Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Leukrythus 05-26-07, 09:24 PM	Any suggestions?
GothicDan 05-26-07, 09:32 PM	Have an advanced Great Wyrm gold dragon fall on him? Twice?
Lord Karsus 05-27-07, 12:10 AM	-Find a hireling?
Duagloth 05-27-07, 02:26 AM	Both good suggestions. Get him while he sleeps? Poison his drink? Pay his girls to do the trick? Send a letter to the Simbul in his name?
Alediran 05-28-07, 11:00 AM	Send a letter to the Simbul in his name? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl:
Crust 05-28-07, 02:19 PM	I suggest bringing the wizard's hit points to -10 in whatever way seems feasible to you.
XHereticX 05-28-07, 04:35 PM	When all else fails, use the handy-dandy Elminster safety net. And what lv is ur char anyway?
Lord Karsus 05-28-07, 05:35 PM	Pay his girls to do the trick? -For a second, I thought you wrote, "Pay his girls to turn tricks". Oh boy...
NightBreeze 05-28-07, 09:54 PM	I suggest bringing the wizard's hit points to -10 in whatever way seems feasible to you. I'd suggest that, failing that method, you can still: 1) Use some insta-kill spells 2) Reduce his Constitution to 0 3) Smash him with lots of negative levels 4) Petrify him 5) Put him into a bag and send him to the royal palace of Aglarond.
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 11:05 AM	When all else fails, use the handy-dandy Elminster safety net. And what lv is ur char anyway? My Gray Elf character is a 28th level Wizard, 13 standard levels, 15 as Arch-Wizard. The character was started back in 1980, and had gone up and down in levels as gaming groups changed. A year ago he was moved into FR and became a Harper. Before that he had been in a Harper-like group all along. I recently petitioned to join the Chosen of Mystra (yes, another of those), and was given three tasks to complete. The first two were easy, but the third was to capture Aznar Thrul. After taking out some of Thrul's closest associates and allies, the DM told me that I learned he had acquired True Spellfire. Thrul challenged me to combat in a day and a half at his fortress, and if I chickened out Thay would invade my homeland. We didn't play this weekend, but the battle will be next weekend. The DM will just referee the battle, another player will run Thrul. My character has only standard spells, skills, feats and items from the PHB and DMG, and some feats from the Epic Handbook. I have no artifacts or really powerful magic items. But the DM realized that Thrul (same level as I) would've been dead meat, so he decided to give him True Spellfire. My only attacks are arcane spells since my strength is an abysmal 06. But I do have a strategy that should work, but I don't want to post it in case my opponent is reading, which she may be.
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 11:20 AM	I had posted this elsewhere... My Gray Elf Wizard had made it to 28th level this past weekend. I'm trying to make it into the Chosen of Mystra, but they've given me three tasks. The first two were relatively easy, but the third will be nearly impossible. I need to destroy the Red Wizard Aznar Thrul of Thay. Here is what I am up against... To get his attention I had been sinking ships in the harbors of Bezantur, Thasselen and Murbant, and Escalant too. I had a permanent Prismatic Sphere hidden by Sequester a mile underground in the middle of nowhere, but it was found and taken down by a team of Thayan bounty hunters (all epic level) led by Aznar Thrul himself. I do not know how they found it, but they used Mordenkainen’s Disjunction to destroy it. I was fortunate to Teleport out, and I blame them for the deaths of my assistant, 12 students and my pseudo-dragon familiar Tomaret who were trapped inside. I started dropping Walls of Stone and Walls of Iron from high above on their Central Citadel and Temple of Shar in Bezantur, and the Red Wizards responded by covering much of the city with a Wall of Force. With Binding [A8] I captured Yecnol (Red Wizard) when he engaged me in battle, and Ormigredon (Priest of Shar) outside his temple. They could not protect the entire city, so I burned the warehouses and the markets. I learned who the remaining members of the Thayan group were who attacked my home. They hired a group of Blue Dragons, Cornugons and Marids to help them. My best attack had been to cast Binding with the help of my six Simulacrums, then Teleport out. Aznar Thrul and his major followers now have Spell Immunity [D8] to Binding, and are protected by Foresight [A9]. Although they were protected individually, I still was able to burn their cities and ships at will. Their tactics have evolved to using their Magic Circles to cast Mord’s Disjunction at a ridiculously high caster level to approximately where their Foresight warned them that my attack will come from, and enhanced it with Meta/Enlarge (range 250 ft) and Meta/Widen (80 ft radius). I still attack them with Arcane Energy, but need to retreat immediately after firing two bolts before they could cast their Disjunction.
King_Neckchopper 05-29-07, 11:50 AM	what is a 15 level arch wizard? What book is that class in? Did he challenge you to a mage duel, using the rules in the magic of faerun ? I would suggest you to hit him with spells that allow no save and no SR Like a Maximized Melfs Acid Arrow, or a Orb of Force. Dont be frightened by his True spellfire ability, in order for him to absorb you spell energy he would have to ready a action to do it, just like counterspelling. If he isnt a spellfire channeler, then all he can do is blast you with spellfire and absorb your spell energy. He cant hold to much spell energy if he isnt a spellfire channeler (up to his CON). defensively you want to get your reflex save higher and inprove your touch AC. finally good luck in you battle.
Red_Wizard 05-29-07, 11:51 AM	If you're campaign takes place in the current year, then you might have your work cut out for you. Spoiler Aznar Thrul is Dead
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 12:15 PM	what is a 15 level arch wizard? What book is that class in? Arch-Mage, from the DMG [178,179]. I call myself an Arch-Wizard. Did he challenge you to a mage duel, using the rules in the magic of faerun? I'm not sure what they are, never heard of them. I was told that I had until midnight of the next day to finish the battle (Honorable Red Wizard vs Harper Assassin), or the invasion would start immediately. I would suggest you to hit him with spells that allow no save and no SR Like a Maximized Melf's Acid Arrow, or a Orb of Force. Don't be frightened by his True spellfire ability, in order for him to absorb you spell energy he would have to ready a action to do it, just like counterspelling. If he isn't a spellfire channeler, then all he can do is blast you with spellfire and absorb your spell energy. He cant hold to much spell energy if he isn't a spellfire channeler (up to his CON). defensively you want to get your reflex save higher and improve your touch AC. finally good luck in you battle. From what I understand, True Spellfire works like a Rod of Absorbtion [DMG 234], and he need not be ready. I am going under the assumption that he will be protected by Foresight [A9], True Seeing [A6], Globe of Invulnerability [A6], Mind Blank [A8], and Spell Resistance [A5], and will be using his Spell Circle to its maximum potential, as well as his Spell Power. Thanks for the well wishes, I will need it. I wanted that the DM didn't referee and play the Red Wizard at the same time, because as far as I know, no other player in our group has more than a limited experience playing an epic arcane spellcaster. But they had seen my character in action, and that's why I'm assuming the above defensive measures. It's what I'd do at a minimum. And the only thing I do fear is the True Spellfire, it will absorb my spells and allow the Red Wizard to discharge it back at me the same round. If you're interested in my strategy and want to critique it before the battle, email me at leukrythus@yahoo.com.
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 12:20 PM	If you're campaign takes place in the current year, then you might have your work cut out for you. One of my biggest complaints about "world in a box" campaigns is that there is so much new stuff coming out that it is nearly impossible for part time gamers to keep up with it. Anyway, this battle may be the cause of your spoiler. Vote YES! on a Thayan controlled Unther I have no problem with that, dig your own quagmire!
Crust 05-29-07, 01:26 PM	Spellfire is a supernatural ability, so an antimagic field will stop it. Heck, you might even have permanent emanation (antimagic field), at which point you can raise and lower its defenses round by round. I suggest gating in allies beforehand and hurling them at Thrul while you attempt a Mord's disjunction. He shouldn't be able to absorb that spell. Then let the solar or whatever planar powerhouse you're gated in finish the job.
Red_Wizard 05-29-07, 02:33 PM	One of my biggest complaints about "world in a box" campaigns is that there is so much new stuff coming out that it is nearly impossible for part time gamers to keep up with it. Anyway, this battle may be the cause of your spoiler. Just thought I'd point it out, though if you're ignoring his real murderer, then paying attention to the spoiler is not needed :) And good to have you vote....though I still want to see Rasheman conquered, just have to wait for more support on that one:P
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 02:40 PM	Spellfire is a supernatural ability, so an antimagic field will stop it. Heck, you might even have permanent emanation (antimagic field), at which point you can raise and lower its defenses round by round. That was a thought. But the main problem is that I would be standing on the ground with poor HP and AC for my level, and zero offensive punch. I suggest gating in allies beforehand and hurling them at Thrul while you attempt a Mord's disjunction. He shouldn't be able to absorb that spell. Then let the solar or whatever planar powerhouse you're gated in finish the job. The contest is to be fought without allies. That does not rule out a cheering section (aka Magic Circle), a familiar, or illusory duplicates. But no allies may participate in the battle. The Disjunction may work, but I suspect that his Will Save bonus is somewhere in the mid 30s due to Magic Circle and Spell Power.
Speters0519 05-29-07, 02:44 PM	Use something with shadow magic...if you can get your hands on that something...silver fire and shadow magic don't so much like each other....they cancel each other out, or rip a hole in all of existence, either way it'll be a nice distraction.
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 02:45 PM	Just thought I'd point it out, though if you're ignoring his real murderer, then paying attention to the spoiler is not needed. Where was that from? To be honest, I don't read any D&D novels, and I don't believe the DM reads much either. Usually we try to play catch-up, when we find out after the case what the gods of the realms say should've happened in our campaign. Sometimes we can make it fit, sometimes we just live with the difference. At least once we went back and rewrote history since a change was to major to ignore.
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 02:51 PM	Use something with shadow magic...if you can get your hands on that something...silver fire and shadow magic don't so much like each other....they cancel each other out, or rip a hole in all of existence, either way it'll be a nice distraction. That sounds like it has some potential, but at present I don't have any Shadow Magic. The PHB is very vague on this subschool, can you recommend a good source of info?
Red_Wizard 05-29-07, 02:52 PM	It happens in the novel "Unclean". It's fairly new, so not having read it is understandable. For me, I incorporate all canon, but I'm **** like that :P
Lord Karsus 05-29-07, 04:44 PM	-How did you get 15 levels in Archmage? The PrC only goes to 5.
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 04:58 PM	-How did you get 15 levels in Archmage? The PrC only goes to 5. The DM is not a rules lawyer, he has allowed that class and other prestige classes to go on indefinitely.
Lord Karsus 05-29-07, 05:08 PM	-So, what kinds of things can you do? What are the benefits of these floating 10 levels of Archmage?
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 05:31 PM	-So, what kinds of things can you do? What are the benefits of these floating 10 levels of Archmage? One High Arcana per level. I've already spent all my fifth level spells, and started eating into my sixth level spells. What else is there for a pure Wizard to progress in?
NightBreeze 05-29-07, 07:20 PM	Well, there's the best prc for wizards, named "Incantatrix"
Leukrythus 05-29-07, 10:22 PM	Well, there's the best prc for wizards, named "Incantatrix" I don't have either of the books its detailed in and couldn't find an informative link on the P-class, do you have any info? One drawback is the prereq for the Iron Will feat. I will not blow a chance for an infinitely more useful epic feat for that.
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 12:10 AM	One High Arcana per level. I've already spent all my fifth level spells, and started eating into my sixth level spells. -One High Arcana per level, eh? That means that you've got fifteen of 'em! That's some serious magic you're flinging around. What else is there for a pure Wizard to progress in? -Elven High Mage, if one is an Elf. Otherwise, there isn't anything else...
Leukrythus 05-30-07, 12:33 AM	-One High Arcana per level, eh? That means that you've got fifteen of 'em! That's some serious magic you're flinging around. Yep, that's why the Red Wizards fear me. But that's 15 fifth level or higher spells I can't cast. With our group's limited source material, there is nothing else of interest. -Elven High Mage, if one is an Elf. Otherwise, there isn't anything else... In reading through this forum it is painfully obvious to me that although I have the three core books plus four others, that I am significantly out-libraried by nearly everyone here. While Incantatrix and Elven High Mage seem like interesting choices, is there a minimally painless way for someone whose investment in books is only at about $250 to know what prestige classes are available, and what they are?
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 01:04 AM	In reading through this forum it is painfully obvious to me that although I have the three core books plus four others, that I am significantly out-libraried by nearly everyone here. While Incantatrix and Elven High Mage seem like interesting choices, is there a minimally painless way for someone whose investment in books is only at about $250 to know what prestige classes are available, and what they are? -There is an alternative Elven High Mage in Elves of Faerûn, to which the link is in my signature.
Zandilar 05-30-07, 05:06 AM	Heya, That sounds like it has some potential, but at present I don't have any Shadow Magic. The PHB is very vague on this subschool, can you recommend a good source of info? Err... I think the poster was meaning using the Shadow Weave. If you want to become a Chosen of Mystra, I'd steer very clear of it. Way way way clear. Mystra won't like you, and in the unlikely event Mystra still Chooses you, Shar is likely to hunt you down personally.
Mordent_Sage 05-30-07, 06:13 AM	Have him bumped off before hand. I'd recommend a hireling Reaping Mauler (grappling specialist PrC), with natural weapons, and an anti-magic field running (from an item or spell, either's good). This combines a mages two worst fears - grappling, and no magic. Even his wizardly friends would be unable to help, cos of the field. A good fiew rounds of smashing his head against the floor and attempting to pull of his arms (that is, dealing unarmed damage in a grapple) should do quite well. He can't have that many hit points, he's a wizard! I know it's not honourable, it's not nice and it's not cricket, but by god it's effective.
GothicDan 05-30-07, 05:43 PM	He'd have a Foresight up telling him of the attack, anyway, and probably a Contingency that had a Teleport in it that went off as soon as the Foresight-foreseen menace was about to occur.
Mordent_Sage 05-31-07, 03:11 AM	Foresight, probably. The contingency? Not likely - there's better things to contingency then "if some nutter with an antimagic field is about to come and pull my head off". I think that "anything that foresight warns me of" will result in the contingency going off the first time someone sneezes, or similar. If you mind blank the nut, then he activates the antimagic field when he's within 10 feet of the mage, the foresight (a divination spell) will not warn him of the forthcoming ass-kicking.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 07:40 AM	Foresight, probably. The contingency? Not likely - there's better things to contingency then "if some nutter with an antimagic field is about to come and pull my head off". I think that "anything that foresight warns me of" will result in the contingency going off the first time someone sneezes, or similar. I disagree with you, an Anti-Magic Field is deadly to an arcane spellcaster. That is the one contingency I had used... to teleport out when I came within a foot of one. Until I found a better solution. And I believe that you are misunderstanding what would be considered a threat for Foresight. If you mind blank the nut, then he activates the antimagic field when he's within 10 feet of the mage, the foresight (a divination spell) will not warn him of the forthcoming ass-kicking. And how will the "Nut" get within ten feet of the Red Wizard without being detected? I don't know how NPC spell casters have been played in your campaigns, but from my campaigns the DMs have played them effectively with offensive and defensive spells. Foresight would warn its caster of an encroaching Anti-Magic Field. And as a good aligned wizard under the constraint of fighting alone, why would I cheat and hire someone to do the job for me. Especially if I knew I could win without cheating? And the Reaping Mauler would stand no chance of getting anywhere near me, as long as he didn't have some special artifact, many levels more than me, or some god-like powers or assistance.
Khaelieth 05-31-07, 08:59 AM	Get him with a magical impact ballista. Force him to take massive damage.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 09:24 AM	Get him with a magical impact ballista. Force him to take massive damage. What is that, if you don't mind me asking.
Mordent_Sage 05-31-07, 09:33 AM	Leukrythus, if you're sure of winning anyway, why ask for help on the boards? And if our hypothetical assassin activates the anti-magic field when the wizard is in range of it (for example, in a crowded market place or similar - I don't know the location this is going on etc, so you're gonna have to do some of the thinking. Try teleport, a disguise as a servant/workman, or a concealed pit within ten feet of where the guy gonna go), a contingency will be suppressed before it goes off, and the mind blank will stop the foresight giving any warning at all. Personally, I don't think being of good alignment stops a person from hireing others to do the fighting for him. It's your character, though, so he can be as honour-bound as you like.
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 11:25 AM	What is that, if you don't mind me asking. -I'm not 100% sure, but I'm sure that shooting said Red Wizard with a normal ballista would work too.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 11:45 AM	-I'm not 100% sure, but I'm sure that shooting said Red Wizard with a normal ballista would work too. If he's 28th level, and for generosity assume he has a Con of 18, that would be 180-190 hit points. I'd have to hit him with many projectiles, and he probably also has Stone Skin. How big a ballista and bolt would I need to do 200 points of damage? Foresight would warn him of the upcoming bolt, or anything else I might want to drop on him from above.
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 12:02 PM	-There is a rule that says something along the lines of if a creature and/or character takes more than 50 (Don't quote me on that number) points of damage in one hit, the damage is "massive damage" and the character/creature has to roll a will save, where failure is either lapsing into unconsciousness, or death. I believe the DMG talks about it.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 12:18 PM	-There is a rule that says something along the lines of if a creature and/or character takes more than 50 (Don't quote me on that number) points of damage in one hit, the damage is "massive damage" and the character/creature has to roll a will save, where failure is either lapsing into unconsciousness, or death. I believe the DMG talks about it. Yeah... page 145 in the PHB. But I don't believe that he'd fail the DC=15 Fortitude Save (1/20 chance). I'm looking forward to the battle, and will try to post the play by play and results on Monday.
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 02:18 PM	Yeah... page 145 in the PHB. But I don't believe that he'd fail the DC=15 Fortitude Save (1/20 chance). -Wow, it's only a DC 15, huh? Oh well...Well, there's always the chance for a Natural One...
GothicDan 05-31-07, 05:31 PM	Set him up. And then have Szass Tam deal with it.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 06:09 PM	Set him up. And then have Szass Tam deal with it. I get the impression that Szass Tam is not thrilled with the prospect of his associate/rival acquiring True Spellfire. I've had previous run ins with the Red Wizards, and Szass Tam already has a bounty on my head. Whoever wins this battle should expect to be in conflict with that Lich very soon.
GothicDan 05-31-07, 06:12 PM	So don't do it YOURSELF! Hire something else to do it. Or hire something to hire someone, while you're disguised (preferrably via both magic and real disguises), long distance from an undisclosed location, warded against divination spells. Silly kids these days. ;)
NightBreeze 05-31-07, 07:55 PM	Well, Incantatrix requires you give up a feat and a school, but then you go crazy with metamagic feats. [empowered maximized twinned whatever is nasty, after all]. As for elven high mage, I don't really remember what that class was....IIRC it was a 5-level prestige class that gave you reductions to the cost of epic spells?
zerodeviere 06-01-07, 01:24 PM	How about cast Prismatic Sphere and step out of it and cast permanency on it and hope he doesn't have the spells to tear it down or his spell book with him. Or throw an Iron band of Bilarro at him and hope he doesn't have a stilled teleport to get away and hurl your spells at him before he can melt it and get out. Either way make sure you make a huge donation to the godess of luck before you try. Plus if you base it all off the books just spread the work he has it and watch others try to take him down and move in when he seems tired. Besides he can't absorb spells like Delayed Blast Fireball and such.. only spells that target him. and a anti-magic spell will still protect you from his spell fire.:D
Leukrythus 06-01-07, 03:27 PM	Now we're getting somewhere! I had planned on using Meta/Extended Time Stop, and with my Epic/Multispell waste him with as many Delayed Blast Energy Balls (Mastery of Elements, some eta/Empowered) as I had, including from items and scrolls. And I would randomize the energy form to use so it would not be known until I started casting, so Foresight could only warn him which type of energy attack. Should that fail I'll have another Time stop saved up, and the next round of attacks will be different and even more deadly.
Nathvas 06-01-07, 03:27 PM	Evard's Black Tentacles. The unlitmate spell. well sorta. ;) its a lvl 4 spell that has no saving throws and goes right Threw SR. The poor guy will have to make a counter grapple check of your caster lvl plus 8. So throw that at him.
Leukrythus 06-01-07, 03:28 PM	Evard's Black Tentacles. The unlitmate spell. well sorta. Its a lvl 4 spell that has no saving throws and goes right Threw SR. The poor guy will have to make a counter grapple check of your caster lvl plus 8. So throw that at him. Globe of Invulnerability.
King_Neckchopper 06-01-07, 09:58 PM	Im sorry
King_Neckchopper 06-01-07, 10:08 PM	oops I did it again! truth fully the delayed blasting sound like its gonna work. He cannot automatically absorb spells, I have a character with spellfire and I wish he could automatically absorb spells. I also have a high level chosen of Mystra character who would hunt you down if you ever played around with shadow weave magic. Finally, the best arcane prestige class is the Arcane Avatar, from the quintessential wizard, the can cut a spell caster off from the weave !
Leukrythus 06-02-07, 01:14 AM	oops I did it again! truth fully the delayed blasting sound like its gonna work. He cannot automatically absorb spells, I have a character with spellfire and I wish he could automatically absorb spells. I also have a high level chosen of Mystra character... If you don't mind me asking, what did you did to earn such a prestigious honor? And how did you acquire Spellfire (not Silverfire)? The reason I ask is because I'm curious how this was done in other games. I also have a high level chosen of Mystra character who would hunt you down if you ever played around with shadow weave magic. Heh... I love a challenge. Not that we even acknowledged the existence of Shadow Weave in our game. Finally, the best arcane prestige class is the Arcane Avatar, from the quentessential wizard, the can cut a spell caster off from the weave ! The "Quentessential Wizard"... that's not a D&D book, is it?
zerodeviere 06-02-07, 02:08 AM	Again spell fire can not absorb DB fireball and the like so don't have to worry about that aspect of it.
Leukrythus 06-02-07, 12:27 PM	Again spell fire can not absorb DB fireball and the like so don't have to worry about that aspect of it. Although I am confident that I can win this battle, I asked this question in case the unforeseen happens, that he has immunity to my energy attacks. That's why I'd like to know if anyone else had such a battle in the past, with an opponent that was playing to win.
Red_Wizard 06-02-07, 07:52 PM	Curious as to why the Chaotic Evil Zulkir of Evocation has wound up in an "honorable" spell dual with you. Personally as a DM, and a player, I don't see how this might have even reasonably happened. Not to mention, sitting here planning for various possibilities does little good, as knowing what Aznar Thrul might have planned, or prepared is impossible. Maybe he has a quickened time stop, or contingencies in place to teleport him to safety should the spell be cast, or a dispel contingency in place set for just such an occurance. Or maybe he has several apprentices waiting in the wings with dispels to counter every move you make, and when you are thuroughly defeated, he will mockingly tear you apart with his full arsenal of potent spells. Not to mention who knows what items he might have on him, or have access to. Not to mention, a man with 9268 troops in one single location alone, is unlikely to come out head on and face you at your full capabilities. Ultimatly it comes down to your knowledge of the rules, VS the DM's, and you are on the losing side as he has final say in all things. Not to mention the ability to have anything needed appear on the fly. IC I say you should be screwed, and OOC I say you should be screwed. Thats just me, but maybe I see things alittle differently than most.
Leukrythus 06-02-07, 08:23 PM	Curious as to why the Chaotic Evil Zulkir of Evocation has wound up in an "honorable" spell dual with you. "Honorable" was his word to describe himself. He described me as a "Harper Assassin". I'm guessing that he challenged me now, because he just acquired True Spellfire, and finally felt that he had the chance to win. I also get the feeling that he wants to make a move to become the Uber-Zulkir of Thay. But I can't risk not fighting, because I don't want my homeland attacked. Personally as a DM, and a player, I don't see how this might have even reasonably happened. Not to mention, sitting here planning for various possibilities does little good, as knowing what Aznar Thrul might have planned, or prepared is impossible. I guess we could all critique each other's game in the same manner. But I had my two plans set before I posted here, I thought it would make for interesting conversation, on how different players would approach the situation. But if I were to critique other games, it's that too many DMs give away too much too easily, and don't play spell using adversaries to their full potential. Maybe he has a quickened time stop, or contingencies in place to teleport him to safety should the spell be cast, or a dispel contingency in place set for just such an occurance. Or maybe he has several apprentices waiting in the wings with dispels to counter every move you make, and when you are thuroughly defeated, he will mockingly tear you apart with his full arsenal of potent spells. Maybe, maybe not. But from the intelligence I gathered from his close associates that I've captured, he's about my level, and doesn't have many, if any more high level associates. I took out his nest of nine high level followers while he disappeared for a week. He likely has powerful Fiends that he's paying. He is waiting for me on top of his tower fortress. That's probably not gospel according to some novel, but so be it. It's our game. It is likely that he will use the prestige of his win to gather support to become ruler of Thay. Not to mention who knows what items he might have on him, or have access to. Not to mention, a man with 9268 troops in one single location alone, is unlikely to come out head on and face you at your full capabilities. Whatever. he can do what he likes with his 9,268 troops. They won't effect the battle. Ultimatly it comes down to your knowledge of the rules, VS the DM's, and you are on the losing side as he has final say in all things. Not to mention the ability to have anything needed appear on the fly. That's why it won't be me vs the DM, another player will be playing the Red Wizard. I said that upthread, that was a condition of mine for the battle. IC I say you should be screwed, and OOC I say you should be screwed. Thats just me, but maybe I see things a little differently than most. I'd like to find a neutral DM, and challenge your Red Wizard to the same combat. You probably have me out itemed, and have access to more stuff from more books. But if we're reasonably close in levels, stats and items, I'd like to challenge you next.
Red_Wizard 06-02-07, 09:24 PM	I'm guessing that he challenged me now, because he just acquired True Spellfire, and finally felt that he had the chance to win. From everything I have seen, read, or heard, the aquisition of true spellfire (something that is incredibly unlikely for a man such as him to aquire, even given who his master was) is not something any of the Zulkirs would ever be in a position of being able to aquire. As for winning... I also get the feeling that he wants to make a move to become the Uber-Zulkir of Thay. But I can't risk not fighting, because I don't want my homeland attacked. This goal can be much more easily achieved by making a single decisive move against Tam, not against some person who has raised his ire from beyond Thays border. With Thay backing him, he could then march the whole land on your home, and not blink at you standing in the way. With a country of wizards moving at his beck and call, he has no need to worry about you, gains your land un contested, and takes his desired spot as Emperor of all Thay. All this, and he doesn't need to waste time, and energy on a person who means nothing to the future of Thay. I guess we could all critique each other's game in the same manner. But I had my two plans set before I posted here, I thought it would make for interesting conversation, on how different players would approach the situation. And it is, but I am asking questions to sate my curiosity on the matter you have raised. But, if you have it all planned out then why ask here? We/ I can't tell you something you don't want to hear. I am simply saying my approach to the situation would be drastically different, based off what Canon has put out for me regarding high level NPC's. So, based on canon, I was wondering how you were explaining all the discrepancies away. Were I to be asked for justification on a similar matter, i'd not become defensive towards the commenter, though that seems to be the route that many decide to take these days. But if I were to critique other games, it's that too many DMs give away too much too easily, and don't play spell using adversaries to their full potential. I agree fully. Which is why I ask. People wanting to fight Canon NPC's makes little sense, beyond their deeply rooted need to try and prove their PC's superiority over everything. Where an NPC of this caliber played properly, there would be no short quick way to discover anything about them. Sure, maybe with many years to try and infiltrate, and disrupt perhaps, but not in any fashion that I have seen from other people asking similar questions. Maybe, maybe not. But from the intelligence I gathered from his close associates that I've captured, he's about my level, and doesn't have many, if any more high level associates. I took out his nest of nine high level followers while he disappeared for a week. He likely has powerful Fiends that he's paying. How would you know he is about your level? There are no levels in reality, and last time I checked, he doesn't go around casting his most powerful spells, while someone runs about merrily measuring the ammount of damage done to the surrounding area. A wizard attains 9th level spells at 17th level, and most spells max out in damage at 20th to 25th, so anything from 17th beyond is almost impossible to gauge power for. As for high level associates, he is allied with half of the other Zulkir's, one of which being Nevron who supports him with shipments of fiends. As he has never been fully expanded upon in 3.5 lore, chances are good his alliances spread to many other, equally powerful aquaintences. Whether those are Tharchions, or priests in the many, MANY chucrhes in the Tharch he rules is still up in the air for debate. He is waiting for me on top of his tower fortress. That's probably not gospel according to some novel, but so be it. It's our game. It is likely that he will use the prestige of his win to gather support to become ruler of Thay. That won't bring him any support. The factions would remain devided, and none of the other Zulkirs would back him being sole, and supreme ruler. They didn't allow Tam to do it, and his plot is much more elaborate, than simply kill some "harper assassin" with an over inflated sense of self worth. Were that the case, Tam would have shot to the top with his single handed murder of three Zulkirs in his life that we know of. Like I said, with his modified power, attacking Tam directly would be the more sensical, and likely avenue for him to take, And swifter route to his desired goals. You yourself complain that people should play NPC spell slingers properly, well I am pointing out the "proper" way he should be played. Whatever. he can do what he likes with his 9,268 troops. They won't effect the battle. Played properly they would have a massive impact. I don't care what level you are, 9,268 soldiers swarming over you, with a dimensional anchor barring you escape, would mean you're destruction. Then all he'd need do is sit back, and dispel you're attempts to fly clear of the brawl. Also, "Whatever" is not a viable argument by any stretch of the imagination. That's why it won't be me vs the DM, another player will be playing the Red Wizard. I said that upthread, that was a condition of mine for the battle. Another folly. A player can not properly manage a man who has the resources of a Zulkir, and the influence of many other high level beings. Who is to constrain what he has, could aquire, could prepare, and so forth. Only a DM could give the proper limits, and thus the player, with no say in the matter, is left to either guess, or come in unprepared. Short of having played the character from the beggining, it is unfair to drop an NPC of that level on a player, and expect anything less than complete dissapointment from his performance. I'd like to find a neutral DM, and challenge your Red Wizard to the same combat. You probably have me out itemed, and have access to more stuff from more books. But if we're reasonably close in levels, stats and items, I'd like to challenge you next. I don't have an epic Red Wizard actually. Epic isn't something that appeals to me. I prefer a solid RP base, with intrigue, and plot twisting, to the number crunching, god building that seems to have become the norm of moddern DnD. Despite my characters in game age, he has not advanced past 18th level in his current incarnation. That being said, i'd be happy to oblidge dragging mine up 10 levels to meet your harper in combat. ;):)
Leukrythus 06-03-07, 02:51 AM	From everything I have seen, read, or heard, the aquisition of true spellfire (something that is incredibly unlikely for a man such as him to aquire, even given who his master was) is not something any of the Zulkirs would ever be in a position of being able to aquire. It's a game. We have fun. That trumps following canon to the letter, although we do try if possible. Let's leave it at that.
Lord Karsus 06-03-07, 05:38 PM	-Just something we should all keep in mind. There is a difference between playing in a campaign, and "bending the rules", which is fine in that context, and following the Realms in an analytical sense, like half of us here do, where you can't throw canon out the window.
Leukrythus 06-03-07, 09:56 PM	-Just something we should all keep in mind. There is a difference between playing in a campaign, and "bending the rules", which is fine in that context, and following the Realms in an analytical sense, like half of us here do, where you can't throw canon out the window. I do not seek to throw canon out the window, nor do we bend any rules to my knowledge. But role playing should be fun. It should not be a chore to keep up with canon. I can respect those who wish to play in a canonically correct game, but can they respect my desire not to?
Crust 06-03-07, 10:30 PM	Yeah, I myself was wondering why a Chosen would challange Thrul in a one-on-one spell duel of this nature, when it could be argued that Thrul is one of the most prolific evokers in the Realms, furthering the study of said school, etc. etc... And yes, Mystra is good now so it might make sense.... Yeah. Based on the OP, we're past all that. I still think it comes down to who drops Mord's disjunction first. A quickened dimensional lock wouldn't hurt, either. The time stop/delayed blast medley is clutch, especially with energy admixture. The 28th level elf wizard in my previous campaign used it often, and with mastery of elements, it was extremely versatile.
Lord Karsus 06-03-07, 11:35 PM	I do not seek to throw canon out the window, nor do we bend any rules to my knowledge. But role playing should be fun. It should not be a chore to keep up with canon. I can respect those who wish to play in a canonically correct game, but can they respect my desire not to? :incog: -Psst...I was defending you, dude...I was mentioning that there's nothing wrong with going against canon in a home campaign, if one wants to...
Drew1369r 06-04-07, 01:04 AM	Globe of invulnerabilty... keeps those pesky little spells from hurting you... from there load up on resist energy and have them ALL DON"T FORGET SONIC!!!!!!!!! then hit him with spells that makes him unable to absorb anymore and cast otto's irresitable dance blast him a couple times and do it again... heck you might be able to just attack him outright with a weapon while he's dancing too!!! Force shield is another very very handy spell This order... Timestop hope for a high high roll on yer d4+1 Force shield him then delay blast fire ball a couple times all set to go off at the same time the round after timestop ends that way he can't even get a reflex save. You can force shield him because it doesn't harm him AND you can cast delayed blast FB in the timestop as well because they don't hurt him during the timestop as well. Look at spells that have NO saves that can aid you... many still allow spell resistance but I don't know if this dude has anything that grants it... Rob of the archmagi maybe... Now another thing is in a pinch you can get yerself a full powered Staff of Power and wait and break it if the fight aint going in your favor and hope that you roll the under 50% to shift to the astral plane and plane shift back to FR!
King_Neckchopper 06-04-07, 09:14 AM	If you don't mind me asking, what did you did to earn such a prestigious honor? My Character Shanti Ashtangi (along with the rest of my party)liberated a land where the use of magic was outlawed and the people were oppresed. We over threw the Kingdom and started a revolution, while establishing the church of mystra there. I was'nt east at all. To learn more about my character theck out The Book Of Aberil Toril thread in Faerunian People Places ... And how did you acquire Spellfire (not Silverfire)? In 2ed I had a wild mage character whose son was born with spellfire. Eventually My DM allowed me to play his son in 3.5ed so I studied the whole spellfire ability thoroughly. The Spellfire ability was something that was passed on throughout my characters family, I think it skips every other generation. My spellfire wielding character is a warlock/spellfire channeler. The reason I ask is because I'm curious how this was done in other games. Heh... I love a challenge. Not that we even acknowledged the existence of Shadow Weave in our game. The "Quentessential Wizard"... that's not a D&D book, is it? That is a mongoose publishing book. My chosen of Mystra is a Arcane Avatar, among other things.
King_Neckchopper 06-04-07, 09:20 AM	If you don't mind me asking, what did you did to earn such a prestigious honor? And how did you acquire Spellfire (not Silverfire)? The reason I ask is because I'm curious how this was done in other games. Heh... I love a challenge. Not that we even acknowledged the existence of Shadow Weave in our game. The "Quentessential Wizard"... that's not a D&D book, is it? My character Shanti Ashtangi And the rest of the party liberated a magically oppressed land and now its a magocracy, My character was bless by mystra to be the chosen of this land. He is its King and Protector. If you ever want to get spells for free, Kulxikantoos is the place to be. If you want to learn more about my character check him out in Faerunian People Places, in The Book of Aber-Toril, Thread.
Leukrythus 06-04-07, 09:31 AM	My character Shanti Ashtangi And the rest of the party liberated a magically oppressed land and now its a magocracy, My character was bless by mystra to be the chosen of this land. He is its King and Protector. If you ever want to get spells for free, Kulxikantoos is the place to be. If you want to learn more about my character check him out in Faerunian People Places, in The Book of Aber-Toril, Thread. I couldn't find that thread, could you please link it?
Leukrythus 06-04-07, 10:04 AM	We had our battle last night, after our regular game concluded. Another thing that may upset literary purists is that two powerful Epic Wizards fought a monumental battle while eating grilled burgers and drinking beer on a shaded porch... oh well. The battle went as planned, I hit him with more than enough area effect cold to kill him despite his making every reflex save. But I took other steps to assure that his Resist Energy and Protection from Energy were down before by spells hit him all at once. Once the cold spells hit and he was killed, I cast Soul Bind and won a contested battle of wills with him and prevented his soul from escaping back to the Clone he set up. I could not recover his body (or loot his items) as his body disappeared. Down all my high level spells I chose not to search his fortress and left with my soul-filled black sapphire. The next day I presented the soul-filled black sapphire to a priest of Mystra, then met one of the Chosen (Storm). She told me that I was rejected from the chosen for the following reasons: * My actions have shown to be too Chaotic and unpredictable. * I was too impartial and inflexible by favoring Good over Evil. * They already had reason to mistrust me because I was not Human. I politely thanked her for consideration, and cast Quickened/Teleport (back home) and Instant Summons (reclaiming the gem). I wonder if I'm still a harper in good standing?
King_Neckchopper 06-04-07, 01:59 PM	I think they Jerked you big time bro, if not outright used you to take out a very powerful enemy. I will try to link the thread but I'm new at this so it may take awhile. In any event congratulations I applaud your victory! All Hail the Mighty Mother of All Magic! Even though her peeps yerked you!
King_Neckchopper 06-04-07, 02:05 PM	I couldn't find that thread, could you please link it? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=757104 I hope this helps you find it. I have 3 or four characters there. I thinkyou should post your character there too, I like your character, Im sure hes kick but!
Leukrythus 06-04-07, 02:32 PM	I think they Jerked you big time bro, if not outright used you to take out a very powerful enemy. I will try to link the thread but I'm new at this so it may take awhile. In any event congratulations I applaud your victory! All Hail the Mighty Mother of All Magic! Even though her peeps yerked you! Actually I'm glad the DM did that. The abilities granted to become a Chosen are way too powerful for a player character. We agreed to that over a shot of Gentleman Jack. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, whether I can or care to rejoin the Harpers. I hinted that since I had Thrul's body and had his soul trapped, that I may release him along with some of his other associates. That got a "don't do that!" from some of the other players with epic good characters, and an evil chuckle from the DM. The DM has been dropping hints that I should become more involved with elven events... so I may just do that. It sounds like he has a new storyline in mind, so I'm game for that.
King_Neckchopper 06-04-07, 02:58 PM	Actually I'm glad the DM did that. The abilities granted to become a Chosen are way too powerful for a player character. We agreed to that over a shot of Gentleman Jack. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, whether I can or care to rejoin the Harpers. I hinted that since I had Thrul's body and had his soul trapped, that I may release him along with some of his other associates. That got a "don't do that!" from some of the other players with epic good characters, and an evil chuckle from the DM. The DM has been dropping hints that I should become more involved with elven events... so I may just do that. It sounds like he has a new storyline in mind, so I'm game for that. Well I guess it depends on the campaign, If you ask me most of the write up of characters in the books are pretty weak, but that is B/C of the DM's I play with. We use high ability scores for our PC's. My chosen of Mystra got served many times, while gaining experience. Did you checkout the thread. if you and the DM agreed to it then it's all good. Its all about fun & Character survival!
Leukrythus 06-04-07, 04:32 PM	I posted one of my characters there, Leukruthus is a Drow Sorcerer and Vampire. I'll get to Raguhael (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raguel_(archangel)) the Harper Wizard (of this story) later or tomorrow. I glanced through it, I'll read some of the other characters a bit more thoroughly afterward.