Lembas? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Lembas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ValiantCavalier
09-16-03, 05:26 PM Do Elves or any other race have some sort of form, of Lembas in the Forgotten Realms or is that just a LOTR thing?
Zeddicus_Ralh
09-16-03, 05:30 PM i think its just a lord of the rings thing, never read about nething like that before, at least not sumthing specifcaly made by elfs, but i am an idiot, so who knows.
WayneTheGame
09-16-03, 07:28 PM I don't recall 100%, but I think that in the FR elves have some type of bread that is basically Lembas bread. I think it was in the old Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue (best. supplement. ever. I pray for a new version), and was only made in Evermeet.
Mean Eyed Cat
09-17-03, 01:08 AM You're correct WayneTheGame. In Aurora's, it mentions an "Elven Bread" from Evermeet.

"This bread acts double-strength iron rations, providing twice the food value with half the weight (and many times more taste!)."
Darkmistress
09-17-03, 03:33 AM *bangs head against desk* Yet another thing for Tolkien zealots to point and yell: Tolkien rip-off, Tolkien rip-off!
Zeddicus_Ralh
09-17-03, 02:28 PM its not quite the same as ripping tolkien off, he practically created the entire fantasy genre, so to say lembas was ripped off, its the same as saying elves and dwarfs are ripped off, cuz he was the one who created the indepth personalities and histories that we base our gaming off of now. Right???
Kuje31
09-17-03, 02:40 PM Originally posted by Zeddicus_Ralh
its not quite the same as ripping tolkien off, he practically created the entire fantasy genre, so to say lembas was ripped off, its the same as saying elves and dwarfs are ripped off, cuz he was the one who created the indepth personalities and histories that we base our gaming off of now. Right???

Wrong, soooooooo very wrong. TOLKIEN DID NOT INVENT FANTASY!. Sorry to yell that, but this thinking is sooooo wrong. He made it popular granted but he did NOT invent fantasy. Fantasy existed decades to centuries before he took many of earths real life stories from many different cultures, like the Norse, and the Celts, and turned them into a story and a world.
Grognard the Mighty
09-17-03, 02:48 PM Tolkien did not invent the fantasy genre. He can be said to have invented the modern fantasy genre.

D&D is a rip off of Tolkien to be sure, but it is also a rip off of many other very talented writers as well.
Savras
09-17-03, 03:39 PM And of many mythologies.

Savras
ValiantCavalier
09-17-03, 04:58 PM Tolkien didn't invent the Fantasy genre, but FR is definately based on LOTR. But not everything was taken from Tolkien's world, so I was ust wondering i thy did take that.
Murray Leeder
09-17-03, 05:23 PM Originally posted by Grognard the Mighty
[B]Tolkien did not invent the fantasy genre. He can be said to have invented the modern fantasy genre.

Perhaps, but let's not forget that the label "sword and sorcery" was invented not to describe Tolkien but Robert E. Howard and his ilk, several decades earlier.
Gellion
09-17-03, 06:22 PM I would say D&D took more from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, and Robert E. Howard thatn it did Tolkien. The magic system is practically straight from Vances books. And i guess in a way H.P. Lovecraft as well, although not as much as the others.
Grognard the Mighty
09-17-03, 07:18 PM I would say D&D took more from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, and Robert E. Howard thatn it did Tolkien.

Try finding one of the copies of the game pre-Tolkien estate lawsuit.
ValiantCavalier
09-17-03, 07:21 PM ehh?
lithian lightfoot
09-17-03, 07:25 PM I have found in my little brain that Tolkien has had a large impact upon the Realms (and D&D) in general in these area':

History- Tolkien greated the first major indepth historical novels. They were not only filled with great adventures, but with the names of history behind them made the world a lot more real than earlier fantasy. It is similar to Arthur's tale. The reason everyone loves it so much is because there is history to it.
The realms has a lot of history to it and it seperates the D&D games for me. It is simply the best part about the realms, all the history to discover and let your mind enjoy.

The elves- Prior to Tolkien the elves were always short little norse fellows. The current elves we know of in D&D have come from him.

Epicness- Pre Tolkien eras had nothing on the epic value that Tolkien placed in his books. And it may or may not be a shame to say this but most of the D&D games out there are epic. They either change a country, a world or the gods themselves. There are few games that change one persons life and no one elses. This is also from Tolkien, the epicness of it all.
ValiantCavalier
09-17-03, 07:44 PM By the way, what is Lembas made of? Wheat +2?
Gellion
09-17-03, 07:49 PM Originally posted by Grognard the Mighty
I would say D&D took more from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, and Robert E. Howard thatn it did Tolkien.

Try finding one of the copies of the game pre-Tolkien estate lawsuit.

I know about the Hobbits and Balrogs. But from what i have seen, it still takes much more from the above authors than it does Tolkien.
Kuje31
09-17-03, 08:31 PM Originally posted by Gellion
I know about the Hobbits and Balrogs. But from what i have seen, it still takes much more from the above authors than it does Tolkien.

Btw, most people still dont know he didn't invent Hobbits. They were written down in 19th century folklore or before. And they were a fairy race.

So I say it again. Tolkien pretty much borrowed every thing he wrote about from Real World legends. The Shee from the Celts (which are also elves btw) were also man sized. Not all elves where small creatures. Even some of the the Norse elves were also as tall as humans.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/hobbits.html

This is taken from the above site.

Since this article was written, we've discovered that the name 'hobbit' goes back far further than even Tolkien suspected. We're indebted to Mark Blanton for sending along a long list of magical beings collected by a certain Michael Aislabie Denham before the year 1859. In the middle of this list, among the 'boggleboes', 'freiths' and 'wirrikows' lies the term 'hobbits'. Even more remarkably, the list predates even the nineteenth century - it was apparently taken from an even earlier work, Discovery of Witchcraft, dated 1584.
Eldarion Elenath
09-18-03, 04:57 PM So how much does this double-strength, half-weight ELven Bread cost?
Kuje31
09-18-03, 05:26 PM Originally posted by Eldarion Elenath
So how much does this double-strength, half-weight ELven Bread cost?

2 Gold Pieces a loaf. :)
Tempus665
09-19-03, 04:14 AM And what happens when elves find out some half-demented half-elf is selling cheap immitation lembas?
Zeed
09-19-03, 04:26 AM Then the elvish Mafia comes in and shakes him up a bit :smirk:
ValiantCavalier
09-24-03, 07:40 PM How do you make Lembas? Say I wanted or one of my elven companions wanted to make it.
Conan
09-24-03, 10:27 PM Originally posted by Murray Leeder
Perhaps, but let's not forget that the label "sword and sorcery" was invented not to describe Tolkien but Robert E. Howard and his ilk, several decades earlier.
I agree. It was Howard that I inspired to write about me, so you may all bow down and worship the might that is CONAN. (Destined to wear the triple crown of aquilonia upon a troubled brow. But that is another story.) :D

And let's not forget that one of Tolkien's main reasons for writing the LoTR/Silmarillion etc, was to create an English mythology, that he believed had been lost when the Norman's invaded England. So in doing so he borrowed heavily from many sources. Most notably the Celtic and Norse myths.
So anyway, FR is very tolkienesque in overview, but that doesn't mean that tolkien is the be-all-and-end-all in the borrowed stakes.

So in true Conan fashion I say to the Tolkien-created-FR fanboys, "Hmmph. Crom is better than this tolkien of which you speak.".
Adrian Moonbow
09-26-03, 01:51 AM Originally posted by lithian lightfoot
Epicness- Pre Tolkien eras had nothing on the epic value that Tolkien placed in his books. And it may or may not be a shame to say this but most of the D&D games out there are epic. They either change a country, a world or the gods themselves. There are few games that change one persons life and no one elses. This is also from Tolkien, the epicness of it all.

One word: Beowulf!:)
Conan
09-26-03, 01:53 AM Originally posted by Adrian Moonbow
One word: Beowulf!:)
Ooer... Nice one. :tiphat:
Darkmistress
09-26-03, 04:34 AM Originally posted by lithian lightfoot

Epicness- Pre Tolkien eras had nothing on the epic value that Tolkien placed in his books. And it may or may not be a shame to say this but most of the D&D games out there are epic. They either change a country, a world or the gods themselves. There are few games that change one persons life and no one elses. This is also from Tolkien, the epicness of it all.

Muh?

A D&D game may or may not be epic depending on the DM/players, methinks. If it's epic, it's because the DM wants his players to have the spotlight, or have a huge sense of accomplishment. Those games, however, are not canon.

Look at the actual canon of FR. The novels. The novels that focus on "minor" adventures outnumber the Realms-shaking ones by, well, a lot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ValiantCavalier 09-16-03, 05:26 PM	Do Elves or any other race have some sort of form, of Lembas in the Forgotten Realms or is that just a LOTR thing?
Zeddicus_Ralh 09-16-03, 05:30 PM	i think its just a lord of the rings thing, never read about nething like that before, at least not sumthing specifcaly made by elfs, but i am an idiot, so who knows.
WayneTheGame 09-16-03, 07:28 PM	I don't recall 100%, but I think that in the FR elves have some type of bread that is basically Lembas bread. I think it was in the old Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue (best. supplement. ever. I pray for a new version), and was only made in Evermeet.
Mean Eyed Cat 09-17-03, 01:08 AM	You're correct WayneTheGame. In Aurora's, it mentions an "Elven Bread" from Evermeet. "This bread acts double-strength iron rations, providing twice the food value with half the weight (and many times more taste!)."
Darkmistress 09-17-03, 03:33 AM	bangs head against desk Yet another thing for Tolkien zealots to point and yell: Tolkien rip-off, Tolkien rip-off!
Zeddicus_Ralh 09-17-03, 02:28 PM	its not quite the same as ripping tolkien off, he practically created the entire fantasy genre, so to say lembas was ripped off, its the same as saying elves and dwarfs are ripped off, cuz he was the one who created the indepth personalities and histories that we base our gaming off of now. Right???
Kuje31 09-17-03, 02:40 PM	Originally posted by Zeddicus_Ralh its not quite the same as ripping tolkien off, he practically created the entire fantasy genre, so to say lembas was ripped off, its the same as saying elves and dwarfs are ripped off, cuz he was the one who created the indepth personalities and histories that we base our gaming off of now. Right??? Wrong, soooooooo very wrong. TOLKIEN DID NOT INVENT FANTASY!. Sorry to yell that, but this thinking is sooooo wrong. He made it popular granted but he did NOT invent fantasy. Fantasy existed decades to centuries before he took many of earths real life stories from many different cultures, like the Norse, and the Celts, and turned them into a story and a world.
Grognard the Mighty 09-17-03, 02:48 PM	Tolkien did not invent the fantasy genre. He can be said to have invented the modern fantasy genre. D&D is a rip off of Tolkien to be sure, but it is also a rip off of many other very talented writers as well.
Savras 09-17-03, 03:39 PM	And of many mythologies. Savras
ValiantCavalier 09-17-03, 04:58 PM	Tolkien didn't invent the Fantasy genre, but FR is definately based on LOTR. But not everything was taken from Tolkien's world, so I was ust wondering i thy did take that.
Murray Leeder 09-17-03, 05:23 PM	Originally posted by Grognard the Mighty [B]Tolkien did not invent the fantasy genre. He can be said to have invented the modern fantasy genre. Perhaps, but let's not forget that the label "sword and sorcery" was invented not to describe Tolkien but Robert E. Howard and his ilk, several decades earlier.
Gellion 09-17-03, 06:22 PM	I would say D&D took more from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, and Robert E. Howard thatn it did Tolkien. The magic system is practically straight from Vances books. And i guess in a way H.P. Lovecraft as well, although not as much as the others.
Grognard the Mighty 09-17-03, 07:18 PM	I would say D&D took more from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, and Robert E. Howard thatn it did Tolkien. Try finding one of the copies of the game pre-Tolkien estate lawsuit.
ValiantCavalier 09-17-03, 07:21 PM	ehh?
lithian lightfoot 09-17-03, 07:25 PM	I have found in my little brain that Tolkien has had a large impact upon the Realms (and D&D) in general in these area': History- Tolkien greated the first major indepth historical novels. They were not only filled with great adventures, but with the names of history behind them made the world a lot more real than earlier fantasy. It is similar to Arthur's tale. The reason everyone loves it so much is because there is history to it. The realms has a lot of history to it and it seperates the D&D games for me. It is simply the best part about the realms, all the history to discover and let your mind enjoy. The elves- Prior to Tolkien the elves were always short little norse fellows. The current elves we know of in D&D have come from him. Epicness- Pre Tolkien eras had nothing on the epic value that Tolkien placed in his books. And it may or may not be a shame to say this but most of the D&D games out there are epic. They either change a country, a world or the gods themselves. There are few games that change one persons life and no one elses. This is also from Tolkien, the epicness of it all.
ValiantCavalier 09-17-03, 07:44 PM	By the way, what is Lembas made of? Wheat +2?
Gellion 09-17-03, 07:49 PM	Originally posted by Grognard the Mighty I would say D&D took more from Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, and Robert E. Howard thatn it did Tolkien. Try finding one of the copies of the game pre-Tolkien estate lawsuit. I know about the Hobbits and Balrogs. But from what i have seen, it still takes much more from the above authors than it does Tolkien.
Kuje31 09-17-03, 08:31 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I know about the Hobbits and Balrogs. But from what i have seen, it still takes much more from the above authors than it does Tolkien. Btw, most people still dont know he didn't invent Hobbits. They were written down in 19th century folklore or before. And they were a fairy race. So I say it again. Tolkien pretty much borrowed every thing he wrote about from Real World legends. The Shee from the Celts (which are also elves btw) were also man sized. Not all elves where small creatures. Even some of the the Norse elves were also as tall as humans. http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/hobbits.html This is taken from the above site. Since this article was written, we've discovered that the name 'hobbit' goes back far further than even Tolkien suspected. We're indebted to Mark Blanton for sending along a long list of magical beings collected by a certain Michael Aislabie Denham before the year 1859. In the middle of this list, among the 'boggleboes', 'freiths' and 'wirrikows' lies the term 'hobbits'. Even more remarkably, the list predates even the nineteenth century - it was apparently taken from an even earlier work, Discovery of Witchcraft, dated 1584.
Eldarion Elenath 09-18-03, 04:57 PM	So how much does this double-strength, half-weight ELven Bread cost?
Kuje31 09-18-03, 05:26 PM	Originally posted by Eldarion Elenath So how much does this double-strength, half-weight ELven Bread cost? 2 Gold Pieces a loaf. :)
Tempus665 09-19-03, 04:14 AM	And what happens when elves find out some half-demented half-elf is selling cheap immitation lembas?
Zeed 09-19-03, 04:26 AM	Then the elvish Mafia comes in and shakes him up a bit :smirk:
ValiantCavalier 09-24-03, 07:40 PM	How do you make Lembas? Say I wanted or one of my elven companions wanted to make it.
Conan 09-24-03, 10:27 PM	Originally posted by Murray Leeder Perhaps, but let's not forget that the label "sword and sorcery" was invented not to describe Tolkien but Robert E. Howard and his ilk, several decades earlier. I agree. It was Howard that I inspired to write about me, so you may all bow down and worship the might that is CONAN. (Destined to wear the triple crown of aquilonia upon a troubled brow. But that is another story.) :D And let's not forget that one of Tolkien's main reasons for writing the LoTR/Silmarillion etc, was to create an English mythology, that he believed had been lost when the Norman's invaded England. So in doing so he borrowed heavily from many sources. Most notably the Celtic and Norse myths. So anyway, FR is very tolkienesque in overview, but that doesn't mean that tolkien is the be-all-and-end-all in the borrowed stakes. So in true Conan fashion I say to the Tolkien-created-FR fanboys, "Hmmph. Crom is better than this tolkien of which you speak.".
Adrian Moonbow 09-26-03, 01:51 AM	Originally posted by lithian lightfoot Epicness- Pre Tolkien eras had nothing on the epic value that Tolkien placed in his books. And it may or may not be a shame to say this but most of the D&D games out there are epic. They either change a country, a world or the gods themselves. There are few games that change one persons life and no one elses. This is also from Tolkien, the epicness of it all. One word: Beowulf!:)
Conan 09-26-03, 01:53 AM	Originally posted by Adrian Moonbow One word: Beowulf!:) Ooer... Nice one. :tiphat:
Darkmistress 09-26-03, 04:34 AM	Originally posted by lithian lightfoot Epicness- Pre Tolkien eras had nothing on the epic value that Tolkien placed in his books. And it may or may not be a shame to say this but most of the D&D games out there are epic. They either change a country, a world or the gods themselves. There are few games that change one persons life and no one elses. This is also from Tolkien, the epicness of it all. Muh? A D&D game may or may not be epic depending on the DM/players, methinks. If it's epic, it's because the DM wants his players to have the spotlight, or have a huge sense of accomplishment. Those games, however, are not canon. Look at the actual canon of FR. The novels. The novels that focus on "minor" adventures outnumber the Realms-shaking ones by, well, a lot.