Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NeriandalFreit 08-18-06, 09:12 AM	I'm usually a Candlekeep.com forum (vist us here!) (www.candlekeep.com) only poster, but I'm seeking as much insight as I possibly can gather from everyone and have came to the Wizard.com boards for the time being. After a years worth of time, I am slowly beginging the creation of my long standing idea campaign titled, "Triangle of Three". The Spoiler Block is a slight glimpse into what I am going to be doing, so you can put in your two cents into suggesting materials I can use. I do also plan on making this a story-like thing as well, and not just a campaign to better the story of the campaign and characters involved into the campaign, something I notice we lack sometimes *wink*. The Triangle of Three is a large campaign that is going to be featuring, and telling the story of three of Faerun’s most beloved Gods. Selune the Moonmaiden. Chauntea the Great Mother. Lathander the Morninglord. This tale and adventure involves the three churches in an epic journey that spans across all of Faerun, parts of Toril and the planes them selves. What the Triangle of Three is, no one living can say for sure. It was said to have been forged by the three deities millenias ago, perhaps when Lathander first arrived or soon after, it’s also been said that perhaps that Amaunthor, Keeper of the Eternal Sun was the one who forged it. Either way, it’s a powerful artifact that dark hands are seeking to have for them selves. Shar, Mistress of the Night and sister to Selune, enemy of all three has began the search for the Triangle, hoping to have a foot inside each of their doors and a way to bring all three of them down once and for all. The tale has only begun for several mortals upon Torils surface. The battles to come they have no knowledge of, their love of their gods they will be challenged upon, and the strength within the selves to prevent the evils to getting the Triangle of Three will be mighty. The Triangle of Three begins... Prepare, here comes a long list of questions for the books, both Source and Novels, that I will need. They aren't in no particular order, so bear with me on that front! 1. What Novels involve Lathander? 2. What Novels involve Selune? 3. What Novels involve Chauntea? 4. What is the best sourcebook to create a massive campaign, DMG? 5. What 2E materials would you recommend best? I have the Three Gods books, Faiths-Powers-Demihuman. 6. I own half of the 2E Encyclopedia Magica's, but what books would you recommend to create Magical Items? 7. Have you involved the clergies of Lathander, Selune or Chauntea heavily in your campaign? 8. If so, what did you do with them? 9. Tips, tricks and infomation into creating campaigns? 10. What is the best way to lay everything out, or the way the works for you? 11. In creating creatures, is Monster Manual a good guide or would you recommend something else? 12. Are you good at creating templates/altering templates and willing to help out if I need the help? 13. Would you be interested in playing a detailed, interesting campaign that isn't a Realms Shattering Event of a large magnitude? 14. Whats the corniest, cheesiest thing one needs to avoid while creating a campaign? I believe that is it for now, I'm sure I'll come around with another round of questions after a while, but I think thats enough for the time being. Answer only what you can, I'm not asking for anyone one person to answer all...fourteen questions right now, just seeking out information as best I can. As a note though, dont take my idea! I know it's a public forum at a public place, but I plan on creating this campaign and offering it to Candlekeep.com for you to play! Cause we all know that getting good campaigns from a thirty dollar book is a rairty, so you might as well get a good one for free! Edit: No, I'm not a new member persay, I'm an old member who left this forum for tartyness and other things. I just had to create a new username, one that better me then my former.
Lord Karsus 08-18-06, 09:32 AM	1. What Novels involve Lathander? -There is a cleric of Lathander in the Rogue Dragons Trilogy. Pavel is his name. For more info on Lathander, check out the 2e sourcebook Faiths and Avatars 2. What Novels involve Selune? -The novel Mistress of the Night surprisingly deals mostly with Selûnites. For more info on Selûne, check out the 2e sourcebook Faiths and Avatars 3. What Novels involve Chauntea? -The Moonshae trilogy is your best bet, methinks. For more info on Chauntea, check out the 2e sourcebook Faiths and Avatars 4. What is the best sourcebook to create a massive campaign, DMG? -All of them. The more you have, the more options you have to throw in your game, including monsters, NPCs, ideas, organizations, and so on...
NeriandalFreit 08-20-06, 09:21 AM	I've got most of those books, and as stated I've got the three god books (Faiths, Demi and Powers.) Anyone else care to assit me out here? Ideas, suggestions, thoughts?
Eisel 08-20-06, 10:15 AM	As far as books go, you have the best resource possible right there at the Candlekeep library. When I'm looking for specific sorts of books, I go there and read the descriptions. As for actually creating your campaign, you really didn't give us enough information on how it is to be played. Will it be a PBP or PBeM or a mixture of both or something else entirely? Will you have a whole website or just a mail group or forum board? Will it be geared to people who are familiar with FR, or open to everyone? Kinda need to know those things to give you any suggestions for building the game . . .
NeriandalFreit 08-20-06, 10:20 AM	I'm going to sound like a complete newb here, but PBP, PBeM? But I'll go ahead and answer the things I can for sure. I would love to have a website or something geared toward the Triangle of Three just to keep it geared on that, though I doubt I will manage to have something like that at the time being, though who knows cause this will likely take me a while to compile. My main goal is to offer it to Candlekeep as perhaps some downloadable source at some point, but not right away, simply because it'll take a while to compile. But yes, this is going to be more Forgotten Realms orienated (as hinted in my Spoiler block).
Eisel 08-20-06, 05:26 PM	Ooookay. Starting from scratch. You need to decide how you want the game to run. A PBeM is a Play By Email. You get a mailgroup (you can get them free from Yahoo or MSN, etc). Your players register with your group and the game is conducted through email. A PBP is run through boards just like this. You set up forums where people will actually play (one forum might be Waterdeep, one might be 'wilderness'). You can get them free many places; I recommend invisionfree. A PBeM is for a nice long campaign, with posting usually once or twice a week. And I do mean long - a combat situation can take a month or more for 6 rounds. A PBP goes faster, but in my opinion, is really geared more towards city play rather than campaign play. What I generally recommend is a combination of the two. All of your city stuff (social roleplay, purchases, spell writing, etc.) can take place in the cities of a PBP, while the long term campaigns can run through the mail group. Additionally, a mail group gives you a place to store files. If you are going to allow players who don't know FR, you are going to have to give them some information about it. The file storage is a perfect place for that. Just be very careful about the information you offer - use your own knowledge and don't infringe on any copyrights! And all of that is moot, if what you are doing is simply creating a campaign to offer to other people to run, rather than a game you will be running. :)
NeriandalFreit 08-20-06, 09:30 PM	Most certainly none of the above. My goal is to make it a printable/downloadble thing that people can print out and do it out like a campaign book if you will.
NeriandalFreit 11-03-06, 08:56 AM	Thought I would ressurect my old topic being that I've basically have completed the Redeemers of Dawn, an organization that will soon be realsed on Candlekeep.com So give me your tips, suggestions and all that fun stuff for creating campaigns on a larger scale for you the player.
MerrikCale 11-04-06, 03:59 PM	First of all, I do like your campaign idea. I like Selune/Shar stuff. What is the Redeemers of Dawn?
GothicDan 11-04-06, 04:00 PM	I know who you are. /creepy. Hit me up on a messenger sometime, and I'll give you some of my AMAZINGLY ENLIGHTENED! opinions about your campaign. Between calculating the electric fields outside of polarized linear dieelectrics and the like.
Raelan_Harpell 11-05-06, 02:02 AM	1. What Novels involve Lathander? 2. What Novels involve Selune? 3. What Novels involve Chauntea? Oddly enough, the novel "Tymora's Luck" (which is a sequel to "Finder's Bane") involves all three, though the reference to Chauntea is only in passing. 4. What is the best sourcebook to create a massive campaign, DMG? Pretty much everything you've got. Drawing from multiple sources helps add depth. You might want to consult the Book of Artifacts for general info on how 2nd Ed. artifacts work and how to place them in your campaign. Also, take a look at Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, which has an extensive section detailing artifacts of the Realms. 5. What 2E materials would you recommend best? I have the Three Gods books, Faiths-Powers-Demihuman. Um, well, it depends on where in the Realms (and elsewhere) the game will be set in. The Forgotten Realms campaign setting is a must, of course. On top of that, whatever regional sources detail the areas play will take place within. You've already got the books detailing the deific and religious info, so you're set in that regard. As for the planar stuff, I'd recommend the Planescape campaign setting, the Planescape monstrous compendium book (a must for just about any D&D game, really, since it details fiends and celestials), and the various "Planes Of _____" boxed sets. For the latter, Planes of Law details the lawful planes, Planes of Chaos is, of course, the chaotic planes, and Planes of Conflict is the neutral planes (at least, I think those are the titles - I had to sell off most of my non-FR 2nd Ed. stuff to make rent a couple years ago, so I can't check). If you want to use Sigil, then "In the Cage: a Guide to Sigil" will also be invaluable. 6. I own half of the 2E Encyclopedia Magica's, but what books would you recommend to create Magical Items? Um...Volo's Guide to All Things Magical presents an alternate method for creating magical items useable by lower-level spellcasters. The Wizard's Handbook and Book of Artifacts also have information about magical item creation, IIRC. 9. Tips, tricks and infomation into creating campaigns? Realize that Murphy exists. No matter how well you've laid out your campaign, the players WILL take it in unforeseen directions unless you try to straightjacket them into following your plot exactly. The latter is a good recipe for destroying the players' interest in the game, so don't do it; instead, be ready to improvise. Have contingency plans ready, do your research on the regions the play is happening in, and know the NPCs they're likely to interact with. That way, you'll be able to improvise effectively even if the players do the unexpected - you'll have enough source material to work with to improvise on the fly. As for campaigns in general, you need to be very, very careful with epic-scale adventures. It's too easy to go overboard and destroy the players' (and your own!) ability to suspend their disbelief. Avoid multiple personal appearances by the gods even in a campaign such as this. Instead, have the gods work through their proxies and servants. This is where their clergy become an invaluable tool: "The next morning, a wide-eyed young acolyte of ______ stumbles into the taproom at a dead run as you're eating breakfast. He makes directly for your table and babbles something at you. After a moment, he manages to sort himself out, and..." 10. What is the best way to lay everything out, or the way the works for you? I mostly make notes about the various locations, groups, and NPCs I expect to be involved in the game, but otherwise keep things in memory. I've found that players are often too unpredictable for a campaign to follow a rigorous outline, so it's best to decide on certain key(ed) events but leave their exact circumstances and point in the timeline vague to allow for player ingenuity. In short: don't plan everything out ahead of time. Just plan out the important stuff and let the gameplay create the rest. 14.[/B] Whats the corniest, cheesiest thing one needs to avoid while creating a campaign? Gods making personal appearances (except, possibly, at the climax or very beginning of the game) ranks pretty high up there. A personal appearance by a deity should be a rare, awesome (in the literal meaning of the word: "full of awe"), and humbling experience. Avoid overusing *bad* stereotypes. Avoid avoiding stereotypes so much that every drow elf is good aligned, every solar is evil, etc. Stereotypes (i.e. drow are evil) should be a general guideline to follow about 90% of the time. With certain creatures such as demons and the like, this should increase to 100% or very nearly so. Do NOT, under any circumstances, allow NPCs to overshadow the players. This is, perhaps, one of the easiest mistakes to make when running a game. You create a really badass NPC, then become so enamored of your creation that you want him/her/it to take center stage and thus end up making the players feel like they were only spectators. (Trust me, I learned this one the hard way.)
NeriandalFreit 11-06-06, 12:51 PM	Yes, I knew of Finders Bane and Tymora's Luck, novels I've still not got around to purchasing yet for some reason. I really do need to grab those here soon. So check out the "Planes of ____" box sets, along with Volo's Guide To All Things Magical, perhaps even The Wizards Handbook and Book of Artifacts. It's not so much the 2E gameplay I'm seeking, but rather ideas to properly explain and create the Triangle of Three. I know that players will choose and pick the own path of the campaign. I'm more or less really wanting to create enough paths to ultimately will lead to the story line. And of course, I really don't plan on making personal appearances by any of the gods, unless maybe it's like a beautiful, large woman walking with a staff and glancing at people to get their attention (Chauntea) before leaving. But yes, proxies and all of that sort was and is in the plans to be used, especially since I'll be plane jumping some here and there with this. The NPC's of the story was/is basically like maincharacters to it, I was hoping that I could get players to join with them and be involved into the story. Think of it like this, four NPC's and you the player make the other "several that will challenge their beliefs..." and so forth. That the NPC's would be just as much a part as real as you the player are. Alright, so to answer some other questions - Yes, yes you do Dan. The Redeemers of Dawn. They are a project of mine that I've been working on, creating, destroying, recreating and making them as real, and cannon like into the Forgotten R. They're a group of ____'s, ____'s and _____'s alike that are dedicated to Lathander for roughly three hundred years and still play a roll today. I can't say to much more about them, but, I've been told many times over that this entire idea and the way I've managed to create them, is a unique and true to Toril.
Melblen_Cairn 11-08-06, 12:36 PM	As far as sourcebooks on the deity descriptions and thos eof their orders I would direct you to the 2e versions previously mentioned as well as the FRCS and Faiths and Pantheons books. Players guide to Faerun also gives you a great picture of the Planer Cosmotology of the Realms. When I have a campaign idea iusually file it away in an idea book first untill I have time to flesh it out. I then add a bit more info somehow insert it into the realms. I then have to decide if its somethign that will even effect the current PCs. You have to ask yourself is this something the PCs will care about. If you have a PC thats a follower of one of the faiths then its likely yes. I then do a rough outline on how to possibly get the PCs hooked in and where and when I would like to see some of the major encounters occur. When it comes down to plotting the course of the campiagn, your villans have goals and plans. Set up a villan timeline for key events in their plans. If the PCs do nothing such and such event will take place. If the PCs manage to foil some portion of the master plan then you can remove the even or push it to another time as your villans compensate. You dont want to go into too much detail of what occurs when and too far in advance. Things will begin to feel linear of forced. it will detract fromt he PCs choices. So I sit down the night after each session with the notes I have made and make alterations and make notes of possible encounters and situations that could occurr in the next couple sessions based on the actions of the PCs that session. When crafting encounters and monsters use all of the MM's and the feind folio and any other sources you might have. I like to tie in some monster the PCs havent faced every now and then to spice things up for them. But make sure it will still fit in with your campaign. I often come up with Templates if there are going to be a number of different base creatures that are going to be changed in some way and have all the same abilities. For example some forms of undead templates. I often look at existing templates to pull sideas from those. I use the dm genie to assist me in running campaigns so I often have to script my own stuff for templates. I will be more then happy to lend you a hand with any input I can.
Zsych 11-10-06, 02:15 PM	In creating a campaign, I'd just go with the knowledge that I already have and start creating, putting ideas down, and then putting more ideas down, randomly. If you come up with an interesting thought, write it down(somehow one manages to forget even one's most amazing ideas at times). After you've managed to sit there for an hour or two, and written all manner of random(possibly interesting stuff), categorize it, and see how much of it you think you can use(and what you might want to use in some other campaign). It's unfortunate that not every good idea can be put together in one coherent system. --- With a campaign with Shar among the main baddies, you should consider whether you can rework Shade enclave into an interesting weapon for her. If Shar and her people are going to stand in opposition to three powerful gods, who have even more allies(which should not be forgotten), then there must be considerable careful planning and gathering of resources on Shar's part(besides the moving around in the shadows... not that a few very serious shows of force, won't be needed from time to time(other gods as proxies are good, but she must also have her own powerful forces).. ) Feints are good too. Should be used whenever possible(though not in a way that players don't find out about them at some point). Have many different layers(and subdivisions) of plans going on for a large campaign. (Plus, when you can manage it, two or three plans where the players are looking for feints all turning out to be actual plans can be cool) .. Also, focussing on a few major artifacts is probably not enough. Let there be a fair amount of other stuff and other plans. ... It's all about the enjoyment in the end, not really the complexity of the game though. So one has to manage that aspect(interesting twists and such shouldn't be too far apart.. but also shouldn't be too close together without preperations, or it seems unreal). ... btw, you should probably read plenty of novels and comics and such, for more ideas.
GothicDan 11-10-06, 02:32 PM	Sucks to Shade! ;)
anjinson 11-26-06, 10:53 AM	Along the lines of the plot...someone mentioned something about players taking paths outside your storyline. Boy do they!! I find the best thing to do is timeline events in your game, this way things occur but the players have the choice to participate or not. If you keep a calendar, and the players for some reason do not participate...they will hear about it after the fact, rumors and such. I am in a similar situation and although I went to through the process of writing enormous amounts of material...some of which is still unused...some of the best sessions have involved tangent routes and off shoots to the main plot. In fact, it is quite possible they may never get there...but it will be their choice. I tried pushing games in a certain direction and it does not work, players have the most fun when they feel they are making the decisions...masters of their own destiny. Of course we all know the truth! :D