It is compatible? [Archive] - Wizards Community

It is compatible? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Salahdin
05-01-07, 08:35 PM Hi, I know that as a DM i can take away the rules, when is needed, but. I want to share with u my experience and want to hear some ideas and your opinion.

Some weeks ago I stared DMing a Forgotten Realms Campaing with my friends my brother and my girlfriend.
When they create the PC they chose:

A Human, Canon of Helm (LN) (Male)
A Lunar Elf, Druid of Mieliki (LN) (Female)
A Human, Assasin (Still a rogue buy he has chosen his path before he create the PC). (NE) (Female)
A Solar Elf, Necromancer that now uses the Dark Path of the Magic. (NE) (Female)

The Assasin and the necromancer chose Shar as a deity so here comes the thouible i think.
I didn´t wan´t to stop the in making what they want I suggested them not to be evil character but they really wanted to roleplay that kind of characters so i admited them.
But I forbiden the to bel Legal or Caotic so we find a way to join with the Cleric and the Druid, they are both very individualist almost ther arent LE or CE, those alignment i think are reali unplayable with a good or even a neutral group.

I read that for people that adores Shar, joining with a good aligned group is a sin, but they dont use divine magic.
They justify the idea of joining the group is for making wealth and power. I must say the the Mage is the leader of the goup in the fact, because of the hard personality.

By the moment they are roleplaying well their personalities and we have the diferent ways of resolving the situations, but by the moment they Evil players are making their will so i must admit the they are a little cruel.
Maybe i must leave the players continue developing their personalities maybe some day we can find a good final to the history.

My questions are:
Do u think i must pursue the Shar members to corrup the others, and the other to do the same.
Do u think we are breaking a big rule and the situation is ilogical.
Do u think than we can find a way to our campaing in the thime with that kind of group.
And what about Helm? Do u think he can admit his Cleric to joint that kind of group.
I think Mieliki even being good she insnt´t very strict with her people.

I have to say thet by the moment we are enjoining the game, even when we have members that backstab the others with the treasures, the others are tolerating the situation =).Maybe some day this will explode =).

Sorry for my english =), I hope u understand.
Dielzen
05-02-07, 10:51 PM I have to say thet by the moment we are enjoining the game, even when we have members that backstab the others with the treasures, the others are tolerating the situation =).Maybe some day this will explode =).

This is the only thing that matters. Whether "believable" or not, as long as they have fun, and nobody gets mad in real life, go with it.

Just make sure, during downtimes, you reinforce the unlikely oddities that exist so that maybe next game (with the group blend, new characters aren't far off) the group will all "be on the same team" =)
The Ubbergeek
05-03-07, 12:16 AM I forsee troubles and headache, man... A follower of Helm and an assassin? A miellikist and a necromancer?

While I like varied groups, man, you should slaps the wrists of yoru players lightly and remake or change things - they didn't foresee the rothé dung it will bring, intragroup warfare and all.
And this is bad mojo - not gun. Your campaign may crash.
Fabius Maximus
05-03-07, 06:29 AM I read that for people that adores Shar, joining with a good aligned group is a sin, but they dont use divine magic.
I'ts only sin if they like being part of the group. If they do it to further their own agenda, it shouldn't be a problem.
Borris
05-05-07, 06:39 PM I hope you realize that, by the rules, a druid of Mielikki can only be Neutral Good. If you want the druid to fit with the evil element of your party, you should recommend switching to a True Neutral or Lawful Neutral deity, so that your player can still have a LN druid. Silvanus might be a good choice.

Regarding those evil characters, why are you not allowing Lawful Evil characters? Chaotic evil often turns to an early backstab attempt, and wouldn't work with a follower of Helm, but Helm's church includes a few LE blackguards, so the follower of Helm could work with the assassin if he only kills to protect people, as some kind of bounty hunter.

As for Shar, since Helm is opposed to her, I don't think it can work very long. You might want the assassin and necromancer to change their patron deities, or else have the priest of Helm change for a more evil-friendly LN deity, like Hoar of Jergal.
Mr_Miscellany
05-06-07, 02:35 AM If the player characters are not loyal to the other members of the party, then they should not be allowed into the campaign.

Miss Miscellany plays in an Eberron game where one player is an Assassin with an evil alignment. That player roleplays an elf who hates humans in particular, but will assassinate just about anyone for the right price.

But that doesn't mean the player automatically attacks all humans or puts his character's desires above what the rest of the group wants to do.

My advice: The Helmite PC and Druid of Mieliki PC shouldn't automatically be in trouble with their gods/faiths because of their associations with people who worship Shar as their patron.

Likewise for the Necromancer and Assassin. But with these last two they need to remember they're part of a group of 4 players who play to have fun. That means they need to keep this in mind first, before they decide how evil they want to be during play.

Good luck!

!before i forget! : Take a look at the FR sourcebook Champions of Ruin if you get a chance. It's good a lot of good advice for DM's on how to manage evil PCs in a campaign, and for players who want to run evil PCs in the Forgotten Realms
True_Atlantean
05-06-07, 07:25 AM Then again, perhaps you should tell the players what sort of a campaign you're running and outright tell them that some character types are not feasible. I'm all for working with players, bending the rules in the name of fun, and trying to give all a positve gaming experience.

However, it is apparent that sometimes all of these goals cannot be met with a little direction from the DM.

In my FR game, we had a primarily chaotic party who prefer to follow their own moral compass, see the world in shades of grey and make up their plans as they go along. On the whole, they provide some of the most memorable and dynamic play.

However, two of them wanted to play LG characters, a monk and a knight. I did warn them that it would create interesting roleplaying opportunities and that they may find themselves in direct opposition sooner or later.

The game went very well for a while, but now both of them are playing different characters. Now that the party isn't riven by constant internal conflict, the focus and quality of the game has improved dramatically.

You are the DM. Without the players, you're a guy sat by yourself storytelling to an empty room. The players, likewise need you to provide a good game. It is a symbiotic relationship and you need to know how to guide it all, with the players working with you.

Food for thought...
Steelwind
05-06-07, 11:21 AM I hope you realize that, by the rules, a druid of Mielikki can only be Neutral Good. If you want the druid to fit with the evil element of your party, you should recommend switching to a True Neutral or Lawful Neutral deity, so that your player can still have a LN druid. Silvanus might be a good choice.

Im pretty sure that the rules for FR druids are more lax than clerics, in that followers of good gods cant be neutral evil only and vice versa.
Salahdin
05-07-07, 01:44 PM I think i have to do something with the Druid, mmm I want to konow more about "Black guard of Helm" that sounds good.
Borris
05-08-07, 02:53 AM Blackguard is a prestige class from the Dungeon Master's Guide. (It can also be found here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm) It's more or less the evil equivalent of the paladin. As a LN deity, Helm allows LE divine servants, and that includes LE blackguards. Of course, while they serve the same god, paladins and blackguards of Helm would never work together.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Salahdin 05-01-07, 08:35 PM	Hi, I know that as a DM i can take away the rules, when is needed, but. I want to share with u my experience and want to hear some ideas and your opinion. Some weeks ago I stared DMing a Forgotten Realms Campaing with my friends my brother and my girlfriend. When they create the PC they chose: A Human, Canon of Helm (LN) (Male) A Lunar Elf, Druid of Mieliki (LN) (Female) A Human, Assasin (Still a rogue buy he has chosen his path before he create the PC). (NE) (Female) A Solar Elf, Necromancer that now uses the Dark Path of the Magic. (NE) (Female) The Assasin and the necromancer chose Shar as a deity so here comes the thouible i think. I didn´t wan´t to stop the in making what they want I suggested them not to be evil character but they really wanted to roleplay that kind of characters so i admited them. But I forbiden the to bel Legal or Caotic so we find a way to join with the Cleric and the Druid, they are both very individualist almost ther arent LE or CE, those alignment i think are reali unplayable with a good or even a neutral group. I read that for people that adores Shar, joining with a good aligned group is a sin, but they dont use divine magic. They justify the idea of joining the group is for making wealth and power. I must say the the Mage is the leader of the goup in the fact, because of the hard personality. By the moment they are roleplaying well their personalities and we have the diferent ways of resolving the situations, but by the moment they Evil players are making their will so i must admit the they are a little cruel. Maybe i must leave the players continue developing their personalities maybe some day we can find a good final to the history. My questions are: Do u think i must pursue the Shar members to corrup the others, and the other to do the same. Do u think we are breaking a big rule and the situation is ilogical. Do u think than we can find a way to our campaing in the thime with that kind of group. And what about Helm? Do u think he can admit his Cleric to joint that kind of group. I think Mieliki even being good she insnt´t very strict with her people. I have to say thet by the moment we are enjoining the game, even when we have members that backstab the others with the treasures, the others are tolerating the situation =).Maybe some day this will explode =). Sorry for my english =), I hope u understand.
Dielzen 05-02-07, 10:51 PM	I have to say thet by the moment we are enjoining the game, even when we have members that backstab the others with the treasures, the others are tolerating the situation =).Maybe some day this will explode =). This is the only thing that matters. Whether "believable" or not, as long as they have fun, and nobody gets mad in real life, go with it. Just make sure, during downtimes, you reinforce the unlikely oddities that exist so that maybe next game (with the group blend, new characters aren't far off) the group will all "be on the same team" =)
The Ubbergeek 05-03-07, 12:16 AM	I forsee troubles and headache, man... A follower of Helm and an assassin? A miellikist and a necromancer? While I like varied groups, man, you should slaps the wrists of yoru players lightly and remake or change things - they didn't foresee the rothé dung it will bring, intragroup warfare and all. And this is bad mojo - not gun. Your campaign may crash.
Fabius Maximus 05-03-07, 06:29 AM	I read that for people that adores Shar, joining with a good aligned group is a sin, but they dont use divine magic. I'ts only sin if they like being part of the group. If they do it to further their own agenda, it shouldn't be a problem.
Borris 05-05-07, 06:39 PM	I hope you realize that, by the rules, a druid of Mielikki can only be Neutral Good. If you want the druid to fit with the evil element of your party, you should recommend switching to a True Neutral or Lawful Neutral deity, so that your player can still have a LN druid. Silvanus might be a good choice. Regarding those evil characters, why are you not allowing Lawful Evil characters? Chaotic evil often turns to an early backstab attempt, and wouldn't work with a follower of Helm, but Helm's church includes a few LE blackguards, so the follower of Helm could work with the assassin if he only kills to protect people, as some kind of bounty hunter. As for Shar, since Helm is opposed to her, I don't think it can work very long. You might want the assassin and necromancer to change their patron deities, or else have the priest of Helm change for a more evil-friendly LN deity, like Hoar of Jergal.
Mr_Miscellany 05-06-07, 02:35 AM	If the player characters are not loyal to the other members of the party, then they should not be allowed into the campaign. Miss Miscellany plays in an Eberron game where one player is an Assassin with an evil alignment. That player roleplays an elf who hates humans in particular, but will assassinate just about anyone for the right price. But that doesn't mean the player automatically attacks all humans or puts his character's desires above what the rest of the group wants to do. My advice: The Helmite PC and Druid of Mieliki PC shouldn't automatically be in trouble with their gods/faiths because of their associations with people who worship Shar as their patron. Likewise for the Necromancer and Assassin. But with these last two they need to remember they're part of a group of 4 players who play to have fun. That means they need to keep this in mind first, before they decide how evil they want to be during play. Good luck! !before i forget! : Take a look at the FR sourcebook Champions of Ruin if you get a chance. It's good a lot of good advice for DM's on how to manage evil PCs in a campaign, and for players who want to run evil PCs in the Forgotten Realms
True_Atlantean 05-06-07, 07:25 AM	Then again, perhaps you should tell the players what sort of a campaign you're running and outright tell them that some character types are not feasible. I'm all for working with players, bending the rules in the name of fun, and trying to give all a positve gaming experience. However, it is apparent that sometimes all of these goals cannot be met with a little direction from the DM. In my FR game, we had a primarily chaotic party who prefer to follow their own moral compass, see the world in shades of grey and make up their plans as they go along. On the whole, they provide some of the most memorable and dynamic play. However, two of them wanted to play LG characters, a monk and a knight. I did warn them that it would create interesting roleplaying opportunities and that they may find themselves in direct opposition sooner or later. The game went very well for a while, but now both of them are playing different characters. Now that the party isn't riven by constant internal conflict, the focus and quality of the game has improved dramatically. You are the DM. Without the players, you're a guy sat by yourself storytelling to an empty room. The players, likewise need you to provide a good game. It is a symbiotic relationship and you need to know how to guide it all, with the players working with you. Food for thought...
Steelwind 05-06-07, 11:21 AM	I hope you realize that, by the rules, a druid of Mielikki can only be Neutral Good. If you want the druid to fit with the evil element of your party, you should recommend switching to a True Neutral or Lawful Neutral deity, so that your player can still have a LN druid. Silvanus might be a good choice. Im pretty sure that the rules for FR druids are more lax than clerics, in that followers of good gods cant be neutral evil only and vice versa.
Salahdin 05-07-07, 01:44 PM	I think i have to do something with the Druid, mmm I want to konow more about "Black guard of Helm" that sounds good.
Borris 05-08-07, 02:53 AM	Blackguard is a prestige class from the Dungeon Master's Guide. (It can also be found here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm) It's more or less the evil equivalent of the paladin. As a LN deity, Helm allows LE divine servants, and that includes LE blackguards. Of course, while they serve the same god, paladins and blackguards of Helm would never work together.