Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thalious 10-21-03, 05:39 PM	His soul was trapped by an Epic Mage and turned over to a Homebrew God that I use in the FR. What would, could Mystra do to get him released? So you know, AO IMC has ruled that Mystra can no longer deny anyone access to the weave.
Cherrn 10-21-03, 07:28 PM	Mystra would ask this homebrew god to release Khelben. If not then Mystra will remove the homebrew god from the pantheon ;)
the_heart 10-22-03, 06:25 AM	if asking nicely fails, bribery blackmail and corruption follows; alright call it politics if it makes you feel better... depends on how powerful this homebrew god is and how many allies he has. don't forget dieties usually work via mortals. having Mystra's worshippers obstructing your clerics at work can have a debilitating effect(you're trying to cast a spell to impress convert the locals and one mage of mystra is still/silent counterspelling whilst another does everything you want to accomplish)(Mystra's clerics purchase the land you're temples are on and converts them to old folks homes) maybe she would offer a challenge to this homebrew deity(HBD), champion vs champion.(what else she could offer is campaign specific i guess) mystra will almost certainly consider retribution, soul trapping HBD's head priest and offering it in 'fair' trade. she might not be able to deny access to the weave, but can she manipulate it so that their spells work less efficiently go haywire? rambled enough, hope i didn't miss the intent to much.
Teluvor 10-22-03, 07:03 AM	What kind of epic mage are we talking about here? :confused: Even supposing he would be able to surprise Khelben, then overcome his guards, spellmantles and contingencies enough to entrap him, Khelben can call upon Laeral through the link all chosen share. One blast of silver fire later: bye-bye epic mage... Even if Khelben got caught, your home-brewed god had better be of greater power, or have a greater power backing him, otherwise I'd agree with the scenarios of Cherrn and the-heart
the_heart 10-22-03, 07:50 AM	hehe, however it happened, it happened in this campaign......i still wouldn't want to be in that mages shoes though, cos if mystra needs something to trade, what better than this mage, and i don't think the other chosen will be overly gentle as they go about it :D
thalious 10-22-03, 09:27 AM	Thanks everyone for your input on the matter. The HBD IMC name is "Palm" he is a former PC and now a God of Magic, Fate, Knowledge, and Death (character level=93rd). The Mage named Talios (character level=25th) is the one who trapped Khelbens soul. The battle lasted one round. Khelben rolled 1 versus the Trap the Soul and by the book he had no defense versus the spell. Part of my campaign is the weakening of Mystra and the ascension of a few "new" gods, Palm being one of them. So Mystra is not going to be tossing anyone out of the Divine Neighborhood so to speak. I do intend to have the Simbul pay Talios a visit..... The Simbul obviously will try to gain Khelben's freedom and or capture/kill Talios for his offense. How would Waterdeep react to the news of Khelben's capture/soul trapping?
Cherrn 10-22-03, 11:12 AM	Waterdeep as a city probably wouldn't do a thing. Khelben is just another mage who lives there. However I would think that a lot of Khelben's old friends would try and free him, you know, the chosen of mystra and their friends.
the_heart 10-22-03, 11:20 AM	i think laeral might be more peeved than the Simbul. i'm with chern on this one, i mean waterdeep (as a city)might not even notice, Khelben is absent/incommunicado for vast periods of time. the Lords might notice, but their primary responsibility is to waterdeep, not looking out for one lone mage.
Kuje31 10-22-03, 12:53 PM	The elves would also probably get involved, especially those of Evereska, since he has been a honorary elf friend for decades, because he saved a group of them once when they were in Anauroach(sp?).
Quenthel Baenre 10-22-03, 02:21 PM	Not to mention that Mystra has extraplanar minions of her own. I hope your mage has enough power to deal with not only the Chosen of Mystra (Laeral and Alustriel especially), but also a few elite strike teams composed of planetar sorcerers and solar wizards. :D
Kuje31 10-22-03, 02:37 PM	Also, Khelben the Younger, would probably also return either from Gryehawk or wherever he is currently living on Faerun, since FR is not part of the Great Wheel any more.
thalious 10-22-03, 05:09 PM	Originally posted by Kuje31 The elves would also probably get involved, especially those of Evereska, since he has been a honorary elf friend for decades, because he saved a group of them once when they were in Anauroach(sp?). IMC, the HBD "Palm" is an Elf. So the Elves of Evermeet and elsewhere probably won't get involved. The drow would be pleased to hear of Khlebens fall. As to Waterdeep, others have posted my thoughts on the issue. As for his pals.... I am planning. The Mage is question is quite able to fend of some attacks from Solars and the like, easy it won't be, but feasible.
CaffeineGenasi 10-23-03, 06:09 AM	Personally, if I were Palm, I would sell Khelben's soul to some other deity. Unless he has a personal grief, it's a dangerous thing to have around. And is very valuable to many evil nasties, just as a novelty... Why is Ao weakening Mystra? Is it because the DM has a dislike for her? What good is she at all if you distribute her portfolio out to others or take away her control of the very thing she is supposed to be regulating? I can think of a lot of things I would do as Mystar in this campaign that have nothing to do with Khelben and his current unlucky situation. Just because Palm WAS an elf, that does not mean elves wouldn't get involved if they would have against a former human deity. If you don't want elves involved, OK, but your reason isn't sufficient to keep all elves out. Just the ones who wouldn't care anyway. What kind of priests does Palm have? A political campaign of Mystrans against just about any upstart is going to get nasty. Midnight wasn't known for her touchy feely personality. Personally, I have never liked Blackstaff. And I have played with my share of homebrewed deities. I don't have a problem with the situation itself...but make sure you think it through logically. Does Palm want to stand against a coalition of potentially all the other Chosen together with a few solars and planetars, not to mention distractions like evil deity minions trying to sneak in to steal the soul? Surely there are better things he can be doing with his time, especially since Mystra is crippled by limitations placed on her by Ao. (Why would he do that, I just don't get it...*walks away mumbling about deities and blah blah blah*)
Darkmistress 10-23-03, 06:45 AM	IMC, the HBD "Palm" is an Elf. So the Elves of Evermeet and elsewhere probably won't get involved. Er, no. Laeral's buddy-friendly with the elven queen Amlaruil. Many of the Chosen of Mystra have elven friends/acquaintances. Don't even get started on Elminster. Ouch. Just because the HBD is an elf doesn't mean the elves will do nothing. What Palm has done would probably provoke the wrath of the Seldarine, considering that Corellon Larethian has a standing truce of sorts with Mystra (i.e., concerning elven High Magic). See, Mystra would be mightily ticked off, and she might take it that this is an insult from the Seldarine as a whole. It's logical, therefore, that the Seldarine will seek to make amends. Unless, for some reason I can't for the life of me puzzle out, the Seldarine is supporting Palm. By the way, if Palm's a god of magic, then what is Mystra in your campaign now? What about Kelemvor? And Oghma?
thalious 10-23-03, 06:20 PM	I had said the Elves probably would not get involved, not for sure. Q. "Just because Palm WAS an elf, that does not mean elves wouldn't get involved if they would have against a former human deity. If you don't want elves involved, OK, but your reason isn't sufficient to keep all elves out. Just the ones who wouldn't care anyway." A. Palm had met with the Elves of Evermeet and Corellon Larethian before his ascension and made of defensive agreement of non-interference in regards to his divine work and their mortal plans of returning from the Retreat. Why am I having AO weaken Mystra? Her alignment makes her unsuitable as a greater God of magic and "controller" of the Weave IMO and IMC. Why am I dividing out control of the Weave. Look Up ^. By dividing the control of the Weave into various Gods hands including Mystra, no one god will have total control over magic, other than AO. Palm did not Trap Khelbens Soul, one of Palm's "Chosen" did. Yes Palm accepted the Soul, but he has not decided what to do with it. He might just return the Soul to Mystra with a warning to keep her Chosen away from his. Since it was Khelben who had gone to Talios home and started throwing his weight around first. Q. "By the way, if Palm's a god of magic, then what is Mystra in your campaign now? What about Kelemvor? And Oghma?" A. Mystra is has not changed yet in game. She might become weaker, but that is dependent on the players actions or lack of. I am not just changing things without giving the players a chance to affect the outcome. Q. "Why is Ao weakening Mystra? Is it because the DM has a dislike for her? What good is she at all if you distribute her portfolio out to others or take away her control of the very thing she is supposed to be regulating? I can think of a lot of things I would do as Mystar in this campaign that have nothing to do with Khelben and his current unlucky situation." A. Yes as a former player in the FR I hated Mystra and her threats to "take away spellcasting ability" from those who oppose her--granted my old DM has much to do with this dislike of Mystra. I don't treat my players that way. I am not getting rid of Mystra, just that one aspect of her power, which IMO is good move. If I find a player is abusing their spellcasting, I will use other tactics other than "Mystra Strips you of your spellcasting ability" to reign them in. Q. "Does Palm want to stand against a coalition of potentially all the other Chosen together with a few solars and planetars, not to mention distractions like evil deity minions trying to sneak in to steal the soul?" A. He does not wish to fight directly against any Gods, but won't be afraid to do it if left with no other option. Also, the Chosen of Mystra and Bane are not that tough as to be able to effectively challenge any God, Palm included IMO. As to someone stealing Khelbens' Soul from Palm, fat chance unless they can steal it right in front of him, keep in mind that Palm had 20 Levels of Rogue and 10 Assassin in his mortal life along with other classes. Palm was a 93rd level character before his Ascension, which honestly makes quite bit more powerful than the FR gods as written.
Pandelume 10-24-03, 08:13 AM	I sort of see where your coming from with Mystra alignment not been very well suited to be Goddess of "All" magic. But WOTC took carry of that problem when they made the Shadow weave. The trouble I am having with your general idea is that Mystra is not like a normal God\Godess she is the "Weave"; It's her body, so have these over God\Godess just took control over area of the weave. What I am trying to say is do these God\goddess have control over the specific geographical section of the weave, such Vast section of the weave or the Evermeet section of the weave, or is it more like Mystra has schizophrenia. ?
thalious 10-24-03, 08:37 AM	I am not sure yet how I will handle the Weave in regards to splitting it up between the gods of Magic. I am thinking that AO will seperate Mystra from the Weave and restore it to its "natural" state and then let each god Sponsor their Mages, thus taking greater responsibility for their casters and making it so each casters spell can be traced to their sponsored god. More input is appreciated. Thanks for the input thus far.
Pandelume 10-24-03, 07:11 PM	Well the weave in its natural(first state) state it is two proto-weaves, that where once part of Shar and Selune, but I not sure if weave became a goddess over time from its creation or was a Goddess as soon as it was made. But if I was Mystra and I could not ban mages from using my power, I would make a moving dead magic zone that would follow the caster around. :D Or I might start using Karsus Avater to drain these up start Gods of their power, thats a joke idea btw Mystra knows the spell but not sure she could or ever would use it. :) If you don't mind could you answer two questions. What are the over FR God\Goddess doing while these new God are draining Mystra of her power, or has your party killed them all? Does your werid version of Torli have the shadow weave ?
thalious 10-25-03, 02:59 PM	Originally posted by Pandelume What are the over FR God\Goddess doing while these new God are draining Mystra of her power, or has your party killed them all? Does your werid version of Torli have the shadow weave ? First, Mystra has not been weakened (she has not lost any Divine Rank) yet. Thus, the other gods are not just sitting by and watching this happen, because it is not yet happened. I am thinking on doing it. Yes my wierd version of Toril has a shadow weave. Thus far, it is not an issue IMC.
thalious 10-26-03, 04:56 PM	going to be playing tonight. How would Mystra go about trying to get Khelbens Soul released? Palm has the soul. Would she parlay Also, what would Khelbens' wife do? Thanx in advance.
thalious 10-28-03, 05:25 AM	Khelbens' Soul has been released by Palm in exchange for an agreement from Mystra that if she or her agents should capture one of his worshippers, they will return the worshipper back unto him. Talios was granted a wish and paid 50,000 in gold by Khelben. Later in the session, Talios and the Simbul had to join forces in order to drive the Tarrasque out of Waterdeep. Talios ended up Trapping its soul and bringing the battle to a conclusion. Seems like there will be peace between Mystra and Palm for now.
Darkmistress 10-28-03, 06:01 AM	I'm surprised. None of Khelben's allies did a thing? Talios was granted a wish and paid 50,000 in gold by Khelben. Why...?
thalious 10-28-03, 06:15 AM	Mystra followers did do something.... The Simbul continued to thwart Talios' efforts to build a stronghold by casting move earth upon the foundations of the walls each day, thus causing them collapse. Harpers continued to vandalize his property by carving their symbol upon his doors. And a priest of Mystra Hallowed the Site of Talios building site in the name of Mystra forcing Talios to get a Cleric of Palm to counter the effect and consecrate the ground unto Palm. Why did Khelben pay with a wish? His Soul was trapped by Talios and part of his release was to grant Talios one request. The 50,000 came from Khelbens wife... this was paid as a "service fee" for releasing Khelben. Khelbens' wife agreed to pay before Khelben was released.
Darkmistress 10-28-03, 06:19 AM	Ah. Thanks for sating my curiosity.
thalious 10-28-03, 06:31 AM	sorry for leaving out some of the details. there are more, but those are the highlights.