into someones house and protest something or other.
Gunnersmate
01-20-08, 06:29 PM That is exactly what freedom of speech means. It means he is free to state his opinion in the manner he see fit. If you take offense to his tone thats your problem, reserve the right not to read his posts.
I have been reading the boards the last couple of days and all anyone does is whine about the changes that are being made. Things are going to change that is the way of it. I love the Realms and I will continue to buy the things I like and not buy the things I don't. Why do people try so hard to be purists anyway? It's fantasy make it what you want that is the spirit of D&D. It's like people who disect books and movies to find mistakes or disparaties, enjoy it for what it is.
GreenKnight
01-20-08, 06:33 PM That is exactly what freedom of speech means. It means he is free to state his opinion in the manner he see fit.

That's correct. But what ISN'T correct is the idea that you can state your opinion WHEREVER you like. He can put up his own website/blog and say what he likes. He can stand on a street corner and wave a sign. But if someone wants to prevent him or anyone else from committing activities on their private property that they don't approve of, then that's THEIR right. This website doesn't belong to him. It belongs to WotC, and they set the rules as to what can or can't be posted here. And if he's breaking the rules, then they have the right to shut him down. Just as I have the right to shoot someone in the face with a shotgun if they decide my living room would be a good place to protest property taxes or whatever other bugaboo they're on about.
Scathlock
01-20-08, 06:43 PM I think Storms point is a valid one.

Fish, it's not bowing before the mighty sages to use a civil tone in your messages. One can disagree without becoming offensive.

Also, I find the analogy rather unoriginal. Why can't it be Lore-Stalinists for a change? Or Lore-Conquistadors? Lore-Sithlords? Lore-Zhents? Or something? Always Nazis. It really gets old. Especially when one doesn't like trivialization concerning Nazis (though this would apply to Stalinists too). To use them in this context does this IMHO.
WizO_Autumn
01-20-08, 06:51 PM This thread is a recipe for baiting and spam. I'm closing it to dissuade further CoC violations.

I've also brought it to the attention of CM to determine if it should be permanently closed, re-opened, and/or a new thread or threads created in it's place.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Friendlyfish 01-19-08, 11:02 PM	...Because I hate Eberron. If I wanted to play Three Musketeers+Magitech+1920's pulp fiction I'd- well, I'm not sure what I'd do, because it's stupid and it's not what I think of when I want to play D&D. I hope Eberron chokes on a chicken bone, like that fat aunt nobody likes. Now, as I see it, WOTC publishes two ready-made settings, because Greyhawk doesn't get any love. And that other option is the Forgotten Realms! So long as the Forgotten Realms stays Not-Eberron, it'll get my dollar because really, what else are you going to do for a good campaign setting that is just generic enough not to impose its style of flavor on your campaign? Eberron makes my skin crawl. For that reason alone, I'm here telling the Lore-Nazis with their retcon-whines to read a REAL history of the Realm: that's right, Livy's "Ab Urbe Condita"! Leave the designers to get on with their work: something that's NOT Eberron. Please. Anything. Oh, and I like the Aboleths thing.
Mr_Miscellany 01-20-08, 01:35 AM	Well, I like Eberron. So does Miss Miscellany (lots). But I also want FR to remain as distinct and separate from Eberron as possible. I don't quite know what I think about what's going on with Aboleths (not sure I understand it, even) but I do know they look good on FR sourcebook covers (ala Underdark). YMMV ;)
sfdragon 01-20-08, 02:11 AM	yeah, i dislike eberron myself, like the Realms , Dragonlance and Greyhawk. we dont really need to see any of them though screaming the other, wotc will fail at it if they do so i wonder what part of 4e realms will everybody ignore? the combined deities myself.
MarkusTay63 01-20-08, 02:12 AM	If they force me to use Aboleths, then I'm going to create a Giant Clan that likes to go Noodling. (http://www.cabelas.com/information/cabelas-field-guides/Catfish-Techniques/Noodling-for-Catfish-The-Ultimate-Thrill-in-Fishing.html) :tantrum:
Lord Karsus 01-20-08, 07:40 AM	-..And, I like Frosted Mini Wheats. (Does anybody know what the point of this thread is?)
BadCatMan 01-20-08, 07:54 AM	He's trolling. And he's in the wrong place. Friendlyfish, I suggest you take this to the Eberron boards if you want to troll for Eberronians. Oh, and please leave FR out of it.
Fabius Maximus 01-20-08, 08:03 AM	Now, where's my torch...
Lord Karsus 01-20-08, 08:46 AM	-Here's some gasoline I just happened to have...:incog:
Caemun 01-20-08, 11:14 AM	I would accuse you all of going off-topic but what's the point.
Lord Karsus 01-20-08, 11:38 AM	...what's the point. -Exactly.
Friendlyfish 01-20-08, 03:31 PM	I guess if you post something not negative about the new Realms on these boards, it's trolling. I just thought I'd trash Eberron for a change. Some of you guys need to get lives. Also: what is the point of constantly vomiting forth hate for the new Realms, anyway? The change is done, finis. You can whine all you want, but look, here it comes anyway! Sorry for interrupting your whine-and-cheese party, you may return to your regular program. :rolleyes:
Mr_Miscellany 01-20-08, 03:58 PM	Sorry for interrupting your whine-and-cheese party, you may return to your regular program. :rolleyes: Friendly, I will say this: I've seen the 'regulars' fight aplenty for their 'right', and the 'rights' of those who agree with them, to freely and openly express themselves re: their disdain for all things 4E, ad nauseam and without limitation or expectation of civility. However, should someone post equally contradictory or otherwise inflammatory posts in favor of 4E, or of any other opinion in contradiction with what the regulars feel, then those someone(s) are called trolls; their arguments labled “stupid” or “ignorant”. See the hypocrisy? I do. So while I don’t agree with all your positions, Friendly, I can appreciate the painfully obvious dichotomy.
Storm_Silverhand 01-20-08, 04:09 PM	I guess if you post something not negative about the new Realms on these boards, it's trolling. I just thought I'd trash Eberron for a change. Some of you guys need to get lives. Also: what is the point of constantly vomiting forth hate for the new Realms, anyway? The change is done, finis. You can whine all you want, but look, here it comes anyway! Sorry for interrupting your whine-and-cheese party, you may return to your regular program. :rolleyes: No. If you post something like this: For that reason alone, I'm here telling the Lore-Nazis with their retcon-whines to read a REAL history of the Realm: that's right, Livy's "Ab Urbe Condita"! Leave the designers to get on with their work: something that's NOT Eberron. Please. Anything. Oh, and I like the Aboleths thing. You're going to get people's backs up right away. You've just told us to shut up and go do something else - in this case, go read about the history of Rome. You called us Nazis (invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)) and whiners, and you expect a civil response? :rolleyes:
Mr_Miscellany 01-20-08, 04:21 PM	You called us Nazis (invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)) and whiners, and you expect a civil response? :rolleyes: That depends. Godwin's law doesn't say such usage is always wrong, only that over-usage depletes the usefulness of comparison with the term when such is entirely appropriate. There are days when I've seen the legions of lore 'people' on these forums run roughshod over anyone who dared speak up with questions or complaints about any such thing on the Realms. How (to use LK's example) Waterdeep keeps itself fed would be one such event on these forums. A poster brings a valid point up about Waterdeep, instantly catches some static from the regulars and the lore people from CK, retorts as though he's being attacked (and he was), then the regulars jump down his throat for having the nerve to 'disrespect' the authors of the books the OP had a problem with. All when they could have cited their sources (being the more knowledgeable, this is what you'd expect, I should think) and simply agreed to disagree if the OP found that information insufficient (which happens often for many a DM). But that's not what happened. When someone invokes Godwin's Law, maybe it's time for some people around here to open their eyes and take notice, eh? :P
Storm_Silverhand 01-20-08, 04:38 PM	Heya, That depends. Godwin's law doesn't say such usage is always wrong, only that over-usage depletes the usefulness of comparison with the term when such is entirely appropriate. But it is a common tactic of a troll to invoke the Nazis, particularly by labeling other posters as such. Just go back and read his initial post - it's complete flame bait... Not just for Realms lore people, but anyone who likes Eberron too. There are days when I've seen the legions of lore 'people' on these forums run roughshod over anyone who dared speak up with questions or complaints about any such thing on the Realms. How (to use LK's example) Waterdeep keeps itself fed would be one such event on these forums. A poster brings a valid point up about Waterdeep, instantly catches some static from the regulars and the lore people from CK, retorts as though he's being attacked (and he was), then the regulars jump down his throat for having the nerve to 'disrespect' the authors of the books the OP had a problem with. <snip> Well I don't actually recall the incident you're talking about, but I don't think you can make a comparison. Friendlyfish starts out by attacking posters, and I'm sure he really doesn't need you defending him for it - really, if he wants to raise a valid point, then he needs to start out less aggressively, and he needs to actually have a point. Friendlyfish was fishing (excuse the pun) for a reaction, and when he got it... he complained! :rolleyes: When someone invokes Godwin's Law, maybe it's time for some people around here to open their eyes and take notice, eh? :P You really think that's going to happen? Friendlyfish has already put nearly everyone off side with his initial post (except you, obviously) - he attacked us, we responded, and then you defended him. I don't understand why, to be frank - his initial post had no point, and was obnoxious to boot.
Friendlyfish 01-20-08, 05:27 PM	If I wish to adopt a provocative tone, that's my right. I'm not going to be mealy-mouthed and bow and scrape to forum regulars. In fact, my point was simply that I love the Realms because they're the alternative to Eberron, which I do -not- like. The point was right there; I think it was pretty obvious. So why would I post such a thing, you may ask? I was trying to put out a little sunshine into this dank and gloomy forum. Also, I was trying to be a little funny (Oh, sorry!). Apparently humor isn't much appreciated in the dusty halls of the FR forums. Oh no, we're way too busy bemoaning the wasted hours tracking lore which is, now utterly inevitably, going to become irrelevant and outdated. Again, sorry if my post wasn't your style, but it doesn't make me a troll. As for invoking Godwin's Law and all that tripe, well, you can stuff it. If you can't get my point, which was fairly literally obvious, well, there's not much I can do for ya.
GreenKnight 01-20-08, 05:49 PM	If I wish to adopt a provocative tone, that's my right. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean you can post whatever you like on privately owned forums. You have no more right to come here and troll then you would to barge into someones house and protest something or other.
Gunnersmate 01-20-08, 06:29 PM	That is exactly what freedom of speech means. It means he is free to state his opinion in the manner he see fit. If you take offense to his tone thats your problem, reserve the right not to read his posts. I have been reading the boards the last couple of days and all anyone does is whine about the changes that are being made. Things are going to change that is the way of it. I love the Realms and I will continue to buy the things I like and not buy the things I don't. Why do people try so hard to be purists anyway? It's fantasy make it what you want that is the spirit of D&D. It's like people who disect books and movies to find mistakes or disparaties, enjoy it for what it is.
GreenKnight 01-20-08, 06:33 PM	That is exactly what freedom of speech means. It means he is free to state his opinion in the manner he see fit. That's correct. But what ISN'T correct is the idea that you can state your opinion WHEREVER you like. He can put up his own website/blog and say what he likes. He can stand on a street corner and wave a sign. But if someone wants to prevent him or anyone else from committing activities on their private property that they don't approve of, then that's THEIR right. This website doesn't belong to him. It belongs to WotC, and they set the rules as to what can or can't be posted here. And if he's breaking the rules, then they have the right to shut him down. Just as I have the right to shoot someone in the face with a shotgun if they decide my living room would be a good place to protest property taxes or whatever other bugaboo they're on about.
Scathlock 01-20-08, 06:43 PM	I think Storms point is a valid one. Fish, it's not bowing before the mighty sages to use a civil tone in your messages. One can disagree without becoming offensive. Also, I find the analogy rather unoriginal. Why can't it be Lore-Stalinists for a change? Or Lore-Conquistadors? Lore-Sithlords? Lore-Zhents? Or something? Always Nazis. It really gets old. Especially when one doesn't like trivialization concerning Nazis (though this would apply to Stalinists too). To use them in this context does this IMHO.
WizO_Autumn 01-20-08, 06:51 PM	This thread is a recipe for baiting and spam. I'm closing it to dissuade further CoC violations. I've also brought it to the attention of CM to determine if it should be permanently closed, re-opened, and/or a new thread or threads created in it's place.