Lich's Salient Powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lich's Salient Powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Watchman
07-11-05, 12:04 PM Can anyone tell me if Forgotten Realms offers a list of salient powers to use (choose from) when creating a lich character? The Ravenloft series does. I have that list, but wasn't sure if "FG" did and, if so, if it was a different list. If there is such a list can this be provided for review?

This site offers a good lich template to go with, but does not include salient powers. You would think this would be a part of the process since such things flesh out the characters/creatures for play.

Thanks!
LichSathas
07-11-05, 12:33 PM I haven't seen anything like the old Ravenloft stuff to use for liches in FR (which is sad because the van Richten guides were such awesome books, even if you weren't using the info directly they were just great sit down reads). The closest you could probably come is Libris Mortis's spells and feats. The only problem is that mostly they are all generic with very few that can only be taken by certain undead (ie: the undead having a certain energy drain attack or whatnot). A Lich that uses the Necrotic Cyst spells would just be plain deadly (errr...deadlier lol).

All the stuff presented in the guides would work since nothing I can recall were 'domain' or 'Ravenloft' specific. They just represented how each creature can be different or develop diffrently than the run of the mill monster. If anything the salient powers I would use only for liches that were exceedingly old and probably had over 18 levels of spell caster.

One thing though is that if you use both Libris Mortis AND Richten's guide you run the risk of really overpowering the monster. In other words if you use Richten's guide I would stay away from libris's feats and prestige classes (but use the spells) and vice versa. Some of the salient powers were a bit more powerful than Libris' feats and stuff so balancing them out for 3.5 might be slightly challenging but still worth it imo.

Sathas
The Watchman
07-11-05, 01:13 PM I haven't seen anything like the old Ravenloft stuff to use for liches in FR (which is sad because the van Richten guides were such awesome books, even if you weren't using the info directly they were just great sit down reads). The closest you could probably come is Libris Mortis's spells and feats. The only problem is that mostly they are all generic with very few that can only be taken by certain undead (ie: the undead having a certain energy drain attack or whatnot). A Lich that uses the Necrotic Cyst spells would just be plain deadly (errr...deadlier lol).

All the stuff presented in the guides would work since nothing I can recall were 'domain' or 'Ravenloft' specific. They just represented how each creature can be different or develop diffrently than the run of the mill monster. If anything the salient powers I would use only for liches that were exceedingly old and probably had over 18 levels of spell caster.

One thing though is that if you use both Libris Mortis AND Richten's guide you run the risk of really overpowering the monster. In other words if you use Richten's guide I would stay away from libris's feats and prestige classes (but use the spells) and vice versa. Some of the salient powers were a bit more powerful than Libris' feats and stuff so balancing them out for 3.5 might be slightly challenging but still worth it imo.

Sathas

Thanks for the reply. I'm not familiar with Libris Mortis. Is there a list of "special" powers and their descriptions available for review w/o having to buy the whole book? That is what I was hoping to find, but searches on the internet can yield a bunch of meaningless reviews, etc that tell you nothing.

--
Shandrakor
07-11-05, 01:32 PM LM is more PrCs, nifty feats, etc -- nothing particularly great for a lich. The best lich is now the Dry Lich, which can be had via the Walker in the Waste PrC or for a +5 LA. IIRC the Banelich & the Baelnorn were FR-specific liches...but IDHMBWMATM, so I can't tell you which book they were in. I'm thinking Monster of Faerun...

If you run a search on the main Wizards site they'll give you a preview; not great but you get a sense of it. Recommendation: Head over to your FLGS & thumb through a copy. If you like it, buy it. If not, use the Ravenloft stuff.
Trance Kuja
07-11-05, 01:45 PM You are correct it is in Monsters of Faerun. It lists some extra powers the DM can grant liches to make them a little more unique and had a few examples of specific lich varients such as the Archlich (a good or neutral human lich), Baelnorn(good elven liches who guard elven ruins or serve as protector's of their living descendents) and Baneliches (high priests of bane transformed by the power of Bane himself). Also if you are making a priest lich you could also add the Spell Stitched Template from Complete Arcane to give him some spell-like abilities, or if for any type of lich you can add the Evolved Undead template from libris mortis if it is old enough for some spell-like abilites, stat boosts, and fast healing. I personally think the basic lich template from MM is too weak considering the high LA, but then again you are effectively immortal as long as you can outsmart everyone else when it comes to hiding your phylactery.
The Watchman
07-12-05, 07:00 AM Thanks all...
Osieu
07-12-05, 09:11 AM In fact, most of the salient powers in Monsters of Faerun are exactly same powers from Van's Guide to Liches... :P
The Watchman
07-12-05, 10:56 AM In fact, most of the salient powers in Monsters of Faerun are exactly same powers from Van's Guide to Liches... :P

Ok...that's what i was curious to know...good deal...and then again, DMs have the freedom to make changes to suit their campaign too...so you don't have to stick only to what the defaults are...
Shandrakor
07-15-05, 12:46 AM I personally think the basic lich template from MM is too weak considering the high LA, but then again you are effectively immortal as long as you can outsmart everyone else when it comes to hiding your phylactery.

I concur that it's far too high for the LA. As a DM I love them, but if I ever get the chance to play a spellcaster of a level appropriate for Lichdom, I'll put it off until level 20, then use it for the conclusion of the campaign -- unless we're going Epic, in which case the PC uses it as a stepping-stone to Demilichdom. (Which IS actually worth the LA).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Watchman 07-11-05, 12:04 PM	Can anyone tell me if Forgotten Realms offers a list of salient powers to use (choose from) when creating a lich character? The Ravenloft series does. I have that list, but wasn't sure if "FG" did and, if so, if it was a different list. If there is such a list can this be provided for review? This site offers a good lich template to go with, but does not include salient powers. You would think this would be a part of the process since such things flesh out the characters/creatures for play. Thanks!
LichSathas 07-11-05, 12:33 PM	I haven't seen anything like the old Ravenloft stuff to use for liches in FR (which is sad because the van Richten guides were such awesome books, even if you weren't using the info directly they were just great sit down reads). The closest you could probably come is Libris Mortis's spells and feats. The only problem is that mostly they are all generic with very few that can only be taken by certain undead (ie: the undead having a certain energy drain attack or whatnot). A Lich that uses the Necrotic Cyst spells would just be plain deadly (errr...deadlier lol). All the stuff presented in the guides would work since nothing I can recall were 'domain' or 'Ravenloft' specific. They just represented how each creature can be different or develop diffrently than the run of the mill monster. If anything the salient powers I would use only for liches that were exceedingly old and probably had over 18 levels of spell caster. One thing though is that if you use both Libris Mortis AND Richten's guide you run the risk of really overpowering the monster. In other words if you use Richten's guide I would stay away from libris's feats and prestige classes (but use the spells) and vice versa. Some of the salient powers were a bit more powerful than Libris' feats and stuff so balancing them out for 3.5 might be slightly challenging but still worth it imo. Sathas
The Watchman 07-11-05, 01:13 PM	I haven't seen anything like the old Ravenloft stuff to use for liches in FR (which is sad because the van Richten guides were such awesome books, even if you weren't using the info directly they were just great sit down reads). The closest you could probably come is Libris Mortis's spells and feats. The only problem is that mostly they are all generic with very few that can only be taken by certain undead (ie: the undead having a certain energy drain attack or whatnot). A Lich that uses the Necrotic Cyst spells would just be plain deadly (errr...deadlier lol). All the stuff presented in the guides would work since nothing I can recall were 'domain' or 'Ravenloft' specific. They just represented how each creature can be different or develop diffrently than the run of the mill monster. If anything the salient powers I would use only for liches that were exceedingly old and probably had over 18 levels of spell caster. One thing though is that if you use both Libris Mortis AND Richten's guide you run the risk of really overpowering the monster. In other words if you use Richten's guide I would stay away from libris's feats and prestige classes (but use the spells) and vice versa. Some of the salient powers were a bit more powerful than Libris' feats and stuff so balancing them out for 3.5 might be slightly challenging but still worth it imo. Sathas Thanks for the reply. I'm not familiar with Libris Mortis. Is there a list of "special" powers and their descriptions available for review w/o having to buy the whole book? That is what I was hoping to find, but searches on the internet can yield a bunch of meaningless reviews, etc that tell you nothing. --
Shandrakor 07-11-05, 01:32 PM	LM is more PrCs, nifty feats, etc -- nothing particularly great for a lich. The best lich is now the Dry Lich, which can be had via the Walker in the Waste PrC or for a +5 LA. IIRC the Banelich & the Baelnorn were FR-specific liches...but IDHMBWMATM, so I can't tell you which book they were in. I'm thinking Monster of Faerun... If you run a search on the main Wizards site they'll give you a preview; not great but you get a sense of it. Recommendation: Head over to your FLGS & thumb through a copy. If you like it, buy it. If not, use the Ravenloft stuff.
Trance Kuja 07-11-05, 01:45 PM	You are correct it is in Monsters of Faerun. It lists some extra powers the DM can grant liches to make them a little more unique and had a few examples of specific lich varients such as the Archlich (a good or neutral human lich), Baelnorn(good elven liches who guard elven ruins or serve as protector's of their living descendents) and Baneliches (high priests of bane transformed by the power of Bane himself). Also if you are making a priest lich you could also add the Spell Stitched Template from Complete Arcane to give him some spell-like abilities, or if for any type of lich you can add the Evolved Undead template from libris mortis if it is old enough for some spell-like abilites, stat boosts, and fast healing. I personally think the basic lich template from MM is too weak considering the high LA, but then again you are effectively immortal as long as you can outsmart everyone else when it comes to hiding your phylactery.
The Watchman 07-12-05, 07:00 AM	Thanks all...
Osieu 07-12-05, 09:11 AM	In fact, most of the salient powers in Monsters of Faerun are exactly same powers from Van's Guide to Liches... :P
The Watchman 07-12-05, 10:56 AM	In fact, most of the salient powers in Monsters of Faerun are exactly same powers from Van's Guide to Liches... :P Ok...that's what i was curious to know...good deal...and then again, DMs have the freedom to make changes to suit their campaign too...so you don't have to stick only to what the defaults are...
Shandrakor 07-15-05, 12:46 AM	I personally think the basic lich template from MM is too weak considering the high LA, but then again you are effectively immortal as long as you can outsmart everyone else when it comes to hiding your phylactery. I concur that it's far too high for the LA. As a DM I love them, but if I ever get the chance to play a spellcaster of a level appropriate for Lichdom, I'll put it off until level 20, then use it for the conclusion of the campaign -- unless we're going Epic, in which case the PC uses it as a stepping-stone to Demilichdom. (Which IS actually worth the LA).