Magical Item Availability in the Realms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Magical Item Availability in the Realms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Herr Doktor
07-29-03, 01:34 AM Reading about the enclaves and such I have decided to take 10% off all useful magical items (those regularly sold in enclaves, and therefore more readily available) and adding 10% to the cost of more dangerous magical items (representing having to go through the black market).

Does this sound fair/reasonable?

Is there any balance issues I am missing?
Azzadar
07-29-03, 02:44 AM This sounds good. It really depends on the amount of gold available to your PC's.
BlueDragon
07-29-03, 04:33 AM Sounds good to me too. Easy to get magical items tend to screw up the game balance after a while.

If your PCs get their hands on a lot powerful magical items, they may soon be able to defeat foes of far greater CR than their own level. In other words, they will be able to deal more damage than they can take. Then you'll spend a lot of time trying to set up encounters that won't kill your PCs in the first round and still be a good challange.

I think the PCs should earn magical equipment by good deeds and good adventuring, not by getting a lot of money and go to a shop and buy them. Keeping your PCs out of the shops give you more control over game balance.
Astanphaeus
07-29-03, 04:42 AM Originally posted by Herr Doktor
Does this sound fair/reasonable?

[Thayan accent]

Emminently reasonable. Very logical, yes. Makes perfect sense. We... (er... ahem) I approve.

Is there any balance issues I am missing?

No, certainly not. It is perfectly balanced, I say. Like a blade crafted by a master weaponsmith. More Thayan magic items for everyone, yes! After all, 'tis only fair. Why should anyone be denied these wonderous items? Promote free enterprise!

[/Thayan accent]

-- A.
keldor
08-01-03, 01:11 PM I am a big believer in the original stance of the 2nd Edition rules: magic items should NEVER be available for purchase. If you think about it, this should be obvious. Firstly, who can make magic items? I can't speak for the 3rd. Ed. (which, as far as I have been able to gather - and I pray I'm wrong - allows all characters to develop all skills), but in 2nd ed. only human wizards can make them (maybe it's an oversight but elves cannot attain the level required to cast permanency, but I can allow some artistic licence on the matter). Regardless, this fact dictates that most magic items would be for the benefit of wizards, and even in th case of items that other classes might find useful, they would be highly likely to require arcane and secret command words. Permanent, special non-wizard magical items would therefore be rare, probably commissioned by very rich warriors, kings, etc. or made for friends, fellow adventurers. Now think about the process outlined in 2nd. ed. rules for making such items, even the most humble potion of invisibility and it becomes clear that the effort and cost involved makes such items so special that their rarity would be such that to find a magic item would be like finding rocking horse droppings! Indeed, rocking horse droppings are the sort of ingredients a DM is supposed to think up for magic item manufacture! The likes of 'the roar of a lion' or 'the tears of a nymph as she dies from a broken heart, collected by the light of the full moon'. Given these rules, only adventurers who had for e.g. found a better magic sword than they previously had would be willing to sell one - and who could afford to buy one anyway? Only a lower level adventurer probably, and who's to say they would have the amount of money such an item ought to cost? Of course, there is also the economy to think about. What merchant has the money to buy a magic sword +1 for a reasonable asking price of 1000 GPs, and who can he hope to sell it to? In my campaign, I demand the PC's spend money on expenses, and above all, guild costs for training. If you follow the rules outlined, this leaves very little disposable cash for PCs.
Of course, I don't expect everyone to want to play the way I play but the spirit of my campaign is what I believe to be the closest to that intended by the makers of it - where magic is rare and wonderful and highly prized. Adventuring is the hardest of all 'careers', with the carrot always before the nose, and almost never attained! This way, when a player _does_ achieve something like successfully research a new spell, go up a level, find a treasure horde, he gets excited about it!
Faraer
08-01-03, 01:43 PM In the Realms 'as she is wrote', some temples sell potions, and other minor trinkets like light stones (bearing continual light/flame enchantments) are sometimes sold. Curio shops in large cities may have occasional magical things among their wares. Individuals occasionally trade items of magic for coin, goods, or services. But there are no magic shops. The Realms is magic-heavy in that mages and priests aren't especially rare and the world has a high density of magical variety and invention, within a carefully constructed magical ecology -- the published Realms *began* with historied devices and unique spells which dismantled the idea of emotionally empty +1 and +3 this and thats. Now, in the 3Eized Realms magic items are commonly bought and sold to match the new rules in which they are, undeniably, commoditized. DMs have to decide between fidelity to the setting as intended and following the new rules in which magic is product.
keldor
08-01-03, 01:58 PM 'Historied' items - that's a great point I meant to mention. In a world where magic is really rare, the items that _do_ exist would likely have been made by very powerful, and thus probably very well known (at least at one time), wizards. This can be used to advantage of the campaign when a player discovers a magical item and thinks about where it came from. With the Legend Lore spell they could get a huge kick out of knowing that the item once belonged to...Drizzt or Elminster, etc. Afterall, magical items would get 'handed on' by those who went on to bigger and better things.
Azuresabre
08-01-03, 02:49 PM Awwwww.....The age old question, do you allow a Magic Item shop to exist in your campaign? I general I say yes, but only for minor items i.e. Healing potions, scrolls, with a few odds and ends in the way of wands, staves, rods, weapons (daggers mostly) etc... but be sure to make the charges in charged items very low, it won't do for a low level mage just to swing by and pick up a wand of lightning with a few dozen charges. And always make the price a few thousand more than what it is actually worth. If they want it badly enough they'll drop the coin. but it should in essence, be a "last resort" item, something that can burn out really easily if used more than a few times. As for the discount stuff, naw....... make em' pay. a mage went htrough a lot of work to build the damn thing, what ever it is, make them show some monatary appriecation.
BILLYtheGOATofTERROR
08-01-03, 03:25 PM This is one of my favorites!

In 3rd edition the balancing scale of mid to high level PCs assumes that they have tens of thousands of gold peices worth of magic items at their disposal. To limit the frequency of said items in a campaign for reasons of verisimilitude is your perogotive but realize you endanger your player-characters lives becuase of it. With the inclusion of the 3.5 Damage Reduction system one can get away with a bit more stinginess in the magic weapon department but remember that the +3 in that short sword is meant to balance that 10th level rogue; to keep him on the power curve.
As for magic shoppes (yes I olde time spelled it, you got a problem? :D). Whatever is clever. I can certainly see why one would not have them, and to an extent agree, but if there are stores that cater to high powered individuals then your characters are going to have the oppurtunity to choose the items that they wield as opposed to making due with the items in the dragon horde, beholder den, what have you. Also the existence of these stores can help show your PCs how common the adventuring profession really is in the great world of Fearun, which is an undeniable fact!
keldor
08-01-03, 04:17 PM Interesting. I read somewhere that only 2% of the population are adventurers, give or take. To continue this on the idea of magic shops...Of that 2% approx. 1 in 5? will be wizards - going strictly by the numbers - in reality, warriors and thieves would be the most common, followed by priests (with all the monsters and horrors of such a wild world many people would take up praying!), with the arcane arts practitioner a clear last on the grounds that his knowledge is secret and obtuse, sometimes long lost and closely guarded - not to mention very intellectually demanding (which means long hours pouring over dusty books i.e. no social life - not very alluring). Of this small number of wizards, how many will ever achieve the heights of power whereby they can create magical items? Considering the numbers so many of us have known that spent their last few hours blundering about hopelessly out of their depth with a single magic missile, not many!
I agree it's a bit of a dilema since a) it's only a game and thus, really, whatever brings the most fun is surely best, b) players would quickly lose interest if they fought their way through hordes of monsters time and again to only find, if they're outstandingly lucky, a measly potion of healing!
On the other hand, there's not much worse for the DM when the players poke about the treasure horde with their intelligent swords , decked out in robes of eyes and helms of teleportation and moan about how they'll never be able to get a decent price on _another_ magic carpet.
BILLYtheGOATofTERROR
08-02-03, 12:10 AM Keldor, man, you're preaching to the choir. (at least with me)
This is the goat playing devil's advocate:

I read somewhere that only 2% of the population are adventurers, give or take

That's actually quite a bit... considering the adventurers that become good at their profession have gobs of money to throw around I don't see a huge problem with there being 'magic shoppes' in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and other large, adventurer-friendly metros. Consider the prominence of real world 'magic stores' (i.e. sleight of hand, juggling, card tricks). Every large city has one and maybe 2% of the populace want a damned thing in it but, miraculously, they stay afloat.
Now consider the profit margin for a 7th level human wizard with a few 'Craft..' feats and some overhead. He can double his money, only loose a little experience while raking in the gold (when compared to any other crafts-person or artisan) for the sale of a simple +1 dagger.
I know you play 2E so this is much different for you and your group but item creation in 3E is cake-walk making the existence of 'magic shoppes' that sale low powered, yet useful, items to the rich and adventurous extremely pluasible.
*the goat is putting down the pitch-fork*

Now, as the realms are written, there are no 'magic shoppes' besides the occasional Red Wizards' Enclave and I like that; One of the reasons I disliked 2E was that it was so hard to make magic items, so when 3E released with clear and simple rules for their creation I jumped on it. To have a place that a PC can buy her +2 Sonic Burst long sword will negate both the balancing factor of randomized treasure and the a well constructed magic creation system.
Hez
08-02-03, 03:44 AM Well, I make magic items available to player characters to purchase, however, this is where the FRCS is my greatest ally.

See, in the FRCS, most cities and towns that get a "write-up" (meaning, a statistics block on population, percentages, adventurers of note, etc.) also have a max GP value/capacity, just as per the rules in the DMG.
They also usually have lists of notable NPCs of certain classes/levels in the city.

That ultra-nifty city-builder web enhancement relased on the website a little bit ago also follows this formula.

Now what does this have to do with anything, you ask? Say my character wants a wand of Fireball. He rolls into town, and makes some Gather Information checks, or something appropriate to find a spellcaster capable of creating such a thing.
Now, the DM looks over the list of "NPCs of Note" in the town's write-up. He finds there is a 6th level Wizard in town. Now, a Wizard of 6th level is capable of having the Craft Wand feat, and the Fireball spell. What follows is a series of rolls, or arbitrary decisions by the DM, to decide if this particular 6th level Wizard has the feats and spell necessary to craft this wand for me, and rolls/decides whether the wizard has some kind bias towards/against me (based on something like race, gender, religion, class, alignment, etc.)
So say that all systems are a go. The 6th level Wizard has Craft Wand, and has Fireball, and he doesn't have some kind of hatred for me. So, voila, wand of Fireball, right? Wrong.
The DM looks at the cost of the wand of Fireball. And then compares it to the town's GP limit. It's a small town, despite having a decent-level wizard, and it simply does not have the facilities available to the wizard to craft such an item. So, as a result, I have to go on a quest for the wizard or for the town proper, to get the necessary gold or material components necessary for the construction of my wand.

So, in this example, we've turned a rather simple attempt to purchase a Wand of Fireball into an adventure hook. Nice, yes?

On the flipside, if the DM decides that such an item would unbalance the campaign, he can simply decide that unfortunately the wizard lacks the feat/spell and while he'd love to help us, he can't. This isn't the same thing as saying arbitrarily "No, no wand for you."
The player could travel to a much bigger city. They may not have that kind of wizard/facilities/money in Random Podunk Town #5, but in nearby Waterdeep, however...
And once again, we arrive at an adventure seed for the DM, which is always a Good Thing. Perhaps during their journey to find someone capable of making the magic item they need, the PCs advance to a level where the DM feels the magic item is fair.

In short, there's nothing that binds the DM into allowing you to buy any magic item you have the GP for. He can come up with all sorts of reasons why you can't have it right now. I've listed a few.

Another really good (evil?) example is the Thayan Enclaves. Thayans offer to make magic on the cheap, if you need something simple like a +1 sword or a potion of invisibility. But you need something rare or potent? Well, your Friends in Thay® are more than happy to help you, but your desired item requires a certain component that's particularely rare/dangerous/hard to get/illegal etc.
Once again, more story hooks. More story hooks equal more fun!
paradoxmage
08-05-03, 05:10 AM I think shops are fine, and yes 10% sounds reasonable but I would certainly make it that these shops exist only in cities that if not as big close to waterdeep. I would keep small things not more than 1000gp can be found in temples(divine items), 500 for arcane in temples(there are arcane followers), and in these shops found in cities I would definetly not have anything over 10,000 gp for sale due to the fact that they are not only rarely sold(because anything that expensive or more is useful in many ways and a character would be hard pressed to want to sell it) but are rarely created and sold

Of course thay would be an exception to this rule, they are known to sell magic items of rareity(if they didnt want it themselves that is) but I personaly make every item they make and sell to be tainted in some way(like addictive potions, make them want to come back for more

:smirk: )
Bazcasta
08-05-03, 12:52 PM 2% huh... thats aprox. 110,000 adventures about Faerun... I added up the populations from all the places in the FRCS, and got around 5.5 million, give or take the people who aren't in there, and blah blah. But it was close to that.:D

---Edit---
I use shops but I used them way to much when I started DMing (in-expeirenced), and now I make them less and less every session. The way I see it is, why would they have a market price for items if they couldn't be should... although my players aren't going to find "Hedar's Helm o' Brillance Shope" EVER. I limit it to a certain size of item power for the cities GP limit. Waterdeep, IMC, probably has up to 50% of medium items. But the hamlet to the south has maybe a few potions, or a scroll or two... I do it case-by-case.
primemover003
08-05-03, 06:02 PM Well in the silver Marches it says you can find minor magical items in Silverymoon. I've taken that as anything on the minor lists in the DMG and Magic of Faerun could be purchased. I mean with a Mage School and several major temples, magic item creation is pretty obvious, especially with the Magical Artisan Feat from the FRCS. I have a Wiz 5/Harper Mage 5 in the party who joined the Spellguard to get the discounted tuition at the Lady's College. He now makes most of the magic items for the party. The cleric of the Party also just took Craft Magic Arms and Armor as his 12th level feat and will be using it to make +4 items!!! (I'm still using 3.0 till we start a new campaign)
BILLYtheGOATofTERROR
08-05-03, 07:51 PM The cleric of the Party also just took Craft Magic Arms and Armor as his 12th level feat and will be using it to make +4 items!!!
So, as a successful adventurer that regularly works at his career - rare, I admit - can easily produce low-cost magic items, in a fairly large scale. It's pluasible, whether or not your Realms has 'magic Shoppes' is up to you.
As for the Universities in Silverymoon and and other large cities; I can see these being the magic depositories that the PCs need to stay balanced.
Frodo Lives
08-05-03, 10:27 PM Magic Items in my campaign are for sale, but only low level scrolls and wands, some potions and anything else in the minor catagory is occasionally offered. I do allow the characters to commision magic items at a steep price and make them wait the appropriate time for them, and I also have individuals that make a living by acting as a go between to buy and sell other magic items. This gives the characters a way to sell unwanted or older magic items and gives me some control over what they can get. Most of the magic that they have is what they have found on adventures or gained as rewards, but it doesn't make much sense to allow them to sell magic items but not make it possible to buy them. I just control what is available, if it will unbalance the game or is too powerful, it's not available.

I generally don't make anything available that is more powerful or comparable power to the better items that they have found or been rewarded with.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Herr Doktor 07-29-03, 01:34 AM	Reading about the enclaves and such I have decided to take 10% off all useful magical items (those regularly sold in enclaves, and therefore more readily available) and adding 10% to the cost of more dangerous magical items (representing having to go through the black market). Does this sound fair/reasonable? Is there any balance issues I am missing?
Azzadar 07-29-03, 02:44 AM	This sounds good. It really depends on the amount of gold available to your PC's.
BlueDragon 07-29-03, 04:33 AM	Sounds good to me too. Easy to get magical items tend to screw up the game balance after a while. If your PCs get their hands on a lot powerful magical items, they may soon be able to defeat foes of far greater CR than their own level. In other words, they will be able to deal more damage than they can take. Then you'll spend a lot of time trying to set up encounters that won't kill your PCs in the first round and still be a good challange. I think the PCs should earn magical equipment by good deeds and good adventuring, not by getting a lot of money and go to a shop and buy them. Keeping your PCs out of the shops give you more control over game balance.
Astanphaeus 07-29-03, 04:42 AM	Originally posted by Herr Doktor Does this sound fair/reasonable? [Thayan accent] Emminently reasonable. Very logical, yes. Makes perfect sense. We... (er... ahem) I approve. Is there any balance issues I am missing? No, certainly not. It is perfectly balanced, I say. Like a blade crafted by a master weaponsmith. More Thayan magic items for everyone, yes! After all, 'tis only fair. Why should anyone be denied these wonderous items? Promote free enterprise! [/Thayan accent] -- A.
keldor 08-01-03, 01:11 PM	I am a big believer in the original stance of the 2nd Edition rules: magic items should NEVER be available for purchase. If you think about it, this should be obvious. Firstly, who can make magic items? I can't speak for the 3rd. Ed. (which, as far as I have been able to gather - and I pray I'm wrong - allows all characters to develop all skills), but in 2nd ed. only human wizards can make them (maybe it's an oversight but elves cannot attain the level required to cast permanency, but I can allow some artistic licence on the matter). Regardless, this fact dictates that most magic items would be for the benefit of wizards, and even in th case of items that other classes might find useful, they would be highly likely to require arcane and secret command words. Permanent, special non-wizard magical items would therefore be rare, probably commissioned by very rich warriors, kings, etc. or made for friends, fellow adventurers. Now think about the process outlined in 2nd. ed. rules for making such items, even the most humble potion of invisibility and it becomes clear that the effort and cost involved makes such items so special that their rarity would be such that to find a magic item would be like finding rocking horse droppings! Indeed, rocking horse droppings are the sort of ingredients a DM is supposed to think up for magic item manufacture! The likes of 'the roar of a lion' or 'the tears of a nymph as she dies from a broken heart, collected by the light of the full moon'. Given these rules, only adventurers who had for e.g. found a better magic sword than they previously had would be willing to sell one - and who could afford to buy one anyway? Only a lower level adventurer probably, and who's to say they would have the amount of money such an item ought to cost? Of course, there is also the economy to think about. What merchant has the money to buy a magic sword +1 for a reasonable asking price of 1000 GPs, and who can he hope to sell it to? In my campaign, I demand the PC's spend money on expenses, and above all, guild costs for training. If you follow the rules outlined, this leaves very little disposable cash for PCs. Of course, I don't expect everyone to want to play the way I play but the spirit of my campaign is what I believe to be the closest to that intended by the makers of it - where magic is rare and wonderful and highly prized. Adventuring is the hardest of all 'careers', with the carrot always before the nose, and almost never attained! This way, when a player _does_ achieve something like successfully research a new spell, go up a level, find a treasure horde, he gets excited about it!
Faraer 08-01-03, 01:43 PM	In the Realms 'as she is wrote', some temples sell potions, and other minor trinkets like light stones (bearing continual light/flame enchantments) are sometimes sold. Curio shops in large cities may have occasional magical things among their wares. Individuals occasionally trade items of magic for coin, goods, or services. But there are no magic shops. The Realms is magic-heavy in that mages and priests aren't especially rare and the world has a high density of magical variety and invention, within a carefully constructed magical ecology -- the published Realms began with historied devices and unique spells which dismantled the idea of emotionally empty +1 and +3 this and thats. Now, in the 3Eized Realms magic items are commonly bought and sold to match the new rules in which they are, undeniably, commoditized. DMs have to decide between fidelity to the setting as intended and following the new rules in which magic is product.
keldor 08-01-03, 01:58 PM	'Historied' items - that's a great point I meant to mention. In a world where magic is really rare, the items that _do_ exist would likely have been made by very powerful, and thus probably very well known (at least at one time), wizards. This can be used to advantage of the campaign when a player discovers a magical item and thinks about where it came from. With the Legend Lore spell they could get a huge kick out of knowing that the item once belonged to...Drizzt or Elminster, etc. Afterall, magical items would get 'handed on' by those who went on to bigger and better things.
Azuresabre 08-01-03, 02:49 PM	Awwwww.....The age old question, do you allow a Magic Item shop to exist in your campaign? I general I say yes, but only for minor items i.e. Healing potions, scrolls, with a few odds and ends in the way of wands, staves, rods, weapons (daggers mostly) etc... but be sure to make the charges in charged items very low, it won't do for a low level mage just to swing by and pick up a wand of lightning with a few dozen charges. And always make the price a few thousand more than what it is actually worth. If they want it badly enough they'll drop the coin. but it should in essence, be a "last resort" item, something that can burn out really easily if used more than a few times. As for the discount stuff, naw....... make em' pay. a mage went htrough a lot of work to build the damn thing, what ever it is, make them show some monatary appriecation.
BILLYtheGOATofTERROR 08-01-03, 03:25 PM	This is one of my favorites! In 3rd edition the balancing scale of mid to high level PCs assumes that they have tens of thousands of gold peices worth of magic items at their disposal. To limit the frequency of said items in a campaign for reasons of verisimilitude is your perogotive but realize you endanger your player-characters lives becuase of it. With the inclusion of the 3.5 Damage Reduction system one can get away with a bit more stinginess in the magic weapon department but remember that the +3 in that short sword is meant to balance that 10th level rogue; to keep him on the power curve. As for magic shoppes (yes I olde time spelled it, you got a problem? :D). Whatever is clever. I can certainly see why one would not have them, and to an extent agree, but if there are stores that cater to high powered individuals then your characters are going to have the oppurtunity to choose the items that they wield as opposed to making due with the items in the dragon horde, beholder den, what have you. Also the existence of these stores can help show your PCs how common the adventuring profession really is in the great world of Fearun, which is an undeniable fact!
keldor 08-01-03, 04:17 PM	Interesting. I read somewhere that only 2% of the population are adventurers, give or take. To continue this on the idea of magic shops...Of that 2% approx. 1 in 5? will be wizards - going strictly by the numbers - in reality, warriors and thieves would be the most common, followed by priests (with all the monsters and horrors of such a wild world many people would take up praying!), with the arcane arts practitioner a clear last on the grounds that his knowledge is secret and obtuse, sometimes long lost and closely guarded - not to mention very intellectually demanding (which means long hours pouring over dusty books i.e. no social life - not very alluring). Of this small number of wizards, how many will ever achieve the heights of power whereby they can create magical items? Considering the numbers so many of us have known that spent their last few hours blundering about hopelessly out of their depth with a single magic missile, not many! I agree it's a bit of a dilema since a) it's only a game and thus, really, whatever brings the most fun is surely best, b) players would quickly lose interest if they fought their way through hordes of monsters time and again to only find, if they're outstandingly lucky, a measly potion of healing! On the other hand, there's not much worse for the DM when the players poke about the treasure horde with their intelligent swords , decked out in robes of eyes and helms of teleportation and moan about how they'll never be able to get a decent price on _another_ magic carpet.
BILLYtheGOATofTERROR 08-02-03, 12:10 AM	Keldor, man, you're preaching to the choir. (at least with me) This is the goat playing devil's advocate: I read somewhere that only 2% of the population are adventurers, give or take That's actually quite a bit... considering the adventurers that become good at their profession have gobs of money to throw around I don't see a huge problem with there being 'magic shoppes' in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and other large, adventurer-friendly metros. Consider the prominence of real world 'magic stores' (i.e. sleight of hand, juggling, card tricks). Every large city has one and maybe 2% of the populace want a damned thing in it but, miraculously, they stay afloat. Now consider the profit margin for a 7th level human wizard with a few 'Craft..' feats and some overhead. He can double his money, only loose a little experience while raking in the gold (when compared to any other crafts-person or artisan) for the sale of a simple +1 dagger. I know you play 2E so this is much different for you and your group but item creation in 3E is cake-walk making the existence of 'magic shoppes' that sale low powered, yet useful, items to the rich and adventurous extremely pluasible. the goat is putting down the pitch-fork Now, as the realms are written, there are no 'magic shoppes' besides the occasional Red Wizards' Enclave and I like that; One of the reasons I disliked 2E was that it was so hard to make magic items, so when 3E released with clear and simple rules for their creation I jumped on it. To have a place that a PC can buy her +2 Sonic Burst long sword will negate both the balancing factor of randomized treasure and the a well constructed magic creation system.
Hez 08-02-03, 03:44 AM	Well, I make magic items available to player characters to purchase, however, this is where the FRCS is my greatest ally. See, in the FRCS, most cities and towns that get a "write-up" (meaning, a statistics block on population, percentages, adventurers of note, etc.) also have a max GP value/capacity, just as per the rules in the DMG. They also usually have lists of notable NPCs of certain classes/levels in the city. That ultra-nifty city-builder web enhancement relased on the website a little bit ago also follows this formula. Now what does this have to do with anything, you ask? Say my character wants a wand of Fireball. He rolls into town, and makes some Gather Information checks, or something appropriate to find a spellcaster capable of creating such a thing. Now, the DM looks over the list of "NPCs of Note" in the town's write-up. He finds there is a 6th level Wizard in town. Now, a Wizard of 6th level is capable of having the Craft Wand feat, and the Fireball spell. What follows is a series of rolls, or arbitrary decisions by the DM, to decide if this particular 6th level Wizard has the feats and spell necessary to craft this wand for me, and rolls/decides whether the wizard has some kind bias towards/against me (based on something like race, gender, religion, class, alignment, etc.) So say that all systems are a go. The 6th level Wizard has Craft Wand, and has Fireball, and he doesn't have some kind of hatred for me. So, voila, wand of Fireball, right? Wrong. The DM looks at the cost of the wand of Fireball. And then compares it to the town's GP limit. It's a small town, despite having a decent-level wizard, and it simply does not have the facilities available to the wizard to craft such an item. So, as a result, I have to go on a quest for the wizard or for the town proper, to get the necessary gold or material components necessary for the construction of my wand. So, in this example, we've turned a rather simple attempt to purchase a Wand of Fireball into an adventure hook. Nice, yes? On the flipside, if the DM decides that such an item would unbalance the campaign, he can simply decide that unfortunately the wizard lacks the feat/spell and while he'd love to help us, he can't. This isn't the same thing as saying arbitrarily "No, no wand for you." The player could travel to a much bigger city. They may not have that kind of wizard/facilities/money in Random Podunk Town #5, but in nearby Waterdeep, however... And once again, we arrive at an adventure seed for the DM, which is always a Good Thing. Perhaps during their journey to find someone capable of making the magic item they need, the PCs advance to a level where the DM feels the magic item is fair. In short, there's nothing that binds the DM into allowing you to buy any magic item you have the GP for. He can come up with all sorts of reasons why you can't have it right now. I've listed a few. Another really good (evil?) example is the Thayan Enclaves. Thayans offer to make magic on the cheap, if you need something simple like a +1 sword or a potion of invisibility. But you need something rare or potent? Well, your Friends in Thay® are more than happy to help you, but your desired item requires a certain component that's particularely rare/dangerous/hard to get/illegal etc. Once again, more story hooks. More story hooks equal more fun!
paradoxmage 08-05-03, 05:10 AM	I think shops are fine, and yes 10% sounds reasonable but I would certainly make it that these shops exist only in cities that if not as big close to waterdeep. I would keep small things not more than 1000gp can be found in temples(divine items), 500 for arcane in temples(there are arcane followers), and in these shops found in cities I would definetly not have anything over 10,000 gp for sale due to the fact that they are not only rarely sold(because anything that expensive or more is useful in many ways and a character would be hard pressed to want to sell it) but are rarely created and sold Of course thay would be an exception to this rule, they are known to sell magic items of rareity(if they didnt want it themselves that is) but I personaly make every item they make and sell to be tainted in some way(like addictive potions, make them want to come back for more :smirk: )
Bazcasta 08-05-03, 12:52 PM	2% huh... thats aprox. 110,000 adventures about Faerun... I added up the populations from all the places in the FRCS, and got around 5.5 million, give or take the people who aren't in there, and blah blah. But it was close to that.:D ---Edit--- I use shops but I used them way to much when I started DMing (in-expeirenced), and now I make them less and less every session. The way I see it is, why would they have a market price for items if they couldn't be should... although my players aren't going to find "Hedar's Helm o' Brillance Shope" EVER. I limit it to a certain size of item power for the cities GP limit. Waterdeep, IMC, probably has up to 50% of medium items. But the hamlet to the south has maybe a few potions, or a scroll or two... I do it case-by-case.
primemover003 08-05-03, 06:02 PM	Well in the silver Marches it says you can find minor magical items in Silverymoon. I've taken that as anything on the minor lists in the DMG and Magic of Faerun could be purchased. I mean with a Mage School and several major temples, magic item creation is pretty obvious, especially with the Magical Artisan Feat from the FRCS. I have a Wiz 5/Harper Mage 5 in the party who joined the Spellguard to get the discounted tuition at the Lady's College. He now makes most of the magic items for the party. The cleric of the Party also just took Craft Magic Arms and Armor as his 12th level feat and will be using it to make +4 items!!! (I'm still using 3.0 till we start a new campaign)
BILLYtheGOATofTERROR 08-05-03, 07:51 PM	The cleric of the Party also just took Craft Magic Arms and Armor as his 12th level feat and will be using it to make +4 items!!! So, as a successful adventurer that regularly works at his career - rare, I admit - can easily produce low-cost magic items, in a fairly large scale. It's pluasible, whether or not your Realms has 'magic Shoppes' is up to you. As for the Universities in Silverymoon and and other large cities; I can see these being the magic depositories that the PCs need to stay balanced.
Frodo Lives 08-05-03, 10:27 PM	Magic Items in my campaign are for sale, but only low level scrolls and wands, some potions and anything else in the minor catagory is occasionally offered. I do allow the characters to commision magic items at a steep price and make them wait the appropriate time for them, and I also have individuals that make a living by acting as a go between to buy and sell other magic items. This gives the characters a way to sell unwanted or older magic items and gives me some control over what they can get. Most of the magic that they have is what they have found on adventures or gained as rewards, but it doesn't make much sense to allow them to sell magic items but not make it possible to buy them. I just control what is available, if it will unbalance the game or is too powerful, it's not available. I generally don't make anything available that is more powerful or comparable power to the better items that they have found or been rewarded with.