Is Vhaeraun Mask? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Vhaeraun Mask? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Doogie
03-05-07, 12:27 AM I'm trying to figure something out. In the Forgotten Realms where the gods are concerned I know Vhaeraun is termed the Masked Lord. Does that mean that god is the same one that Evervis Cale serves who is called Mask? Or is Mask and Vhaeraun different gods but are just referred to the same way?
Need someone to shed a little light on this situation for me.
Thanks
darksyngr
03-05-07, 12:54 AM Different. Take a look in the books.
MarkusTay63
03-05-07, 01:13 AM They both saw an episode of Teen Titans and realized how cool Robin looks. ;)
Azar_of_Faerun
03-05-07, 04:40 AM Does Mask even have an "original" form, or does he always appear to the viewer in different bodies?

Edit: You forgot Leo from Lunar 2 and Tuxedo Mask from Sailor Moon ;)
Zanan
03-05-07, 08:43 AM They are, of course, not the same gods. Mask is a primarily human deity of thievery and shadows, while Vhaeraun is a drow deity - son of Araushnee (i.e. Lolth) - who happens to share nearly the same portfolios. This can be said of a number of deities though, e.g. Sehanine Moonbow & Selūne; Sharess, Sune and the Elven lass who's name escapes me right now; Garagos and Tempus; Helm, Tyr, Torm ... to name jsut a few. They all differ somewhat somewhere though, so don't get confused with aliases like "The Masked Lord" or "The Dark God".
MarkusTay63
03-05-07, 12:45 PM Does Mask even have an "original" form, or does he always appear to the viewer in different bodies?

Edit: You forgot Leo from Lunar 2 and Tuxedo Mask from Sailor Moon ;)Not familiar with those, but there was a really excellent episode of TT where Robin goes away to train, and ALL the other Titans dress in his spare costumes because "the MASK is waaay cool". :D
Renvale999
03-05-07, 07:19 PM They are, of course, not the same gods. Mask is a primarily human deity of thievery and shadows, while Vhaeraun is a drow deity - son of Araushnee (i.e. Lolth) - who happens to share nearly the same portfolios. This can be said of a number of deities though, e.g. Sehanine Moonbow & Selūne; Sharess, Sune and the Elven lass who's name escapes me right now; Garagos and Tempus; Helm, Tyr, Torm ... to name jsut a few. They all differ somewhat somewhere though, so don't get confused with aliases like "The Masked Lord" or "The Dark God".

It would be an interesting theory though, to say that one god is parading around as another almost completely different god. It would be the ulitimate deception. Right under Lloth's nose is the human diety of thieves.

Interesting campaign idea if you ask me.
Erevis Cale
03-05-07, 07:36 PM It definitely would be interesting to discover that Mask was masquerading as Vhaeraun. In truth, it wouldn't be the first time he's done such a thing. Upon claiming Avner of Hartsvale's soul in "Crucible...", Mask reveals that he also receives prayers and worship from giants; Diancastra, the trickster goddess of giants, is in fact Mask in disguise!
Xa Roth
03-05-07, 07:48 PM It definitely would be interesting to discover that Mask was masquerading as Vhaeraun. In truth, it wouldn't be the first time he's done such a thing. Upon claiming Avner of Hartsvale's soul in "Crucible...", Mask reveals that he also receives prayers and worship from giants; Diancastra, the trickster goddess of giants, is in fact Mask in disguise!

NNIICCEE!!!! I did not know this ... no wonder I always thought Mask was cool.:cool:
MarkusTay63
03-05-07, 08:45 PM I always had it in the back of my mind that Loki killed off and assumed the portfolios of both Mask and Vhaerun, and now that I know Mask is posing as another god just reinforces that. It would be very cool if it was the same god in EVERY pantheon with tricksters/thief types.

And Ao would most likely allow it, because stealing (portfolios) is part of his portfolio. :D

BTW, the Loki thing is my own concept, nothing I read (unless you count comics).
Fabius Maximus
03-06-07, 12:10 PM It definitely would be interesting to discover that Mask was masquerading as Vhaeraun. In truth, it wouldn't be the first time he's done such a thing. Upon claiming Avner of Hartsvale's soul in "Crucible...", Mask reveals that he also receives prayers and worship from giants; Diancastra, the trickster goddess of giants, is in fact Mask in disguise!

I imagine it's the other way around. Since Vhaeraun was there first, he should be masquarading as Mask.

And I can definatly see a heresy there...
Renvale999
03-06-07, 01:01 PM And one thing you have to also remember is that Mask can enter anywhere, no barrier or lock can stop him. So he could very well leave and come back to the Demonweb pits as he saw fit, without Lloth's Knowledge. I'd love to hear Rich Baker or Eric Boyd's take on this.
Alac Luin
03-06-07, 10:46 PM Not familiar with those, but there was a really excellent episode of TT where Robin goes away to train, and ALL the other Titans dress in his spare costumes because "the MASK is waaay cool". :D
I loved that episode :)

I imagine it's the other way around. Since Vhaeraun was there first, he should be masquarading as Mask.

And I can definatly see a heresy there...

I like this idea myself.
MarkusTay63
03-07-07, 12:22 AM In Chinese Mythology the thief god (Sung Chiang) is known as "the God with a thousand names", and is often depicted with 3 faces and 8 arms, to represent his many 'alter-egos' and how he has his hands in 'so-many-pies'.

This would make an excellent basis for a Vhaerun-is-everywhere setup. If this God is active in kara-Tur, and there's no reason why not, then I can see him as another one of Vhaerun's dopplegangers, and probably much closer to the truth that is Vhaerun.

That fact that he is depicted with eight arms (spider-like?) and has glowing red eyes (Drow?) lends further creadence that he is perhaps another aspect of Vhaerun.

The God is real (from L&L), but the Vhaerun thing is just my own spin; it does make for an interesting connection, however. ;)
Zanan
03-08-07, 12:43 PM And one thing you have to also remember is that Mask can enter anywhere, no barrier or lock can stop him. So he could very well leave and come back to the Demonweb pits as he saw fit, without Lloth's Knowledge. I'd love to hear Rich Baker or Eric Boyd's take on this.

Which is said in which canon book? Anyway, you know that something happened to Vhaeraun in Lady Penitent? If he was indeed Mask, somesuch would not have occured. For as opposed to Vhaeraun, Mask has a) no problem with Lolth* (though he may crave her power ... as many others do) and he b ) would not ... well read Lady Penitent.

*As opposed to the drow deity, Mask is no hate-filled fool thinking he can overhrow a deity who is at least as devious and clever as he and Vhaeraun put together.
Renvale999
03-08-07, 03:12 PM Which is said in which canon book? Anyway, you know that something happened to Vhaeraun in Lady Penitent? If he was indeed Mask, somesuch would not have occured. For as opposed to Vhaeraun, Mask has a) no problem with Lolth* (though he may crave her power ... as many others do) and he b ) would not ... well read Lady Penitent.

*As opposed to the drow deity, Mask is no hate-filled fool thinking he can overhrow a deity who is at least as devious and clever as he and Vhaeraun put together.

Last time I checked, I didn't give a cr*p about canon, but that's besides the point. All I said was I think it would be a cool idea.

My OPINION is this...Mask is the most devious of all the dieties in Faerun, and Lloth is nothing more than a spoiled brat with divinity. I think he would very well enjoy tricking the spider queen into thinking he was one of her own.

But that's my opinion, yours is he would never do such a thing...so we agree to disagree.
herceg
03-09-07, 01:44 AM 1) Why would Vhaeraun be older than Mask?

2) Any of you interested in Sung Chiang, read Blood Hostages (J. Robert King)
MarkusTay63
03-09-07, 04:14 AM because in lot of cases, Elves themselves are OLDER THEN HUMAN GODS!

So it stands to reason that THEIR gods must be older... :rolleyes:
herceg
03-09-07, 04:46 AM because in lot of cases, Elves themselves are OLDER THEN HUMAN GODS!

So it stands to reason that THEIR gods must be older... :rolleyes:

I see no correlation there.

You could say "elves (as a race) are older than humans, so it stands to reason...", but what you assume is only true IF elves (as a race) are older than humans, BECAUSE their gods created them earlier, BECAUSE their gods are older than that of humans.

I really don't want to start an arguement, I just don't see it that way. So don't roll your eyes over me :)

But I could say: It stands to reason that because of elves are an "interloper" race (and, I assume, their gods are "interlopers" too), human gods existed earlier in the Realms than the elven ones.

But then again, I don't have any information concerning the "birth" of Mask (was 'it' created by the war between Selune and Shar?), if 'it' was human god in the "beginning" at all.

Anyway, back on topic:

I really like the idea of one thousand faced god of thievery/shadows etc. Makes me feel creepy :)
GothicDan
03-09-07, 01:21 PM Some actual Elves ARE older than many lesser human gods. Individual Elves; not Elves as a race.
herceg
03-09-07, 01:29 PM Some actual Elves ARE older than many lesser human gods. Individual Elves; not Elves as a race.

That's what MarkusTay63 said in the first place. I would add that 1) only older than some _ascended_ human gods and 2) many actual humans could be older than actual lesser elven gods - ascended, of course, if there's any of them (I think there are some) :)
GothicDan
03-09-07, 01:32 PM So, what he said was completely true. And Ed Greenwood has said that many of the members of the current Faerunian pantheon are in fact ascended mortals. And then there's the fact that Elven High Magi and certain chosen Elves (Queen Amlaruil being both) have effectively unlimited lifespans to take into account, too; they don't die unless they want to.

Mask feels very much like an ascended mortal god to me, especially considering we have no records of him any time during Netheril or before (especially since Shar held his portfolios in the old Netherese pantheon, I believe).
herceg
03-09-07, 01:41 PM Oookay, this starts to sound convincing :) (I just don't like 'assumptions'.)

About Mask: Shar held those portfolios as the goddess of the _Netherese_ pantheon. So, Mask could have existed before as a god of a diferent nation/etnicity. And think about it: who is the better god of thievery - the one you know about (where it was, what it did etc.) or the one you don't (as I recall, divine power had absolutely no dependence on mortals before ToT, so it has no reason to reveal itself to the masses)
GothicDan
03-09-07, 01:44 PM Mask wasn't known in any of the other pre-Faerunian human pantheons, either. The core of the current Faerunian Pantheon is Netherese (Shar, Chauntea, Selune, Mystra). The other major one, I think, was the Talfiric pantheon, which Mask also wasn't a member of.

And power of worship ALWAYS had some influence on the power of deities. It just was never so strict before AO deemed it such. And we know of Mask in 1E, before the Time of Troubles altogether, so your statement isn't really valid.
herceg
03-09-07, 01:52 PM You mean, we don't know it earlier by the name we know it know (Mask)? :)
Actually, don't bother :)
GothicDan
03-09-07, 01:54 PM We don't know of any divine entity who held those portfolios; and the fact that we know of SHAR even as far back as the Netherese pantheon makes it hard to believe a little god like Mask could have hidden himself better than the Lady of Loss herself, older than all life on Chauntea.
Zevox
03-09-07, 06:18 PM Well, we do know Mask has worshipers on other worlds via their connection to Faerūn through the Plane of Shadows. Mayhaps he himself is an interloper coming from one of those worlds originally.

Zevox
Bonzai
03-09-07, 06:30 PM In the new novel with Evris Cale, Mask offers a hint about his past. He Mentions having mortal memories, and that he was far better looking and charming than Cale. When Cale asked if Mask was once mortal, he replied "More like a god with delusions of being mortal". That seems to hint that he was once a human who ascended to godhood. Of course this IS Mask we are talking about, and it could be a lie. Then of course he always struck me as the type who wouldn't lie. Thats too easy. He'd rather trick you with the truth... the truth he twists to suit his purpose.
MarkusTay63
03-10-07, 12:12 PM I like mask as an interloper, but then what world could he be from?

Could I be right and he is really and old earth god like Loki or Sung Chiang? :confused:

If not Earth, then from where? I was thinking the old god of deception from Threnody (kiaransalee's homeworld), but that would just connect him to Vhaerun again. Maybe he came over from Lankhmar, now that would fit nicely...

Or perhaps the god Shalpa, called Shadow, from the Theives world setting...

so many intriguing possibilities. :D

Why, he may even be Arioch and he's playing us all for fools!
herceg
03-10-07, 02:18 PM Of course this IS Mask we are talking about, and it could be a lie. Then of course he always struck me as the type who wouldn't lie. Thats too easy. He'd rather trick you with the truth... the truth he twists to suit his purpose.

THIS gave it away. It is an aes sedai from WoT :D Yes, definetely.
MarkusTay63
03-10-07, 03:06 PM Thats it!!! :eek:

He's a Forsaken that split on Ba'alzamon! :D
herceg
03-10-07, 03:29 PM You mean the Dark One, not Ba'alzamon ;)

Spoiler: Ba'alzamon is in fact Ishamael (who believes himself to be the Dark One)

Forgive me. I had to. :)
Zanan
03-10-07, 05:55 PM Last time I checked, I didn't give a cr*p about canon, but that's besides the point. All I said was I think it would be a cool idea.

In the quote I used, it didn't sound that you were presenting your ideas, hence the question. As for your opinions about canon, discussing things on here ignoring canon from the off will receive a certain amount of disrespect, especially if you don't tell the others from the beginning what your opinions are. Just as food for thought.

My OPINION is this...Mask is the most devious of all the dieties in Faerun, and Lloth is nothing more than a spoiled brat with divinity. I think he would very well enjoy tricking the spider queen into thinking he was one of her own.

Interesting opinion. Actually no, it isn't.
IMHO, quite a lot of deities come in the queue of "spoilt brats" before her ... while Mask often appears to be a brat rather than a grown up himself. And you not even have to favour one deity or another to see this.
MarkusTay63
03-11-07, 01:21 AM And you not even have to favour one deity or another to see this.And the fact that you are a Drow fan has absolutely NO bearing on your statements what-so-ever? ;)

I do agree with you, however. I can see Vhaerun having interloped into the Faerūn Pantheon (as mask) over the years, but not the other way around. Vhaerun is a much older, much more savy god.

Since his existance must be at least 25,000 years old (pre-Tintageer ), and probably more like OVER 30,000 years, that would make him a very primordial god compared to most human powers.
Zanan
03-11-07, 05:21 AM And the fact that you are a Drow fan has absolutely NO bearing on your statements what-so-ever? ;)

Well, let's put it this way: I like to present the drow from a more objective way than the Drizzt & Liriel & Eilistraee fa... supporters would have it. And I'm not exactly "a fan" of them either, I just happen to know quite lot on them and occasionally, it is good to play them along the sinister way of role-playing.

Anyway, here it is more a thing of principle. If someone happens along saying XYZ is so cool because he can do this or that ... without any substance to it - in-setting - ... the debate will soon get out of hand because all of the odd-thousand users on here could come up with their own opinions about their preferred god/character/whatever and it is all bound for flaming and other non sense. Hence the "rebuke". No insult intended whatsoever.
GothicDan
03-11-07, 02:12 PM Despite me often being Zanan's rival, I have to agree with her there. Novels are all well and good, for providing snippets of various images of the Realms, in great detail... But they're just that: snippets. Stories. Accurate, often, for the small images they portray, but it's not very safe to expand them to more universal levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Doogie 03-05-07, 12:27 AM	I'm trying to figure something out. In the Forgotten Realms where the gods are concerned I know Vhaeraun is termed the Masked Lord. Does that mean that god is the same one that Evervis Cale serves who is called Mask? Or is Mask and Vhaeraun different gods but are just referred to the same way? Need someone to shed a little light on this situation for me. Thanks
darksyngr 03-05-07, 12:54 AM	Different. Take a look in the books.
MarkusTay63 03-05-07, 01:13 AM	They both saw an episode of Teen Titans and realized how cool Robin looks. ;)
Azar_of_Faerun 03-05-07, 04:40 AM	Does Mask even have an "original" form, or does he always appear to the viewer in different bodies? Edit: You forgot Leo from Lunar 2 and Tuxedo Mask from Sailor Moon ;)
Zanan 03-05-07, 08:43 AM	They are, of course, not the same gods. Mask is a primarily human deity of thievery and shadows, while Vhaeraun is a drow deity - son of Araushnee (i.e. Lolth) - who happens to share nearly the same portfolios. This can be said of a number of deities though, e.g. Sehanine Moonbow & Selūne; Sharess, Sune and the Elven lass who's name escapes me right now; Garagos and Tempus; Helm, Tyr, Torm ... to name jsut a few. They all differ somewhat somewhere though, so don't get confused with aliases like "The Masked Lord" or "The Dark God".
MarkusTay63 03-05-07, 12:45 PM	Does Mask even have an "original" form, or does he always appear to the viewer in different bodies? Edit: You forgot Leo from Lunar 2 and Tuxedo Mask from Sailor Moon ;)Not familiar with those, but there was a really excellent episode of TT where Robin goes away to train, and ALL the other Titans dress in his spare costumes because "the MASK is waaay cool". :D
Renvale999 03-05-07, 07:19 PM	They are, of course, not the same gods. Mask is a primarily human deity of thievery and shadows, while Vhaeraun is a drow deity - son of Araushnee (i.e. Lolth) - who happens to share nearly the same portfolios. This can be said of a number of deities though, e.g. Sehanine Moonbow & Selūne; Sharess, Sune and the Elven lass who's name escapes me right now; Garagos and Tempus; Helm, Tyr, Torm ... to name jsut a few. They all differ somewhat somewhere though, so don't get confused with aliases like "The Masked Lord" or "The Dark God". It would be an interesting theory though, to say that one god is parading around as another almost completely different god. It would be the ulitimate deception. Right under Lloth's nose is the human diety of thieves. Interesting campaign idea if you ask me.
Erevis Cale 03-05-07, 07:36 PM	It definitely would be interesting to discover that Mask was masquerading as Vhaeraun. In truth, it wouldn't be the first time he's done such a thing. Upon claiming Avner of Hartsvale's soul in "Crucible...", Mask reveals that he also receives prayers and worship from giants; Diancastra, the trickster goddess of giants, is in fact Mask in disguise!
Xa Roth 03-05-07, 07:48 PM	It definitely would be interesting to discover that Mask was masquerading as Vhaeraun. In truth, it wouldn't be the first time he's done such a thing. Upon claiming Avner of Hartsvale's soul in "Crucible...", Mask reveals that he also receives prayers and worship from giants; Diancastra, the trickster goddess of giants, is in fact Mask in disguise! NNIICCEE!!!! I did not know this ... no wonder I always thought Mask was cool.:cool:
MarkusTay63 03-05-07, 08:45 PM	I always had it in the back of my mind that Loki killed off and assumed the portfolios of both Mask and Vhaerun, and now that I know Mask is posing as another god just reinforces that. It would be very cool if it was the same god in EVERY pantheon with tricksters/thief types. And Ao would most likely allow it, because stealing (portfolios) is part of his portfolio. :D BTW, the Loki thing is my own concept, nothing I read (unless you count comics).
Fabius Maximus 03-06-07, 12:10 PM	It definitely would be interesting to discover that Mask was masquerading as Vhaeraun. In truth, it wouldn't be the first time he's done such a thing. Upon claiming Avner of Hartsvale's soul in "Crucible...", Mask reveals that he also receives prayers and worship from giants; Diancastra, the trickster goddess of giants, is in fact Mask in disguise! I imagine it's the other way around. Since Vhaeraun was there first, he should be masquarading as Mask. And I can definatly see a heresy there...
Renvale999 03-06-07, 01:01 PM	And one thing you have to also remember is that Mask can enter anywhere, no barrier or lock can stop him. So he could very well leave and come back to the Demonweb pits as he saw fit, without Lloth's Knowledge. I'd love to hear Rich Baker or Eric Boyd's take on this.
Alac Luin 03-06-07, 10:46 PM	Not familiar with those, but there was a really excellent episode of TT where Robin goes away to train, and ALL the other Titans dress in his spare costumes because "the MASK is waaay cool". :D I loved that episode :) I imagine it's the other way around. Since Vhaeraun was there first, he should be masquarading as Mask. And I can definatly see a heresy there... I like this idea myself.
MarkusTay63 03-07-07, 12:22 AM	In Chinese Mythology the thief god (Sung Chiang) is known as "the God with a thousand names", and is often depicted with 3 faces and 8 arms, to represent his many 'alter-egos' and how he has his hands in 'so-many-pies'. This would make an excellent basis for a Vhaerun-is-everywhere setup. If this God is active in kara-Tur, and there's no reason why not, then I can see him as another one of Vhaerun's dopplegangers, and probably much closer to the truth that is Vhaerun. That fact that he is depicted with eight arms (spider-like?) and has glowing red eyes (Drow?) lends further creadence that he is perhaps another aspect of Vhaerun. The God is real (from L&L), but the Vhaerun thing is just my own spin; it does make for an interesting connection, however. ;)
Zanan 03-08-07, 12:43 PM	And one thing you have to also remember is that Mask can enter anywhere, no barrier or lock can stop him. So he could very well leave and come back to the Demonweb pits as he saw fit, without Lloth's Knowledge. I'd love to hear Rich Baker or Eric Boyd's take on this. Which is said in which canon book? Anyway, you know that something happened to Vhaeraun in Lady Penitent? If he was indeed Mask, somesuch would not have occured. For as opposed to Vhaeraun, Mask has a) no problem with Lolth* (though he may crave her power ... as many others do) and he b ) would not ... well read Lady Penitent. *As opposed to the drow deity, Mask is no hate-filled fool thinking he can overhrow a deity who is at least as devious and clever as he and Vhaeraun put together.
Renvale999 03-08-07, 03:12 PM	Which is said in which canon book? Anyway, you know that something happened to Vhaeraun in Lady Penitent? If he was indeed Mask, somesuch would not have occured. For as opposed to Vhaeraun, Mask has a) no problem with Lolth* (though he may crave her power ... as many others do) and he b ) would not ... well read Lady Penitent. As opposed to the drow deity, Mask is no hate-filled fool thinking he can overhrow a deity who is at least as devious and clever as he and Vhaeraun put together. Last time I checked, I didn't give a crp about canon, but that's besides the point. All I said was I think it would be a cool idea. My OPINION is this...Mask is the most devious of all the dieties in Faerun, and Lloth is nothing more than a spoiled brat with divinity. I think he would very well enjoy tricking the spider queen into thinking he was one of her own. But that's my opinion, yours is he would never do such a thing...so we agree to disagree.
herceg 03-09-07, 01:44 AM	1) Why would Vhaeraun be older than Mask? 2) Any of you interested in Sung Chiang, read Blood Hostages (J. Robert King)
MarkusTay63 03-09-07, 04:14 AM	because in lot of cases, Elves themselves are OLDER THEN HUMAN GODS! So it stands to reason that THEIR gods must be older... :rolleyes:
herceg 03-09-07, 04:46 AM	because in lot of cases, Elves themselves are OLDER THEN HUMAN GODS! So it stands to reason that THEIR gods must be older... :rolleyes: I see no correlation there. You could say "elves (as a race) are older than humans, so it stands to reason...", but what you assume is only true IF elves (as a race) are older than humans, BECAUSE their gods created them earlier, BECAUSE their gods are older than that of humans. I really don't want to start an arguement, I just don't see it that way. So don't roll your eyes over me :) But I could say: It stands to reason that because of elves are an "interloper" race (and, I assume, their gods are "interlopers" too), human gods existed earlier in the Realms than the elven ones. But then again, I don't have any information concerning the "birth" of Mask (was 'it' created by the war between Selune and Shar?), if 'it' was human god in the "beginning" at all. Anyway, back on topic: I really like the idea of one thousand faced god of thievery/shadows etc. Makes me feel creepy :)
GothicDan 03-09-07, 01:21 PM	Some actual Elves ARE older than many lesser human gods. Individual Elves; not Elves as a race.
herceg 03-09-07, 01:29 PM	Some actual Elves ARE older than many lesser human gods. Individual Elves; not Elves as a race. That's what MarkusTay63 said in the first place. I would add that 1) only older than some _ascended_ human gods and 2) many actual humans could be older than actual lesser elven gods - ascended, of course, if there's any of them (I think there are some) :)
GothicDan 03-09-07, 01:32 PM	So, what he said was completely true. And Ed Greenwood has said that many of the members of the current Faerunian pantheon are in fact ascended mortals. And then there's the fact that Elven High Magi and certain chosen Elves (Queen Amlaruil being both) have effectively unlimited lifespans to take into account, too; they don't die unless they want to. Mask feels very much like an ascended mortal god to me, especially considering we have no records of him any time during Netheril or before (especially since Shar held his portfolios in the old Netherese pantheon, I believe).
herceg 03-09-07, 01:41 PM	Oookay, this starts to sound convincing :) (I just don't like 'assumptions'.) About Mask: Shar held those portfolios as the goddess of the _Netherese_ pantheon. So, Mask could have existed before as a god of a diferent nation/etnicity. And think about it: who is the better god of thievery - the one you know about (where it was, what it did etc.) or the one you don't (as I recall, divine power had absolutely no dependence on mortals before ToT, so it has no reason to reveal itself to the masses)
GothicDan 03-09-07, 01:44 PM	Mask wasn't known in any of the other pre-Faerunian human pantheons, either. The core of the current Faerunian Pantheon is Netherese (Shar, Chauntea, Selune, Mystra). The other major one, I think, was the Talfiric pantheon, which Mask also wasn't a member of. And power of worship ALWAYS had some influence on the power of deities. It just was never so strict before AO deemed it such. And we know of Mask in 1E, before the Time of Troubles altogether, so your statement isn't really valid.
herceg 03-09-07, 01:52 PM	You mean, we don't know it earlier by the name we know it know (Mask)? :) Actually, don't bother :)
GothicDan 03-09-07, 01:54 PM	We don't know of any divine entity who held those portfolios; and the fact that we know of SHAR even as far back as the Netherese pantheon makes it hard to believe a little god like Mask could have hidden himself better than the Lady of Loss herself, older than all life on Chauntea.
Zevox 03-09-07, 06:18 PM	Well, we do know Mask has worshipers on other worlds via their connection to Faerūn through the Plane of Shadows. Mayhaps he himself is an interloper coming from one of those worlds originally. Zevox
Bonzai 03-09-07, 06:30 PM	In the new novel with Evris Cale, Mask offers a hint about his past. He Mentions having mortal memories, and that he was far better looking and charming than Cale. When Cale asked if Mask was once mortal, he replied "More like a god with delusions of being mortal". That seems to hint that he was once a human who ascended to godhood. Of course this IS Mask we are talking about, and it could be a lie. Then of course he always struck me as the type who wouldn't lie. Thats too easy. He'd rather trick you with the truth... the truth he twists to suit his purpose.
MarkusTay63 03-10-07, 12:12 PM	I like mask as an interloper, but then what world could he be from? Could I be right and he is really and old earth god like Loki or Sung Chiang? :confused: If not Earth, then from where? I was thinking the old god of deception from Threnody (kiaransalee's homeworld), but that would just connect him to Vhaerun again. Maybe he came over from Lankhmar, now that would fit nicely... Or perhaps the god Shalpa, called Shadow, from the Theives world setting... so many intriguing possibilities. :D Why, he may even be Arioch and he's playing us all for fools!
herceg 03-10-07, 02:18 PM	Of course this IS Mask we are talking about, and it could be a lie. Then of course he always struck me as the type who wouldn't lie. Thats too easy. He'd rather trick you with the truth... the truth he twists to suit his purpose. THIS gave it away. It is an aes sedai from WoT :D Yes, definetely.
MarkusTay63 03-10-07, 03:06 PM	Thats it!!! :eek: He's a Forsaken that split on Ba'alzamon! :D
herceg 03-10-07, 03:29 PM	You mean the Dark One, not Ba'alzamon ;) Spoiler: Ba'alzamon is in fact Ishamael (who believes himself to be the Dark One) Forgive me. I had to. :)
Zanan 03-10-07, 05:55 PM	Last time I checked, I didn't give a cr*p about canon, but that's besides the point. All I said was I think it would be a cool idea. In the quote I used, it didn't sound that you were presenting your ideas, hence the question. As for your opinions about canon, discussing things on here ignoring canon from the off will receive a certain amount of disrespect, especially if you don't tell the others from the beginning what your opinions are. Just as food for thought. My OPINION is this...Mask is the most devious of all the dieties in Faerun, and Lloth is nothing more than a spoiled brat with divinity. I think he would very well enjoy tricking the spider queen into thinking he was one of her own. Interesting opinion. Actually no, it isn't. IMHO, quite a lot of deities come in the queue of "spoilt brats" before her ... while Mask often appears to be a brat rather than a grown up himself. And you not even have to favour one deity or another to see this.
MarkusTay63 03-11-07, 01:21 AM	And you not even have to favour one deity or another to see this.And the fact that you are a Drow fan has absolutely NO bearing on your statements what-so-ever? ;) I do agree with you, however. I can see Vhaerun having interloped into the Faerūn Pantheon (as mask) over the years, but not the other way around. Vhaerun is a much older, much more savy god. Since his existance must be at least 25,000 years old (pre-Tintageer ), and probably more like OVER 30,000 years, that would make him a very primordial god compared to most human powers.
Zanan 03-11-07, 05:21 AM	And the fact that you are a Drow fan has absolutely NO bearing on your statements what-so-ever? ;) Well, let's put it this way: I like to present the drow from a more objective way than the Drizzt & Liriel & Eilistraee fa... supporters would have it. And I'm not exactly "a fan" of them either, I just happen to know quite lot on them and occasionally, it is good to play them along the sinister way of role-playing. Anyway, here it is more a thing of principle. If someone happens along saying XYZ is so cool because he can do this or that ... without any substance to it - in-setting - ... the debate will soon get out of hand because all of the odd-thousand users on here could come up with their own opinions about their preferred god/character/whatever and it is all bound for flaming and other non sense. Hence the "rebuke". No insult intended whatsoever.
GothicDan 03-11-07, 02:12 PM	Despite me often being Zanan's rival, I have to agree with her there. Novels are all well and good, for providing snippets of various images of the Realms, in great detail... But they're just that: snippets. Stories. Accurate, often, for the small images they portray, but it's not very safe to expand them to more universal levels.