Knight of the Chalice [Archive] - Wizards Community

Knight of the Chalice [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cassius Harkanor
11-13-04, 10:09 PM im currently DM a Silverymoon campaign and one of the players, who is a shield dwarf paladin/Hammer of Moradin, wants to take this prestige class. While I see that this prestige class will be useful, my problem is that it does not fit in. Moradin would have no need to have a knightly order who specialise in fighting demon,s when other enemies still stand in the way (orcs, giants etc). The only god who might have such an order of knights is Tyr ?

Should I allow this PC to take this prestige class, or ask him to take something else ?
Cunning Linguist
11-14-04, 08:53 AM im currently DM a Silverymoon campaign and one of the players, who is a shield dwarf paladin/Hammer of Moradin, wants to take this prestige class. While I see that this prestige class will be useful, my problem is that it does not fit in. Moradin would have no need to have a knightly order who specialise in fighting demon,s when other enemies still stand in the way (orcs, giants etc). The only god who might have such an order of knights is Tyr ?

Should I allow this PC to take this prestige class, or ask him to take something else ?

PrC should fit the story, and not be a min/max tool. If you feel that it does not fit, then I would not let your player take that PrC.
Bloodtide_the_Red
11-14-04, 01:04 PM I'm not sure of the wording(or if they changed it in some 3.5 update I've not seen), but as having demeons as a favored enemy is a pequirement of this Pristage Class...you'd have to have at least one level of ranger to even take it(Or another such class with the Favored enemy class ability).

But anyway. Knights of the Chalice are not a set order with a patron god. They are more of a informal group of loners. So, in truth, each Lawful good god would have a couple. All LG gods hate demons after all.

And Mordian would very well want a order of demeon slayers. Think the orcs deal with demons? Yep, they do. Don't forget about the Tanarukks(halforc/half demons), for example. In a fight, a orc spellcaster would summon what?...a hound archon? a medium elemental?...or a dretch demon?

Demons are just as deadly to dwarves as they are to other creatures, so they could use some demon killers.

Though it does not even have to be a dwarven sect, it could be just a group of folks not aligned to any one god.

Dwarves are also open minded about the gods...so he could join the Clangeddin Knights of the Chalice.

BT
Lashan
11-14-04, 02:40 PM It's all up to the DM's interpretations. Personally, I only allow it as a PrC for a worshipper of Torm, the God of Paladins. I link the story of the Chalice to the history of Impiltur. The Triad Crusade went to save said country from the evil demons and creatures that arose from fallen Narfell. At the climactic battle around the Citadel of Conjurers, an angel was wounded and fell into the chalice. This item became the Chalice of the religious order. Personally, I think only worshippers of Torm should be allowed to take it. Torm is the god of paladins and several books says he has so many knightly orders that they are impossible to name. I figured that this is one of them.

Of course, this is only my humble opinion. If you feel that your dwarf shouldn't be able to take the PrC, then don't let them. PrC's aren't always readily available for the players. A little restriction isn't a bad thing.
GothicDan
11-14-04, 02:46 PM If the dwarf has had antagonistic dealings with demons during his history, and he has a mentor for it, allow him to take it. If he decides to make up a story on the spot about his character merely to take it, don't allow it; he should have thought of that in the first place, rather than being distracted by crunchy numbers.
Asche
11-14-04, 08:36 PM In my FR campaign, a player is also trying to take this PrC. Well, with the abundance of evil outsiders, and a whole lot of material backing up all kinds of abyssal layers etc., it only makes sense to have such an order.

I included it as an Order of paladins, clerics and fighters mostly, devoted to Helm, Torm or Tyr, with lots of squabbles between these factions. Actually made for a very good background, especially since my campaign deals with a story about the "leftovers" from Bhaal's time, which means even more Demons :p Just make sure the player knows how specialized this class is. While the spell list is ok, the abilities are tightly focused on hunting evil Outsiders.
Occams_Razor
11-28-04, 02:12 AM The character could also be the first member, the founder of the order. If he has some experience against demons, and could make a straight-faced argument that his character could arguably be able to focus on such development of combating demons. I typically am a little more liberal with PrCs as long as the player can justify having it, make him or her do the imagining, and work with them, unless it would unbalance the game, then just say no. But I think you shouldn't feel that you have to make the decision without any discussion, see if your player has a specific idea of how to make it fit with the character.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cassius Harkanor 11-13-04, 10:09 PM	im currently DM a Silverymoon campaign and one of the players, who is a shield dwarf paladin/Hammer of Moradin, wants to take this prestige class. While I see that this prestige class will be useful, my problem is that it does not fit in. Moradin would have no need to have a knightly order who specialise in fighting demon,s when other enemies still stand in the way (orcs, giants etc). The only god who might have such an order of knights is Tyr ? Should I allow this PC to take this prestige class, or ask him to take something else ?
Cunning Linguist 11-14-04, 08:53 AM	im currently DM a Silverymoon campaign and one of the players, who is a shield dwarf paladin/Hammer of Moradin, wants to take this prestige class. While I see that this prestige class will be useful, my problem is that it does not fit in. Moradin would have no need to have a knightly order who specialise in fighting demon,s when other enemies still stand in the way (orcs, giants etc). The only god who might have such an order of knights is Tyr ? Should I allow this PC to take this prestige class, or ask him to take something else ? PrC should fit the story, and not be a min/max tool. If you feel that it does not fit, then I would not let your player take that PrC.
Bloodtide_the_Red 11-14-04, 01:04 PM	I'm not sure of the wording(or if they changed it in some 3.5 update I've not seen), but as having demeons as a favored enemy is a pequirement of this Pristage Class...you'd have to have at least one level of ranger to even take it(Or another such class with the Favored enemy class ability). But anyway. Knights of the Chalice are not a set order with a patron god. They are more of a informal group of loners. So, in truth, each Lawful good god would have a couple. All LG gods hate demons after all. And Mordian would very well want a order of demeon slayers. Think the orcs deal with demons? Yep, they do. Don't forget about the Tanarukks(halforc/half demons), for example. In a fight, a orc spellcaster would summon what?...a hound archon? a medium elemental?...or a dretch demon? Demons are just as deadly to dwarves as they are to other creatures, so they could use some demon killers. Though it does not even have to be a dwarven sect, it could be just a group of folks not aligned to any one god. Dwarves are also open minded about the gods...so he could join the Clangeddin Knights of the Chalice. BT
Lashan 11-14-04, 02:40 PM	It's all up to the DM's interpretations. Personally, I only allow it as a PrC for a worshipper of Torm, the God of Paladins. I link the story of the Chalice to the history of Impiltur. The Triad Crusade went to save said country from the evil demons and creatures that arose from fallen Narfell. At the climactic battle around the Citadel of Conjurers, an angel was wounded and fell into the chalice. This item became the Chalice of the religious order. Personally, I think only worshippers of Torm should be allowed to take it. Torm is the god of paladins and several books says he has so many knightly orders that they are impossible to name. I figured that this is one of them. Of course, this is only my humble opinion. If you feel that your dwarf shouldn't be able to take the PrC, then don't let them. PrC's aren't always readily available for the players. A little restriction isn't a bad thing.
GothicDan 11-14-04, 02:46 PM	If the dwarf has had antagonistic dealings with demons during his history, and he has a mentor for it, allow him to take it. If he decides to make up a story on the spot about his character merely to take it, don't allow it; he should have thought of that in the first place, rather than being distracted by crunchy numbers.
Asche 11-14-04, 08:36 PM	In my FR campaign, a player is also trying to take this PrC. Well, with the abundance of evil outsiders, and a whole lot of material backing up all kinds of abyssal layers etc., it only makes sense to have such an order. I included it as an Order of paladins, clerics and fighters mostly, devoted to Helm, Torm or Tyr, with lots of squabbles between these factions. Actually made for a very good background, especially since my campaign deals with a story about the "leftovers" from Bhaal's time, which means even more Demons :p Just make sure the player knows how specialized this class is. While the spell list is ok, the abilities are tightly focused on hunting evil Outsiders.
Occams_Razor 11-28-04, 02:12 AM	The character could also be the first member, the founder of the order. If he has some experience against demons, and could make a straight-faced argument that his character could arguably be able to focus on such development of combating demons. I typically am a little more liberal with PrCs as long as the player can justify having it, make him or her do the imagining, and work with them, unless it would unbalance the game, then just say no. But I think you shouldn't feel that you have to make the decision without any discussion, see if your player has a specific idea of how to make it fit with the character.