Lloth and spiders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lloth and spiders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Derreek
07-14-07, 02:09 AM Mmmmk...Loth loves spiders correct...do you think she'll get mad if a drow kill's a spider? ...Like smiting mad? Or how about spiders that are considered weak? Your opinions.
Zsych
07-14-07, 02:32 AM As far as I know, all spiders are considered holy. And Lloth seems to be fairly aware of what her worshippers do(or maybe as with Drizzt's case, she is able to detect heretical actions and such). So I think someone who killed a spider would likely be detected(maybe by his own religious guilt).

She may or may not decide to cause trouble for him(or rather, be displeased with his family).

I think most drow would start begging their goddess for forgiveness, and maybe offer a personal sacrifice in such a case.

Also, it is my opinion that if a drow does not worship Lloth, then Lloth may well not know about the act(so if you're not seen in the act, by a soon to be wrathful Lloth worshipper... you should be safe enough).
Psionycx
07-14-07, 06:45 AM It has always been depicted that it is considered blasphemy amongst Lolthite drow to harm or kill spiders. I remember in Elaine Cunningham's novel Daughter of the Drow Liriel Baenre becomes enraged when human Fyodor kills one. It's an ingrained cultural reaction.

Now, as to whether or not Lolth herself will react is open to question. She certainly won't approve, but I doubt she will "smite" the individual any more than Sune unleashes wrath on anyone that tramples a flower bed. Gods rarely waste their power so casually.

However, the act might count negatively towards the individual as regards matters of remaining in her favor. And of course she would fully expect any devout worshipper of her's to act against the person in question.
BadCatMan
07-14-07, 07:14 AM Lloth herself has done a deal with Laduguer that allows the duergar to breed and ride steeders, the large riding spiders (what she got out of the deal I don't know).

These steeders are no doubt mistreated by duergar and wounded and slain in battle, probably with drow. I wonder how the drow respond to the steeders: avoid attacking them or decide they are no longer Lloth's creatures as she sold them.

Of course, what Lloth says and what Lloth does are two very different things.
Psionycx
07-14-07, 08:12 AM Girlfriend is a big league goddess, and a chaotic evil one at that. She doesn't have to follow her own rules.
XHereticX
07-14-07, 09:47 AM Then again, drow seem to have no problem mistreating Aranaes, Chitaines, and Driders;)

With a chaotic evil goddess, there really is no set doctrine. Just smash stuff:D
Zanan
07-14-07, 10:15 AM The spidery aspect was implanted in her after the bansihment from the Seldarine - I would guess. Even though, she was the Weaver of (all) Elven Destiny beforehand. She's the patron of the drow race and loves spiders. I for one never saw that great a love of spiders in each and every Lolthite drow. They rever them as holy, treat them as "aspects" of their deity, but there is no need to love them. Not even the priestesses. Lolth is much more than just spiders, you know. Those who need the crawling little beasts around can take the relevant domain, become Arachne, Arachnomancers or Vermin Lords or what have you.
DrowBattlemind
07-14-07, 11:41 AM True, true...

Also, in drow cities, there's often literally BILLIONS of the little buggers running around underfoot, everywhere!
While it's considered heresy to intentionally kill one, there's none-the-less a constant *pop-squish-splut!* going on in the background noise, just from drow not being able to find a clean place to step, sit down, etc...
Derreek
07-14-07, 01:17 PM OOooo looky what I my friend spotted for me...
DROW OF THE UNDERDARK P. 27, First Column, the end of the first paragraph continueing through to the middle of the second paragraph.

"The drow have no particular taboo against killing spiders, but they don't make a habit of doing so for no apparent reason.
In fact, despite (or perhaps because of) their reverence for these arachnids, spiders make up a regular portion of the drow diet. They are rarely the main course, but are instead consumed as a symbolic portion of the meal, usually at the beginning---almost the equivalent of asking Lolth's grace. "

Thus says the DnD book, which is based on the original DnD rules.

So not only is it okay to kill a spider, it's cool to have them as appetizers while you watch the rothe being prepared for the main course.

Ooo what do you think about that?
Faraer
07-14-07, 04:03 PM Lolth's dogma holds that 'Arachnids of all sorts are to be revered, and anyone who mistreats or kills a spider must die' (Demihuman Deities). The 3E Drow of the Underdark straightforwardly isn't Realmslore.
Zanan
07-14-07, 05:32 PM True, true...

Also, in drow cities, there's often literally BILLIONS of the little buggers running around underfoot, everywhere!
While it's considered heresy to intentionally kill one, there's none-the-less a constant *pop-squish-splut!* going on in the background noise, just from drow not being able to find a clean place to step, sit down, etc...

That is, matter of factly, the way it goes in Greyhawk ... and much like it is described in that woeful Dragon 298 and DotUD too. Fine for Greyhawk, not much use or relevance for the Realms. Waterdeep aside, you'll hardly find any place within Realmspace as detailed in source material AND novel like the drow city, Menzoberranzan. No source gives us an impression like the aforementioned Dragon and now DotUD.
Faraer
07-14-07, 06:35 PM That is, matter of factly, the way it goes in GreyhawkNo, it isn't, and the new Drow of the Underdark is not Greyhawk lore. Per D3 Vault of the Drow p. 5, 'Killing of spiders is sacrilege to all Drow', intentionally or otherwise.... and much like it is described in that woeful Dragon 298 and DotUD too. Fine for Greyhawk, not much use or relevance for the Realms."Flesh for Lolth" doesn't purport to describe the drow of either setting, it's a new interpretation created by Robin Laws -- one of the most gifted writers and designers in roleplaying -- for the article.
DrowBattlemind
07-14-07, 06:36 PM You mean to tell me that in Mezoberranzan, Ched Nasad, Sshamath, Eryndlyn, Guallidryth, Maerimydra, and the rest of the UnderRealms, the hordes of arachnidia are actually considerate enough to relegate themselves to the cavern ceilings and to keep from underfoot?

Now that I find hard to believe.

Simple logic would indicate that the little buggers are all over the place.

Since when have spiders ever stopped to consider oncoming traffic in city streets? Or whether someone else is about to sit down on the comfy cushion they've just sussed out and laid claim to? Cripes, Zanan, I can't even get my CATS to do that, and you think that an arthropodial predator will? A spider's first reaction is usually to elevate the front half of it's cephalothorax and raise its front legs in an aggressive display (and some of the little killers HISS at you!)

When I was in High School, I used to have a summer job involving cleaning out abandoned rural homes here in southern Missouri, land native to such breeds as orb weavers, wolf spiders, jumping spiders, tarantulas, and more. (I'd haul out furniture before the buildings [houses and barns] were sold or demolished.) Trust me, spiders are amazing creatures, and the greatest predators on the planet, but they've got an incredible lack of a grasp on size ratios, judging by how many have tried to swarm at me during that job. Heck, in High School, I kept three wolf spiders in my room at home as pets! (kept mom out :D ) (drawback: I got bit twice, one of them thought that right next to my pillow when I was asleep was a great place to perch for prey.)
Shiftkitty
07-14-07, 10:08 PM In my campaign world I have one character who is determined to prove herself the equal of a drow she has come to associate with. The drow made the flippant remark that this human wasn't fit to live among the drow simply because of squeamishness, let alone other weaknesses. So now it's become a challenge for Zera, the human sorceress, to survive some of the most disgusting meals to hit the plate since the cuisine on "Fear Factor". For every bite the drow, Stava, takes, Zera has to take one of equal measure.

Using that passage about eating spiders in DotU, the first meal was lightly roasted tarantula. She almost didn't make it when the back end exploded in a gooey mess in her mouth. Eh, some of the players themselves almost didn't make it through the description.:yuck:
Slayergnome
07-15-07, 01:39 AM Lloth doesn't care if spiders get killed. She just likes the form and her people like the form cause she likes the form. Drow eat spiders all the time and kill their foes spiders. Is sorta like saying "Jesus Christ." Its taboo for someone to say it and you try not to say it but when you do it's not a big deal...maybe you feel a little remorse if your that kinda person.
Zanan
07-15-07, 08:16 AM No, it isn't, and the new Drow of the Underdark is not Greyhawk lore. Per D3 Vault of the Drow p. 5, 'Killing of spiders is sacrilege to all Drow', intentionally or otherwise.

Ahem ... DotUD is Core material related to the Core World of D&D and this is Greyhawk. Hence, they included Erelhei-cinlu in this book. In this respect, BTW, I refer to "Core" material not in the sense of rules as such, but for what the book is being published. This process started in D&D and was taken over from 3E into 3RE as well. Thus, Savage Species, the Builders' Guidebooks, Sandstorm and what have you are all Core material that may or may not be used or have relevance to a special setting. That is also why you get a special mentioning of Eberron or Faerūn in some of these books, but never Greyhawk (which is no longer supported as a setting as such).

"Flesh for Lolth" doesn't purport to describe the drow of either setting, it's a new interpretation created by Robin Laws -- one of the most gifted writers and designers in roleplaying -- for the article.

I'm sorry and no insult to the author. But most of the material in that Dragon - PrC and the info on Erelhei-cinlu and House Kilsek aside, is horribly constructed. As in: you cannot walk through a street without stamping on tons of spiders ... and then you read as is written in your sample: 'Killing of spiders is sacrilege to all Drow'? Are they all ballett dancers? Honestly, I haven't read much Greyhawk stuff, novel or sourcebook alike, but if it is like what is written in that Dragon, there's no wonder people like Gothic Dan viewed the drow as demonspawn etc. rather than dark elves. But as they say, suum cuique.
Eltorion
07-15-07, 11:42 AM Just one question is Loth dead or alive im not sure im just reading the first book lol
Faraer
07-15-07, 01:29 PM Ahem ... DotUD is Core material related to the Core World of D&D and this is Greyhawk.The 'Greyhawk' which is, in the loosest sense, the 'default setting' of D&D, is not the World of Greyhawk created by Gary Gygax or detailed under Erik Mona's editorship in Dungeon. It's a cut-down variant setting, called at one point Greyhawk Light, which differs from the real WoG in many ways, starting with its St Cuthbert being LN instead of LG, through a different dwarven pantheon in Races of Stone (if you consider all the core books to detail a consistent setting, which I'm not sure they do), to these differences in Lolth.

As Richard Baker recently posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=702942&page=15), 'When we say "Greyhawk" we're really saying "homebrew."' There is a canonical World of Greyhawk -- actually more than one -- and I assure you this is not it.

The book borrows Erelhei-Cinlu as a familiar example; it doesn't purport to describe the baseline WoG.Honestly, I haven't read much Greyhawk stuff, novel or sourcebook alike, but if it is like what is written in that Dragon, there's no wonder people like Gothic Dan viewed the drow as demonspawn etc. rather than dark elves. But as they say, suum cuique.I'm not sure about the other articles, but again, Robin Laws's has nothing to do with Greyhawk.
Zanan
07-15-07, 05:24 PM @ Faraer ... well then, there is more to Greyhawk than I knew before, fair enough. I was referring to the demi-setting, if you will, i.e. the one all non-setting-specific rules in the aforementioned books are aimed at. You wonder why they choose Erelhei-cinlu of a non-supported demi-setting, you wonder why they listed all those Greyhawk gods in the PHB and Complete Divine. I mean, so much material like PrCs et al for a setting that is basically not supported by anything other than rule stuff? Something that is, by your word, not even the real Core world?

Nonetheless, it doesn't make the articles in that Dragon any better a read (from a FR point of view). As good as they might be for other settings.
Eltorion
07-15-07, 07:45 PM J thx no one will answer me rrrrrr!!
Shiftkitty
07-15-07, 10:20 PM Okay, I'll answer you. By first book, I assume you mean War of the Spider Queen? I'm on the first one myself, but I've read that she transformed to a Greater Deity.
Zanan
07-16-07, 03:44 AM J thx no one will answer me rrrrrr!!

Sorry ... she went Silent as in: into hibernation

Spoiler
She used the ritual to concentrate all her power and shift the Demonweb Pits out of the Abyss and create her own domain. You can see that in the FRCS and PGtF, where the Demonweb Pits are listed as a seperate plane of the FR cosmology. During that process, it has been assumed by the author and most gamers, that she gained that one DR rank to become a Greater Deity. So in essence, she was never dead and as it stands right now, she's alive and kicking. Matter of factly, in the Lady Penitent series she is sava gaming for the drow race and at the end of this series, there may be far more upheaval in the drow pantheon than there has been in all six novels of the WotSQ series. And probably not just in the novels .. upheaval. that is.
Cryto
07-16-07, 04:22 AM Interesting fact: It is prohibited to kill a spider but you can eat them :D
Eltorion
07-16-07, 10:37 AM Thx for the answer but my sister just got me mixed up!!!
Is the matrons of each house a spider and the high pritess to???
DrowBattlemind
07-16-07, 10:45 AM Matrons of the houses are clerics, often high priestesses. However, they're not spiders. Spider worshipers, but not spiders. If they screw up too badly, they might get turned into Driders, Spiderleg Horrors, or other icky spider-like critters, but if they do, they lose their matron-status.
Zanan
07-16-07, 10:54 AM Thx for the answer but my sister just got me mixed up!!!
Is the matrons of each house a spider and the high pritess to???

A Matron is virtually* "a spider in her net", but the person is in nigh all cases a high priestess. In all other cases, it is just a cleric (not yet high priestess). The status of high priestess is usually given to clerics of level 7+.

*Edited for Shiftykitty's health.
Shiftkitty
07-16-07, 03:11 PM OT: She is figuratively a spider in her web. If she was literally a spider in her web, she'd have eight legs, eight eyes, be an arachnid, etc.

Sorry about my rant. The word "literally" has been bandied around too much so that it's becoming meaningless. I'll be quiet now before I literally burst a vessel. :rant: :headexplo :cool:
Zanan
07-16-07, 05:37 PM OT: She is figuratively a spider in her web. If she was literally a spider in her web, she'd have eight legs, eight eyes, be an arachnid, etc.

Sorry about my rant. The word "literally" has been bandied around too much so that it's becoming meaningless. I'll be quiet now before I literally burst a vessel. :rant: :headexplo :cool:

Well, yes. Will keep that in mind ... what do you pay? I mean, now that I know how to literally kill you ... :D
Shiftkitty
07-18-07, 10:24 AM LOL Sorry, that was my inner Vocabulary Nazi goose-stepping out! I need a Hitler smiley for when I do that. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Derreek 07-14-07, 02:09 AM	Mmmmk...Loth loves spiders correct...do you think she'll get mad if a drow kill's a spider? ...Like smiting mad? Or how about spiders that are considered weak? Your opinions.
Zsych 07-14-07, 02:32 AM	As far as I know, all spiders are considered holy. And Lloth seems to be fairly aware of what her worshippers do(or maybe as with Drizzt's case, she is able to detect heretical actions and such). So I think someone who killed a spider would likely be detected(maybe by his own religious guilt). She may or may not decide to cause trouble for him(or rather, be displeased with his family). I think most drow would start begging their goddess for forgiveness, and maybe offer a personal sacrifice in such a case. Also, it is my opinion that if a drow does not worship Lloth, then Lloth may well not know about the act(so if you're not seen in the act, by a soon to be wrathful Lloth worshipper... you should be safe enough).
Psionycx 07-14-07, 06:45 AM	It has always been depicted that it is considered blasphemy amongst Lolthite drow to harm or kill spiders. I remember in Elaine Cunningham's novel Daughter of the Drow Liriel Baenre becomes enraged when human Fyodor kills one. It's an ingrained cultural reaction. Now, as to whether or not Lolth herself will react is open to question. She certainly won't approve, but I doubt she will "smite" the individual any more than Sune unleashes wrath on anyone that tramples a flower bed. Gods rarely waste their power so casually. However, the act might count negatively towards the individual as regards matters of remaining in her favor. And of course she would fully expect any devout worshipper of her's to act against the person in question.
BadCatMan 07-14-07, 07:14 AM	Lloth herself has done a deal with Laduguer that allows the duergar to breed and ride steeders, the large riding spiders (what she got out of the deal I don't know). These steeders are no doubt mistreated by duergar and wounded and slain in battle, probably with drow. I wonder how the drow respond to the steeders: avoid attacking them or decide they are no longer Lloth's creatures as she sold them. Of course, what Lloth says and what Lloth does are two very different things.
Psionycx 07-14-07, 08:12 AM	Girlfriend is a big league goddess, and a chaotic evil one at that. She doesn't have to follow her own rules.
XHereticX 07-14-07, 09:47 AM	Then again, drow seem to have no problem mistreating Aranaes, Chitaines, and Driders;) With a chaotic evil goddess, there really is no set doctrine. Just smash stuff:D
Zanan 07-14-07, 10:15 AM	The spidery aspect was implanted in her after the bansihment from the Seldarine - I would guess. Even though, she was the Weaver of (all) Elven Destiny beforehand. She's the patron of the drow race and loves spiders. I for one never saw that great a love of spiders in each and every Lolthite drow. They rever them as holy, treat them as "aspects" of their deity, but there is no need to love them. Not even the priestesses. Lolth is much more than just spiders, you know. Those who need the crawling little beasts around can take the relevant domain, become Arachne, Arachnomancers or Vermin Lords or what have you.
DrowBattlemind 07-14-07, 11:41 AM	True, true... Also, in drow cities, there's often literally BILLIONS of the little buggers running around underfoot, everywhere! While it's considered heresy to intentionally kill one, there's none-the-less a constant pop-squish-splut! going on in the background noise, just from drow not being able to find a clean place to step, sit down, etc...
Derreek 07-14-07, 01:17 PM	OOooo looky what I my friend spotted for me... DROW OF THE UNDERDARK P. 27, First Column, the end of the first paragraph continueing through to the middle of the second paragraph. "The drow have no particular taboo against killing spiders, but they don't make a habit of doing so for no apparent reason. In fact, despite (or perhaps because of) their reverence for these arachnids, spiders make up a regular portion of the drow diet. They are rarely the main course, but are instead consumed as a symbolic portion of the meal, usually at the beginning---almost the equivalent of asking Lolth's grace. " Thus says the DnD book, which is based on the original DnD rules. So not only is it okay to kill a spider, it's cool to have them as appetizers while you watch the rothe being prepared for the main course. Ooo what do you think about that?
Faraer 07-14-07, 04:03 PM	Lolth's dogma holds that 'Arachnids of all sorts are to be revered, and anyone who mistreats or kills a spider must die' (Demihuman Deities). The 3E Drow of the Underdark straightforwardly isn't Realmslore.
Zanan 07-14-07, 05:32 PM	True, true... Also, in drow cities, there's often literally BILLIONS of the little buggers running around underfoot, everywhere! While it's considered heresy to intentionally kill one, there's none-the-less a constant pop-squish-splut! going on in the background noise, just from drow not being able to find a clean place to step, sit down, etc... That is, matter of factly, the way it goes in Greyhawk ... and much like it is described in that woeful Dragon 298 and DotUD too. Fine for Greyhawk, not much use or relevance for the Realms. Waterdeep aside, you'll hardly find any place within Realmspace as detailed in source material AND novel like the drow city, Menzoberranzan. No source gives us an impression like the aforementioned Dragon and now DotUD.
Faraer 07-14-07, 06:35 PM	That is, matter of factly, the way it goes in GreyhawkNo, it isn't, and the new Drow of the Underdark is not Greyhawk lore. Per D3 Vault of the Drow p. 5, 'Killing of spiders is sacrilege to all Drow', intentionally or otherwise.... and much like it is described in that woeful Dragon 298 and DotUD too. Fine for Greyhawk, not much use or relevance for the Realms."Flesh for Lolth" doesn't purport to describe the drow of either setting, it's a new interpretation created by Robin Laws -- one of the most gifted writers and designers in roleplaying -- for the article.
DrowBattlemind 07-14-07, 06:36 PM	You mean to tell me that in Mezoberranzan, Ched Nasad, Sshamath, Eryndlyn, Guallidryth, Maerimydra, and the rest of the UnderRealms, the hordes of arachnidia are actually considerate enough to relegate themselves to the cavern ceilings and to keep from underfoot? Now that I find hard to believe. Simple logic would indicate that the little buggers are all over the place. Since when have spiders ever stopped to consider oncoming traffic in city streets? Or whether someone else is about to sit down on the comfy cushion they've just sussed out and laid claim to? Cripes, Zanan, I can't even get my CATS to do that, and you think that an arthropodial predator will? A spider's first reaction is usually to elevate the front half of it's cephalothorax and raise its front legs in an aggressive display (and some of the little killers HISS at you!) When I was in High School, I used to have a summer job involving cleaning out abandoned rural homes here in southern Missouri, land native to such breeds as orb weavers, wolf spiders, jumping spiders, tarantulas, and more. (I'd haul out furniture before the buildings [houses and barns] were sold or demolished.) Trust me, spiders are amazing creatures, and the greatest predators on the planet, but they've got an incredible lack of a grasp on size ratios, judging by how many have tried to swarm at me during that job. Heck, in High School, I kept three wolf spiders in my room at home as pets! (kept mom out :D ) (drawback: I got bit twice, one of them thought that right next to my pillow when I was asleep was a great place to perch for prey.)
Shiftkitty 07-14-07, 10:08 PM	In my campaign world I have one character who is determined to prove herself the equal of a drow she has come to associate with. The drow made the flippant remark that this human wasn't fit to live among the drow simply because of squeamishness, let alone other weaknesses. So now it's become a challenge for Zera, the human sorceress, to survive some of the most disgusting meals to hit the plate since the cuisine on "Fear Factor". For every bite the drow, Stava, takes, Zera has to take one of equal measure. Using that passage about eating spiders in DotU, the first meal was lightly roasted tarantula. She almost didn't make it when the back end exploded in a gooey mess in her mouth. Eh, some of the players themselves almost didn't make it through the description.:yuck:
Slayergnome 07-15-07, 01:39 AM	Lloth doesn't care if spiders get killed. She just likes the form and her people like the form cause she likes the form. Drow eat spiders all the time and kill their foes spiders. Is sorta like saying "Jesus Christ." Its taboo for someone to say it and you try not to say it but when you do it's not a big deal...maybe you feel a little remorse if your that kinda person.
Zanan 07-15-07, 08:16 AM	No, it isn't, and the new Drow of the Underdark is not Greyhawk lore. Per D3 Vault of the Drow p. 5, 'Killing of spiders is sacrilege to all Drow', intentionally or otherwise. Ahem ... DotUD is Core material related to the Core World of D&D and this is Greyhawk. Hence, they included Erelhei-cinlu in this book. In this respect, BTW, I refer to "Core" material not in the sense of rules as such, but for what the book is being published. This process started in D&D and was taken over from 3E into 3RE as well. Thus, Savage Species, the Builders' Guidebooks, Sandstorm and what have you are all Core material that may or may not be used or have relevance to a special setting. That is also why you get a special mentioning of Eberron or Faerūn in some of these books, but never Greyhawk (which is no longer supported as a setting as such). "Flesh for Lolth" doesn't purport to describe the drow of either setting, it's a new interpretation created by Robin Laws -- one of the most gifted writers and designers in roleplaying -- for the article. I'm sorry and no insult to the author. But most of the material in that Dragon - PrC and the info on Erelhei-cinlu and House Kilsek aside, is horribly constructed. As in: you cannot walk through a street without stamping on tons of spiders ... and then you read as is written in your sample: 'Killing of spiders is sacrilege to all Drow'? Are they all ballett dancers? Honestly, I haven't read much Greyhawk stuff, novel or sourcebook alike, but if it is like what is written in that Dragon, there's no wonder people like Gothic Dan viewed the drow as demonspawn etc. rather than dark elves. But as they say, suum cuique.
Eltorion 07-15-07, 11:42 AM	Just one question is Loth dead or alive im not sure im just reading the first book lol
Faraer 07-15-07, 01:29 PM	Ahem ... DotUD is Core material related to the Core World of D&D and this is Greyhawk.The 'Greyhawk' which is, in the loosest sense, the 'default setting' of D&D, is not the World of Greyhawk created by Gary Gygax or detailed under Erik Mona's editorship in Dungeon. It's a cut-down variant setting, called at one point Greyhawk Light, which differs from the real WoG in many ways, starting with its St Cuthbert being LN instead of LG, through a different dwarven pantheon in Races of Stone (if you consider all the core books to detail a consistent setting, which I'm not sure they do), to these differences in Lolth. As Richard Baker recently posted (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=702942&page=15), 'When we say "Greyhawk" we're really saying "homebrew."' There is a canonical World of Greyhawk -- actually more than one -- and I assure you this is not it. The book borrows Erelhei-Cinlu as a familiar example; it doesn't purport to describe the baseline WoG.Honestly, I haven't read much Greyhawk stuff, novel or sourcebook alike, but if it is like what is written in that Dragon, there's no wonder people like Gothic Dan viewed the drow as demonspawn etc. rather than dark elves. But as they say, suum cuique.I'm not sure about the other articles, but again, Robin Laws's has nothing to do with Greyhawk.
Zanan 07-15-07, 05:24 PM	@ Faraer ... well then, there is more to Greyhawk than I knew before, fair enough. I was referring to the demi-setting, if you will, i.e. the one all non-setting-specific rules in the aforementioned books are aimed at. You wonder why they choose Erelhei-cinlu of a non-supported demi-setting, you wonder why they listed all those Greyhawk gods in the PHB and Complete Divine. I mean, so much material like PrCs et al for a setting that is basically not supported by anything other than rule stuff? Something that is, by your word, not even the real Core world? Nonetheless, it doesn't make the articles in that Dragon any better a read (from a FR point of view). As good as they might be for other settings.
Eltorion 07-15-07, 07:45 PM	J thx no one will answer me rrrrrr!!
Shiftkitty 07-15-07, 10:20 PM	Okay, I'll answer you. By first book, I assume you mean War of the Spider Queen? I'm on the first one myself, but I've read that she transformed to a Greater Deity.
Zanan 07-16-07, 03:44 AM	J thx no one will answer me rrrrrr!! Sorry ... she went Silent as in: into hibernation Spoiler She used the ritual to concentrate all her power and shift the Demonweb Pits out of the Abyss and create her own domain. You can see that in the FRCS and PGtF, where the Demonweb Pits are listed as a seperate plane of the FR cosmology. During that process, it has been assumed by the author and most gamers, that she gained that one DR rank to become a Greater Deity. So in essence, she was never dead and as it stands right now, she's alive and kicking. Matter of factly, in the Lady Penitent series she is sava gaming for the drow race and at the end of this series, there may be far more upheaval in the drow pantheon than there has been in all six novels of the WotSQ series. And probably not just in the novels .. upheaval. that is.
Cryto 07-16-07, 04:22 AM	Interesting fact: It is prohibited to kill a spider but you can eat them :D
Eltorion 07-16-07, 10:37 AM	Thx for the answer but my sister just got me mixed up!!! Is the matrons of each house a spider and the high pritess to???
DrowBattlemind 07-16-07, 10:45 AM	Matrons of the houses are clerics, often high priestesses. However, they're not spiders. Spider worshipers, but not spiders. If they screw up too badly, they might get turned into Driders, Spiderleg Horrors, or other icky spider-like critters, but if they do, they lose their matron-status.
Zanan 07-16-07, 10:54 AM	Thx for the answer but my sister just got me mixed up!!! Is the matrons of each house a spider and the high pritess to??? A Matron is virtually* "a spider in her net", but the person is in nigh all cases a high priestess. In all other cases, it is just a cleric (not yet high priestess). The status of high priestess is usually given to clerics of level 7+. *Edited for Shiftykitty's health.
Shiftkitty 07-16-07, 03:11 PM	OT: She is figuratively a spider in her web. If she was literally a spider in her web, she'd have eight legs, eight eyes, be an arachnid, etc. Sorry about my rant. The word "literally" has been bandied around too much so that it's becoming meaningless. I'll be quiet now before I literally burst a vessel. :rant: :headexplo :cool:
Zanan 07-16-07, 05:37 PM	OT: She is figuratively a spider in her web. If she was literally a spider in her web, she'd have eight legs, eight eyes, be an arachnid, etc. Sorry about my rant. The word "literally" has been bandied around too much so that it's becoming meaningless. I'll be quiet now before I literally burst a vessel. :rant: :headexplo :cool: Well, yes. Will keep that in mind ... what do you pay? I mean, now that I know how to literally kill you ... :D
Shiftkitty 07-18-07, 10:24 AM	LOL Sorry, that was my inner Vocabulary Nazi goose-stepping out! I need a Hitler smiley for when I do that. :D