Post/Author/DateTime	Post
createvmind 03-19-07, 11:18 PM	It's been confirmed in current Dragon magazine that the Morning Lord's temple in Myth Drannor is destroyed, I don't remember if it was mentioned in the novel. A calender of events for 1375 also mention other events in and around Cormanthor, thrashings are given out indiscrimantely it seems.
Old Sage 03-19-07, 11:26 PM	The destruction of Lathander's Dawnspire temple was noted in the novel, yes.
Lord Karsus 03-20-07, 09:26 AM	-Lathander probably deserved it.
Old Sage 03-20-07, 10:25 AM	You had better hope GD doesn't read that! :eek: :D
Lord Karsus 03-20-07, 01:16 PM	You had better hope GD doesn't read that! :eek: :D -Well, that Dan gets all disgruntled really doesn't change the fact that Lathander probably deserved to get licked. Without trying to sound especially vulgar...perhaps Dan is the one doing the licking?
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-20-07, 03:42 PM	The destruction of Lathander's Dawnspire temple was noted in the novel, yes. Was it noted in this book here? Final Gate If not, which one? Thanks!
msatran 03-20-07, 04:34 PM	The problem with this is that Baker didn't read the source material. There was an artifact in that temple that generated one wish PER PRIEST PER DAY, if Lathander deemed it necessary. And quite frankly, if I were Lathander, given his attitude, I would have deemed it necessary. The Fey'ri should have been screaming for their mommies and praying they didn't turn into a rain of slugs or something. That temple was ridiculous. And they referred to it as an easy victory. Not to mention the fact that there's a gate DIRECTLY to the Waterdeep temple complex also. I think they probably would have had a problem with that level of conflict. It's amazing how much stuff gets ignored "Because I say so."
Lord Karsus 03-20-07, 06:33 PM	The problem with this is that Baker didn't read the source material. It's amazing how much stuff gets ignored "Because I say so." -Yeah, it's not the first time in the Trilogy...:rolleyes:
Old Sage 03-20-07, 07:28 PM	Was it noted in this book here? Final Gate If not, which one? Thanks!As I recall, it was the final novel.
GothicDan 03-20-07, 07:33 PM	<3 for Lathander. That trilogy just seemed coincidentally aimed to hurt everything I hold dear.
bitter thorn 03-21-07, 04:03 AM	As I recall, it was the final novel. I didn't recall that. :confused: Bummer!
Lord Karsus 03-21-07, 09:27 AM	I didn't recall that. :confused: Bummer! -Well, Final Gate does wrap things up quite nicely. Wait. Alright, it doesn't, but it does provide closure. Somewhat. -There is also Realms of the Elves, which is the Anthology to the Last Mythal trilogy, and includes a few good stories.
Bolithio 03-21-07, 10:21 AM	-Lathander probably deserved it. Not sure who will make that judgment. Either way, Lathander will undoubtedly accept the razing of the temple as part of the cycle of life....
BrennonGoldeye 03-21-07, 10:46 AM	Mmm, not so much. Finder would accept it. Lath will avenge it. Bring about it's rebirth on the ashes of it's foes, so to speak.:)
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-21-07, 12:26 PM	Not sure who will make that judgment. Either way, Lathander will undoubtedly accept the razing of the temple as part of the cycle of life....I see Lathander being way more assertive in dealing with the destruction of his consecrated property and clergy. While we probably won't show rage in response to such an action, he will go off on a pontificating soliloquoy about his religion "being under attack" (heh, there's some modern day parallels there) and for the faithful to rebuild even bigger and better while seeking out the perpetrators of the heinous attacks in full force. Lathander is definitely that gung-ho. Especially as of late.
Lord Karsus 03-21-07, 02:15 PM	Not sure who will make that judgment. -I just did. ;)
msatran 03-21-07, 02:35 PM	Yeah, the question now is on whom? Will the church of Lathander go to war with the Elves? IMHO, if I were the church of Lathander, this would be a weighty issue to consider. On the one hand, the elves are the original "owners" of the property. On the other hand, that temple was bought, built, and paid for with the blood of Lathander's faithful. An easy victory over 18+ wishes a day, my fat !@#%%%@!@~! And now the Elves are laying claim to Lathander's consecrated ground? I'd be sending some emissaries to have a chat with them, preferably those who are PALADINS. And I'd send the most belligerent and angry paladins I could, too. And quite frankly, I think that Lathander's church has as much population as the entire elven nation, maybe more. I'd be concerned if a bunch of cranky lathanderites knocked on my door and said "Sirs, we would have words with thee over our sacred ground."
Alediran 03-21-07, 03:35 PM	Yeah, the question now is on whom? Will the church of Lathander go to war with the Elves? IMHO, if I were the church of Lathander, this would be a weighty issue to consider. On the one hand, the elves are the original "owners" of the property. On the other hand, that temple was bought, built, and paid for with the blood of Lathander's faithful. An easy victory over 18+ wishes a day, my fat !@#%%%@!@~! And now the Elves are laying claim to Lathander's consecrated ground? I'd be sending some emissaries to have a chat with them, preferably those who are PALADINS. And I'd send the most belligerent and angry paladins I could, too. And quite frankly, I think that Lathander's church has as much population as the entire elven nation, maybe more. I'd be concerned if a bunch of cranky lathanderites knocked on my door and said "Sirs, we would have words with thee over our sacred ground." Yeah, just the same population, but not as nearly as much arcane and divine power. The elves have a whole pantheon of gods exclusively looking for them, plus High Mages, Bladesingers and other things that the Lathanderites wold better consider before doing something s***** like that, not even counting that Lathander is on good terms with the Seldarine.
Khaelieth 03-21-07, 03:47 PM	Yeah, the question now is on whom? Will the church of Lathander go to war with the Elves? IMHO, if I were the church of Lathander, this would be a weighty issue to consider. On the one hand, the elves are the original "owners" of the property. On the other hand, that temple was bought, built, and paid for with the blood of Lathander's faithful. An easy victory over 18+ wishes a day, my fat !@#%%%@!@~! And now the Elves are laying claim to Lathander's consecrated ground? I'd be sending some emissaries to have a chat with them, preferably those who are PALADINS. And I'd send the most belligerent and angry paladins I could, too. And quite frankly, I think that Lathander's church has as much population as the entire elven nation, maybe more. I'd be concerned if a bunch of cranky lathanderites knocked on my door and said "Sirs, we would have words with thee over our sacred ground." But the Elves have the Sun Elves, proper magic wielders (none of this irresponsible wild or moon elf magic!)
Lord Karsus 03-21-07, 04:22 PM	-Heh, MSA, don't forget that a couple of Lanthander's faithful were killed during Araevin's quest. -Considering that in DR 1380, the Ilsevele becomes the coronal, that would mean that the city would have had to have been opened to all races again, since she would not have been bestowed the Elfblade had it not been. So, I am sure that everyone works things out peacefully.
Khaelieth 03-21-07, 05:44 PM	-Heh, MSA, don't forget that a couple of Lanthander's faithful were killed during Araevin's quest. -Considering that in DR 1380, the Ilsevele becomes the coronal, that would mean that the city would have had to have been opened to all races again, since she would not have been bestowed the Elfblade had it not been. So, I am sure that everyone works things out peacefully. Nooooo! We know what happens when lesser races come to Myth Drannor! It's like inviting neds (a U.K. phenomenon - white trash in track suits with nasal voices who are always looking for trouble) to a party!
Lord Karsus 03-21-07, 05:52 PM	Nooooo! We know what happens when lesser races come to Myth Drannor! It's like inviting neds (a U.K. phenomenon - white trash in track suits with nasal voices who are always looking for trouble) to a party! -I know, and I agree. But, not all of the Tel'Quessir are as enlightened as you and I.
Alediran 03-21-07, 07:28 PM	You should wait until a Tir'ent makes a statement about N'Tel'Quessir. We are the family with the greatest knowledge about them.
msatran 03-22-07, 02:53 AM	How can I put this? That kind of attitude is precisely the kind of crap that made me disgusted with the way elves are portrayed in the Realms these days. First of all, the phrase is "N'tel'qess." Not "N'tel'qessir." Just N'tel'qess. Elves don't even USE that phrase except under the most dire of circumstances, and you guys bandy it about like it's candy. It's the WORST insult you can possibly give anyone in elvish. Second of all, the convenient rearranging of source material to suit the needs of the novels greatly irritates me. Fortunately, in 2008, novels no longer equal sourcebooks. Read the wizards source material. Anauroch probably literally will sunder the world, though I don't know how the results will go. At that point, they'll probably freeze the timeline and let the players play. And I hope they do. I've been running the same Realms for 20 years. It's been hard to keep up with all the stuff and not go insane. Third of all, Elves get too much airtime. I'd love to see a story that actually focussed on more petty villainy. The Realms used to be a place of great "human epiphany stories." Now everything is cosmic. I'll be honest, though. George Krashos gives me hope after that wonderful Impiltur supplement in Dragon (Yes, George, I tout your virtues everywhere I can, because I respect your intelligence a lot) that you can still tell the human stories and the cosmic stuff at the same time. Cormyrian Farmer #2 may not be that important a character, but it's important, in order to understand the Realms, that you pass a hundred guys like him on the road to adventure every day. And that except for character level, your PC might not be much different from him... Only human...or something close...
Zsych 03-22-07, 06:52 AM	Hmm... I like msatran's attitude :) I also agree with a lot of what he says. (although I wouldn't be able to read an FR novel that didn't have mages in it :))
GothicDan 03-22-07, 07:15 AM	Not usually one to argue with Msatran, but... First of all, the phrase is "N'tel'qess." Not "N'tel'qessir." Just N'tel'qess. Elves don't even USE that phrase except under the most dire of circumstances, and you guys bandy it about like it's candy. It's the WORST insult you can possibly give anyone in elvish. N'Tel'Quessir are the 'Not People.' In the Evermeet and Cormanthyr sourcebooks, they make it very clear that this is not a term that is derogatory. It's more like them labeling something "red" and "not red." I'm not sure exactly where you're getting the idea that it's incredibly insulting from (not trying to seem trite, there). I'd say the WORST insults you could possibly give anyone in Elven is 'Dhaereow' or 'Vyshaan.' Anyway... I really like Elves. But I wouldn't be particularly upset if we saw nothing new from them in terms of actual books for a long time, other than in general updating them region by region (along with any other affected cultures in the region). And that much, only due to 3E basically deciding to send half the continent into crazy-land. As to Elves vs. humans? Well, I like a few specific cultures of Faerunian humanity, but overall I'd probably say that I truly like Sun Elven culture the most. Not because they're Elves, but because of what that culture is. However, I'd also note that anything having to deal directly with Sun Elves would be practically unheard of outside of a very few places (namely, Evermeet, Evereska, and Silverymoon).
msatran 03-22-07, 08:22 AM	Dan, I don't mean to be a schmendrick or jerky, but I think that's from Ed's original 1 ed source material on elves. That's where I got that piece of information. Old, but I believe still valid. :)
Lord Karsus 03-22-07, 09:27 AM	First of all, the phrase is "N'tel'qess." Not "N'tel'qessir." Just N'tel'qess. Elves don't even USE that phrase except under the most dire of circumstances, and you guys bandy it about like it's candy. It's the WORST insult you can possibly give anyone in elvish. -First of all, the term 'N'Tel'Quess' means 'Not Person'. The term 'N'Tel'Quessir' means 'Not People. One is the singular, and the other is the plural. Secondly, the term is not an insult as much as it is a statement. 'Quessir' means 'People', as in Elves. Humans, and anyone else who is not an Elf does not share the communal bond that all Elves share. Thus, they are N'Tel'Quessir, 'Not People'. It is not derogitory, nor is it meant to be. It is just a matter of fact. Third of all, Elves get too much airtime. I'd love to see a story that actually focussed on more petty villainy. -I'd like to see that too. It would be interesting to see, say, a one-shot about the Eldreth Veluuthra. If they ever make a series on 'The Rangers', I sure would like to see the Ev make an appearance.
The_Shaman 03-22-07, 09:55 AM	Ok, so then what is the probable Elven slur for non-elves? Dhaerouw and Vyshaan seem to have a strong connotation towards the sins of the two cultures, so they might be more specific. Is there a word an ignorant and arrogant elf would simply use to show his/her abhorrence of other races?
Lord Karsus 03-22-07, 05:31 PM	Ok, so then what is the probable Elven slur for non-elves? Is there a word an ignorant and arrogant elf would simply use to show his/her abhorrence of other races? -Towards Half-Elves, Elves have a few sayings: "Round Ear" and "Monkey Face". Zenar, and Elven term, is a slang for "Less than Half", again, puting Half-Elves down. Saurot, which is a slang for "Taint", theoretically can be applied towards Half-Elves, though it is normally reserved for food and drinks. And, of course, the Elven term for Half-Elves is A'Tel'Quessir, which does mean "Almost People" -Insults against Humans include, Hahlorkh , which means "UnElf-like Brutes and Savages" -"Dwarf Beard" is an Elf to Elf insult, but it certainly shows disdain towards Dwarves. -Slaugh, an insult directed towards Orcs, literally means "Mud Wallowing Dogs". -Another Elf-to-Elf insult is Lorkh , which literally means, "Savage Butchers who Lost Their Elven Nature Long Ago Through Such Behavior’. -That's really all I can think of...
Faraer 03-22-07, 06:48 PM	Some elves don't think much of non-elves. When they use N'Tel'Quess, it's sometimes derogatory, even if the term isn't inherently so. Elves may call humans "the Manyhanded" (as halflings also do, in reference to "the Manyhanded Curse"); drow "the Accursed".
GothicDan 03-23-07, 07:19 AM	I was just going to come here and mention that fact, Faraer - about inferences among the Elven language varying as much as human languages. I could see some using it in a derogatory fashion, since 'not Elven' would, in their minds, already be inherently lower.
The_Shaman 03-23-07, 10:24 PM	-Another Elf-to-Elf insult is Lorkh , which literally means, "Savage Butchers who Lost Their Elven Nature Long Ago Through Such Behavior’. Rather Pithy, I dare say :D .
Lord Karsus 03-25-07, 11:25 PM	Rather Pithy, I dare say :D . -Being pithy is one of the reasons why so many people appreciate Ed Greenwood's novels. ;)
msatran 03-27-07, 04:34 PM	As for that arrogant comment about Sun Elves, it doesn't matter whose magic is proper and who isn't. First of all, Sun elves is not actually correct, that's a "tropism" based on the fact that the main race of elves are "Moon" elves. They're still technically Gold Elves. So, Gold Elf or Sun Elf, he still gets a -2 CON, and let me tell you, when Lathander and his Masters of Radiance and all these other SUN people come to pay you a visit, along with those oh so wonderful SUNMASTERS who won't be feeling too friendly either, the only thing I have to say is... Destruction. Make a Fortitude save. :) What was that? Oh...Quickened Destruction. Do it again! While I realize that this probably wouldn't happen, the sheer amount of Elf-love vs. actually analyzing things and looking at them logically based on how Lathanderites behave only convinces me that somehow, the Elven reproductive rate secretly skyrocketed and no one told us, or someone here has VASTLY overestimated the total number of Elves in the realms. Plus, creepily enough, Lathander is the favored religion of many young nobles, who decide to go out on crusade fairly often because they need something to do. And woe be to the Elf who slays the son of a noble of any race, because people with lots of money can hire powerful adventurers. And I'm assuming, if you guys play the game like I do, that you know what those guys are like...
Lord Karsus 03-27-07, 05:20 PM	First of all, Sun elves is not actually correct, that's a "tropism" based on the fact that the main race of elves are "Moon" elves. They're still technically Gold Elves. -Even if you trace liniage as far back as you want, Sun Elves and Moon Elves have never been the same thing. With the earliest Faerūnian Elves, there were two distinct branches- Sharlario Moonflower, and his pale skined bretheren (Moon Elves), and Durothil, and his brone hued bretheren (Sun Elves). While I realize that this probably wouldn't happen, the sheer amount of Elf-love vs. actually analyzing things and looking at them logically based on how Lathanderites behave only convinces me that somehow, the Elven reproductive rate secretly skyrocketed and no one told us, or someone here has VASTLY overestimated the total number of Elves in the realms. -Well, the population of Evermeet alone is circa 1,658,880. The population of Evereska is circa 21,051. Now, those are only two Elven bastions, and you've got yourself about 2 million Elves. It's not a massive amount of bodies, but it's not a number to be trifled with, either. Plus, creepily enough, Lathander is the favored religion of many young nobles, who decide to go out on crusade fairly often because they need something to do. -Nice to be rich...:( And woe be to the Elf who slays the son of a noble of any race, because people with lots of money can hire powerful adventurers. And I'm assuming, if you guys play the game like I do, that you know what those guys are like... -Elaith Cranoulber has probably slain his fair share of foppish nobles over the years. He's still doing relativley well, last time we saw him. Power negates power. In foreign policy, it's called the Deterence Theory- If you have power, the other guy won't attack you. If the other guy has power, you won't attack him.
Khaelieth 03-27-07, 06:47 PM	and as to the destruction thingy... Spellturning! We've had centuries to study, you've barely had a few years!
bitter thorn 03-27-07, 09:36 PM	What are Sunmasters?
Old Sage 03-27-07, 09:59 PM	See the 'Sunmaster' section in Lost Empires of Faerūn.
bitter thorn 03-27-07, 10:03 PM	See the 'Sunmaster' section in Lost Empires of Faerūn. The PrC for the Amautror (sp) heresy, right? :doh:
Old Sage 03-27-07, 10:21 PM	Amaunator. And yes, that's the one. ;)
msatran 03-29-07, 02:18 PM	I have some bad news for you. Spell Turning is a less than optimal spell choice. And usually, once Destruction goes off, it usually has highly detrimental effects. You get to turn 1d10 spell levels. So that means you might not even GET to turn it. And then, if you do, you might turn it only partially, which means you could STILL be destroyed. Dead is dead, there's no partially dead effect. And as a cleric, his save WILL be better than yours. The only SURE way to stop Destruction is to cast Death Ward on yourself. And by the way, that's a...cleric spell. Heh...heh...heh... Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of elves because there is so much elf-love that other races get the short shrift. Do I like Dwarves better than I like elves? Sure! But apparently they have no interest in publishing anything new about them. Do I like Half-Orcs better than I like elves? No, but they get the short shrift completely. Do I like Halflings better than I like elves? Nnnh...doesn't really matter. But what I used to like is that ELVES WERE SPECIAL! Being ALLOWED to play one in the Realms used to be SPECIAL. Elves were RARE! And thanks to the BS of marketing, now there are millions of them, because elves are popular. I take a dim view of surrendering quality for market share.
Red_Wizard 03-29-07, 02:42 PM	Third of all, Elves get too much airtime. I'd love to see a story that actually focussed on more petty villainy. -I'd like to see that too. It would be interesting to see, say, a one-shot about the Eldreth Veluuthra. If they ever make a series on 'The Rangers', I sure would like to see the Ev make an appearance. And thus "The Watercourse Trilogy" Remains one of my personal Favourites, definitely looking forward to the final installment. Great story, minimal going ons, and makes you wish you had the second and then the third to jump into immediatly. This being said, I have room for one more big event in the form of the novel Unclean. Unless it turns out to be a complete failure, and everything remains unchanged as usual. :rolleyes: I do remain hopefully eager though :D
Alediran 03-29-07, 03:59 PM	I have some bad news for you. Spell Turning is a less than optimal spell choice. And usually, once Destruction goes off, it usually has highly detrimental effects. You get to turn 1d10 spell levels. So that means you might not even GET to turn it. And then, if you do, you might turn it only partially, which means you could STILL be destroyed. Dead is dead, there's no partially dead effect. And as a cleric, his save WILL be better than yours. Begining with the fact that the DC for clerical spells are never too high we should start with a lvl 20th cleric with 20 on Wis and 14 CON, wich confers a +5 to the save DC of his spells, Destruction is a 7th level spell, wich adds +7 to the DC, giving us a total DC of 22. Let's make a wizard at lvl 20 with 20 int and a usual 14 CON for the class. This character has a base Fortitude of +6, +2 bonus for concentration wich give us a total of +8 without spells. With Protection From Spell (Standar Action to cast) we have another +8 save vs spells and spell-like abilities we have a total of +16 Fortitude save, with that save you only need to get a roll of 6 or more to save against destruction. If you want to increase the saves we have a cantrip spell that gives +1 to all saves and can be quickened. A cloack of resistance +6 is an item that a 20th lvl wizard can afford without problem, and with it you only die with a natural 1. As you can see, there are other ways for an arcane caster to protect him/herself from common spells like Destruction wich don't need clerical spells.
Lord Karsus 03-29-07, 05:16 PM	Do I like Halflings better than I like elves? Nnnh...doesn't really matter. -That gave me a good laugh! :) And thus "The Watercourse Trilogy" Remains one of my personal Favourites, definitely looking forward to the final installment. Great story, minimal going ons, and makes you wish you had the second and then the third to jump into immediatly. -Could you provide a quick synopsis? The first book I can usually find at any of the many bookstores I go to, but I never really had much of an interest. But now, my curiosity is piqued.
msatran 03-30-07, 12:24 AM	Actually, more importantly, the Cleric can afford an inherent bonus of +5 to his Wisdom and a Periapt of Wisdom +6, so assuming he puts all his raises into Wisdom, that's a 28 Save DC. That's 16+5=21+5=26+6 for the periapt=32. And since no one has Craft Epic Wondrous Item for the 20th level guy and he can't get it until 21st, he still dies. :) However, I'd like to point out one other thing: The Watercourse Trilogy is awful. I hate these books. They're based on the work of Ayn Rand, which is like basing your work on the worst sort of novel. If they were based on the work of Faulkner, that's the right way to go about that sort of literariness. But they're not. That's not the sort of petty villainy I mean, though. I mean stories where the whole thing is about some imagined revenge which isn't real, or the supposed lost city the PC's have come to find is only tumbledown buildings, there IS no treasure, and the heroes return home empty-handed, wondering why they went. Everyone always assumes that adventurers are successful. But what if winning makes you feel like you lost? Good writing incorporates these ideas and elevates it. Feel good adventures are nice, but these novels could be so much more with the level of detail that Ed and others have put into the world.
The WarOverlord 03-30-07, 07:15 AM	................ Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of elves because there is so much elf-love that other races get the short shrift..... . Yeah. Never understood the fasination with beastiality either (Beastiality is have intimate relations with something outside your own Race/Species) and 1/2 Orcs, 1/2 Elves and other cross breeds of preverted Lust shouldn't be blamed for 1 or the other, if not both parent's perversion. but come on, How is a human Having sex with an Elf any different then when a Farmer does a Sheep?
Red_Wizard 03-30-07, 10:04 AM	-Could you provide a quick synopsis? The first book I can usually find at any of the many bookstores I go to, but I never really had much of an interest. But now, my curiosity is piqued. Well you have my good review, and now a less than pleasant one, so I won't have to worry about saying they're great, and you expecting to much, and being disappointed. :P Regardless, the quick gist of it is Three men, all from different places, all roughly different lifestyles, come to a city, each with their own plans to climb through the ranks of the society, and each for different reasons. Their is a forth, but his goals are odd, and refreshingly different. You have a Red Wizard from Thay, A fire Genasi born into poverty, and a noble born child, whose father took everything, and the family has lived on name alone. All in someway selfish, all wanting to be the major influencing force (or being force to want it) and they all get entangled into one another's webs. Many faces to each, so it makes their continued interaction interesting. The forth hails from the same place as the noble boy, but he built an unwanted name for himself, and while he could be a brilliantly hailed mind, he chooses to live below what most consider the bottom of the barrel:P lol, sounds kinda vague, and maybe not the best description, but I don't want to give away much beyond what is on the back of the books :P. Personally I was skeptical when buying the first one, as the general talent for story has seemed to degenerate as the years pass, but I was thoroughly surprised by the novels. And, best selling part for me, was no unnecessary goody goodyness. Hope this helps :)
Alediran 03-30-07, 03:08 PM	Actually, more importantly, the Cleric can afford an inherent bonus of +5 to his Wisdom and a Periapt of Wisdom +6, so assuming he puts all his raises into Wisdom, that's a 28 Save DC. That's 16+5=21+5=26+6 for the periapt=32. The stated cleric at lvl 20th with 20 WIS already had his 5 stats increases. If the cleric can have a periapt of wisdom +6 then we give the wizard a Pendant of Health +6 wich balances the +3 DC from the pendant by giving +3 Fortitude Save. P.D: the Wizard with a Wish Spell can wish for total inmunity against the spell Destruction therefore destroying your argument.
The Ubbergeek 03-30-07, 04:04 PM	Yeah. Never understood the fasination with beastiality either (Beastiality is have intimate relations with something outside your own Race/Species) and 1/2 Orcs, 1/2 Elves and other cross breeds of preverted Lust shouldn't be blamed for 1 or the other, if not both parent's perversion. but come on, How is a human Having sex with an Elf any different then when a Farmer does a Sheep? Elves are no beasts. They are sentient humanoids VERY close to humans. It's no bestiality - bestiality is taking an animal. Elves are 'humane'. That would be more xenosomething. Anyone would know the right term? (somehow) Seriously, is loving something that is much closer paradoxaly than monkeys to you perversion? Homosexuality was called (and is still...) a sin and as perversion, too. Good philosophical debate ("Are relations with sentient and 'compactible' 'alien' races wrong?") Perhaps love is love, and be it Warcraft, Forgotten Realms, etc... if the one that make you happy and well if not human, well... If elves and all where not imaginary beings, it would be like the guys who argue against our 'racial' miscegenation... Very uncomfortable discussion, to say the least.
Khaelieth 03-30-07, 05:20 PM	Elves are no beasts. They are sentient humanoids VERY close to humans. It's no bestiality - bestiality is taking an animal. Elves are 'humane'. That would be more xenosomething. Anyone would know the right term? (somehow) Seriously, is loving something that is much closer paradoxaly than monkeys to you perversion? Homosexuality was called (and is still...) a sin and as perversion, too. Good philosophical debate ("Are relations with sentient and 'compactible' 'alien' races wrong?") Perhaps love is love, and be it Warcraft, Forgotten Realms, etc... if the one that make you happy and well if not human, well... If elves and all where not imaginary beings, it would be like the guys who argue against our 'racial' miscegenation... Very uncomfortable discussion, to say the least. Which brings up polymorphed old wizards and fine Hordeland horses.
Lord Karsus 03-31-07, 12:00 AM	That would be more xenosomething. Anyone would know the right term? -Don't know, maybe Xenosexuality...? Xenophelia...? -I looked up "Beastiality" on Wikipedia, and I feel slightly nauseated after reading all that, and looking at some of those paintings. Blech...:yuck: