Is There a chosen for every god [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is There a chosen for every god [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hell_Cat
09-04-03, 02:42 PM Is There a chosen for every god and if so what are the requirements be.:embarrass
Darkmore
09-04-03, 03:06 PM Originally posted by Hell_Cat
what are the requirements be
There's only one pre-requisite : must be chosen by a god

sorry I "had" to do that
:D
Charles Phipps
09-04-03, 04:18 PM Being a Chosen is described as being much like a Proxy. To become a Chosen is to lose part of your divine power (probably 1 rank in your deity status) which really dusts alot of God's sense of justice.

Some gods love them though

To be a chosen one must

* First be needed by a deity

Chosen basically are required whenever a deity needs someone like Moses or Elijah to more or less sort through all the dangers of FR for the faithful

Not THAT uncommon with Tarrasques and so forth abounding

* Must be exceptional in some way

The Seven were Mystra's children, Elminster was a Prince of an evil mage kingdom who had gone through every D&D class, etc

* Must have done some pretty hefty services for their deity directly

Elminster overthrow a kingdom of evil Magi for example

* Must be unquestionably loyal and have proven it

Elminster was forced to live as a woman. He was forced to apprentice himself to someone pure evil. Elminster was forced to open Myth Drannor to nonelves

In general being a chosen isn't even much better as your even MORE likely to be abused and knocked around by them directly
Kuje31
09-04-03, 04:25 PM I have to disagree that it takes a Divine Rank to make a Chosen. Chosen are not Proxies, yes they are similiar, but they are not the same. Also it doesn't say any where that to make a Chosen the deity has to use a Divine Rank.
Thrudjelmer
09-04-03, 05:09 PM I'd say Chosen are a step down from proxies... definitely. Proxies actually gain a Divine Rank of 1 (granted from their patron's actual rank), and they gain all the benefits of having a divine rank except for actually being worshipped independantly from the patron.

Chosen are just mortals that have been given a little extra power (by comparison) to accomplish a specific task or mission.

As for whether or not there is a Chosen for every god, that's really up to the DM. Let's just say every god likely has the potential to grant such bonus power, but not all of them necessarily do so.
Cli' San Aquanova
09-04-03, 05:40 PM I don't think the elemental deities have chosen, do they? I've never discovered one in my research.
Charles Phipps
09-04-03, 05:44 PM Ao made Mystra create so many proxies so that she wouldn't be so powerful according to Time of Troubles

AND

according to official ruling, Chosen are a step UP from proxies...
Garnet Hardeon
09-04-03, 05:44 PM I wouldn't be surprised if every Faerunian deity had at least one Chosen in a given point in time. Though I don't think that many Chosen are actually broadcast to the world. For their own safety, methinks.
Kuje31
09-04-03, 06:31 PM Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Ao made Mystra create so many proxies so that she wouldn't be so powerful according to Time of Troubles

AND

according to official ruling, Chosen are a step UP from proxies...

Do you have quotes to back this up? AO made Mystra make Chosen's not Proxies.

Also if you look in Demihuman Deities, the Proxy of Labelas gave up that status and then became a Chosen. They are two different things in 2e and they are still in 3E. There is nothing in the Chosen template for the Chosen of Mystra that says a Chosen has a Divine Rank, nor do any of the stat'd Chosen in the FRCS have any Divine Ranks.

Proxies also get different abilities according to the 3e books then what Chosen's get.

"The Chosen of Labelas has served for a brief period as Labelas's (it actually says Vartan's but that is a typo) proxy in the plane of Arvandor, but he has left that service to return to the Realms."
Charles Phipps
09-04-03, 07:39 PM The Time of Troubles adventure modules say Ao commanded her to create Chosen to lose her power and the Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep which said that Chosen are more important than proxies.

As for the Proxy of Labeles losing his status, he lost his Chosen status in the fiction....they only retconned it to him still being Chosen

Weird huh
Kuje31
09-04-03, 07:44 PM Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The Time of Troubles adventure modules say Ao commanded her to create Chosen to lose her power and the Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep which said that Chosen are more important than proxies.

As for the Proxy of Labeles losing his status, he lost his Chosen status in the fiction....they only retconned it to him still being Chosen

Weird huh

Excatly, she made Chosen's not Proxies. And right now the Candlekeep site is down so I can't check on that quote.

I am not argueing that Chosen are more important then Proxies (I can't really say either way, but I would say it would depend on the deity). But I would say in 3e Proxies have more power then a Chosen, since Proxies get a Divine Rank and some of the abilities of thier deity.

Well they retconned a lot of things. :) But a Chosen has never been a Proxy and they are still not in 3E, since none of the Chosen have a Divine Rank.

And according to the Planescape products, Lathander also has a proxy, but we know he does not have a Chosen.
Thrudjelmer
09-04-03, 10:55 PM Originally posted by Charles Phipps
according to official ruling, Chosen are a step UP from proxies...

Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The Time of Troubles adventure modules say Ao commanded her to create Chosen to lose her power and the Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep which said that Chosen are more important than proxies.

The Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep is the "official" ruling? If it is, why wouldn't it be on the WotC FR site somewhere?
kedi
09-05-03, 04:02 AM I can't imagine the chosen of sune!http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/kedigrin.txt
the_heart
09-05-03, 04:41 AM more important doesn't equal more powerful...proxies are WAY more powerful than chosen, he!!, rank 0 deities rocks...
surely, if chosen cost a divine rank, mystra would have a divine rank of about 2 not the 17 or 18 she is.

and i can only think of one common pre-req for all the chosen... being able to con your DM into allowing it.... :)
Charles Phipps
09-05-03, 05:04 AM Hmmmm given we don't see much in the way of Proxies and its an obscure question (but the quote WAS from a designer)

I imagine its just not important enough to mention.

As for Mystra being much weaker for it, I imagine magci is so plentiful she realy is just THAT strong
Pajmage
09-05-03, 06:37 AM OK, one question...

Whats a proxy?
kedi
09-05-03, 07:17 AM Originally posted by the_heart
more important doesn't equal more powerful...proxies are WAY more powerful than chosen, he!!, rank 0 deities rocks...
surely, if chosen cost a divine rank, mystra would have a divine rank of about 2 not the 17 or 18 she is.

and i can only think of one common pre-req for all the chosen... being able to con your DM into allowing it.... :) 16, she has 16 divine ranks
the_heart
09-05-03, 07:24 AM see...i knew there was a reason they should let me bring the books to work!!!! :)

Pajmage, a proxy is a representative of a god imbued with some of that gods 'divine' essence( essentially a divine rank).

a chosen is not usually a representative as such. but someone the god trusts to work on their behalf and gains nifty non divine abilities to assist them.
Thrudjelmer
09-05-03, 07:39 AM Maybe Mystra has a Divine Rank of giving up ranks to all her other Chosen, and this is a way in which her power is limited (as desired by Ao).

Still, nothing I've seen thus far indicates that dieties must sacrifice anything (Divine Ranks or otherwise) to grant the Chosen extra power.
Urbannen
09-05-03, 09:41 AM Don't deities have a limit on the number of manifestations they can have at any one time? Maybe every chosen could represent one manifestation of the deity on Faerūn?
Tebryn14
09-07-03, 12:31 AM According to 3e rules, a proxy is created when a deity actually gives up a rank, making that being an actual deity. I would imagine that to a mortal, a chosen would seem more important, because proxies actually live with the deity and see to their needs on a higher level, thus are almost never seen by mortals. Mystra is DvR 18. Because none of the chosen have divine rank, we must assume that they are not proxies. Regardless of what may have been in 2e, chosen are now a step down from proxies, at least in power level. If anyone questions any of this info, I have pulled it all from actual 3e source books.
Dargoth
09-07-03, 12:40 AM In that case the only known proxy is Volumvax and hes a proxy of Shar
Tebryn14
09-07-03, 01:05 AM I don't think he is a proxy. Shar would never give up a rank to a servant, though I suppose if something occured that required her full power, she could withdraw that rank immediately. But anyway he is DvR 0. In the realms, it seems to be assumed that gods can sponsor mortals to divinity, without giving up a rank or necessarily being served by the new god.
Thrudjelmer
09-08-03, 01:33 AM Yes, that is correct. Gods do not have to give up any power to sponsor someone ascending to godhood. In this case, the individual ascending is gaining all his power and mojo on his own, but requires an actual god to put in a good word for him with Ao... because Ao decides whether or not someone actually becomes a god.

All gods, good or evil sponsor other gods with a bit of self-serving interest in the new diety... because it helps to have more godly allies. In the case of good-aligned gods, that's exactly what they want: more allies that think along the same lines as they do. Evil gods, however, are more interested in having servants. If they help a mortal ascend to godhood, but keep him somewhat repressed, then they don't have to worry about the new god ever becoming an enemy. Should the new god start to stray, I doubt the elder god would hesitate for a moment to try and destroy that god and absorb what little power he has to offer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hell_Cat 09-04-03, 02:42 PM	Is There a chosen for every god and if so what are the requirements be.:embarrass
Darkmore 09-04-03, 03:06 PM	Originally posted by Hell_Cat what are the requirements be There's only one pre-requisite : must be chosen by a god sorry I "had" to do that :D
Charles Phipps 09-04-03, 04:18 PM	Being a Chosen is described as being much like a Proxy. To become a Chosen is to lose part of your divine power (probably 1 rank in your deity status) which really dusts alot of God's sense of justice. Some gods love them though To be a chosen one must * First be needed by a deity Chosen basically are required whenever a deity needs someone like Moses or Elijah to more or less sort through all the dangers of FR for the faithful Not THAT uncommon with Tarrasques and so forth abounding * Must be exceptional in some way The Seven were Mystra's children, Elminster was a Prince of an evil mage kingdom who had gone through every D&D class, etc * Must have done some pretty hefty services for their deity directly Elminster overthrow a kingdom of evil Magi for example * Must be unquestionably loyal and have proven it Elminster was forced to live as a woman. He was forced to apprentice himself to someone pure evil. Elminster was forced to open Myth Drannor to nonelves In general being a chosen isn't even much better as your even MORE likely to be abused and knocked around by them directly
Kuje31 09-04-03, 04:25 PM	I have to disagree that it takes a Divine Rank to make a Chosen. Chosen are not Proxies, yes they are similiar, but they are not the same. Also it doesn't say any where that to make a Chosen the deity has to use a Divine Rank.
Thrudjelmer 09-04-03, 05:09 PM	I'd say Chosen are a step down from proxies... definitely. Proxies actually gain a Divine Rank of 1 (granted from their patron's actual rank), and they gain all the benefits of having a divine rank except for actually being worshipped independantly from the patron. Chosen are just mortals that have been given a little extra power (by comparison) to accomplish a specific task or mission. As for whether or not there is a Chosen for every god, that's really up to the DM. Let's just say every god likely has the potential to grant such bonus power, but not all of them necessarily do so.
Cli' San Aquanova 09-04-03, 05:40 PM	I don't think the elemental deities have chosen, do they? I've never discovered one in my research.
Charles Phipps 09-04-03, 05:44 PM	Ao made Mystra create so many proxies so that she wouldn't be so powerful according to Time of Troubles AND according to official ruling, Chosen are a step UP from proxies...
Garnet Hardeon 09-04-03, 05:44 PM	I wouldn't be surprised if every Faerunian deity had at least one Chosen in a given point in time. Though I don't think that many Chosen are actually broadcast to the world. For their own safety, methinks.
Kuje31 09-04-03, 06:31 PM	Originally posted by Charles Phipps Ao made Mystra create so many proxies so that she wouldn't be so powerful according to Time of Troubles AND according to official ruling, Chosen are a step UP from proxies... Do you have quotes to back this up? AO made Mystra make Chosen's not Proxies. Also if you look in Demihuman Deities, the Proxy of Labelas gave up that status and then became a Chosen. They are two different things in 2e and they are still in 3E. There is nothing in the Chosen template for the Chosen of Mystra that says a Chosen has a Divine Rank, nor do any of the stat'd Chosen in the FRCS have any Divine Ranks. Proxies also get different abilities according to the 3e books then what Chosen's get. "The Chosen of Labelas has served for a brief period as Labelas's (it actually says Vartan's but that is a typo) proxy in the plane of Arvandor, but he has left that service to return to the Realms."
Charles Phipps 09-04-03, 07:39 PM	The Time of Troubles adventure modules say Ao commanded her to create Chosen to lose her power and the Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep which said that Chosen are more important than proxies. As for the Proxy of Labeles losing his status, he lost his Chosen status in the fiction....they only retconned it to him still being Chosen Weird huh
Kuje31 09-04-03, 07:44 PM	Originally posted by Charles Phipps The Time of Troubles adventure modules say Ao commanded her to create Chosen to lose her power and the Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep which said that Chosen are more important than proxies. As for the Proxy of Labeles losing his status, he lost his Chosen status in the fiction....they only retconned it to him still being Chosen Weird huh Excatly, she made Chosen's not Proxies. And right now the Candlekeep site is down so I can't check on that quote. I am not argueing that Chosen are more important then Proxies (I can't really say either way, but I would say it would depend on the deity). But I would say in 3e Proxies have more power then a Chosen, since Proxies get a Divine Rank and some of the abilities of thier deity. Well they retconned a lot of things. :) But a Chosen has never been a Proxy and they are still not in 3E, since none of the Chosen have a Divine Rank. And according to the Planescape products, Lathander also has a proxy, but we know he does not have a Chosen.
Thrudjelmer 09-04-03, 10:55 PM	Originally posted by Charles Phipps according to official ruling, Chosen are a step UP from proxies... Originally posted by Charles Phipps The Time of Troubles adventure modules say Ao commanded her to create Chosen to lose her power and the Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep which said that Chosen are more important than proxies. The Forgotten Realms FAQ at Candlekeep is the "official" ruling? If it is, why wouldn't it be on the WotC FR site somewhere?
kedi 09-05-03, 04:02 AM	I can't imagine the chosen of sune!http://www.geocities.com/leaves_or/kedigrin.txt
the_heart 09-05-03, 04:41 AM	more important doesn't equal more powerful...proxies are WAY more powerful than chosen, he!!, rank 0 deities rocks... surely, if chosen cost a divine rank, mystra would have a divine rank of about 2 not the 17 or 18 she is. and i can only think of one common pre-req for all the chosen... being able to con your DM into allowing it.... :)
Charles Phipps 09-05-03, 05:04 AM	Hmmmm given we don't see much in the way of Proxies and its an obscure question (but the quote WAS from a designer) I imagine its just not important enough to mention. As for Mystra being much weaker for it, I imagine magci is so plentiful she realy is just THAT strong
Pajmage 09-05-03, 06:37 AM	OK, one question... Whats a proxy?
kedi 09-05-03, 07:17 AM	Originally posted by the_heart more important doesn't equal more powerful...proxies are WAY more powerful than chosen, he!!, rank 0 deities rocks... surely, if chosen cost a divine rank, mystra would have a divine rank of about 2 not the 17 or 18 she is. and i can only think of one common pre-req for all the chosen... being able to con your DM into allowing it.... :) 16, she has 16 divine ranks
the_heart 09-05-03, 07:24 AM	see...i knew there was a reason they should let me bring the books to work!!!! :) Pajmage, a proxy is a representative of a god imbued with some of that gods 'divine' essence( essentially a divine rank). a chosen is not usually a representative as such. but someone the god trusts to work on their behalf and gains nifty non divine abilities to assist them.
Thrudjelmer 09-05-03, 07:39 AM	Maybe Mystra has a Divine Rank of giving up ranks to all her other Chosen, and this is a way in which her power is limited (as desired by Ao). Still, nothing I've seen thus far indicates that dieties must sacrifice anything (Divine Ranks or otherwise) to grant the Chosen extra power.
Urbannen 09-05-03, 09:41 AM	Don't deities have a limit on the number of manifestations they can have at any one time? Maybe every chosen could represent one manifestation of the deity on Faerūn?
Tebryn14 09-07-03, 12:31 AM	According to 3e rules, a proxy is created when a deity actually gives up a rank, making that being an actual deity. I would imagine that to a mortal, a chosen would seem more important, because proxies actually live with the deity and see to their needs on a higher level, thus are almost never seen by mortals. Mystra is DvR 18. Because none of the chosen have divine rank, we must assume that they are not proxies. Regardless of what may have been in 2e, chosen are now a step down from proxies, at least in power level. If anyone questions any of this info, I have pulled it all from actual 3e source books.
Dargoth 09-07-03, 12:40 AM	In that case the only known proxy is Volumvax and hes a proxy of Shar
Tebryn14 09-07-03, 01:05 AM	I don't think he is a proxy. Shar would never give up a rank to a servant, though I suppose if something occured that required her full power, she could withdraw that rank immediately. But anyway he is DvR 0. In the realms, it seems to be assumed that gods can sponsor mortals to divinity, without giving up a rank or necessarily being served by the new god.
Thrudjelmer 09-08-03, 01:33 AM	Yes, that is correct. Gods do not have to give up any power to sponsor someone ascending to godhood. In this case, the individual ascending is gaining all his power and mojo on his own, but requires an actual god to put in a good word for him with Ao... because Ao decides whether or not someone actually becomes a god. All gods, good or evil sponsor other gods with a bit of self-serving interest in the new diety... because it helps to have more godly allies. In the case of good-aligned gods, that's exactly what they want: more allies that think along the same lines as they do. Evil gods, however, are more interested in having servants. If they help a mortal ascend to godhood, but keep him somewhat repressed, then they don't have to worry about the new god ever becoming an enemy. Should the new god start to stray, I doubt the elder god would hesitate for a moment to try and destroy that god and absorb what little power he has to offer.