Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ranger of the north 04-05-07, 10:53 PM	So, I've been playing BG2 lately, and the voice actor for Jon Irenicus has just blown me away. The guy perfectly captures the essence of the character. Massively powerful archmage? Check. Megalomaniacal act? Check. Badassness? Check. Is this guy the coolest villian ever? Or am I just crazy? Either way, I hate the guy already, and yet never want to stop listening to his voice. I'm considering trying to drag the sound files out of the game just to use them in my games. Let the thread crazy begin! :eek:
Panurg 04-06-07, 07:01 AM	Jon Irenicus is a brilliant villain in my opinion. :devil: A very powerfull madman indeed. I loved him during the game as much as I hated him a s an opponent. Since playing I'm waiting for a chance to use him in a campaign. The problem is, his story is very strongly bound to the BG2 game, and is hard to use outside the whole Bhaalspawn thing, without destroying very good elements. I have two questions concerning him: 1. He is an elvenarchmage of considerable power and an outsider to his culture. Is there any mention of him in the 2nd edition game accessories or official sources? Or is he simply for the PC game? 2. Considering his sister Bodi is a vampire, and he transformed her into her this state of being. Is he also undead? (Not that this is necessary for transforming someone, but ...) I mean: he looks kinda strange on the picture. :yuck:
Kid SixXx 04-06-07, 07:10 AM	Is this guy the coolest villian ever? Or am I just crazy? You're just crazy. Manshoon is the bestest FR bad guy evar. Either way, I hate the guy already, and yet never want to stop listening to his voice. I'm considering trying to drag the sound files out of the game just to use them in my games. Not surprising since Irenicus's voice is provided by David Warner, who was kind enough to lend his talents to a little film called Time Bandits as..... EVIL!!!! There should be a law that says that only David Warner, James Earl Jones, Keith David, Ian McDiarmid, Peter Serafinowicz, or Michael Duncan Clarke are allowed to provide villain voices for any cartoon or video game. 1. He is an elvenarchmage of considerable power and an outsider to his culture. Is there any mention of him in the 2nd edition game accessories or official sources? Or is he simply for the PC game? Irenicus was created for the game, but FR being the way that it is, I'm sure that he's been "canonized" by now. IIRC, the Elven Netbook you folks put together actually has a homebrew "fallen elf" template. 2. Considering his sister Bodi is a vampire, and he transformed her into her this state of being. Is he also undead? (Not that this is necessary for transforming someone, but ...) I mean: he looks kinda strange on the picture. :yuck: TMK, Irenicus is not undead, but he has been stripped of all of the vestiges that made him an elf.
Stigger 04-06-07, 07:36 AM	Never got the impression he made Bodhi a vampire... don't recall it ever being stated that he 'made' her into a vampire actually.
Renvale999 04-06-07, 08:30 AM	What's scary, is in the fight with the cowled wizards after you get out of the first dungeon, he cast no less than 6 POWER WORD KILLS...ack!!! Elminster eat your heart out, I'll take Jon Irenicus any day of the week.
Suin Bahhar 04-06-07, 09:20 AM	Yeah! Gotta love embittered villains with acidlike voices. Warner really but down the best video game character voice ever. His performance has not been outdone for like 10 years now? Ah, BG2 is the best...
Mad Mage 04-06-07, 12:15 PM	Yes, I've always been impressed with David Warner's portrayal of Irenicus. :cool: That, and the fact that such a mage could gather all that power and just cause so much havoc.
Narsil 04-06-07, 12:21 PM	There should be a law that says that only David Warner, James Earl Jones, Keith David, Ian McDiarmid, Peter Serafinowicz, or Michael Duncan Clarke are allowed to provide villain voices for any cartoon or video game. You missed Tom Baker (http://youtube.com/watch?v=SiM8drnIR0Y), Greg Ellis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW2t22dXIGs), Patrick Stewart and most importantly Kevin Michael Richardson (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8Kmmggc6jH8), who also played a Baldur's Gate bad guy.
Dexter_Blacktyde 04-06-07, 12:59 PM	Yeah! Gotta love embittered villains with acidlike voices. Warner really but down the best video game character voice ever. His performance has not been outdone for like 10 years now? Ah, BG2 is the best... That depends on personal preference. Although he is excellent as Irenicus, I'd take Simon Templeman over Warner any day of the week. DB
Panurg 04-06-07, 01:22 PM	Never got the impression he made Bodhi a vampire... don't recall it ever being stated that he 'made' her into a vampire actually. Can't name the part in which that was explained, but in my memory it is mentioned. Perhaps in the Asylum-Dungeon. Not sure. There are a few dialogues with Bodhi and also the first dungeon of Irenicus offeres some good clues for it. Other posibility is in a meta-page about the game. Perhaps it's non-official. (As all the characters of BG are of course. ;) ) In fact perhaps I only imagined this. But as you stated, this is a discussion about 'impressions' and remembering things. :bored: ;)
Ramenth 04-06-07, 01:34 PM	I dunno. I'll be honest.. I liked Sarevok as a villian more. Irenicus makes too many mistakes, in my opinion, that are out of character. Especially as the game goes on. Sarevok, on the other hand, makes a ton of mistakes too. But he mistakes are totally in character. I mean, come on! Koveras?
ChuutRiit 04-06-07, 04:09 PM	Well, Sarevok kinda had that Darth Vader theme running...slaying your mentor, looking effin' scary, talking with a deep voice and, of course, "CHARNAME, I am your brother!" :D But Irenicus...one must shudder at the cold-hearted emptiness within that guy..
Another Gnome 04-06-07, 04:42 PM	Irenicus is an awesome villain character, but I frigging HATE those stupid, sorry excuses of a video game boss whose only chance of winning is to cheat the hell out of every bloody rule in the book! And he killed my Vicky in the last battle so I had to reload to do it without casualties! Aaaaaargh! :headexplo
Ramenth 04-06-07, 05:31 PM	You didn't really need to cheat to Beat Jon... It's more that you needed to do pretty much every single quest you could to be a high enough level. i'll be honnest though, Kagaxx the lich was a harder fight for me.
GothicDan 04-06-07, 09:20 PM	I dunno. I like Christopher Lee.
Another Gnome 04-07-07, 08:51 AM	You didn't really need to cheat to Beat Jon... I mean the bosses cheat to no end. :) You know, half a dozen contingencies and all those immunities firing up no matter what you do, uninterruptable spellcasting, and stuff. Also known as the Elminster Syndrome.
Subotai 04-07-07, 04:38 PM	The trick is, bringing a guy like that to life in the gaming sessions...
msatran 04-07-07, 05:18 PM	The best villain ever? You've got to be joking. Irenicus lacks a whole bunch of traits. How can you hate a guy you barely meet? Good villains you get to fight over and over and over again. D+D is VERY poor at keeping key adversaries alive. Most groups, once they identify a clear leader, KILL him quickly and mop up the mooks afterwards. But the best villain ever? In terms of everything ever published? You must never have read Shakespeare's Richard III or Othello. Iago? Richard III? Those guys are EVIL. You must never have read a single Doc Savage novel. Jon Sunlight? He was EVIL. Darth Vader (Star Wars) The Master (Doctor Who) Doctor Doom (Marvel Comics) Vandal Savage (DC Comics) Darkseid (DC Comics) Irenicus doesn't come close to ANY of those guys, even when they're written BADLY. The best villain in the Forgotten Realms? He's about a distant thirty. Zass Tam? Number ONE. By far. Haute Couture Lich Necromancer? So cool that no one dares to challenge him? Manshoon? If he continuously comes back to life, that's just wasteful. He can't be the greatest because he KEEPS LOSING. The inner circle of the Twisted Rune? They're up there. The Emerald Enclave: That's right. I consider the Emerald Enclave a villain. Why in the name of sanity would mages and priests of Mystra allow that island to continuously exist? I'd have sank it into the sea long ago.
Stigger 04-07-07, 05:51 PM	Think I have very different ideas as to what constitutes a good villain from you mstaran. As to how to hate him... the enslaved dryads, the kidnapping and torture of your childhood friend, the whole stealing your soul thing, treating you like an animal to be vivisected for his own twisted purposes, just the utter lack of interest he shows in the atrocities he's committing, trying to rape the tree of life... how can you not hate him would be my question. Though I'd mostly agree with your assessment of the Emerald Enclave... they were villains back in 2e, but 3.x seems to have rehabilitated them a little... sorta.
GothicDan 04-07-07, 10:41 PM	I'm with Msatran on this one. Szass Tam, Manshoon, Fzoul Chembryl, the Twisted Rune (!), Halaster at one point... Those folks are EVIL. Oh, and Shoon IV. Shiver. Larloch would be a good villain if he wasn't so beyond such things. ;)
msatran 04-07-07, 11:58 PM	Shoon IV is the best "Evil Brain Switcheroo Villain" I've seen in a long time. He's not the BEST evil brain switcheroo ever, though. I'll go out on limb here though, and say that when I publish Foxbat for President for Hero Games, The Undead Skull will be the best evil brain switcheroo character ever. Why switch just the mind when you can switch...THE WHOLE HEAD!!!!
msatran 04-08-07, 12:04 AM	As for the things Irenicus does, that's not what makes someone evil. Everything that you have described to me tells me that Irenicus is AMORAL, and not evil at all. A good villain has character depth. Irenicus has NONE. He's a cardboard villain who lacks the serious gravitas that most other villains have. Having a disgusting gimmick doesn't make a good villain. The best villains are the villains who believe that they can do right through their actions, or who are more than two dimensional cardboard cutouts who do bad things. Icewind Dale II had better villains than Irenicus. Because if you play the first one, then the second one becomes "Oh, my god...I should have SEEN this coming."
msatran 04-08-07, 12:11 AM	I mean the bosses cheat to no end. :) You know, half a dozen contingencies and all those immunities firing up no matter what you do, uninterruptable spellcasting, and stuff. Also known as the Elminster Syndrome. There's a secret to that. Use the inch by inch method. I never took a point of damage from Sarevok in Baldur's Gate. I killed his allies with his other allies. This tactic works in every single one of these games. As long as your summoned creatures go in first, they will aggro on the bad guys and the bad guys will aggro on them. Pause the game as soon as anything comes into view. Hurl dispel magics like wildfire. This will shut down a chunk of their protections and give your forces time to close. Bottle them up and use ranged attacks while they blow themselves up with their own area of effect spells. Use spells that force physical saving throws against low con wizards and use as MANY save or die effects as possible. Stay away from melee combat. Everything in the game uses Melee supremacy to win fights, except wizards. And NEVER, EVER make your main character a melee fighter. Lucky Crits=Reboot. Your main character should always be an archer, a spellcaster, a cleric, or some combination thereof. Minimize your restarts and you minimize the computer's ability to learn your tactics.
Stigger 04-08-07, 01:43 AM	Suspect I'm going to have to agree to disagree. Just two different ways of looking at what constitutes a good villain that seem to be mutually exclusive of each other.
Andyr 04-09-07, 12:31 PM	Minimize your restarts and you minimize the computer's ability to learn your tactics. The AI in the Baldur's Gate and other Infinity Engine games does not learn from your playing style. :) The scripting is pretty simple.
Ramenth 04-09-07, 05:51 PM	I'll be honest. I think Irenicus is far more moving as a villian than Vader, Darkseid, or Savage. Yeah, you don't meet him constantly, but thats part of it. Fighting the same villian 80 billion times doesnt make for an interesting plot..
Karsus the Mad 04-13-07, 10:46 AM	Elminster eat your heart out, I'll take Jon Irenicus any day of the week. It's funny tho', in an ironic way. Irenicus is also a 29th level mage with ability scores that mirror 2e Elminster.
The_Shaman 04-13-07, 12:07 PM	I like the Warlock more than anyone else. Now, Szass Tam, Fzoul Chembryl, or the Manshoon are infamous and for a reason, but they're mostly embroiled in politics and that kinda ruins the setting. Larloch has transcended villainy since he captured something like 60 liches and is their lord and master - yes, including archliches so epic that Tam can't touch them. It's kinda like an elder evil - you know it's somewhere there, and that practically whatever you do, it will obliterate your soul in an instant if it gets its mind to it. That, to me, is scary. Irenicus could be good company to, say, the Manshoon or the Rune, but he pales compared to that guy.
ranger of the north 04-13-07, 04:45 PM	This may be true. I myself find Iolaum the coolest guy this side of nowhere else. But the fact stands that I get awesomely sweet voice acting for Irenicus, whereas I need to make my own crappy voices for Iolaum. And trust me, I'm no Warner. On another note, your Mortality in Planescape: Torment may be the only villain I like listening to more than Irenicus. Him and Sheer Khan (sp?) from Disney's version of the Jungle Book.
Karsus the Mad 04-13-07, 05:37 PM	whereas I need to make my own crappy voices for Iolaum. And trust me, I'm no Warner. If you want funky voices, software called Sound Forge would be good for you. I used it for custom voice files in my modding for the Infinity Engine. You can even get a nice gurgling, echo chorus of a voice for Ioulaum.
Agudo Archmage 04-14-07, 09:30 PM	Panurg Considering his sister Bodi is a vampire, and he transformed her into her this state of being. Is he also undead? In the BD 2 game she "Bodi" decided to be bitten by a Vampire to find out if she could cheat fate In other words, she new that her Elvin long life was gone, so why not live a long death? The Elvin so called gods were not easily tricked of course Her deathly body was still decaying like a normal human life span Jon eather told the Players this or it was written in his book that the players found In fact the stealing of the souls of the Main Chars was to cheat death
The_Shaman 04-15-07, 08:45 AM	If you want funky voices, software called Sound Forge would be good for you. I used it for custom voice files in my modding for the Infinity Engine. You can even get a nice gurgling, echo chorus of a voice for Ioulaum. I'd prefer something without the gurgle, myself. That'd be too organic for him. Ideally, since he's probably speaking in your head, it might be freakishly nice hearing an echo of your own voice when he does so :) .
Karsus the Mad 04-15-07, 09:04 AM	I'd prefer something without the gurgle, myself. That'd be too organic for him. Ideally, since he's probably speaking in your head, it might be freakishly nice hearing an echo of your own voice when he does so :) . Good point. I was thinking from a physical source (do elder brains even have mouths or something similar to produce sound?) submerged in the briny goopy liquid that elder brains marinate themselves in. For a telepathic "in the head" voice, a nice reverberation, echoing, slightly overlayed repetition of words that eventually fade into the next phrase would be nice. I think it'd be pretty cool also if phrases would re-emerge in the background, and possibly having the background phrases re-aranging themselves into new phrases with new meanings.
Panurg 04-19-07, 02:40 PM	In the BD 2 game she "Bodi" decided to be bitten by a Vampire to find out if she could cheat fate In other words, she new that her Elvin long life was gone, so why not live a long death? The Elvin so called gods were not easily tricked of course Her deathly body was still decaying like a normal human life span Jon eather told the Players this or it was written in his book that the players found In fact the stealing of the souls of the Main Chars was to cheat death Thanks, didn't remeber that one. :)
Clight 05-30-07, 07:05 AM	It's funny tho', in an ironic way. Irenicus is also a 29th level mage with ability scores that mirror 2e Elminster. Is that the Chaotic Good version you're talking about? I heard they just got lazy and used some Elminster template. Later in the game, Irenicus has his own attributes and is on level 30.
Karsus the Mad 05-31-07, 04:32 PM	Is that the Chaotic Good version you're talking about? I heard they just got lazy and used some Elminster template. Later in the game, Irenicus has his own attributes and is on level 30. It's been several years since I've done any editing for it, but I only remember a single npc file for him, which was identical to El's in BG1 except with the Irenicus animation. Now that I think of it, why did they bother doing El correctly:confused:
The_Shaman 06-02-07, 01:03 PM	Is that the Chaotic Good version you're talking about? Apparently I need to stock up on some older FR stuff. Was there any other one?
Karsus the Mad 06-02-07, 03:45 PM	Apparently I need to stock up on some older FR stuff. Was there any other one? He's talking about Irenicus. If my memory serves, in the editor his alignment does show up as Chaotic Good. They litterally took the El from BG1, changed animation, renamed it Jon Irenicus.