Is Shining South worth it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Shining South worth it? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ksbsnowowl
11-10-04, 01:06 AM I've got a chance to get Shining South at a pretty decent discount, but I'm wanting to make sure that it is worth the money.

Although I do not currently run games in the Realms, my homebrew campaign often incorporates aspects of the Realms. I like a high-powered campaign, so I usually find the info useful. I currently own FRCS, Silver Marches, Magic of Faerun, and Unapproachable East (at least as far as Realms material goes). I'm just wanting to know if the book has good info within it, both for Realms games and as far as interesting aspects that could possibly be incorporated into other campaigns.

Also, I run 3.0 games, so I'm curious how much of the material I will have to retrofit (DR, Weapons, etc.) Is it likely to be too much of a hassle? Or can most of it be used without much conversion.
Kuje31
11-10-04, 01:22 AM It seems worth it to me. Shining South is one of the best 3/3.5 FR sourcebooks to date. There isn't a lot of stat blocks in it so there isn't really that much to change back to 3.0 since most of the named npc's are giving a short stat line of name, level, race, gender, deity, etc. Only the mini adventures have stat blocks.
The_Declaration
11-10-04, 06:50 AM I think it's totally worth it. It follows the format of Unapproachable East, but i don't why, i like it better. It's exciting to read through it, the artwork is one of the best FR got since the 3rd edition (Christopher Rush: :clap: ), there are good plots and the crunch is very appropriate.
Cunning Linguist
11-10-04, 12:10 PM I really love the book.. but I think they bit of more then they could chew. It covers a really big area, so it details somewhat less then UE, but still a great book.
Draco Strang
11-10-04, 12:24 PM Spend the money. It's definitely worth it.

I have the book and am very impressed with the layout, artwork, accuracy, and overall quality. Plus, I kind of like the new prestige classes, and the mini-adventures are really useful for those nights that you just haven't written anything.
Mystery Man
11-10-04, 01:58 PM Is it just me or does SS give sort of a high magic Conanesque but in a good way type feel?
ksbsnowowl
11-10-04, 04:05 PM Is it just me or does SS give sort of a high magic Conanesque but in a good way type feel?Can you explain this thought a little more? If it means what I think it means, then I'm really looking forward to this book!

I run a rare-magic campaign, where the power level of magic and items is the same as normal D&D/FR, but the prevalence and 'selection' of items is limited. (I put 'selection' in quotes because there really is no selection to speak of; the PC's will get powerful magic items from their foes, but they won't be able to just trade them in for the exact items they want at the local dime and magic store....'cause there aren't any.)

BTW, I decided to go ahead and order it. Yay for Overstock.com! The book with shipping was less than $19!
GothicDan
11-10-04, 11:58 PM Halruaa is THE most magically powerful society on Faerun, so it would differ significantly from the prevalence of magic in the games as you play them now. Consider it a little left-over piece of Netheril.
Imruphel
11-11-04, 09:09 AM Yes, it's a great book and definitely worth getting. IMO, Thomas Reid did an outstanding job which I have frankly come to expect from him. He seems an extremely competent and diligent author and designer to the point where I would happily buy any product (including a novel) with his name on it.

I've been really disappointed with a lot of WotC's later books (Complete Divine, MMII etc...) but, again IMO, they have yet to put a foot wrong with FR products and SS is one of the stronger ones.

My only complaint is that I wish the same colours had been used for the maps as were used in UE and FRCS. Oh, and I wish the maps had been posted in a gallery on the website (note to self: when are you going to fix the scanner?).
ksbsnowowl
11-11-04, 09:30 AM I've been really disappointed with a lot of WotC's later books (Complete Divine, MMII etc...) I must say that for the most part I enjoyed the MMII, but your comment about Complete Divine made me wonder.....how is SS on typos? I've heard horror stories about CD, but I haven't seen too many typos in the FR books. Is this also quality work in that regard?
Imruphel
11-11-04, 06:32 PM I must say that for the most part I enjoyed the MMII, but your comment about Complete Divine made me wonder.....how is SS on typos? I've heard horror stories about CD, but I haven't seen too many typos in the FR books. Is this also quality work in that regard?

I've generally found the FR books to be well-edited. I'm not sure if the editors are fans and thus better motivated to do a better job or if they are simply better editors. Then again, perhaps the writers/developers are turning over better quality manuscripts? Anyway, I'm not sure of the reasons but I do believe that the FR books are higher quality than the core line books.

PS: My dislike of MMII is based on the "breaking" of the rules for monsters that were established in MM and in the subsequent Dragon article that explained how to design monsters. In other words, just as we have seen "power creep" in the post-core books for players, MMII breaks certain rules so that there is power creep for monsters. Oh yeah, and the art sucked.... ;)
pyrognome
11-11-04, 08:30 PM on the typos- none that i noticed.
on the worth- it is a great book. i run an FR game, an Ebbie game, and a homebrew game. i use the FR supplements extensively in creating my world ie. spells, magic items, feats, etc. i found it to be very informative and the Shaar seemed like a really interesting place to run a low magic game.
Lady_Serpintine
11-12-04, 01:14 AM For those who are interested in the drow it is great it has some more information on them, neat magic items, and creatures...best of all to me they brought back Beguiler's.

^_^
Chosen Of Bhaal
11-12-04, 03:15 AM Is Halruaa detailed enough to be able to run a campaign there?

Like, is it good enough on its own to make me buy SS?
TomCosta
11-12-04, 09:53 AM I think Halruaa is easily detailed enough to run a campaign there, but so you can make a better judgement it has roughly as much detail, maybe a little more, as any of the regions detailed in Unapproachable East -- that is it has several paragraphs on each major geographic feature and each major city, details bits about culture, warfare, politics, history, etc., has at least 3 country-oriented prestige classes, details some intrigues and has even more plot hooks scattered within, has complete encounter tables, and of course details all the surrounding countrysides, so I'd say its a resounding yes. Mr. Reid did an amazing job.

All that said, if you plan a campaign in Halruaa and you haven't yet done so, read Elaine Cunningham's Counselors and Kings trilogy of books set there to get an even better feel for the country, culture, and history.
Ty
11-12-04, 10:32 AM This book is worth the cash to spend, even if you don't plan on setting your game in the Shining South. Its a simply wonderful book meeting a certain level of "crunch" with feats, prestige classes, and spells, in addition to having an enormous amount of "fluff" that really lets you capture the feel for the area with minimal effort or "on the fly" make-believe. However, it's also not so rigid in its applications that you can't tweak much of it for your own use.

As an aside to the designers, the sidebar prestige classes are absolutely wonderful. I've always been hesitant to use many of the "complete-series" prestige classes due to the fact they lacked any Realms-specific flavor or reference point. With the sidebars and its minor alterations, these are fantastic devices to allow players to adjust the PrC to the FR without losing something in translation.

*not so subtle hint that a web-enhancement for the "complete" PrC's already out there to receive the same treatment would be welcome*
Chosen Of Bhaal
11-12-04, 04:29 PM Ok thanks i'll try pick it up sometime, and i'll try get my hands on Counselors and Kings books aswell.

Thanks!
Shemeska the Marauder
11-13-04, 02:22 AM In a word: yes.

Two sourebooks in a row now have gone beyond my expectations, Serpent Kingdoms and now SS. This while the 'core' DnD books have been reliably underwhelming me to the point of not buying any of them lately. I don't own a single of the 'complete' series of books, the editing horror stories have been well founded of late in the 'core' books, and well, the Planar Handbook had maybe one or two good sections (those directly related to Planescape material) and the last 30 odd pages of the book were the worst designed concept in the history of 3e DnD. Touchstones. *shudder*

However FR has avoided any of these problems and has been consistently very very good quality in terms of the writing. One of the big things is the level of 'fluff' in the FR books versus the overwhelming mindless 'crunch' and power creep that panders to a style of DnD that I've long since pulled a Pilate and washed my hands of entirely.
Mystery Man
11-13-04, 09:12 AM the Planar Handbook had maybe one or two good sections (those directly related to Planescape material) and the last 30 odd pages of the book were the worst designed concept in the history of 3e DnD. Touchstones. *shudder*

Not to stray off topic...somewhere on Enworld is a multipager fight I started on how bad I thought the Planar Handbook was.

And yes, you simply can't go wrong with any of the FR books put out these days. I think they have the balance of material worked out finally.
WageSage
11-15-04, 05:05 AM For those of you who are thinking about this book. I have bought this book and it is missing 17 pages. All of the copies at our local store are missing these pages! It is missing several of the prestige classes and many of the spells.
Thasianas Galanodel
11-16-04, 10:43 AM For me, every single FR book of the 3/3.5 Ed is greatly worth the price they ask for. SHining south wasn't my particular favorite part of the realms ( I live in the cold and untamed lands of Québec. ( I a bit exagerating here, Montreal's not that cold but anyway back to topics ! :D ) So you guys and gals can easily imagine what's my favorite FR Regions is, ''The North'' :eek: :bow: :crazy: :drool: )

So back to the main of the topic, Shining South wasn't in my heart at the beginning but is trully at the end :bow: :ayyyy!: (I'm less geek than I may look like but still, I love those books! )
ksbsnowowl
11-16-04, 03:50 PM Well, Shining South just arrived today, and I must say that I am quite impressed. I wish it had some more new creatures in it (5 of the 12 creatures in the book are reprints of creatures from Monsters of Faerun, Deities and Demigods, and MMII - The updates are of no use to me, as I still play 3.0). Overall though, I'm quite pleased. It has a good mix of fluff and crunch. Although I've only gotten about an hour to read through it, I give it a thumbs up!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ksbsnowowl 11-10-04, 01:06 AM	I've got a chance to get Shining South at a pretty decent discount, but I'm wanting to make sure that it is worth the money. Although I do not currently run games in the Realms, my homebrew campaign often incorporates aspects of the Realms. I like a high-powered campaign, so I usually find the info useful. I currently own FRCS, Silver Marches, Magic of Faerun, and Unapproachable East (at least as far as Realms material goes). I'm just wanting to know if the book has good info within it, both for Realms games and as far as interesting aspects that could possibly be incorporated into other campaigns. Also, I run 3.0 games, so I'm curious how much of the material I will have to retrofit (DR, Weapons, etc.) Is it likely to be too much of a hassle? Or can most of it be used without much conversion.
Kuje31 11-10-04, 01:22 AM	It seems worth it to me. Shining South is one of the best 3/3.5 FR sourcebooks to date. There isn't a lot of stat blocks in it so there isn't really that much to change back to 3.0 since most of the named npc's are giving a short stat line of name, level, race, gender, deity, etc. Only the mini adventures have stat blocks.
The_Declaration 11-10-04, 06:50 AM	I think it's totally worth it. It follows the format of Unapproachable East, but i don't why, i like it better. It's exciting to read through it, the artwork is one of the best FR got since the 3rd edition (Christopher Rush: :clap: ), there are good plots and the crunch is very appropriate.
Cunning Linguist 11-10-04, 12:10 PM	I really love the book.. but I think they bit of more then they could chew. It covers a really big area, so it details somewhat less then UE, but still a great book.
Draco Strang 11-10-04, 12:24 PM	Spend the money. It's definitely worth it. I have the book and am very impressed with the layout, artwork, accuracy, and overall quality. Plus, I kind of like the new prestige classes, and the mini-adventures are really useful for those nights that you just haven't written anything.
Mystery Man 11-10-04, 01:58 PM	Is it just me or does SS give sort of a high magic Conanesque but in a good way type feel?
ksbsnowowl 11-10-04, 04:05 PM	Is it just me or does SS give sort of a high magic Conanesque but in a good way type feel?Can you explain this thought a little more? If it means what I think it means, then I'm really looking forward to this book! I run a rare-magic campaign, where the power level of magic and items is the same as normal D&D/FR, but the prevalence and 'selection' of items is limited. (I put 'selection' in quotes because there really is no selection to speak of; the PC's will get powerful magic items from their foes, but they won't be able to just trade them in for the exact items they want at the local dime and magic store....'cause there aren't any.) BTW, I decided to go ahead and order it. Yay for Overstock.com! The book with shipping was less than $19!
GothicDan 11-10-04, 11:58 PM	Halruaa is THE most magically powerful society on Faerun, so it would differ significantly from the prevalence of magic in the games as you play them now. Consider it a little left-over piece of Netheril.
Imruphel 11-11-04, 09:09 AM	Yes, it's a great book and definitely worth getting. IMO, Thomas Reid did an outstanding job which I have frankly come to expect from him. He seems an extremely competent and diligent author and designer to the point where I would happily buy any product (including a novel) with his name on it. I've been really disappointed with a lot of WotC's later books (Complete Divine, MMII etc...) but, again IMO, they have yet to put a foot wrong with FR products and SS is one of the stronger ones. My only complaint is that I wish the same colours had been used for the maps as were used in UE and FRCS. Oh, and I wish the maps had been posted in a gallery on the website (note to self: when are you going to fix the scanner?).
ksbsnowowl 11-11-04, 09:30 AM	I've been really disappointed with a lot of WotC's later books (Complete Divine, MMII etc...) I must say that for the most part I enjoyed the MMII, but your comment about Complete Divine made me wonder.....how is SS on typos? I've heard horror stories about CD, but I haven't seen too many typos in the FR books. Is this also quality work in that regard?
Imruphel 11-11-04, 06:32 PM	I must say that for the most part I enjoyed the MMII, but your comment about Complete Divine made me wonder.....how is SS on typos? I've heard horror stories about CD, but I haven't seen too many typos in the FR books. Is this also quality work in that regard? I've generally found the FR books to be well-edited. I'm not sure if the editors are fans and thus better motivated to do a better job or if they are simply better editors. Then again, perhaps the writers/developers are turning over better quality manuscripts? Anyway, I'm not sure of the reasons but I do believe that the FR books are higher quality than the core line books. PS: My dislike of MMII is based on the "breaking" of the rules for monsters that were established in MM and in the subsequent Dragon article that explained how to design monsters. In other words, just as we have seen "power creep" in the post-core books for players, MMII breaks certain rules so that there is power creep for monsters. Oh yeah, and the art sucked.... ;)
pyrognome 11-11-04, 08:30 PM	on the typos- none that i noticed. on the worth- it is a great book. i run an FR game, an Ebbie game, and a homebrew game. i use the FR supplements extensively in creating my world ie. spells, magic items, feats, etc. i found it to be very informative and the Shaar seemed like a really interesting place to run a low magic game.
Lady_Serpintine 11-12-04, 01:14 AM	For those who are interested in the drow it is great it has some more information on them, neat magic items, and creatures...best of all to me they brought back Beguiler's. ^_^
Chosen Of Bhaal 11-12-04, 03:15 AM	Is Halruaa detailed enough to be able to run a campaign there? Like, is it good enough on its own to make me buy SS?
TomCosta 11-12-04, 09:53 AM	I think Halruaa is easily detailed enough to run a campaign there, but so you can make a better judgement it has roughly as much detail, maybe a little more, as any of the regions detailed in Unapproachable East -- that is it has several paragraphs on each major geographic feature and each major city, details bits about culture, warfare, politics, history, etc., has at least 3 country-oriented prestige classes, details some intrigues and has even more plot hooks scattered within, has complete encounter tables, and of course details all the surrounding countrysides, so I'd say its a resounding yes. Mr. Reid did an amazing job. All that said, if you plan a campaign in Halruaa and you haven't yet done so, read Elaine Cunningham's Counselors and Kings trilogy of books set there to get an even better feel for the country, culture, and history.
Ty 11-12-04, 10:32 AM	This book is worth the cash to spend, even if you don't plan on setting your game in the Shining South. Its a simply wonderful book meeting a certain level of "crunch" with feats, prestige classes, and spells, in addition to having an enormous amount of "fluff" that really lets you capture the feel for the area with minimal effort or "on the fly" make-believe. However, it's also not so rigid in its applications that you can't tweak much of it for your own use. As an aside to the designers, the sidebar prestige classes are absolutely wonderful. I've always been hesitant to use many of the "complete-series" prestige classes due to the fact they lacked any Realms-specific flavor or reference point. With the sidebars and its minor alterations, these are fantastic devices to allow players to adjust the PrC to the FR without losing something in translation. not so subtle hint that a web-enhancement for the "complete" PrC's already out there to receive the same treatment would be welcome
Chosen Of Bhaal 11-12-04, 04:29 PM	Ok thanks i'll try pick it up sometime, and i'll try get my hands on Counselors and Kings books aswell. Thanks!
Shemeska the Marauder 11-13-04, 02:22 AM	In a word: yes. Two sourebooks in a row now have gone beyond my expectations, Serpent Kingdoms and now SS. This while the 'core' DnD books have been reliably underwhelming me to the point of not buying any of them lately. I don't own a single of the 'complete' series of books, the editing horror stories have been well founded of late in the 'core' books, and well, the Planar Handbook had maybe one or two good sections (those directly related to Planescape material) and the last 30 odd pages of the book were the worst designed concept in the history of 3e DnD. Touchstones. shudder However FR has avoided any of these problems and has been consistently very very good quality in terms of the writing. One of the big things is the level of 'fluff' in the FR books versus the overwhelming mindless 'crunch' and power creep that panders to a style of DnD that I've long since pulled a Pilate and washed my hands of entirely.
Mystery Man 11-13-04, 09:12 AM	the Planar Handbook had maybe one or two good sections (those directly related to Planescape material) and the last 30 odd pages of the book were the worst designed concept in the history of 3e DnD. Touchstones. shudder Not to stray off topic...somewhere on Enworld is a multipager fight I started on how bad I thought the Planar Handbook was. And yes, you simply can't go wrong with any of the FR books put out these days. I think they have the balance of material worked out finally.
WageSage 11-15-04, 05:05 AM	For those of you who are thinking about this book. I have bought this book and it is missing 17 pages. All of the copies at our local store are missing these pages! It is missing several of the prestige classes and many of the spells.
Thasianas Galanodel 11-16-04, 10:43 AM	For me, every single FR book of the 3/3.5 Ed is greatly worth the price they ask for. SHining south wasn't my particular favorite part of the realms ( I live in the cold and untamed lands of Québec. ( I a bit exagerating here, Montreal's not that cold but anyway back to topics ! :D ) So you guys and gals can easily imagine what's my favorite FR Regions is, ''The North'' :eek: :bow: :crazy: :drool: ) So back to the main of the topic, Shining South wasn't in my heart at the beginning but is trully at the end :bow: :ayyyy!: (I'm less geek than I may look like but still, I love those books! )
ksbsnowowl 11-16-04, 03:50 PM	Well, Shining South just arrived today, and I must say that I am quite impressed. I wish it had some more new creatures in it (5 of the 12 creatures in the book are reprints of creatures from Monsters of Faerun, Deities and Demigods, and MMII - The updates are of no use to me, as I still play 3.0). Overall though, I'm quite pleased. It has a good mix of fluff and crunch. Although I've only gotten about an hour to read through it, I give it a thumbs up!