Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Barmoz 06-04-04, 05:52 PM	I'm currently running a campaign where the forgotten realms are being invaded by the combined forces of the sorcerer kings of dark sun. I posted a thread on the dark sun forums asking for feedback, I thought I'd post here as well. In terms of size of armies, the dark sun forces are likely to be overmatched, however every person from that campaign setting has at least 1 psionic ability as well as higher starting stats, in addition they are led by incredibly powerful sorcerer kings themselves (ranging in level from 50 to 75, epic arcane casters and psionic manifesters, with thousands of years of experience as military generals), but they are sadly lacking in terms of equipment as Athas is a very metal scarce desert world. In my campaign, the iconic characters of the realms are bumped up in power relative to their published stats as I didn't feel they were nearly epic enough, particularly as my PC's have risen in level. Anyway, I'm trying to create a situation where things are relatively evenly balanced. I've eliminated divine intervention by having Ao restrict the role the dieties of the realms can take in the conflict, my RP justification for this is based around the sorcerer kings ability to grant clerical spells to their templars (warrior priests basically) and a fear of reality destroying conflit that might result from a war of gods and god-likes. My questions for the board are, what 10 (or so) targets would an invading army likely target for a simultaneous multi-front attack? The armies are going to be portal'd in, so geography isn't such a constraint. The overall strategy for the invasion plan is capture the key centers of the realms and move forth with their occupation once the most likely sources of major resistance are taken care of. I've got plans for Thay and Algorand, basically the Simbul fakes her own death in such a manner that it convinces thay she is no longer a threat, inspiring them to invade. When the Dark Sun invasion comes, they have to go through the thayan army to get to the forces of Algorand, at which point she will stage her return and be facing a much weakened invading force, as well as having witnessed major destruction among the forces of thay, and I've got plans for Shade as well. The shades with their time in the plane of shadow have become influenced by Rajaat (a major force in the dark sun world that was imprisoned by the sorcerer kings in a subset of the demiplane of shadow called the black (well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but it'll do for now). I'm happy to answer any questions, and I'm definitely open to constructive feedback on my concept, in addition to my question of invasion targets.
Board_Rider 06-06-04, 11:11 PM	This is a very interesting adventure concept and I think that I have a few ideas. I don't know what the size of your DS army is, the races within as well as mixture of races. I'll assume human fighters with their psion talent as well as mages and clerics being integrated as well. Here are some targets, in order of importance (to me), that could cripple Faerun quickly if done in a well timed manner. Anauroch---Empire of the Shadows Hitting this area hard and quickly removing / convincing the Shades will provide the DS army with centralized location that is easily defendable. The hot temperature, which is a minor concern to your army, makes any structured counterattacks both costly to the Faerun empires and difficult to plan. Monsters are available to champion your "cause". Zhents may work with you as well. Thay (your suggestion) or Waterdeep The Second most important task for your conquest is to either champion mercs or bring fear to those on Faerun. Either one of these opportune targets are iconic. I would lean towards Waterdeep for the simple reason that it may be a little easier to overtake. As well providing a port to open trade negotiations to any cowardly empires that may not wish to fall to your might. That is unless you wish to have everyone totally against your army..then go with Thay. You will need to have a more defensible post if that is the case. Unclaimed territory between Tethyr and The Shining Plains Hold a sizable force here hidden as best as possible to guard the area or to strike when needed. If Anauroch is under control and Waterdeep / Tyr has fallen this area will provide a good choke point if any of the southern empires try to enter on foot. I would also recommend placing units in The Ride to guard your eastern side. If all goes well this northwestern part of Faerun can be squeezed from within. Cormyr may be diffucult and we all know the famous mage in the Dales but hey you got sorcerer kings. I know thats a lot but there ya go. Good gaming.
mortellan 06-07-04, 01:27 AM	Don't forget Haluura-can't have all those mages running loose. Remote enough that rescuing forces would take a while to show up. Psionic talented war-like race bent on attacking another world, sounds much like the Githyanki incursion....hmmm maybe an alliance is in order?
Fredegar The White 06-07-04, 02:15 AM	Well since there are only 3 dragon kings remaining (Hammanu, Nibenay and.......? I am not adding the Dragon that rules the City by The Silt Sea what's his name again?) and it is unlikely that 1/6 of the army will have metal weapons the invasion is pretty much doomed....BUT the invasion could take place in lush tropical or other forested areas. Defilers could pretty much descimate all if they arrived in an enviroment like that. I say work your way from the south upwards. The North is full of large nations and allaiances that will respond to the attack immediately!
Board_Rider 06-07-04, 01:57 PM	I was thinking Haluura as well due to the fact that not much would happen to the DS arny once those wizards were taken care of because they have protection from the surrounding terrain. But on the point of going up from the south (which is why I didn't include Haluura ) is because of those empires that you mentioned Fredgar. If you strike quick, which is what is planned(?), then those empires can fall quickly while not being prepared for such a bizzare attack. It would take time to move an army north, leaving time for the empires to strengthen and prepare. If prepared, the DS army won't stand a chance because as you said (and I agree) they don't have sufficient weapons and armor to go against say....a legion of Purple Dragon Knights. But it does leave the question as to how the DS bone armor would handle a steel greatsword. The only good thing the DS army has going for it initially is psion talents and the fact a rusting grasp spell is no good. But in the end it all depends how the other nations are played.
Board_Rider 06-07-04, 03:10 PM	I also want to suggest, based on what Fredegar said, another idea. Instead of an outright attack set up the DS army in a lush and secretive area and proceed to build. Use the defilers and such to build a secure base camp. In this way your DS army can secretly gain strength by using Faerun resources (metal) and maybe getting monsters or evil groups to work along side them. This way the DS army will understand more of the Forgotten Realms geography and it's enemies. You could make a campaign out of this where PC's come across a couple of insect creatures (thri-kreen) doing a little scouting on some neighboring land. The PC's can then decide to investigate or try to warn the powers that be that something strange is going on in the land or area of <<insert name here>>. Can the PC's warn the empires of Faerun or will a noble king take is as word from "meddlesome adventuers"? It's your time and your table but thats an idea. HMMMM...
Barmoz 06-07-04, 04:07 PM	Great feedback, really appreciate the suggestions and comments. A bit more info on the campaign. It's actually a great deal broader than just the invasion itself. The PC's became aware of some strange happenings with missing caravans and shipments of weapons, investigation revealed no signs of struggles, no wreckage, and no brigands as potential subjects. A more thorough magical investigation uncovered some evidence of defiling magic having been involved. Then the PC's had to track down what that might mean, searching several well known libraries and talking to a number of magical scholars before finding a piece of information discussing defiling magic and Athas. Eventually the PC's came into contact with someone who was as close to a local expert as one could get, a character that had actually traveled to Athas. As part of their asking around process, they came to the attention of some of the sorcerer king's "sleeper agents" who failed in their attempt to assassinate the PC's and in turn revealed at least in broad terms, the invasion plan. Now they are in the process of alerting the powers that be in the realms, hopefully without causing any kind of major alarm. The PC's are in their 20's and are relatively well known so this wasn't that major of a challenge. The big picture is that the sorcerer kings are building towards this invasion, but that it's a long process for them, on the scale of at least a year, possibly two. I'm influenced by the Serpent War Saga by Raymond Feist in this, but a different set of PC's has been recruited and trained as spies, and sent to learn what they can of the army of the Sorcerer Kings. They're low level, brand new characters created for this part of the adventure. The plan is to have them work their way into the ranks, gain some strategic insight, and when the invasion comes, switch sides and help lead much of the defense as they would be the most familiar with the enemy forces. And there's a "man behind the man" element as well I think, involving the being that created the sorcerer kings who they betrayed and imprisoned, Rajaat. I'm thinking that perhaps Rajaat was the one who brought the existence of the realms to the sorcerer kings attention somehow (unknown to them of course) in the hopes that enough of them would be killed during the conflict that he could escape. I want to do some kind of tie-in with the shades for this part too, but I haven't got it all figured out yet. As far as the size of the armies, I'm not sure yet, I haven't sat down and reviewed my dark sun material for militia sizes of each of the city-states. I'm playing this as occuring prior to the Prism Pentad books, so there are actually at least 12 sorcerer kings that will be basically leading their own armies, each of them several steps above the individual iconics of the realms in power. The DS armies are considerably less well equipped, and they also have considerably fewer battle mages than say the armies of Thay. The reason is that the sorcerer kings tend to discourage the use of magic by anyone other than themselves. I do expect them to be better off than say the Horde army was, but they will likely be challenged by the scores of war wizards across the realms. Definitely interested in more suggestions, I'm really excited about this campaign, I've got all kinds of discrete pieces floating around in my head that I just don't know how to put together into a storyline yet, so this is a great help to me.
Monsoon28 06-08-04, 03:26 AM	My suggestion is to take advantage of terrain as much as possible. Fight in places where metal armor is a hindrance not an asset. Maybe even start in both Anauroch and the Hordelands, then work your way to have your forces meeting up in Damara. Metal weapons and even armour will be yours over time thanks to the spoils of war...with every dead soldier a resourse, every town and city a treasure trove! Avoid Jungles, Defilers may love 'em, but troops would be totally at a lost in such a foreign environment. The Elves/Halflings and Rangers/Druids would turn any Jungle or Forest into a potenial killing field. Remember also that you wont have the benefit of a navy, and consider the possibility of Dark Sun troops even having a phobia when confronted with so much water in one place (like the Sea of Fallen Stars). 2cp.
Barmoz 06-08-04, 06:39 PM	The jungle suggestion is an interesting one. I had actually thought about having one of a potential 3 prongs of the invasion start with Chult. and working it's way eastward and northward, expecting the first major resistance in Halruaa. My thinking was that the defiling effects during battles would render the natives at a huge disadvantage. Kind of an Agent Orange effect. The second prong, being the strongest of the three, would strike in Anauroch, against the shades. The third prong would start in the hordelands and progress into Thay and on to Aglarond. Once those three objectives are taken, the northeastern group could move southward to meet up with the army coming from halruaa, or eastward to reinforce the one starting from anauroch. The Anauroch group will split, with one group moving eastward towards waterdeep, and a second moving south into the currently weakened cormyr. This would allow an attack against Sembia, and if it goes poorly, they could be reinforced from the army in the Northeast. I expect Sembia to have a much stronger military, but they would still be hard pressed to defend on two fronts. This whole discussion could be academic, because the DS forces may never make it past the Shades, Halruaans, or Thayans. Especially if reinforced by other parts of the realms, the iconics, and with enough farwarning in place... which is all to be determined by the actions of the PCs. This is one of the things I think my players like the most, which is the true "save the realms" feel the adventure has, but at the same time it's not a matter of save them by killing the latest BBEG, it's a matter of subterfuge, investigation, and political roleplaying. Anyway, thanks again for all of the extremely helpful feedback and suggestions, feel free to tear apart my invasion plan, I fully admit that I lack the experience to develop a major invasion plan of a continent that the 3,000+ year old sorcerer kings of Dark Sun would have. Now a couple of other topics I'd like to bring up. Approximately how many "epic" arcane casters do you think could be found within the realms? I'm aware of the iconics, and even the less well published ones, but I'm at a loss for how many unknown 20+ casters might be found scattered between They, Halruaa, Nimbral, Shade, etc. Secondly, are there any iconic "generals" to be found in the realms? Like the war councils in the Wheel of Time series, where you get the impression that some people really are epic generals, not neccessarily combatants, but just have a mastery of tactics and engagement.
Board_Rider 06-08-04, 07:37 PM	I would suggest in leaving the iconics out of the battle, in the first phase anyway. As far as 20+ level generals and such if I wereyou I would just create a couple if you have the time. Ideally Cormyr would have a couple, maybe not two 20+, generals as well as a an epic mage. I believe there is something of a description in the FRCBook. As far as Thay is concerned I personally run with 3 ( 1 per alignment- good,evil,neutral) high mages that are epic-esque that kinda rule the area. I would say that each region that holds a sizable army would have at least a general figurehead but not neccesarily 20+. Your game though.