Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Questing GM 04-29-07, 12:11 AM	As someone who has only immersed himself into the FR setting during the 3.0 era, I have this difficulty in planning for FR campaigns is that sometimes the amount of Realmslore for just a particular region is so immense and sometimes obsure that i lose confidence in running the setting 'as it should be'. Even with the sourcebooks, there are so many little bits and pieces of 'unpublished' Realmslore that i am either not completely aware of at all or i don't know where to find the exact source. Do you think that FR is too big to explore to bring out its colors and flavors ? and another question to the sages here, how did you keep track and know your realmslore ?
Aseran 04-29-07, 03:59 AM	Not at all. It's not so much big as it is flexible. Somewhere in the Realms mythos you can find pretty much any sort of fantasy cliche adventure fodder you could ever want for a D&D game. The novel characters and stuff are only there to flesh it out more and to provide entertainment. FR is pretty much your setting to run rampant in; all the material existing is there as your toy. Whether you use it all or not is definitely up to you, and no DM us under obligation to take into account every tiny detail. Short answer: No.
Mr_Miscellany 04-29-07, 04:40 AM	I've been gaming in the setting since it first saw print. My advice is to limit yourself based on teh time you have. Focus on reading up on the region that your campaign will be in and learn as much about that region as you have time to read. Just don't forget to get all your basic DM planning done first. Another way to say this is if you are gaming in Cormyr, you don't really need to know what's going on in Melvaunt or even Urmlaspyr unless you as DM decide to send your campaing to those places. I would also strongly recommend you allow yourself leeway to paint the Realms as you see fit for your players and your campaign. While part of the point of gaming in the Realms is to, well, game in the Realms, it's even more important for DMs to put their stamp on the Realms...don't let your own creativity be stumped by Canon lore. Warp it, break it, reshape it as needed. Remember: if your players aren't focused on some aspect of the Realms, don't worry about detailing it later on and don't worry about even learning about it. Your ability to control things as a DM allows you to plan for what you yourself will need to know about the Realms. Good luck!
Francius 04-29-07, 10:58 AM	As someone who has only immersed himself into the FR setting during the 3.0 era, I have this difficulty in planning for FR campaigns is that sometimes the amount of Realmslore for just a particular region is so immense and sometimes obsure that i lose confidence in running the setting 'as it should be'. If you need to read one and only one product to start on a good (if not excellent) basis for the Realms world, I advise you to do so with the 2nd edition campaign setting. (http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/d/dungeonsDragons/roleplayingGames/wizardsOfTheCoast/aDAndD2/forgottenRealms/v5748btpy7mjk) It is better and more complete than the 3.0 edition campaign book and its format in presenting the lore of the world makes it a far more user friendly. Its chronological calendar is also better and bigger and the setting starts just after the time of troubles (1358 DR), meaning that you 'll have information on how some things were before they were altered by the years that followed up and since the pubblication of the 3.0 campaign book. The races are described more thoroughly and in elevated detail, classes' role inside the world are also given and the main book is easier to digest. Even if the detail is still there, it is however in the right dose and you'll actually need little more to add to it (if nothing) especially if you're intending to explore the regions of the Heartlands as a primary start. Then you'll be given additional DM info on how to turn the wheel of it all, and the book that explains you how to is short and comprehensive. Lastly, the whole package comes with a good-sized adventure and a detailed description of Shadowdale - a typical rural (yet one of a kind!) medieval village inside the Dalelands to start from or take as an example in creating something similar of your own. The only "problem" I see is that perhaps you'll need to refere to the 3.0 campaign and the Player's guide to Faerun afterall - but just to see some 3.5 game stats about NPCs, feats, races adjustments and magic. But that's it: you need nothing more. From the "world lore, history and info" viewpoint only, you just get the aforementioned 2nd edition campaign. Overall, to start running with a good sprint inside the Forgotten Realms world, the 2nd edition revised campaign setting is the mean to travel for me. You do not need tons and tons of books. Trust me. ;)
The Ubbergeek 04-29-07, 11:04 AM	No, the 3ed setting book is well-done, and most of all, you will give the boys headache in converting things. The 3,X books are not that bad. Advice - choose a well-known region and stick with it. Maybe one well-known by games, by examples the Sword Coast. Or in opposite, a less known and covered one, with the freedom to make things and not worries about canonicity.
Francius 04-29-07, 11:09 AM	No, the 3ed setting book is well-done, and most of all, you will give the boys headache in converting things. The 3,X books are not that bad. I did not say that the 3,X books are bad. I believe that the 2nd edition campaign setting is a better provider regarding world info, history, region lore and races description. It's also easier to read. I'm talking from personal experience. If anything, I had a lot more fun and an easier way with my DM job in reading it. And about the headache, I think you're exagerating. After one is done reading the 2nd edition book, he can pick up the stats for the 3.5 D&D game from the CS 3.0 and the PGtF. Simple as that.
Stigger 04-29-07, 11:22 AM	Well, the most simple answer to your worries is that its your game, do what you want with it, or pretty much what Mr. Miscellany said. If you want to get more familiar with the tone and flavor of the Realms, I'd recommend heading over the WotC free older edition downloads site and grabbing whatever looks interesting. Volo's Guides are always good though, lots of fluff, not much crunch, and some really interesting NPCs to get into that can spice up a campaign pretty quickly, and very easily. Unless you're gaming with FR veterens, they're not going to know the difference as to whether you're getting it 'right' or not, so learn together and have fun doing so. If they are vets... well, not sure why you're DM'ing really if they are, but if they start trying to 'lore' you do death, just give them the old standby of DM's Fiat and be done with them. ;) Good luck with it, and try to remember that its all about having fun, and that lore and fluff should never trump that. You have time to learn all the lore, and don't need it all at once. :)
Questing GM 04-29-07, 01:12 PM	Thanks for the input. But part of the reason of why i chose to play in FR is because the details of a particular locale is already well written somewhere. I love Realmslore for its depth which really relieves me of my creative duties. That is why i chose to run campaigns in regions that are well covered. I'm currently running one in the Silver Marches but had my eyes on the Dalelands, Cormyr and recently the Moonsea. The amount of lore for those regions alone is like opening a floodgate. I rather be looking for something that's been already done before (especially by authors who knows their FR stuff) and would avoid trying to reinvent the wheel. I don't mind trudging through the heaps of Realmslore but where should i start looking ? Novels ? The CK compendium ? The 2nd ed books ? Where else ?
Faraer 04-29-07, 04:07 PM	You answered your question. The Realms is too detailed for people who don't want the detail and nevertheless feel put off that it exists. As far as I'm concerned, 'as it should be' is getting the feel and the underlying dynamics right. The exact details are fairly trivial. Sticking to one region is good advice: you'll get your head around the material much quicker and likely provide a more authentic, local, lived-in setting than if you went for a Once Around the Realms-style globetrotting campaign. The sources are -- in-print (3rd Edition) sourcebooks -- out-of-print sourcebooks, available from second-hand game dealers or as PDFs from Paizo.com -- novels and short stories -- magazine articles in Dragon and Dungeon -- articles on Wizards.com and informal postings, mainly to REALMs-L and Candlekeep.com You usually want to start with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting or either the 1987 or 1993 versions (which share a lot of text). Read the Volo's Guide if there is one, a novel or two, and a couple of online bits, and you have the bulk of it. Choose a region and I'll give you a more detailed breakdown.
The Ubbergeek 04-29-07, 08:56 PM	Take the the current books; in this case, that will be better. Start anew, or you will get boggled maybe by rules differences.
CuttinCurt 04-29-07, 10:03 PM	Actually, the time of Troubles started in 1358DR the year of Shadows, not 1368DR. Just a quick correction for Francius If you need to read one and only one product to start on a good (if not excellent) basis for the Realms world, I advise you to do so with the 2nd edition campaign setting. It is better and more complete than the 3.0 edition campaign book and its format in presenting the lore of the world makes it a far more user friendly. Its chronological calendar is also better and bigger and the setting starts just after the time of troubles (1368 DR)
Faraer 04-29-07, 10:36 PM	Take the the current books; in this case, that will be better. Start anew, or you will get boggled maybe by rules differences.If you just want to use the current books, sure. If you're going to research in depth, I think order of publication will usually give the clearest picture, clarifying the confusing metanarrative of the progressive revelation and development of the ideas. Classes and levels are pretty much classes and levels; I don't see rules differences being much of a barrier except with spells and magic items.
Dielzen 04-29-07, 11:27 PM	IF you want Lore/History of a region or "group" then 2e is the place to be. Read all the relevant books in 2e (the major ones to your theme, not every book that has a paragraph on your topic) then go to 3e. 3e books tend to great at the "500+ yrs ago" and the "last 5 years" sections of time, but the area is the middle is best covered in 2e products.
Francius 04-30-07, 07:33 AM	Actually, the time of Troubles started in 1358DR the year of Shadows, not 1368DR. Yep. I put it down wrong in the text. I placed the number six instead of five in the date. I didn't realize it. :thinks:
Derren S. 04-30-07, 08:46 AM	Do you think that FR is too big to explore to bring out its colors and flavors ? Considering how many different flavors (countries/cultures and wilderness) exist in the FR, they are much too small.
Ramenth 04-30-07, 01:56 PM	As others have said; No. Some areas of The FRCS are the right size, but most are too shallow (In my mind, at least). Just remember, depending on the campain you're running, you don't necessarily need to know every detail of the setting. Players won't know all the deep back lore. Heck; Even the royalty probably wont.
boggler65 05-01-07, 05:55 PM	Considering how many different flavors (countries/cultures and wilderness) exist in the FR, they are much too small. This statement is quite true. I am right in the middle of my own campaign world, and geographically it is roughly 3 times as large as FR, or as our own world. In addition what FR really lacks is the same depth of coverage in maztica, kara-tur, and Zakhara. In addition to that there are like five whole continents that are "unknown."
The WarOverlord 05-01-07, 08:26 PM	As someone who has only immersed himself into the FR setting during the 3.0 era, I have this difficulty in planning for FR campaigns is that sometimes the amount of Realmslore for just a particular region is so immense and sometimes obsure that i lose confidence in running the setting 'as it should be'. Even with the sourcebooks, there are so many little bits and pieces of 'unpublished' Realmslore that i am either not completely aware of at all or i don't know where to find the exact source. Do you think that FR is too big to explore to bring out its colors and flavors ? and another question to the sages here, how did you keep track and know your realmslore ? If you can Find it, the Forgotten Realms Atlas by Karen Wynn Fonstad is a good Resource though it has nothing about the Isle of Baulder's Shipwreck or the "newlands" cause it is a little dated. As far as it being to big? No, but at the same time the areas you don't hear mcuh about are the Areas that your PCs might consider retiring to when they are tired, cause contrary to common belief there are every day mundane things going on even in the likes of Waterdeep and there are people that never pick up a sword, never see an Orc, or never do anything more then break there backs working from dawn to dusk in the fields even on Toril. (Nice to see there are "peaceful Areas" as in the ones you barely hear anything about, if any)
Francius 05-03-07, 03:42 PM	This statement is quite true. I am right in the middle of my own campaign world, and geographically it is roughly 3 times as large as FR, or as our own world. This means nothing. I am an architect and quite an expert in designing landmasses with my latest drawing programs. I could wake up too one morning and design a planet with some dry continents that is three times the size of our Earth and thus Abeir-Toril (since they are quite of the same size). However, the level of detail, depth, history and geographic elements of that setting of mine would not even match 1 out of 10,000 of the ones the Forgotten Realms possess. It's clear. Also realize that if you come out with the crazy opinion that the FR are small, then you'll probably say that the Eberron planet is lice - it is by almost 8000 miles smaller than the Forgotten Realms planet (Abeir-Toril). So what you wrote is not a valid argument to say that the FRealms are not big. What we were trying to explain to the OP is that although the Realms is a huge and infinite place, the material you need to read to get a good start is not overwhelming nor you need to know everything in order to venture inside its regions. In addition what FR really lacks is the same depth of coverage in maztica, kara-tur, and Zakhara. In addition to that there are like five whole continents that are "unknown." With this, I agree. In fact one of my complaints is that Maztica, Zakhara and Kara-Tur never saw light in the 3.5 Realms edition albeit that in the 2nd edition days quite some material was published for them - especially for Zakhara and Kara-Tur. I don't think that those continents need a whole amount of sourcebooks to be introduced in the current edition, though. Wotc needs to give us one 160 paged book for each one and we 'll get a nice start. They are already following this policy for the Eberron world. Just look at X'endrik and Sarlonna - each of them got a single 160 page sourcebook depicting its lore. Eventhough the FR are mostly Faerun, the other continents should not be neglected. They are as interesting and fun to explore as the classic one. I personally love Al-Qadim and Maztica.
Francius 05-03-07, 03:48 PM	...because contrary to common belief there are every day mundane things going on even in the likes of Waterdeep and there are people that never pick up a sword, never see an Orc, or never do anything more then break there backs working from dawn to dusk in the fields even on Toril. (Nice to see there are "peaceful Areas" as in the ones you barely hear anything about, if any) Nice piccy. We need to write more of this and throw it in the face of the "Forgotten Realms' folks are too powerful and near godly individuals run rampant everywhere" sayers. :thumbsup: :D
True_Atlantean 05-04-07, 06:52 AM	When I recently started my FR campaign after almost a decade of playing other things, I laid out my 2nd ed maps on the floor in the lounge room and began the process of choosing a new location for the type of campaign I wanted to run. I knew the flavour, I just needed an appropriate setting. FR is great because it has a bit of everything, but I can empathise with any new DM who sees the scope and feels a little overwhelmed. It is a very big place and has a lot of lore. It's easy to get lost in the details. My advice would be to limit the game (if possible, I don't know your style or that of your group, obviously) to a certain geographic area and then build up. Mine started in the Dalelands, and has now moved up to include Cormyr. It's jad the advantage of the PC's learning about the setting slowly, interacting with the major elements and feeling comfortable about Faerun. They've heard rumours about other places, like The Moonsea, Thay and Waterdeep, which have intrigued them and may set the stage for the next arm of the adventure. I'll let them decide where they want to go. I've also made use of the open spaces on the map as well. Not every forest or plain is detailed (nor should it be) and so you can place any sort of encounter (and I don't mean just combat) in any of these places. Good luck with your game! Let us know how it turns out. Incidently Francius, you'll be pleased to know that they have responded to the Dalelands very well because I've portrayed the agrarian lifestyle and the simpel, yet determined nature of the inhabitants. Wherever they go, they're finding people who aren't adventurers, and in Cormyr, the minset is such that people cn't understand why one would become an adventurer. They're now having to justify their chosen profession to NPC's and I'm having great fun in asking the pointed questions.
Francius 05-04-07, 04:17 PM	My advice would be to limit the game (if possible, I don't know your style or that of your group, obviously) to a certain geographic area and then build up. Mine started in the Dalelands, and has now moved up to include Cormyr. It's jad the advantage of the PC's learning about the setting slowly, interacting with the major elements and feeling comfortable about Faerun. They've heard rumours about other places, like The Moonsea, Thay and Waterdeep, which have intrigued them and may set the stage for the next arm of the adventure. I'll let them decide where they want to go. My campaign's history pretty much evolved in the same way as yours did. The party started at Shadowdale, with three of the PCs being natives of that village. Then their paths tooks them to Phlan, after which the trilogy of the Avatars modules dropped in and the players found themselves back to Shadowdale, Tantras and then briefly to Waterdeep. However Waterdeep is the farest place they have visited since after the Time of Troubles the fellowship got involved in Cormyr, Sembia, Anauroch and then in almost the entire area of the Moonsea. By the time the fourth chapter of the Campaign ended, and after the fall of the Black Network (the party was around 24th level and thus very powered), the PCs headed to enter Myth-Drannor. As you can see, our game too revolved mainly around the Heartlands: the Dalelands, Cormyr, Sembia, Anauroch and the Moonsea (I 'm not even counting in Waterdeep, as their staying there was very short). There's so much to do in the aforementioned regions alone, that a whole campaign can begin and end right in those same places from 1st lvl to 25th. Incidently Francius, you'll be pleased to know that they have responded to the Dalelands very well because I've portrayed the agrarian lifestyle and the simpel, yet determined nature of the inhabitants. Wherever they go, they're finding people who aren't adventurers, and in Cormyr, the minset is such that people cn't understand why one would become an adventurer. They're now having to justify their chosen profession to NPC's and I'm having great fun in asking the pointed questions. The Dalelands have always been the starting place for my various campaigns, and, as you, I myself like to run my game in a world where the folks lead simply lives, agricolture and crafting are the main jobs to make a living, magic is uncommon to rare, taking up the sword and going on adventures is the choice of few and the smell of freshly baked bread in the village's main road fills your nostrils. The Realms are so wide, detailed, grand and filled with an extensive number of powerful individuals that is amazing to see just how wrong are the people who claim that the Realms are just that. To me, Faerun is the ever-shapeable, verdant, rural and simplistically beatiful icon the Heartlands provide. Have a nice continuation in your adventures Atlantean.