Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sleeplessghost 01-27-08, 09:08 PM	Let me start off by saying that I know how well liked psionics are in general. I was just wondering how common Psionic characters are in the FRCS. I would imagine less common than spellcasters, but I don't have any proof of this. So... How does psionics work in your campaign? How do you integrate the new races and classes? What percentage of the population is psionic? Just wondering what other people have done with their campaign...
Old Sage 01-27-08, 09:49 PM	Psionics, or the Invisible Art [which is the term for psionics in the Realms--though it was noticeably absent from Player's Guide to Faerūn], has been in FR since 1e, it has just never been all that prominent in previous editions of the setting. Its apparent lack during 2e FR was mostly noted due to the fact that TSR didn't want two different worlds with a lot of psionics [the published Dark Sun setting was the main TSR setting for psionics], so psionics in the FR were put "on the backburner" so to speak. One example, in the Ol' Grey Box, mentions that Illistyl Elventree has some degree of psionic power. In 2e, psionics has a few notable practitioners, one of them House Obladra -- is covered in both FR fiction as well as the 2e Menzoberranzan boxed set. Every other example of psionic characters in the Realms during 1e/2e can be gleaned from Kuje's FR NPC file -- some of which have developed mostly as wild talents. And take a look through Ed's compiled replies from Candlekeep for his take on psionics in the Realms.
Old Sage 01-27-08, 09:50 PM	Additionally, there aren't many famous human/demihuman psions/psionicists in the Realms because:- -- the Invisible Art occurs among humans and demihumans mostly as minor wild talents; those are rare, and few of those people develop them strongly -- it isn't generally known to be anything distinct from magic -- mass fame as we know it doesn't exist in the Realms anyway
Mula 01-27-08, 11:33 PM	-- mass fame as we know it doesn't exist in the Realms anyway Elminster? Blackstaff? Fzoul? Halaster?
Lord Karsus 01-27-08, 11:50 PM	-The Kaliesh'Erai is an group of Elven Psions located in Evereska.
Old Sage 01-28-08, 01:08 AM	Elminster? Blackstaff? Fzoul? Halaster?And just how many average Realms folk do you think actually know anything about these individuals... beyond maybe just the odd name uttered here and there on occasion? Don't assume the *celebrity status* of the Chosen, as depicted in Troy Denning's "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy, to be the norm. Those novels are not a good example of anything. The author may have had a character [Galaeron] act like the Chosen were celebrities, but he also had many established characters that acted like utter morons. We know from established Realmslore what these characters are like -- Denning's depiction of them did not draw from established Realmslore.
Strife026 01-28-08, 04:13 AM	The House of Serpents trilogy has a lot focus with psionics as well
Another Gnome 01-28-08, 06:14 AM	Mula Elminster? Blackstaff? Fzoul? Halaster? And just how many average Realms folk do you think actually know anything about these individuals... beyond maybe just the odd name uttered here and there on occasion? Not to mention that even if someone has heard of Elminster, it goes like this: Psion: "I'm a psion." Farmer: "What's that?" Psion: "Someone with mystical powers of the mind." Farmer: "Like a mage?" Psion: "No, it's different. Mages tap into the arcane, psions bend reality itself with their thoughts." Farmer: "Like mages." Psion: "No, not like mages! See, I'll turn that sheep into a rock, just like... that. Behold! A rock!" Farmer: "I saw Elminster do that the other day. He's a mage." Psion: "Elmister has psionic powers too! He can read thoughts!" Farmer: "Like mages." Psion: "I can prove it with my ability to sense psionic emanations!" Farmer: "Like magic." Psion: "Fine! We're just like mages! Are you happy now?!" Farmer: "I want my sheep back."
Lord Karsus 01-28-08, 09:56 AM	Psion: "I'm a psion." Farmer: "What's that?" Psion: "Someone with mystical powers of the mind." Farmer: "Like a mage?" Psion: "No, it's different. Mages tap into the arcane, psions bend reality itself with their thoughts." Farmer: "Like mages." Psion: "No, not like mages! See, I'll turn that sheep into a rock, just like... that. Behold! A rock!" Farmer: "I saw Elminster do that the other day. He's a mage." Psion: "Elmister has psionic powers too! He can read thoughts!" Farmer: "Like mages." Psion: "I can prove it with my ability to sense psionic emanations!" Farmer: "Like magic." Psion: "Fine! We're just like mages! Are you happy now?!" Farmer: "I want my sheep back." -Yeah, that's about it.
gomeztoo 01-28-08, 10:51 AM	Farmer: "I want my sheep back." I nominate this for quote of the day. ;)
Khaelieth 01-28-08, 12:34 PM	Duergar, they've got some lads. There some stuff in PGtF.
Lord Karsus 01-28-08, 01:45 PM	Duergar, they've got some lads. -Derro, too.
DMD 01-28-08, 05:34 PM	I treat Psionics as distinct from Arcane and Divine Magic. I have it as a rare art but growing as one of my PC's played during the Time of Troubles and spread it far and wide picking up adepts who wanted an alternative to magic based upon the unstableness and chaos magic caused during the Godswar. Still there are very few monastaries for it around Faerun.
mustafathered 01-28-08, 07:36 PM	Hmmm... maybe there should be some Kir-lanin psions if only just to tell Mystra and Shar that they really don't care.
Thinblade 01-28-08, 10:39 PM	For the second part of your question, I have psionicists be really rare in my Realms. I also play 2e, with all of the brokeny-goodness of 2e psionics. With only one exception, I've never allowed more than one psionicist in my parties at any time. They don't owe their power to any god or the Weave, or anything, which in some cases leads them to arrogance. I don't have any of the 3e psionic classes/PrC's, partially because I don't run that edition, and partly because it makes no sense in game. There are too few psionicists, and they spend most of their time re-inventing the wheel because most of them are self-taught. Oh, and Jhaamdath is and has always been a mage-ocracy IMC. That was a stupid retcon.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-29-08, 07:59 PM	The protagonist and antagonist of the House of Serpents trilogy were psionists. Those were great books by the way.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-29-08, 08:01 PM	And just how many average Realms folk do you think actually know anything about these individuals... beyond maybe just the odd name uttered here and there on occasion? Don't assume the *celebrity status* of the Chosen, as depicted in Troy Denning's "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy, to be the norm. Those novels are not a good example of anything. The author may have had a character [Galaeron] act like the Chosen were celebrities, but he also had many established characters that acted like utter morons. We know from established Realmslore what these characters are like -- Denning's depiction of them did not draw from established Realmslore. Indeed--player knowledge does not equal character knowledge.:)
The_Shaman 01-31-08, 06:32 AM	Let me start off by saying that I know how well liked psionics are in general. I was just wondering how common Psionic characters are in the FRCS. I would imagine less common than spellcasters, but I don't have any proof of this. So... How does psionics work in your campaign? How do you integrate the new races and classes? What percentage of the population is psionic? Just wondering what other people have done with their campaign... We just assume psionic-magic transparency and so far no one has microcosmed the world, so I guess it could be worse. Seriously, though, psionics may be relatively rare in the Realms, but it's been there for a while. Here's what the class chronicles web article, which is imo the standard source for non-PHB material in the Realms, says on the topic: in most lands, fewer than 1 person in 10,000 has even minor psionic abilities (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627). The duergar, as well as several monstrous races (the yuan-ti and the illithid being the most well-known) are fairly established in Realms lore. The ghostwise halflings are also currently assumed to have minor psionic talents, but not to the degree of a fully psionic race. For an imo fairly decent treatise on how to treat/insert psionic races in the Realms in 3.5, I would recommend the Class Chronicles sections below: Duergar, Elans and Blues (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070620) - note: I'm rather sceptic on description of the blues, myself. Goblins and orcs are among the most commonly known "monster" races. If not 5, but even 2% of the large goblin population was psionic, they and not the yuan-ti would be the first thing people imagine when someone mentions the Invisible Art. Ghostwise halflings, Githyanki, Mind Flayers, Yuan-ti and others (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627) Psionics across the land (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070703) Psionic Classes (knowledge of the PGtF section on psionics is a plus) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070711) , also has some info on religions which psionic characters might associate with.
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 06:44 AM	My only problem with Psionics is that they become so damn redundant with Sorcerers. Really, if you have Psionics why Sorcerers and Vice versa?
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:57 PM	Really, if you have Psionics why Sorcerers and Vice versa? -Homerule that Psionics is not reated to magic, and have it function in Wild Magic Zones, Dead Magic Zones, haves mages unable to counter it with Arcane/Divine magic...
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 10:23 PM	My basic take on psionics is that it's a form of monastic discipline in the Realms and somewhat akin to the martial arts practiced in Shou-Long. So in my Realms, it's far more common to find Psionicists in the Realms of Kara-Tur than it is for you to find them in the Forgotten Realms. Psionics is really just a really enhanced form of manipulating Ki and internal energies. Another source for psionics in the Forgotten Realms is the inhuman experiments of the Illithids whom are obsessed with unlocking the secrets of the mind for their own use. Plenty of Duergar, Drow, Monsters, and more than a few escaped goblins or humans have found themselves blessed/cursed with psionic abilities that have been unlocked by the power of the Mind Flayers. Quite a lot of these also form bloodlines that spread the nature of psionics throughout the Realms. The most famous of these was Auppenser who actively altered his worshipers with his magic in order to transform them into psionicists. The Jhaamdathan Psionocracy that he fostered has long since fallen to ash but many Realms citizens unknowingly carry the blood of that period inside their veins. Overall, Psionicists in the Realms aren't nearly as numerous or organized as magicians. This id despite the fact the people of the Realms just, erroneously, consider it a different type of magic. Part of this has to do with the LE members of the Church of Mystra and their less than charitable LN members. Because Psionics shouldn't be linked to the Weave, the Church of Mystra never really accepted Psionicist worshipers of the faith and actively opposed them using their powers to form their own brotherhoods and societies. Several magic using secret societies and monastaries exist in the Realms but it lacks a patron due to Auppenser's sleep. In my campaign, Selune is likely to pick them up in the immediate aftermath of the Spell Plague as a way to help confront the power of the event with a force that's untouched by it in order to mitigate the damage done by Shar. This immediately causes her to become viewed as the Patron Goddess of Psionics that may soon take the portfolio from sleeping Auppenser. In the aftermath and devastation, Psionics also gains a moderate boost and acts much more openly. Ironically, it fails to overtake magic mostly because people angry at sorcery tend to take a dim view of psionics as well.
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 11:56 PM	In 1e, Elminster had psionics in his canon write-up, and this was even reflected in the novel Elminster: The Making of a Mage (it was a tiny thing, but it was alluded to). There used to be a powerful Psionic House in Menzoberranzan (Oblodra), but it is destroyed now (the only surviving member is now a member of Bregen D'aerthe). It appears that several Drow cities have Psionic Houses, so the Dark Elves have not been as 'quiet' about it as the surface-types are. Also, there was a psionic god (Auppenser), who was worshipped in the Psionocracy of Jaamdath. I think with the fall of Jaamdath, and the subsequent fall of that god, psionics fell by the wayside in FR for hundreds of years. With the Spellplague, I'm sure the Invisible Art will once again become prominent.
The_Mess 02-01-08, 12:35 AM	Unfortunately, I doubt the spellplague will make psionics prominent for one simple reason: FR 4e campaign guide comes out this year. Psionics 4e doesn't come out until next year. So, we can again safely assume that all of the important FR NPCs will be non-psionic and it will include no psionic information beyond a sidebox. But, then, I like playing odd-man-out characters, so the longer they ignore psionics, the happier I am! Really! I am not saying this through clenched-in-frustration teeth! Our (That is, in the game I'm in with Charlie) 4E realms are taking a few different paths. We took spellplague a bit more litereally, it's an affliction that causes spellcasters to go mad. (Including two of my old characters!) There will be, shortly, a group of psionicists attempting to claim the Realms for the New Age of the Mind, blaming magic for everything that's gone wrong. Elan should end up being Illithid experiments in creating tougher (and tastier!) slaves that have escaped (is there anything that *hasn't* escaped the illithids?) as will the Maenads. I don't have much in mind for the Xeph, but I would love to introduce my version of the Dromites at some point, but I don't have a good plot (and I don't want to bore everyone else with my obsession with psionics).
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 12:41 AM	Buuuuuut... The designers obviously no longer care about established lore, so they would have NO problem dumping an FR psionic book on us right after the other comes out, chock full of all sorts of psionic races, classes, and regions. Lest not forget 4e FR is getting entire new regions (from another world!), so having at least one of these be a psionic Kingdom would make sense. Also, the new continent replacing Maztica is ripe for this sort of treatment, ala Eberron's Sarlona. ;) Expect a sourcebook sometime late next year.....
Charles Phipps 02-01-08, 12:46 AM	Yes, but it's also equally likely that it'll be ABBERATIONS AND SALAMANDERS! NOTHING BUT ABBERATIONS AND SALAMANDERS! That's the future of Eberr-Toril! :) and don't tell Michael about the Psionics in Eberron! I barely got him to play in the Realms as it is, I'll have to import some Kalashtar if he finds out about how prominent they are there! Charles: Hey, Michael, how about we ditch Psionics for Sorcerers in 3E. Michael (The Mess): GAH!
The_Mess 02-01-08, 12:56 AM	Eberron? That campaign setting you swore was all about 1950's America with bard as the only available player character? Did they do a psionics expansion for it?
Old Sage 02-01-08, 01:28 AM	In 1e, Elminster had psionics in his canon write-up, and this was even reflected in the novel Elminster: The Making of a Mage (it was a tiny thing, but it was alluded to).It's right at the beginning, with Elminster as a young child. The magelord charms him and orders him to run off a cliff. He heals himself using psionics as he lies, badly wounded in a ravine.
Kynesis 02-01-08, 06:32 AM	Psionic powers earned a bad rep on several fronts: In 1st ed they were basically tacked on & every power gamer *cough*everycharacterinEd'sgames*cough* acquired a selection of them. The rules bounding them and defining them never really set them apart from magic properly nor dealt well with integrating them into a magical world. Last but not least - DarkSun. My personal favorite setting by far but the entire setting didn't just go out on a limb, it took a running leap which the majority of players just couldn't follow. Psionics are a great tool - in the right hands. If you're a worldbuilder / DM thinking of tinkering with Psionics I'd advise you to keep a tight reign on them until you know how you want them handled and most importantly, that you understand them well enough to withstand scrutiny and criticizm - just as you adjudicate magical / mystical / divine effects. If your players aren't prepared to accept Psionics, just don't use them. If they only want to play them to see how far they can stretch the rules.... well you'll have the same issues as you'd face with the introduction of classes like Warlocks or halfbreed dragons / demons. Generally the Forgotten Realms campaign setting is considered 'high magic' - it contains alot of magic and alot of powerful magic, stacking yet more (by way of adding what is essentially another caster class) may just be over-doing things. Psionic powers get a nod from time to time, as MarkusTay63 points out - House Oblodra in Menzoberranzan were skilled psions. They didn't last long though, they were misfits in every way - right down to their political views and goals. It's well worth reviewing the links noted by The_Shaman - most particularly Psionic - magical transparency. Generally Psions hold a similar place in FR society to Monks and imho would most commonly (as far as they go) move in the same circles as Monks. In the FR setting i'd be hard pressed to let a Psion multiclass with a Wizard, Sorcerer or Priest; I'd even have misgivings about letting one multiclass with a Rogue or Paladin. Psionic based treasure isn't included amongst the standard treasure tables. I've seen some horrid attempts at psionic treasure from ill informed DM's. Introduce it in a small area, make it distinctive - refugee Elan for example might work. Another option is to tweak one of the more mystical religions to directly support Psions. Whatever you decide - if you're going to do it, test the waters, talk to your players and make sure you go in fully prepared.
Old Sage 02-01-08, 08:15 AM	In 1st ed they were basically tacked on & every power gamer *cough*everycharacterinEd'sgames*cough* acquired a selection of them.That is incorrect. Ed does use psionics, but sparingly. Usually in the form of some characters having 'wild talents' [minor personal powers].
GoldDragon 02-01-08, 05:47 PM	Let me start off by saying that I know how well liked psionics are in general. I was just wondering how common Psionic characters are in the FRCS. I would imagine less common than spellcasters, but I don't have any proof of this. So... How does psionics work in your campaign? How do you integrate the new races and classes? What percentage of the population is psionic? Just wondering what other people have done with their campaign... Kosher? True Psionics (2nd Eddition Psionics) Existed along side Mentalist Wizards (3rd addition Psionics) in the Native Torillians until the Death of Mystra and her Merging with the land caused not only Magic to cease working but Psionics of both kinds as well in Native Torillians 3rd eddition PSionics, the Magic based one that is closer to being a Specialist Sorcerer that makes magical effects of mental persuasion, made a come back in Toriilians and was allowed for PCs in 3rd eddition FRCS but True Psionics are reserved for NPC Monsters like the Gith and Mind Flayers. Eliminster used to be listed having 266psi with all mental attacks and defenses possible (adding to his "Munchkinism") but he was (and now possibly still is) a Mentalist (3rd eddition) rather then a True Psionist (2nd edd) as he is "native" I recall someone named "St. Cutbert" in the resources I have but not sure if he is a Forgotten Realms figure but the notes attached was he was a 2nd eddition Psionist. And on the final note it is mentioned in the Resources that the percentages can't really be known cause magic is more common and a Mentalist (3rd eddition PSionist) is likely to be disregarded as a Specialist Sorcerer or Specialist Wizard (Enchanter/Mentalist) by the lay folk of Toril.
The Ubbergeek 02-01-08, 05:52 PM	There is already psionic gods, including one Faerunian - Auppenser. AND BTW... Both editions are true psionics - just two systems. *shrugs*
The_Mess 02-01-08, 09:05 PM	Dead/sleeping gods hardly count. Psionics needs an active god! You'd think that, as much as the gods argue over portfolios, any unused one would get snapped up pretty quickly. Having been unaware, at the time, of Auppensar, I had nominated Red Knight as the goddess of psionics for our Faerunian campaign, feeling that her domain of strategy was close enough to mental power to qualify, but Charlie ran with giving it to Selune, which has worked remarkably well. Auppensar can beg for it back when he wakes up.
Old Sage 02-01-08, 11:48 PM	There have been signs that point to an imminent resurgence of faith in Auppenser within the Realms. Mystra appreciated that Auppenser's death would have had a dramatic impact on the Invisible Art on Toril. Thus, she ensured that he was sent into a long regenerative slumber [from which he is only now beginning to wake] rather than fade completely. That move saved psionics from being permanently affected by Auppenser's absense. It should also be noted that some worshippers of Auppensur still exist. And while they're clearly not enough to fully restore Auppenser to a state of power similar to what he enjoyed before the fall of Jhaamdath... they are enough, along with Mystra's decision, to ensure he retains some measure of godly awareness.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:35 AM	-Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't want a deity of Psionics. Nor do I want it to have any kind of transparency with magic. I just think both cheapen the uniqueness of Psionics.
Charles Phipps 02-02-08, 01:37 AM	-Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't want a deity of Psionics. Nor do I want it to have any kind of transparency with magic. I just think both cheapen the uniqueness of Psionics. I'd like a deity of psionics to give it some purpose in the Realms. If you gave Gargauth the Psionic portfolio you'd have him trying to corrupt everyone's minds on the planet.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:41 AM	I'd like a deity of psionics to give it some purpose in the Realms. -See, that's the thing. I don't see Psionics as having a purpose in the Realms, in my opinion anyway. It's like a mutation (one possible explanation). It comes with no real rhyme or reason.
Charles Phipps 02-02-08, 01:45 AM	-See, that's the thing. I don't see Psionics as having a purpose in the Realms, in my opinion anyway. It's like a mutation (one possible explanation). It comes with no real rhyme or reason. That didn't stop the X-men from getting one.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:46 AM	That didn't stop the X-men from getting one. -The X-Men have a deity in the Realms?
Charles Phipps 02-02-08, 01:50 AM	Errr duh, Here's an image of Auppenser. http://www.marvelvc.com.br/X-Men/ProfessorX.jpg
The_Mess 02-02-08, 01:53 AM	-Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't want a deity of Psionics. As I see it, pretty much any concept ought to have a diety. Whether any of the people related to the concept care for said diety is another matter entirely. I'd see a diety of psionics being one who supports self-suffiency in his/her followers. Worshipping such a diety misses the point. Nor do I want it to have any kind of transparency with magic. I just think both cheapen the uniqueness of Psionics. I agree in my heart, but I can't imagine it working in practice. I tend to make them "transparent with a -2 penalty".
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:53 AM	-Professor X died...Again. :rolleyes: -He'll be back though. It's already been confirmed. :rolleyes:
Charles Phipps 02-02-08, 01:54 AM	Proof that he's a Realms God! Like Mystra, he will always be back and stronger than ever. http://www.gangus.net/X2%20update/dark_phoenix.jpg Realms Designers: We're REALLY killing Mystra this time. Plus, Elminster will date Emma Frost instead!
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:56 AM	-I love Phoenix. Like Mystra, he will always be back and stronger than ever. -Not this time...:shifty:
Charles Phipps 02-02-08, 01:57 AM	Bah, when sales plummet, watch you seeing "THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN!" Ala Bane
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:59 AM	Bah, when sales plummet, watch you seeing "THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN!" Ala Bane -I agree. Want to start collecting bets as to how long it takes? I say, when 4.5 comes out about two-four years from now, many changes will be explained by the rebirth of Mystra. :cool:
EytanBernstein 02-02-08, 08:58 PM	We just assume psionic-magic transparency and so far no one has microcosmed the world, so I guess it could be worse. Seriously, though, psionics may be relatively rare in the Realms, but it's been there for a while. Here's what the class chronicles web article, which is imo the standard source for non-PHB material in the Realms, says on the topic: in most lands, fewer than 1 person in 10,000 has even minor psionic abilities (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627). The duergar, as well as several monstrous races (the yuan-ti and the illithid being the most well-known) are fairly established in Realms lore. The ghostwise halflings are also currently assumed to have minor psionic talents, but not to the degree of a fully psionic race. For an imo fairly decent treatise on how to treat/insert psionic races in the Realms in 3.5, I would recommend the Class Chronicles sections below: Duergar, Elans and Blues (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070620) - note: I'm rather sceptic on description of the blues, myself. Goblins and orcs are among the most commonly known "monster" races. If not 5, but even 2% of the large goblin population was psionic, they and not the yuan-ti would be the first thing people imagine when someone mentions the Invisible Art. Ghostwise halflings, Githyanki, Mind Flayers, Yuan-ti and others (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627) Psionics across the land (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070703) Psionic Classes (knowledge of the PGtF section on psionics is a plus) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070711) , also has some info on religions which psionic characters might associate with. The description of the blues was admitedly, a precedent from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (and also some information from the 3.5 Underdark book). That said, even if 5% of goblins are born blues, the vast majority are killed off at birth before they ever become powerful enough to challenge. So it's probably no more than 1 in several hundred or even 1 in 1000 that live to develop any power.
Uzzy 02-02-08, 09:12 PM	I do so hope the new Mystra is just like Dark Phoenix. She's surprisingly hot, for someone who destroys planets.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-03-08, 05:03 PM	-Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't want a deity of Psionics. Nor do I want it to have any kind of transparency with magic. I just think both cheapen the uniqueness of Psionics. I'm with you, more or less.:)
Alter_Boy 02-03-08, 07:51 PM	-See, that's the thing. I don't see Psionics as having a purpose in the Realms, in my opinion anyway. It's like a mutation (one possible explanation). It comes with no real rhyme or reason. Hey, if good drow have (had?) their own deity, why can't psionics of any race?
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 11:52 PM	I'm with you, more or less.:) -That's all I need, then. :) Hey, if good drow have (had?) their own deity, why can't psionics of any race? -Because I see Psionics as something that is a random mutation, and isn't supposed to happen, but does anyway. Psions are the mutants of the Forgotten Realms. Now, why should something that isn't supposed to exist have a deity to represent it? That causes too much Clerical Magic/Arcane Magic/Psionics transparency/overlap for my tastes.
The_Mess 02-04-08, 12:36 AM	As opposed to Lycanthropy? Beshaba actually has "accidents" in her portfolio, so random things that aren't supposed to happen have a god. I'm not saying that psionics has to have a god or can't get on very well without one (there's no Faerunian god of mathematics, to my knowledge, but I doubt this hinders algebra), but it could very well have one. Besides, in a world where Very Bad Things happen to souls not ushered into appropriate heavens by their claimed deity, well, if I were a psionicist, I would certainly like to have a patron god! All those poor mathematicians...
Charles Phipps 02-04-08, 01:07 AM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15003382&postcount=57 Speaking of which, my version of Auppenser.
MarkusTay63 02-04-08, 02:14 AM	So I suppose this must be the 4e Ao - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/Galactus1.JPG/278px-Galactus1.JPG :D -I agree. Want to start collecting bets as to how long it takes? I say, when 4.5 comes out about two-four years from now, many changes will be explained by the rebirth of Mystra. :cool:Ugh... this cr@p's reading more and more like a bad Soap Opera. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 03:22 AM	So I suppose this must be the 4e Ao :D -I normally don't like Marvel's 'Ultimate' line, but I think 'Ultimate Galactus' is awesome. Instead of being a giant guy with a purple telescope hat thing, Ultimate Galactus is a sentient swarm of cosmic locusts. Pretty cool.
Alediran 02-04-08, 08:00 AM	As opposed to Lycanthropy? Beshaba actually has "accidents" in her portfolio, so random things that aren't supposed to happen have a god. I'm not saying that psionics has to have a god or can't get on very well without one (there's no Faerunian god of mathematics, to my knowledge, but I doubt this hinders algebra), but it could very well have one. Besides, in a world where Very Bad Things happen to souls not ushered into appropriate heavens by their claimed deity, well, if I were a psionicist, I would certainly like to have a patron god! All those poor mathematicians... Just because you are a psionicist you don't NEED a psions god, just pick another god who suits the characters interests. A justice-loving psion can choose Torm or Tyr. A psion who loves nature and wants to protect it can pick a nature deity.
Charles Phipps 02-04-08, 09:05 AM	I think his point is simply. It's neat Realms flavor.
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 12:03 PM	Just because you are a psionicist you don't NEED a psions god, just pick another god who suits the characters interests. A justice-loving psion can choose Torm or Tyr. A psion who loves nature and wants to protect it can pick a nature deity. -Good point.
Charles Phipps 02-04-08, 12:08 PM	And what if your psionicist is... "My entire purpose is in existence is to promote Psionics and develop my Psionic Abilities to the best because only Psionics matter." It's like saying "Why does a Magic Deity need to exist?"
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 12:11 PM	And what if your psionicist is... "My entire purpose is in existence is to promote Psionics and develop my Psionic Abilities to the best because only Psionics matter." -Oghma: Promoting the teaching of some sort of concept. It's like saying "Why does a Magic Deity need to exist?" -There exists no deity of magic anymore, anyway. But I am of the mind that there shouldn't be a deity of magic. I'd rather see, instead of a deity, a sentient thing...Like Kezef and Dendar, an non-divine entity on par with the power of deities, but not a deity itself.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-26-08, 02:36 AM	Shameless :bump: -Oghma: Promoting the teaching of some sort of concept. As much as I love to have more and more gods in FR I don't see the particular point of having a Psionic diety let the racial gods take care of that (as in Deep Duerra take care of duegars psionics and so on)
DMD 02-26-08, 09:59 AM	I always thought the point of Psionics was that no spark of Divinity is needed. Look at the signature world for Psionics Dark Sun, no gods (unless you count the Dragon Kings). Although if that is someone's preference more power to them. :)
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 11:40 AM	-Yes, I agree.
Asadeseth 03-01-08, 02:57 PM	As both a FR fan and a Psionics fan I have to say I'm going to morn FR, for a little over a year its been torn to shreds and now this.... But now back to topic, no psionics dose NOT nead a God, indead Aupensure works beter as a Godmind concept rather than a God. A distinction that would be lost on most people in FR. A God Mind is an extreamly powerfull god LIKE entity, but one who dose NOT nead fallowers and while some times assosiated with vairous concepts, are not realy tied to them the way gods are. In this sence Aupensure works beter as an extreamly powerfull Magester like being and less a sorce of Psionics. Haveing a God of psionics realy just hurts the flavor. Now as for transpairancy, if psionics and magic don't intereact then neather should divine or arcane. Divine mericals and arcane magic DO intreact, so why not psionics, honestly treating it as wholely seperat and distinect realy dosen't help it. One aspect that I DO suport it being different is Magic dead areas, do to how it dosen't use the weave. This has some practical upshots for groups as well: a) it adds SOME occasional distictiveness; b) its anouther way around the shadow weave feats; c) it sticks it to Shar (the godess of goths) Oh and when I think Psionic races I think, Illithids and Aboliths, I never realy got into Yanti.
Lord Karsus 03-02-08, 12:03 AM	-Psionics and a deity already works awkwardly, with Illithid and Ilsensine.