Incursion in Fearun and my campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Incursion in Fearun and my campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Prendiloriasslyth
07-13-03, 03:17 PM Hey everyone,

I was planning on using the recently released Incursion campaign option in my own campaign, but I had a few questions that I couldn't come up with answers for myself, so I thought I'd see what the opinions of the board were.

I figure Cormyr would be an obvious target, so I'm sure I'll be having some of the higher-level activity take place there. My players are currently low-level, but nowhere near Cormyr at the moment
In the Dragon issue of Incursion, they give examples for the Cormyr/Dalelands area and the North/Silver Marches area. My idea involves a lot of activity in Thay during the mid-level and early high-level activity in the campaign. How do you think the magic-abundant kingdom of Thay would figure into all of this, and how do you think the invading Githyanki would handle them? I was thinking something along the lines of Thay being an important location in their attack because it's closer to my party's location.

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks in advance guys!
Prendiloriasslyth
07-13-03, 07:22 PM Yikes! No one?

*bump*

No one has any idea what the invading Githyanki would do with a magic-rich nation like Thay?
Zeddicus_Ralh
07-13-03, 07:28 PM i guess ever1 jus hates u? or they dont care, or sumthin...
Dargoth
07-13-03, 07:55 PM I wouldnt use Thay

The Red Wizards would chop the Giuthyanki up into dog meat

Especially as theres no higher than 16th level Githyanki (other than the Lich Queen)

Interesting plot option

*The Dead god the Githyanki built there city on in the Astral plane is actually the lost deity the Monks of the Old Order used to worship
Purple Dragon Knight
07-13-03, 09:01 PM I wouldn't use the Incursion scenario into the Realms... at all.

IMO, the Githyanki premise is not suited to FR's unique cosmology. Within our 3E Realms, the Astral plane is no more the endless void we used to know. They are merely links between Toril and each FR Outer Plane.

James Wyatt might decide to expand on the setup of the Astral plane when he writes the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms (Rich Baker told us 12 pages out of that book would be devoted to the FR's unique tree cosmology), but until then, travel within the Astral seems to be severely limited. Although I'd like some travel methods between "the tree branches - i.e. the Astral links - be devised by James, I also hope that he will make it slightly difficult to achieve. Huge astral ships landing on Faerūn, as cool as it may be for some of you, is not what I wish for the Realms...
Mirtek
07-13-03, 09:11 PM Actually i have several problems with Incursion, the main ones are

Why did the Lichqueen lose her divinity? She already was a demigoddess in 2e
Why doesn't a Wiz25 with +43 Spellcraft Epic Spellcasting?
After her dead all Githyanki lose their ability to plane shift. Why? How is the live or dead of the lich queen related to the natural plane shift ability of the Githyanki? That's the same as if saying that if Elminster dies, all humans lose their extra feat.

Well, the answer to the first and second question is most likely: Because if she would still be a goddess or have epic spellcasting, the PCs wouldn't have any chance to defeat her.

But the third question still troubles me. OK, it seem to be meant to explain the end of the invasion and trap the Githyanki on the prime. But only high level Githyanki have this ability and the vast majority of the invaders would be trapped on the prime anyway. The few high level Githyanki escaping wouldn't even be noticed among the mass of stranded invaders.
Green Giant
07-13-03, 11:53 PM I always figured that if the githyanki invaded Faerun, they would hit Thay first or be on top of their list. The place would be a tough nut to crack but is perfect to launch military campaigns against other nations. It has the plateau to protect it, the anti-scrying shield, and the magical mild weather makes it a breadbasket of the East. Although there are no high level githyanki (except renegades) to go one on one with the tyrants of Thay, they have the advantage of almos limitless numbers, militaristic society, draconic allies and a leader that rules with an iron fist. Meanwhile Thay has no natural leader except for Szass Tam but who wants to bet he would be the first to be the target of an assassination attempt(s), an army that is disorganized, and an anti-scrying shield that would make it difficult for the Red Wizards to detect githyanki invading (the githyanki could use their astral ships as aerial observation posts).

Another on the list of first targets would be Halruaa which has almost the same natural defensive walls.:D
sanishiver
07-14-03, 04:17 AM Hello Prendiloriasslyth,

I’m going to run a modified form of Incursion in my FR campaign once my PC’s hit Epic Levels. I’ve posted some of my campaign ideas over on THIS THREAD (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54923) if you’d like to take a look.

Anyway, My first bit of advice would be to never, ever let something like Cosmology get in the way of a good campaign idea. Really, unless your players are continuity nuts and more interested in meta-game thinking than Role Playing, you’ve got ZERO to worry about there. FWIW, I decided some time ago to allow for what I call the “Deep Astral” to exist in my FR campaign cosmology –which is a place where the Astral Void from many cosmologies overlaps, and thus, where the Githyanki call home.

That, and the fact that there are several as yet unexplored continents means I see no reason why the Githyanki couldn’t originate from somewhere on Toril.

Which leads me to another bit of advice: Don’t limit yourself to just what you know about the setting! ;)

Further, unless you’ve already established that specific 2E facts pertaining to the Githyanki are correct, no need to worry about the Lich Queen’s power level in 2E. I’m planning on making her an Epic Level NPC for incursion, so she’s at the necessary level to be a challenge to my PC’s. I really wouldn’t worry about why she’s not “Epic” just yet (particularly if such would make her overpowered in comparison to your PC’s).

Which would be my last bit of advice: Don't let the weight of all the old sourcebooks and modules drag your campaign down into a sea of unanswered questions. What came before doesn't matter if it isn't already established in your campaign.

As to how Thay might respond, well, I really don’t know. Lot’s of variables there. I suppose the Lich Queen might make a temporary alliance with one or more Zulkiirs to secure their allegiance (or at the very least non-interference), while the invasion takes place. But I suppose an even more important question is what, in your version of the adventure, are the Githyanki seeking? Do the Thayan’s have any idea what it is? What will they do if they learn about it? Will the Githyanki need the help of other nations to bring Thay down?

Oh, and one more thing: HAVE FUN! :angel:

:cool:
Prendiloriasslyth
07-15-03, 07:39 PM Moses smell the roses! It's been a long time since I checked up on the board...looks like I have a lot of posts to answer to. I'll take the answers one at a time.

1. I don't know anything about the 2ed Litch-Queen, and as far as I'm concerned that's irrelivent...I'm running a 3ed campaign and I've been given the vast material to work with.

2. The explanation given for the Gith not being able to come to the material world after her death is because she's the only Gith in her society that can cast Gate so that the forces can come through en mass.

3. That's exactly right, I don't have to use the Toril cosmology if I don't want. I don't really like the Realm's cosmology, and SKR said himself that it was only offered as an alternative to the Great Wheel, should people not want to use that. I myself don't entirely agree with the Realms tree or the great wheel, so I just use a cosmology that makes sense to myself and works for my campaign.

4. I myself would also be running a modified version of it. I certainly won't be using the entire setup as given in the three issues of those magazines, but I'll be using the ideas of the Githyanki's military setup and such. I also agree with Green Giant in that Thay would be a top target. Halruaa didn't enter my thoughts, but they are so far south that the Gith may attack them towards the end after they have amassed enough land, perhaps with the resources they get from a conquered Thay.

Any more ideas or thoughts anyone? Perhaps if anyone is running an incursion or planning to, we could pool ideas and resources as a DM effort?
Azzadar
07-15-03, 08:09 PM I thought about having the Lich Queen form an Alliance with Zsazz Tam. Legions of githyanki, undead, gnolls and Red Wizards is a scary sight. Maybe Aznar Thrul, who opposes Zsazz Tam, could help the heroes in some way. I think the Incursion scenario is cool. Run with it and have fun.
Mr. VanderMeer
07-16-03, 10:42 AM I myself am going to use Incursion in a homebrew setting.

I agree that some of the questions asked here like:

Why did the Lichqueen lose her divinity? She already was a demigoddess in 2e

Why doesn't a Wiz25 with +43 Spellcraft Epic Spellcasting?

After her dead all Githyanki lose their ability to plane shift. Why? How is the live or dead of the lich queen related to the natural plane shift ability of the Githyanki? That's the same as if saying that if Elminster dies, all humans lose their extra feat.

are more or less details that are easily solved.

My advise is, run the invasion however you see fit. I think Incursion in FR is the most difficult etting to choose, but you'll manage.
Prendiloriasslyth
07-16-03, 12:05 PM I don't know much about other campaign settings but I agree that it's tough in FR, mainly because, IMO, the various kingdoms don't have much of an alliance between eachother, and because of the really powerful people like Elminster, Khelbun, Simbul, etc. And of course you have to figure that evil powerful NPC's would be opposed to some force taking them over too.

But as with all personal campaign aspects, it's always how you see fit. I was just wondering what some ideas were.
Alegron Blackwell
07-17-03, 09:22 AM I currently have it running, but I changed some of the Githyanki's society's hang ups! I increased the lich Queen to include epic abilities, The FR's lich's powers and abilities from the monsters of the frogotten Realms, and gave her 5 levels of the archmage class. She waits till the Githyanki reach 18th level instead of 16th and she has a Kr'y'izoth and Tl'a'ikith's that are epic levels that are completely loyal to her ( I assume that before she came into power and started draining life forces of her servants that there must have been a few epic level Githyanki) that are her generals! I changed the rule from 2ed. That once you left the Astral plane that you instantly changed to your "true" age...I figured that no civilization could provide enough potions and spells to counter all those effects. This kept my higher level Githyanki from turning into dust once they step through the gate. Unfortunatley their red dragons couldn't become great wyrms the second they step through either :(! The Githyanki were able to form alliances with the Zhents and Thay, by promising those organizations land and frogotten magic (The Githyanki lich has ancient powerful magic in the forms of Spells and artifacts from the days before they were enslaved by the Mind Flayers.) All the these organizations need to provide is some troops(mostly undead), magical and clerical aid (potions, particularly healing and clerical assistance) and base of operations. The gith bribed or "convinced" high level political officials in other cities to keep from being involved in the war.

The first thing I had to do is get rid of El and the coming of the Shade and in the process El went to Hell! So I "borrowed" that idea and the rest of the chosen are busy fighting both the shade and Pherilm (sp). So pretty much the FR are involved in a world war! The Githyanki attack centered on Cormyr with devestating results.

Up to this point, Cormyr still stands, it's royalty evaded assasination attempts, thanks to the Pcs. currently the Pcs were sent away to attack supply routes and attempt to disrupt the alliance (evil nations are greedy and/or distrustful in nature). They really seem to like the campaign, because I've involved political intrigue but so far have been able to balance that with lots of fighting and they've already been involved in 2 mass battles, which went well. They're about to infiltrate a floating fortress and sabatoge it so it'll fall and destroy a large battallion of Gith. The Cormyr leaders feel that their people need hope and a falling fortress would boast morale. As the characters advance I'm going to slowly let them be away of the true plot of the queen and have them battle more powerful generals and slowly turn the tide of the war. They get help with the epic Npc being able to participate, I have them affect battles in different areas than the Pcs, I don't want them taking the spotlight from the Pcs. Eventually they will find and confront the queen, but we'll see if they make it that far.

As you can see I've been busy!:b:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prendiloriasslyth 07-13-03, 03:17 PM	Hey everyone, I was planning on using the recently released Incursion campaign option in my own campaign, but I had a few questions that I couldn't come up with answers for myself, so I thought I'd see what the opinions of the board were. I figure Cormyr would be an obvious target, so I'm sure I'll be having some of the higher-level activity take place there. My players are currently low-level, but nowhere near Cormyr at the moment In the Dragon issue of Incursion, they give examples for the Cormyr/Dalelands area and the North/Silver Marches area. My idea involves a lot of activity in Thay during the mid-level and early high-level activity in the campaign. How do you think the magic-abundant kingdom of Thay would figure into all of this, and how do you think the invading Githyanki would handle them? I was thinking something along the lines of Thay being an important location in their attack because it's closer to my party's location. I'd appreciate any help. Thanks in advance guys!
Prendiloriasslyth 07-13-03, 07:22 PM	Yikes! No one? bump No one has any idea what the invading Githyanki would do with a magic-rich nation like Thay?
Zeddicus_Ralh 07-13-03, 07:28 PM	i guess ever1 jus hates u? or they dont care, or sumthin...
Dargoth 07-13-03, 07:55 PM	I wouldnt use Thay The Red Wizards would chop the Giuthyanki up into dog meat Especially as theres no higher than 16th level Githyanki (other than the Lich Queen) Interesting plot option *The Dead god the Githyanki built there city on in the Astral plane is actually the lost deity the Monks of the Old Order used to worship
Purple Dragon Knight 07-13-03, 09:01 PM	I wouldn't use the Incursion scenario into the Realms... at all. IMO, the Githyanki premise is not suited to FR's unique cosmology. Within our 3E Realms, the Astral plane is no more the endless void we used to know. They are merely links between Toril and each FR Outer Plane. James Wyatt might decide to expand on the setup of the Astral plane when he writes the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms (Rich Baker told us 12 pages out of that book would be devoted to the FR's unique tree cosmology), but until then, travel within the Astral seems to be severely limited. Although I'd like some travel methods between "the tree branches - i.e. the Astral links - be devised by James, I also hope that he will make it slightly difficult to achieve. Huge astral ships landing on Faerūn, as cool as it may be for some of you, is not what I wish for the Realms...
Mirtek 07-13-03, 09:11 PM	Actually i have several problems with Incursion, the main ones are Why did the Lichqueen lose her divinity? She already was a demigoddess in 2e Why doesn't a Wiz25 with +43 Spellcraft Epic Spellcasting? After her dead all Githyanki lose their ability to plane shift. Why? How is the live or dead of the lich queen related to the natural plane shift ability of the Githyanki? That's the same as if saying that if Elminster dies, all humans lose their extra feat. Well, the answer to the first and second question is most likely: Because if she would still be a goddess or have epic spellcasting, the PCs wouldn't have any chance to defeat her. But the third question still troubles me. OK, it seem to be meant to explain the end of the invasion and trap the Githyanki on the prime. But only high level Githyanki have this ability and the vast majority of the invaders would be trapped on the prime anyway. The few high level Githyanki escaping wouldn't even be noticed among the mass of stranded invaders.
Green Giant 07-13-03, 11:53 PM	I always figured that if the githyanki invaded Faerun, they would hit Thay first or be on top of their list. The place would be a tough nut to crack but is perfect to launch military campaigns against other nations. It has the plateau to protect it, the anti-scrying shield, and the magical mild weather makes it a breadbasket of the East. Although there are no high level githyanki (except renegades) to go one on one with the tyrants of Thay, they have the advantage of almos limitless numbers, militaristic society, draconic allies and a leader that rules with an iron fist. Meanwhile Thay has no natural leader except for Szass Tam but who wants to bet he would be the first to be the target of an assassination attempt(s), an army that is disorganized, and an anti-scrying shield that would make it difficult for the Red Wizards to detect githyanki invading (the githyanki could use their astral ships as aerial observation posts). Another on the list of first targets would be Halruaa which has almost the same natural defensive walls.:D
sanishiver 07-14-03, 04:17 AM	Hello Prendiloriasslyth, I’m going to run a modified form of Incursion in my FR campaign once my PC’s hit Epic Levels. I’ve posted some of my campaign ideas over on THIS THREAD (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54923) if you’d like to take a look. Anyway, My first bit of advice would be to never, ever let something like Cosmology get in the way of a good campaign idea. Really, unless your players are continuity nuts and more interested in meta-game thinking than Role Playing, you’ve got ZERO to worry about there. FWIW, I decided some time ago to allow for what I call the “Deep Astral” to exist in my FR campaign cosmology –which is a place where the Astral Void from many cosmologies overlaps, and thus, where the Githyanki call home. That, and the fact that there are several as yet unexplored continents means I see no reason why the Githyanki couldn’t originate from somewhere on Toril. Which leads me to another bit of advice: Don’t limit yourself to just what you know about the setting! ;) Further, unless you’ve already established that specific 2E facts pertaining to the Githyanki are correct, no need to worry about the Lich Queen’s power level in 2E. I’m planning on making her an Epic Level NPC for incursion, so she’s at the necessary level to be a challenge to my PC’s. I really wouldn’t worry about why she’s not “Epic” just yet (particularly if such would make her overpowered in comparison to your PC’s). Which would be my last bit of advice: Don't let the weight of all the old sourcebooks and modules drag your campaign down into a sea of unanswered questions. What came before doesn't matter if it isn't already established in your campaign. As to how Thay might respond, well, I really don’t know. Lot’s of variables there. I suppose the Lich Queen might make a temporary alliance with one or more Zulkiirs to secure their allegiance (or at the very least non-interference), while the invasion takes place. But I suppose an even more important question is what, in your version of the adventure, are the Githyanki seeking? Do the Thayan’s have any idea what it is? What will they do if they learn about it? Will the Githyanki need the help of other nations to bring Thay down? Oh, and one more thing: HAVE FUN! :angel: :cool:
Prendiloriasslyth 07-15-03, 07:39 PM	Moses smell the roses! It's been a long time since I checked up on the board...looks like I have a lot of posts to answer to. I'll take the answers one at a time. 1. I don't know anything about the 2ed Litch-Queen, and as far as I'm concerned that's irrelivent...I'm running a 3ed campaign and I've been given the vast material to work with. 2. The explanation given for the Gith not being able to come to the material world after her death is because she's the only Gith in her society that can cast Gate so that the forces can come through en mass. 3. That's exactly right, I don't have to use the Toril cosmology if I don't want. I don't really like the Realm's cosmology, and SKR said himself that it was only offered as an alternative to the Great Wheel, should people not want to use that. I myself don't entirely agree with the Realms tree or the great wheel, so I just use a cosmology that makes sense to myself and works for my campaign. 4. I myself would also be running a modified version of it. I certainly won't be using the entire setup as given in the three issues of those magazines, but I'll be using the ideas of the Githyanki's military setup and such. I also agree with Green Giant in that Thay would be a top target. Halruaa didn't enter my thoughts, but they are so far south that the Gith may attack them towards the end after they have amassed enough land, perhaps with the resources they get from a conquered Thay. Any more ideas or thoughts anyone? Perhaps if anyone is running an incursion or planning to, we could pool ideas and resources as a DM effort?
Azzadar 07-15-03, 08:09 PM	I thought about having the Lich Queen form an Alliance with Zsazz Tam. Legions of githyanki, undead, gnolls and Red Wizards is a scary sight. Maybe Aznar Thrul, who opposes Zsazz Tam, could help the heroes in some way. I think the Incursion scenario is cool. Run with it and have fun.
Mr. VanderMeer 07-16-03, 10:42 AM	I myself am going to use Incursion in a homebrew setting. I agree that some of the questions asked here like: Why did the Lichqueen lose her divinity? She already was a demigoddess in 2e Why doesn't a Wiz25 with +43 Spellcraft Epic Spellcasting? After her dead all Githyanki lose their ability to plane shift. Why? How is the live or dead of the lich queen related to the natural plane shift ability of the Githyanki? That's the same as if saying that if Elminster dies, all humans lose their extra feat. are more or less details that are easily solved. My advise is, run the invasion however you see fit. I think Incursion in FR is the most difficult etting to choose, but you'll manage.
Prendiloriasslyth 07-16-03, 12:05 PM	I don't know much about other campaign settings but I agree that it's tough in FR, mainly because, IMO, the various kingdoms don't have much of an alliance between eachother, and because of the really powerful people like Elminster, Khelbun, Simbul, etc. And of course you have to figure that evil powerful NPC's would be opposed to some force taking them over too. But as with all personal campaign aspects, it's always how you see fit. I was just wondering what some ideas were.
Alegron Blackwell 07-17-03, 09:22 AM	I currently have it running, but I changed some of the Githyanki's society's hang ups! I increased the lich Queen to include epic abilities, The FR's lich's powers and abilities from the monsters of the frogotten Realms, and gave her 5 levels of the archmage class. She waits till the Githyanki reach 18th level instead of 16th and she has a Kr'y'izoth and Tl'a'ikith's that are epic levels that are completely loyal to her ( I assume that before she came into power and started draining life forces of her servants that there must have been a few epic level Githyanki) that are her generals! I changed the rule from 2ed. That once you left the Astral plane that you instantly changed to your "true" age...I figured that no civilization could provide enough potions and spells to counter all those effects. This kept my higher level Githyanki from turning into dust once they step through the gate. Unfortunatley their red dragons couldn't become great wyrms the second they step through either :(! The Githyanki were able to form alliances with the Zhents and Thay, by promising those organizations land and frogotten magic (The Githyanki lich has ancient powerful magic in the forms of Spells and artifacts from the days before they were enslaved by the Mind Flayers.) All the these organizations need to provide is some troops(mostly undead), magical and clerical aid (potions, particularly healing and clerical assistance) and base of operations. The gith bribed or "convinced" high level political officials in other cities to keep from being involved in the war. The first thing I had to do is get rid of El and the coming of the Shade and in the process El went to Hell! So I "borrowed" that idea and the rest of the chosen are busy fighting both the shade and Pherilm (sp). So pretty much the FR are involved in a world war! The Githyanki attack centered on Cormyr with devestating results. Up to this point, Cormyr still stands, it's royalty evaded assasination attempts, thanks to the Pcs. currently the Pcs were sent away to attack supply routes and attempt to disrupt the alliance (evil nations are greedy and/or distrustful in nature). They really seem to like the campaign, because I've involved political intrigue but so far have been able to balance that with lots of fighting and they've already been involved in 2 mass battles, which went well. They're about to infiltrate a floating fortress and sabatoge it so it'll fall and destroy a large battallion of Gith. The Cormyr leaders feel that their people need hope and a falling fortress would boast morale. As the characters advance I'm going to slowly let them be away of the true plot of the queen and have them battle more powerful generals and slowly turn the tide of the war. They get help with the epic Npc being able to participate, I have them affect battles in different areas than the Pcs, I don't want them taking the spotlight from the Pcs. Eventually they will find and confront the queen, but we'll see if they make it that far. As you can see I've been busy!:b: