Iltkazar and the Reclamation of Shanatar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Iltkazar and the Reclamation of Shanatar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Demetrios
03-16-06, 03:25 PM Since this plot thread has been hanging for quite a while, it was nice to get an update on the Reclamation of Shanatar in Power of Faerun. But the update didn't mention one important matter - what are the shield dwarves of Iltkazar doing at this point? This war is being fought on their very doorstep, if not within the accepted boundries of their kingdom (since the gold dwarves in Barakuir and the beholders of Ilt'zokir are on opposite sides of Iltkazar). So - are they doing nothing (as their government is paralyzed because their king has "gone missing")? Are they defending their own area from all invaders? Are they helping the gold dwarves?
Surly Dwarf
03-21-06, 11:57 PM I recall reading in an interview with the writer of Drizzts Guide to the Underdark that he wanted to do a campaign on Shanatar.
The throne is in dwarf hands and waiting for a king, but unless it's written about in a novel or campaign I wouldn't expect any reborn Shanatar.
I expect that the Gold Dwarves will beat the Duergar in the long run but they will not be able to hold their ground unless they just concentrate on one Kingdom.
I don't find it too strange that the Shield Dwarves aren't getting too worked up about Shanatar as they are only just consolidating their gains in the North.
BrianCritchley
03-22-06, 03:24 AM but unless it's written about in a novel or campaign I wouldn't expect any reborn Shanatar.

I'd expect a novel more. that being said it wouldn't shock me if it happened. it seems that WOTC is slowly ressurecting a lot of the older empires.
nbnmare
03-22-06, 07:12 AM Who knows, perhaps all these ancient empires returning is more than mere coincidence. For example, there could be some extremely secretive figure carefully pulling the strings, trying to return the Realms to its "glory days" for his or her own mysterious reasons...
DM_Dracophile
03-22-06, 07:22 AM I've always been fascinated by the Duergar. Some view them as the equivalent of Drow to the Dwarves, but it's more complicated than that. I'm wondering what would happen if the Grey Dwarves actually won out, and put forth a worthy candidate for the Throne.
If not for the preternatural ability of Dwarves to hold a grudge, it could actually lead to a 'healing' of the Dwarven race.
Surly Dwarf
03-23-06, 12:00 AM From what I 've read of Iltkazar in sourcebooks it's not strong enough to take an interest in the rest of Shanatar, they can only really hold what they have.
I think currently the enemies of Shield, Gold and Grey dwarves in Shanatar would be too numerous and strong to conquer.
A new king of Shanatar is possible, who though?
Krash
03-23-06, 01:18 AM Iltkazar has its own problems at the moment which prevent it from taking a pro-active role in the conflict. Also, one has to wonder on their thoughts re allying with their gold dwarven cousins - just what do the gold dwarves want out of this? And what will the shield dwarves of Iltkazar lose in the process? To some conservative, hidebound shield dwarves, the gold dwarves may be considered just as much of a threat as the duergar.

-- George Krashos
Surly Dwarf
03-24-06, 03:06 AM Theres not really much said about interaction between Shield and Gold dwarves as I recall. Shields think of Golds as arrogant and Golds think of Shields as degenerates.I find the Gold dwarves living amongst the Shields in the northern strongholds as rather strange myself, unless they are the troublemakers and exiles from the rift.
Does anyone know what the capital of Delzoun was? It was none of the current strongholds, they were just fortresses. In all the FR lore I have read on dwarves and the north there is no mention of a capital. I suppose it still lies in the Fardrimm untouched, possibly because King Delzoun still walks as an undead thing there.
Tergiver
03-25-06, 02:49 PM In Underdark , the population of Iltkazar is listed as 78% shield dwarf and 9% gold dwarf - with gnomes and a few humans mostly rounding things out. Drizzt's Guide didn't mention gold dwarves, but this worked pretty well for me since I had already defined a portal between the Great Rift and the Kazardaern outpost, that the gold dwarves had created "recently" to get to Shanatar and aid Iltkazar.

I think that in general the dwarves of Iltkazar are too insular to overextend themselves in assisting the gold dwarf crusade. I believe they would welcome the help, but they know which way the weight of history is going. Iltkazar did not get to be the last kingdom of Deep Shanatar through risk-taking.

In my game, the last outpost of Kazardaern is still used because Iltkazar is too heavily warded for new portals, and because of some metal caches farmed in the area. Also, humans fit well into the innkeeper/tavernkeeper/chef niche in dwarven and gnomish culture.
ClobberinTime
03-27-06, 06:04 PM Did anyone else think it strange that the only kingdom of Shanatar that has been retaken by the Gold Dwarves is Barakamordin (not sure if this is spelled right) the ancestral home of clan Duergar?

The crusade is still a ways away from Iltkazar right, Iltkazar is under the Cloud Peaks (between Amn and Western Heartlands) and the Golds have only made it so far as the lake of steam/cloven mountains before they are at loggerheads with the Gray's.

On this note though, the one thing surface access brings is food, which means more men, which over time means the Gold Dwarves win. I mean there are more Gold Dwarves in the Rift than there Dwarves of any type in all of the rest of Faerun added together.

If anything the Gold Dwarves have gotten soft and needed to toughen up some before they could punch through. Lets face it they haven't faced a lifetime of conflict and war like the Shield Dwarves of the North have.
ericlboyd
03-27-06, 06:40 PM Perhaps the duergar have begun supplementing their numbers using long-forgotten techniques last seen in the Spawn Wars ...

--Eric
ClobberinTime
03-27-06, 08:24 PM Not remembering the Spawn Wars but being able to draw an inference when I can, Could they be augmenting themselves using DeepSpawn. Either directly on themselves or to create dinner.

Kind of give a new meaning to 'Thunder Twin' The Grays have the 'Deep Sextuplets'.

:) couldn't resist that last one.
ericlboyd
03-27-06, 08:59 PM Yes, the Spawn Wars enabled the dwarves of ancient Shanatar to supplement their numbers by feeding some of their own to deepspawn and then building armies of 'spawn. This led to a two-class society that nearly destroyed Shanatar. Details are sprinkled through DDGttU.

--Eric
Demetrios
03-28-06, 03:40 AM Did anyone else think it strange that the only kingdom of Shanatar that has been retaken by the Gold Dwarves is Barakamordin (not sure if this is spelled right) the ancestral home of clan Duergar?

The crusade is still a ways away from Iltkazar right, Iltkazar is under the Cloud Peaks (between Amn and Western Heartlands) and the Golds have only made it so far as the lake of steam/cloven mountains before they are at loggerheads with the Gray's.

Iltkazar isn't under the Cloud Peaks, it's under the Omlarandin Mountains, near Saradush in eastern Tethyr. Iltkazar's borders run right along Barakuir's. So the gold dwarves are already right next to Iltkazar, as are the duergar's beholder allies to the south. To get at each other, the beholders and gold dwarves have to cross territory claimed by Iltkazar, which is what sparked my original question...
BrianCritchley
03-28-06, 04:00 AM one thing about this conflcit is that while the gold dwarves have numbers in reality CR etc isn't gonna be a factor, thus the grey dwarves are gonna have advantages there. I mean they can each turn invisable once a day. that's a HUGE advantage in capacity for ambushes right there.
Tergiver
03-28-06, 10:18 AM Did anyone else think it strange that the only kingdom of Shanatar that has been retaken by the Gold Dwarves is Barakamordin (not sure if this is spelled right) the ancestral home of clan Duergar?

I hadn't thought about it, but it's a good point. The Duregar are probably reluctant to spend too much time close to the Illithid, since this is how the whole mess started.

It makes you wonder if one motivation for the Crusade is investigating the fall of Clan Duregar and finding a way to deal with the "duregar problem" one way or another.

BTW - Clan Duregar's kingdom in Deep Shanatar was "Barakuir". Barakmordin is a fortified temple to Torm, Tyr, and Ilmater (the Triad) west of Saradush.
ClobberinTime
03-28-06, 04:32 PM Olmlarindian mountains, aren't those the ones they got rid of on the new map. I thought they were closer to Mir???
Demetrios
03-28-06, 04:43 PM Olmlarindian mountains, aren't those the ones they got rid of on the new map. I thought they were closer to Mir???

Nope, they are right there on the FRCS map, right next to Saradush where they've always been. But the area just to the north of them (the Deepwash/Snowflake region) was indeed an area that got quite distorted from before...
ClobberinTime
03-28-06, 09:21 PM Wait a minute those are the ones north of the Kuldin peaks? Is that part of the Snowflake mountains now? I still can't keep track of all of these fancy changes, lordy lordy lordy me!
cgarsmokr
03-29-06, 01:15 AM Theres not really much said about interaction between Shield and Gold dwarves as I recall. Shields think of Golds as arrogant and Golds think of Shields as degenerates.I find the Gold dwarves living amongst the Shields in the northern strongholds as rather strange myself, unless they are the troublemakers and exiles from the rift.
Does anyone know what the capital of Delzoun was? It was none of the current strongholds, they were just fortresses. In all the FR lore I have read on dwarves and the north there is no mention of a capital. I suppose it still lies in the Fardrimm untouched, possibly because King Delzoun still walks as an undead thing there.You may be able to find what the capital was in the old Netherese boxed set.
cgarsmokr
03-29-06, 01:24 AM Eric, i notice your location is Ann Arbor. Are you a UofM guy?
Demetrios
03-29-06, 05:29 AM Wait a minute those are the ones north of the Kuldin peaks? Is that part of the Snowflake mountains now? I still can't keep track of all of these fancy changes, lordy lordy lordy me!

No, the Kuldins are the ones that got absorbed into the Snowflakes. The Ormlorandins made it through more or less unscathed.
justanotherdwarf
03-29-06, 10:59 AM this is a really good time to be in a dwarven mercenarie company or even a gnomish one lots of work hehe..does the rpga ever do a grand scale event like this war?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Demetrios 03-16-06, 03:25 PM	Since this plot thread has been hanging for quite a while, it was nice to get an update on the Reclamation of Shanatar in Power of Faerun. But the update didn't mention one important matter - what are the shield dwarves of Iltkazar doing at this point? This war is being fought on their very doorstep, if not within the accepted boundries of their kingdom (since the gold dwarves in Barakuir and the beholders of Ilt'zokir are on opposite sides of Iltkazar). So - are they doing nothing (as their government is paralyzed because their king has "gone missing")? Are they defending their own area from all invaders? Are they helping the gold dwarves?
Surly Dwarf 03-21-06, 11:57 PM	I recall reading in an interview with the writer of Drizzts Guide to the Underdark that he wanted to do a campaign on Shanatar. The throne is in dwarf hands and waiting for a king, but unless it's written about in a novel or campaign I wouldn't expect any reborn Shanatar. I expect that the Gold Dwarves will beat the Duergar in the long run but they will not be able to hold their ground unless they just concentrate on one Kingdom. I don't find it too strange that the Shield Dwarves aren't getting too worked up about Shanatar as they are only just consolidating their gains in the North.
BrianCritchley 03-22-06, 03:24 AM	but unless it's written about in a novel or campaign I wouldn't expect any reborn Shanatar. I'd expect a novel more. that being said it wouldn't shock me if it happened. it seems that WOTC is slowly ressurecting a lot of the older empires.
nbnmare 03-22-06, 07:12 AM	Who knows, perhaps all these ancient empires returning is more than mere coincidence. For example, there could be some extremely secretive figure carefully pulling the strings, trying to return the Realms to its "glory days" for his or her own mysterious reasons...
DM_Dracophile 03-22-06, 07:22 AM	I've always been fascinated by the Duergar. Some view them as the equivalent of Drow to the Dwarves, but it's more complicated than that. I'm wondering what would happen if the Grey Dwarves actually won out, and put forth a worthy candidate for the Throne. If not for the preternatural ability of Dwarves to hold a grudge, it could actually lead to a 'healing' of the Dwarven race.
Surly Dwarf 03-23-06, 12:00 AM	From what I 've read of Iltkazar in sourcebooks it's not strong enough to take an interest in the rest of Shanatar, they can only really hold what they have. I think currently the enemies of Shield, Gold and Grey dwarves in Shanatar would be too numerous and strong to conquer. A new king of Shanatar is possible, who though?
Krash 03-23-06, 01:18 AM	Iltkazar has its own problems at the moment which prevent it from taking a pro-active role in the conflict. Also, one has to wonder on their thoughts re allying with their gold dwarven cousins - just what do the gold dwarves want out of this? And what will the shield dwarves of Iltkazar lose in the process? To some conservative, hidebound shield dwarves, the gold dwarves may be considered just as much of a threat as the duergar. -- George Krashos
Surly Dwarf 03-24-06, 03:06 AM	Theres not really much said about interaction between Shield and Gold dwarves as I recall. Shields think of Golds as arrogant and Golds think of Shields as degenerates.I find the Gold dwarves living amongst the Shields in the northern strongholds as rather strange myself, unless they are the troublemakers and exiles from the rift. Does anyone know what the capital of Delzoun was? It was none of the current strongholds, they were just fortresses. In all the FR lore I have read on dwarves and the north there is no mention of a capital. I suppose it still lies in the Fardrimm untouched, possibly because King Delzoun still walks as an undead thing there.
Tergiver 03-25-06, 02:49 PM	In Underdark , the population of Iltkazar is listed as 78% shield dwarf and 9% gold dwarf - with gnomes and a few humans mostly rounding things out. Drizzt's Guide didn't mention gold dwarves, but this worked pretty well for me since I had already defined a portal between the Great Rift and the Kazardaern outpost, that the gold dwarves had created "recently" to get to Shanatar and aid Iltkazar. I think that in general the dwarves of Iltkazar are too insular to overextend themselves in assisting the gold dwarf crusade. I believe they would welcome the help, but they know which way the weight of history is going. Iltkazar did not get to be the last kingdom of Deep Shanatar through risk-taking. In my game, the last outpost of Kazardaern is still used because Iltkazar is too heavily warded for new portals, and because of some metal caches farmed in the area. Also, humans fit well into the innkeeper/tavernkeeper/chef niche in dwarven and gnomish culture.
ClobberinTime 03-27-06, 06:04 PM	Did anyone else think it strange that the only kingdom of Shanatar that has been retaken by the Gold Dwarves is Barakamordin (not sure if this is spelled right) the ancestral home of clan Duergar? The crusade is still a ways away from Iltkazar right, Iltkazar is under the Cloud Peaks (between Amn and Western Heartlands) and the Golds have only made it so far as the lake of steam/cloven mountains before they are at loggerheads with the Gray's. On this note though, the one thing surface access brings is food, which means more men, which over time means the Gold Dwarves win. I mean there are more Gold Dwarves in the Rift than there Dwarves of any type in all of the rest of Faerun added together. If anything the Gold Dwarves have gotten soft and needed to toughen up some before they could punch through. Lets face it they haven't faced a lifetime of conflict and war like the Shield Dwarves of the North have.
ericlboyd 03-27-06, 06:40 PM	Perhaps the duergar have begun supplementing their numbers using long-forgotten techniques last seen in the Spawn Wars ... --Eric
ClobberinTime 03-27-06, 08:24 PM	Not remembering the Spawn Wars but being able to draw an inference when I can, Could they be augmenting themselves using DeepSpawn. Either directly on themselves or to create dinner. Kind of give a new meaning to 'Thunder Twin' The Grays have the 'Deep Sextuplets'. :) couldn't resist that last one.
ericlboyd 03-27-06, 08:59 PM	Yes, the Spawn Wars enabled the dwarves of ancient Shanatar to supplement their numbers by feeding some of their own to deepspawn and then building armies of 'spawn. This led to a two-class society that nearly destroyed Shanatar. Details are sprinkled through DDGttU. --Eric
Demetrios 03-28-06, 03:40 AM	Did anyone else think it strange that the only kingdom of Shanatar that has been retaken by the Gold Dwarves is Barakamordin (not sure if this is spelled right) the ancestral home of clan Duergar? The crusade is still a ways away from Iltkazar right, Iltkazar is under the Cloud Peaks (between Amn and Western Heartlands) and the Golds have only made it so far as the lake of steam/cloven mountains before they are at loggerheads with the Gray's. Iltkazar isn't under the Cloud Peaks, it's under the Omlarandin Mountains, near Saradush in eastern Tethyr. Iltkazar's borders run right along Barakuir's. So the gold dwarves are already right next to Iltkazar, as are the duergar's beholder allies to the south. To get at each other, the beholders and gold dwarves have to cross territory claimed by Iltkazar, which is what sparked my original question...
BrianCritchley 03-28-06, 04:00 AM	one thing about this conflcit is that while the gold dwarves have numbers in reality CR etc isn't gonna be a factor, thus the grey dwarves are gonna have advantages there. I mean they can each turn invisable once a day. that's a HUGE advantage in capacity for ambushes right there.
Tergiver 03-28-06, 10:18 AM	Did anyone else think it strange that the only kingdom of Shanatar that has been retaken by the Gold Dwarves is Barakamordin (not sure if this is spelled right) the ancestral home of clan Duergar? I hadn't thought about it, but it's a good point. The Duregar are probably reluctant to spend too much time close to the Illithid, since this is how the whole mess started. It makes you wonder if one motivation for the Crusade is investigating the fall of Clan Duregar and finding a way to deal with the "duregar problem" one way or another. BTW - Clan Duregar's kingdom in Deep Shanatar was "Barakuir". Barakmordin is a fortified temple to Torm, Tyr, and Ilmater (the Triad) west of Saradush.
ClobberinTime 03-28-06, 04:32 PM	Olmlarindian mountains, aren't those the ones they got rid of on the new map. I thought they were closer to Mir???
Demetrios 03-28-06, 04:43 PM	Olmlarindian mountains, aren't those the ones they got rid of on the new map. I thought they were closer to Mir??? Nope, they are right there on the FRCS map, right next to Saradush where they've always been. But the area just to the north of them (the Deepwash/Snowflake region) was indeed an area that got quite distorted from before...
ClobberinTime 03-28-06, 09:21 PM	Wait a minute those are the ones north of the Kuldin peaks? Is that part of the Snowflake mountains now? I still can't keep track of all of these fancy changes, lordy lordy lordy me!
cgarsmokr 03-29-06, 01:15 AM	Theres not really much said about interaction between Shield and Gold dwarves as I recall. Shields think of Golds as arrogant and Golds think of Shields as degenerates.I find the Gold dwarves living amongst the Shields in the northern strongholds as rather strange myself, unless they are the troublemakers and exiles from the rift. Does anyone know what the capital of Delzoun was? It was none of the current strongholds, they were just fortresses. In all the FR lore I have read on dwarves and the north there is no mention of a capital. I suppose it still lies in the Fardrimm untouched, possibly because King Delzoun still walks as an undead thing there.You may be able to find what the capital was in the old Netherese boxed set.
cgarsmokr 03-29-06, 01:24 AM	Eric, i notice your location is Ann Arbor. Are you a UofM guy?
Demetrios 03-29-06, 05:29 AM	Wait a minute those are the ones north of the Kuldin peaks? Is that part of the Snowflake mountains now? I still can't keep track of all of these fancy changes, lordy lordy lordy me! No, the Kuldins are the ones that got absorbed into the Snowflakes. The Ormlorandins made it through more or less unscathed.
justanotherdwarf 03-29-06, 10:59 AM	this is a really good time to be in a dwarven mercenarie company or even a gnomish one lots of work hehe..does the rpga ever do a grand scale event like this war?