Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drath'ri 03-12-06, 10:22 PM	What exactly would a drow in Menzoberranzan be put through to become a master? i mean after graduation... right now two or my PC's are attempting to become them and what exactly would a Priestess of Lolth have to do in Arach TInilith have to do to becoem a full-fledged high priestess? thanks in advance
ElGrecoETAC 03-12-06, 11:50 PM	Dinin Do'Urden was a 12th level Fighter and a Master of Melee-Magthere. In 3E, 11 levels will give you 3 attacks per round. That seems like a pretty good milestone, IMHO. High Priestess seems like a pretty subjective title. I would offer a couple of suggestions: 1) A priestess whose ambition, talent, and ability meet certain pre-requisites. E.g., high enough stats, high enough level. 2) In the 2E "Drow of the Underdark", Drow (Wizards and Clerics, IIRC?) undertook a Test at 6th level. Failures became Driders or fled society. Perhaps that's what separates a "High" Priestess from a normal one--level-based ability gained through a major test of devotion.
Zanan 03-13-06, 03:10 AM	Generally, priestesses graduated the academy as Clr 6 or 7 (depending on what edition you play, you may chnage this to C or P 6 or 7 (C - Cleric, P - specialty priestess (in this case Arachne)). No special tests or something. Lolth does indeed test certain characters, usually males ... but not each and everyone. AFAIK, nothing has been said about the Masters of the fighters' school either. It is probably related to a certain fighting style too, as in: master is a title not necessarily directly linked to a certain level or test.
Ripe 03-13-06, 03:26 AM	As far as Masters of Sorcere and Melee-Magthere are concerned I think that any 11th level or higher Wizard or Figther (and only those two classes) would qualify. With High Priestesses, situation is slightly different. The rank of High Priestess does not depend on level or power - it depend on whether the priestess in question wield Whip of Fangs (or, as it's called in 3E/3.5, Scourge of Fangs) or not. The reason for it is that during 2nd ed. creating one required Lolth's consent [and they would actually turn on the priestess if she act against Lolth's will], so anyone owning one obviously have Lolth's favor.
ElGrecoETAC 03-13-06, 12:33 PM	Generally, priestesses graduated the academy as Clr 6 or 7 ... No special tests or something. I was referring to the Test as a matter of becoming a High Priestess, not of simply graduating from Arach-Tinilith. As far as that goes, 6th or 7th level for graduating from the Academy? Lolth does indeed test certain characters, usually males ... but not each and everyone. I don't have Drow of the Underdark handy (I'm on a weekend vacation), do you? I'm fairly sure that little bit of info should be applied only to hardcore Lolthite societies, not, say, cities dominated by Vheraun, wizards, or the like. All the same, though, it pointed, IIRC, to all Wizards and Clerics. Hence why I thought it might make for a good criterion for promotion to High Priestess.
ElGrecoETAC 03-13-06, 12:34 PM	With High Priestesses, situation is slightly different. The rank of High Priestess does not depend on level or power - it depend on whether the priestess in question wield Whip of Fangs (or, as it's called in 3E/3.5, Scourge of Fangs) or not. The reason for it is that during 2nd ed. creating one required Lolth's consent [and they would actually turn on the priestess if she act against Lolth's will], so anyone owning one obviously have Lolth's favor. Hmmm. I didn't remember that at all. I mean, I remembered that consent was required to create the item, but not that the item was tied into one becoming a High Priestess...
Ripe 03-13-06, 07:20 PM	Hmmm. I didn't remember that at all. I mean, I remembered that consent was required to create the item, but not that the item was tied into one becoming a High Priestess... It came from Elaine Cunningham's Daughter of the Drow, when after Shakti undergoes her attuning ceremony Triel great her with these words: "You need not return to Academy, except to attend graduation ceremonies when the time comes. You are free to attend your family business, bearing the full rank and honor of High Priestess. ..."
ElGrecoETAC 03-14-06, 08:06 AM	Cool, thanks. :)
Ramar Aulinvox 03-16-06, 01:45 PM	Dragon Issue #298 has a slew of tests that you can put drow through. More specifically, masters of melee and sorcery are usually males that have either abandoned their houses or are hiding [such as the characters in the War of the Spider Queen series]. As such, there may not be anything to the title of master than being a graduate of the given academy and returning to be a teacher [probably w/ a "gift" (spell that bribe) to give to the academy that would reserve him a place]. As a general approximation as to who is usually a master, I like the suggestion that for Melee Magatha one have three attacks around [probably include prof. w/ all simple and martial weapons, all armors, and shields]. One could be of lower level or have fewer attacks, but that would require a special "gift." For sorcery, I would say that a certain aptitutde w/ magic is required (know(arcana) rank 12; spellcraft rank 12; know(planes) 5), a certain "deference" to Lolth (know(religion) 4), and an ability to cast spells [reflected in either an ability to cast a certain level of spells or besting a current master of sorcery in a dual]. Another requirement might be giving either a spell created by the applicant or a unique magic item [minimum gp value of xxxxx] to the school.
Zanan 03-17-06, 10:57 AM	I was referring to the Test as a matter of becoming a High Priestess, not of simply graduating from Arach-Tinilith. As far as that goes, 6th or 7th level for graduating from the Academy? I was referring to Drathri's question about the high priestesses, not graduation at the academy - even though I would assume that it goes hand in hand. About levels ... it is an assumption (to my knowledge never written down the way I put it) taken from the Menzo box and other sources at the time. Most people addressed in there as high priestess stand at 7th or 8th level. Demihuman Deities refers to them as yathtallars. Some of them become matrons (ilharess), others do not (if mum and a few older sisters are still around). These yathtallars are known as Black Widows (Streaka'Valsharess). They may set up another house by moving out. The test and graduation as high priestess need not be the same. Speaking of tests, the relevant ... no, ONE relevant test is described in Faith & Pantheons, in the Arachne PrC entry. Not one of my favourites. I would not touch Dragon 298 with a bargepole when it comes to tests. This is Greyhawk stuff and far from being anything Realmsian. I don't have Drow of the Underdark handy (I'm on a weekend vacation), do you? Always! :cool: I'm fairly sure that little bit of info should be applied only to hardcore Lolthite societies, not, say, cities dominated by Vheraun, wizards, or the like. All the same, though, it pointed, IIRC, to all Wizards and Clerics. Hence why I thought it might make for a good criterion for promotion to High Priestess. As I said, there is very little being said about the actual levels, and I think even less is said about other faiths. We do not even know whether there are academies like the one in Menzo in existence in cities dominated by others faiths. A certain amount of ... say ... clerical spellpower and knowledge should always form the basis though. I leave the arcane stuff to others.
BrianCritchley 03-17-06, 04:12 PM	I figured the masters of the academy where selected by the misstriss of the academy. and where a mix of rewards for skill and political appointments.
Cli' San Aquanova 06-17-06, 09:52 PM	Thread necro FTW. I assume what you're talking about Zanan mostly applies to Menzoberranzan? Races of Faerun and Underdark mention rogue/thief academies and assassin academies in addition to the known warrior/priestess/mage academies. Any ideas how those would operate? I suppose the Deathsingers were an alumnus of an academy in Menzo. -C'SA :u:Bring Back Merfolk!!!:u:
Zanan 06-18-06, 04:50 AM	Obviously, most knowledge comes from Menzo, as other drow cities have yet to be detailed in such accuracy. We do know of Halisstra that she was trained in a certain bardic tradition, but that seems to have happened in-house rather than in a special academy. Speaking of which, IMHO, any decent drow house (noble or not) could act as a thieves' or assassins' guild for purposes of training. Same goes for fighter academies. That does not exclude the autonomous (sp?) existence of such institutions either, of course. Mercenary companies might have their own facilities / experts to train their members too. You'd have to differentiate between cities that are ruled by houses or, like Sshamath, have a different power structure. It is also unlikely that divided cities like Eryndlyn have a Fighters' School open to all parties etc..
Steropes 06-18-06, 05:56 AM	There is also The test of Lolt. it is made to 6-8 lvl chars and it is nothing harder that to fight (and win=kill) NPC whos cr is your +3(for PC). It is almost every time someone very close to you. If you lose(the NPC WILL kill you 'cos s/he belives it is Lolth will, and he is the chosen of Lolth) if tested somhow lives(escape or is left alive) tested will become drider. More info you can find in Faiths and Phanteons
Zanan 06-18-06, 07:20 AM	BTW, if people look for easy options ... and those that will not necessarily decimate the population of a drow city, try the Aleax of the Book of Exalted Deeds. Essentially a look-alike clone of the original character, send to punish him or her. Do remember that these test for drow are (AFAIK) only carried out amongst the Lolthites (maybe Selvetarmites). Vhaeraunians, Kiaransaleens, Ghaunadar et al will most likely not have somesuch.