Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DreamingGod 08-13-06, 10:05 PM	I was reading a thread and someone stated that Faerun and Earth were the same. Now asuming this is canon, I staeted think that they'd develop at nearly the same time. So What year DR would they be for PL 5, what would the technology be called, Who from FR canon would be alive (if any), what tech woul they *not* develop. I'll probly run a caimpagn in Modern Faerun, but lets make this an excercise in your imagination. :D
GothicDan 08-13-06, 10:13 PM	.. Uh. What the heck kind of thread did you read? FR and Earth are not the same.
CzarGarrett 08-14-06, 10:16 AM	There are vague similiarities between contiental structures and some cultures, but Toril and Earth are not the same. In fact, I believe the Imaskari were supposed to have taken humans from Earth (circa Ancient Egypt and the area) to build their empire.
Gray Richardson 08-14-06, 01:14 PM	They have been closely linked by portal throughout the ages, and there has been some traveling to and fro between individuals, cultures and myths. That is why the Forgotten Realms is called "Forgotten"... because the people of Earth have forgotten this land and remember it only in myth and folklore.
DreamingGod 08-14-06, 06:41 PM	Heh, thanks couldn't rember what exactly was said. :embarrass But Anywho, what year DR do you think they'd modernize?
GothicDan 08-14-06, 07:05 PM	Faerun IS modernized, for Faerun. You'll never see high-level tech in Faerun because technology doesn't function and magic exists.
DreamingGod 08-14-06, 07:17 PM	I mean our definition of Modernazation, y'know Guns, Modern Medicine, Planes, Global Travel... Yes they have magic, but Mages arn't that common. Global Travel is something the've never seemed to get down. Plus, some Non-Mage has to go up from smoke Powder, and start modernizing. Magic could even help them modernize FASTER. Plus they got Gnomes...damned Tinkerers.. :P
Myssa Rei 08-14-06, 07:19 PM	That's exactly Dan's point... Modern tech as we know it doesn't work in Faerun, as much as Magic doesn't work on Earth. And unless Gond suddenly changes his mind and goes against Oghma's dictates, tech in Faerun will never go beyond Late-Renaissance Earth in advancement.
lavekkia 08-14-06, 07:20 PM	Maybe you are referring to Oerth (home planet of greyhawk CS) and earth... in that case you're right. Another thing you could do is taking a look to Dragon 277 which details stemapunk and has and article to releplay greyhawk in the year 2000. This article however conflicts with general lore because it's stated that greyhawk magic is fading over time with the arrival of technology (sort of - explanation is much longer and complicated).
DreamingGod 08-14-06, 07:21 PM	Now where is the God's Mandate that they can't go beyond where they are?
DreamingGod 08-14-06, 07:23 PM	Maybe you are referring to Oerth (home planet of greyhawk CS) and earth... in that case you're right. Another thing you could do is taking a look to Dragon 277 which details stemapunk and has and article to releplay greyhawk in the year 2000. This article however conflicts with general lore because it's stated that greyhawk magic is fading over time with the arrival of technology (sort of - explanation is much longer and complicated). Well a look at Faerun and it seems like it is connected to Earth somehow, they have Babalonyians, Eygptians, Aztects (so that where they went! :P ) Asians... The Geography is nearly the same....
GothicDan 08-14-06, 07:32 PM	Most of the areas you talked about were not originally a part of Faerun. For example, the Unapproachable East, and Thay in particular, was the original 'strange eastern magic' area. Some of the Old Empires (Mulhorand, Chessenta, Unther) were only supposed to be vaguely linked to Egypt, Greece, and Sumeria, due to immigrants from Earth; but then they were supposed to have developed more unique cultures. Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, Zakhara, etc. are not a real part of the Realms. They were developed outside of it, to be NOTHING but Earth analogies, and later stuck on without any reason. And Ed Greenwood, the creator of the Realms, made the comment about technology level. I imagine it would be in Faiths and Avatars somewhere, too, but I can't recall off the top of my head.
Myssa Rei 08-14-06, 07:35 PM	Misconception: Faerun is based on Earth. Fact: Ed Greenwood, when he created the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting, never intended to create parallels between the countries and peoples of Faerun and Earth. That was TSR's fault when they started adding in some areas that figured in some stand-alone campaigns (such as the Bloodstone Lands), stories (the Moonshaes), or cultures (the Mulhorandi and people of Unther) As for the Godly Mandate against technology, that's been around since the advent of 2nd Edition, and before that, if some of the older scribes are correct. It's just one of those rules that are accepted as the norm for the campaign.
DreamingGod 08-14-06, 07:40 PM	Well cming into D&D at 3rd Ed... I wouldn't know that... BUT, if it breaks 'Canon' just use your imagination and just say what you'd think id be like... :rolleyes:
Myssa Rei 08-14-06, 07:50 PM	The thing is... a lot of us scribes (though I'm no where GothicDan's or the Sage's level) here on the boards are sticklers when it comes to campaign details... While we deviate somewhat with how we interpret the Realms in our own campaigns (for example, Kuje's campaign still has Myrkul as the god of the Dead), we try to keep as MUCH of the backstory intact. And we pretty much hang on Ed Greenwood's tidbits of lore as well (which, unless contested by Wizards, some of us consider canon).
GothicDan 08-14-06, 08:03 PM	Imagination? A bunch of aliens invade and give Faerun more technology, Mystra throws them out because it is weakening magic's hold. Done! (This is slightly sarcastic, but it's to prove a point - even if one is being imaginative, you still have to take into account the specifics of a setting when you are using it.) [I was compared to Sage? Be still my heart! ;)]
Old Sage 08-14-06, 08:11 PM	There are vague similiarities between contiental structures and some cultures, but Toril and Earth are not the same.Any poster wishing for a more complete analysis between the Realms and elements of Earth should visit visit the "Ed's Answers" URL in my sig for the website containing the compiled replies into file format. Specifically, look to his '06 reply file -- April entries.
Old Sage 08-14-06, 08:12 PM	I mean our definition of Modernazation, y'know Guns, Modern Medicine, Planes, Global Travel... Yes they have magic, but Mages arn't that common. Global Travel is something the've never seemed to get down. Plus, some Non-Mage has to go up from smoke Powder, and start modernizing. Magic could even help them modernize FASTER. Plus they got Gnomes...damned Tinkerers.. :PExcept that if you're taking about modern tech (or any type of derivative for that matter) that would run on electronic components or use electricity for power... it simply doesn't work in the Realms. We know this from the 1e and 2e FRCS box sets. To put it simply, the physics of Toril/Realmspace won't allow such aspects to function.
Old Sage 08-14-06, 08:12 PM	That's exactly Dan's point... Modern tech as we know it doesn't work in Faerun, as much as Magic doesn't work on Earth. And unless Gond suddenly changes his mind and goes against Oghma's dictates, tech in Faerun will never go beyond Late-Renaissance Earth in advancement.It's unlikely that even Gond or Oghma could completely counteract the physical dynamics of the FR setting that prevent certain technologies from operating in the Realms.
Old Sage 08-14-06, 08:14 PM	Now where is the God's Mandate that they can't go beyond where they are?The 1e/2e FR boxed sets contain the info about tech levels in the Realms. And Ed's discussed it several times over at Candlekeep. See the "Ed's Answers" sig in my URL for the compiled replies.
Old Sage 08-14-06, 08:16 PM	Most of the areas you talked about were not originally a part of Faerun. For example, the Unapproachable East, and Thay in particular, was the original 'strange eastern magic' area. Some of the Old Empires (Mulhorand, Chessenta, Unther) were only supposed to be vaguely linked to Egypt, Greece, and Sumeria, due to immigrants from Earth; but then they were supposed to have developed more unique cultures. Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, Zakhara, etc. are not a real part of the Realms. They were developed outside of it, to be NOTHING but Earth analogies, and later stuck on without any reason.That's right. And just to repeat myself, since this is important:- http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9839111&postcount=17
Grandpa Gamer 08-14-06, 09:15 PM	However unintended, you could draw some parallels - some obvious, some probably not . . . The Dales strike me as being like northern England in a Robin Hood vs Sheriff of Nottingham fashion; the Sword Coast is akin to the Rhineland in Germany or the Loire Valley in France - a series of city-states or autonomous castles/chateaux; the Dragon's Reach area would be like the city-states of Italy; The Vilhon Reach and The Vast would both have a slightly eastern flavor, as compared to the Heartlands, much like the Crusader kingdoms of Outremer; the Shining South always gave me a Hindi sub-continental vibe; The North / Silver Marches seems so Teutonic-Knights-blazing-out-the-prussian-wilderness to me; Rasheman just smacks of slavic folk-legend, particularly Baba Yaga's Hut; Not to mention the heavy-handed Egyptian references in Mulhorrand, the Celtic Albion of the Moonshae Isles, the pseudo-vikings of Ruathym, the mezo-americans of Maztica - and the corresponding hispanic feel of Amn, the African-Veldt feel of The Shar, the blatantly-mongol horde of The Endless Waste, and others. Trivia note: "ruathym" is a derivative of "ruatha", which is Irish-Gaelic for "across the water" :cool: Now, don't get me wrong, such correlations help to give a recognizable feel to the game when my parties travel around. However, to say that this doesn't square with The Ed's original vision rings hollow to my ears (if maybe hallow to yours! :D). After all, as one of my favorite 'Murphy's Laws' clearly states: "emperical data beats four aces". Nineteen years and uncounted published product later, Ed's hands have clearly been caught in the royalty jar.
GothicDan 08-14-06, 09:34 PM	And, oddly enough, I personally disagree with about half of that list.. ;) Which just goes to show, if you ask me, that the accusations that FR is blatantly based off of clear Earth analogues is pretty untrue. Something can't be obviously/easily recognizable as an analogue if numerous people see different analogues altogether... The more closely you look at each region's lore and culture, the less it seems like alternat Earth areas, if you ask me. Especially the more that Ed describes things, WITHOUT TSR/WotC shoving his creativity into a tiny, one-sized box.
Myssa Rei 08-15-06, 01:53 AM	I'll agree with Dan once more, since I'm a frequent visitor to Candlekeep myself... Ed's Realms draw more from his own perception on what Western Fantasy archetypes (the wise wizard-sage, the brave warrior-king, the self-important chronicler that doesn't have all his facts right--you know who you are, Volo...) are than actual real-world parallels. This fact should be fairly obvious to anyone who's actually read the campaign supplements that Ed has written over the years (the Volo's guides, and some recent fare like Power of Faerun)... Those parallels were shoed in by TSR (like Kara-Tur, Maztica, and most of the Unapproacheable East), without much thought since they seemed cool at the time. Get your facts right first, alright?
the_smoking_spell 08-15-06, 02:35 AM	dont yell at me if this was already said, but it indicates in the Forgotten Realms campaign Settign book that earth and other planets are millions of miles away. It says something to the effect that high level mages have scryed on a planet that is capped at each end with great glaciers. I think that was earth.
GothicDan 08-15-06, 02:58 AM	The majority of planets in a solar system with a setup similar to ours will have ice caps.
Gladi 08-15-06, 05:03 AM	Faerun IS modernized, for Faerun. You'll never see high-level tech in Faerun because technology doesn't function and magic exists. Bright day Wooden Stick +5 Frostbrand is superior to a iron longsword, growth spell is superior to caring for field for half a year with often dissapointing results... That said thanks to Golden Olden Days Fact and Good Guys Do Not Compete With Other Good Guys Over Limited Resources Rule and Cost Of Basic Goods Is Stable In Time Axiom majority of Fantasy settings won't see any technological and often not even socieatal change and upheaval.
GothicDan 08-15-06, 05:05 AM	Uhm. Sure. k...
Bladesong 08-15-06, 11:49 AM	Bright day Wooden Stick +5 Frostbrand is superior to a iron longsword, growth spell is superior to caring for field for half a year with often dissapointing results... That said thanks to Golden Olden Days Fact and Good Guys Do Not Compete With Other Good Guys Over Limited Resources Rule and Cost Of Basic Goods Is Stable In Time Axiom majority of Fantasy settings won't see any technological and often not even socieatal change and upheaval. I think I get what he's saying... He says that magic has an advantage over technology as it makes things that are difficult for us to do even today much easier. Then he mentions the stability of the economy due to "goodly" alliances and that the cost of goods is always stable. According to his theory, this leaves fantasy settings in a "time axiom" or a thoroughly stable niche in the timeline as little technological and societal change, as well as any upheavals occur. I diagree with that last part. Upheaval and change occur in fantasy settings all the time and that's the stuff we read about in fantasy books. Without those things, there would be no fantasy genre. Technological advances do occur, at least in the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. Remember that humans started out little more than cavemen in these settings and look at where they are now. Why he chose to word it as he did is beyond my understanding.
Gladi 08-15-06, 05:09 PM	I think I get what he's saying... He says that magic has an advantage over technology as it makes things that are difficult for us to do even today much easier. Then he mentions the stability of the economy due to "goodly" alliances and that the cost of goods is always stable. According to his theory, this leaves fantasy settings in a "time axiom" or a thoroughly stable niche in the timeline as little technological and societal change, as well as any upheavals occur. I diagree with that last part. Upheaval and change occur in fantasy settings all the time and that's the stuff we read about in fantasy books. Without those things, there would be no fantasy genre. Technological advances do occur, at least in the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. Remember that humans started out little more than cavemen in these settings and look at where they are now. Why he chose to word it as he did is beyond my understanding. I think "He" is being facetious. Also wasn't Eberron design exactly to provide greater world dynamics? Unscripted aligments, conflicting good causes, limited supply of certain coveted artifacts? The Wooden Stick +5 Frostbrand is about those who say "magical progress replaces all technological progress". Do people in fantasy fiction have some list and after checking off all advances they themselves "good work everybody, now stop advancing; and would somebody, please, take apart that mechanical singing bird and steam engine toy?" Golden Olden Days Fact- it was better in the past, and if they had magic it would roxxor! This is something which is fairly present in majority of high fantasy- the life itself is usually idylic. Of course such status quo to provide fun to PCs needs to be threaten by outside "evil" threats or "evil" asocials. Good Guys Do Not Compete With Other Good Guys Over Limited Resources Rule- this has basis in GODF, the world is bountifull and justly rewards "hard work", thus two entities won't find urgent need for same limited resource. Cost Of Basic Goods Is Stable Through Time Axiom- is derived directly from GGDNWOGGOLRR. With overall steady supply of goods on backdrop of fairly constant demand the cost of goods will remain same, in both absolute and relative terms. Oh, and anybody trying to "exploit" the market is of course evil. These three things remove lot of visible stress on society, making lack of certain features seem logical and believable. And that "technology" does not work. Technology isn' rocket scie... wait it is, but rocket science isn't any "advanced" technology- it is aplication of basic principles like property of gas expanding if heated. Post Scriptum: If "some person" knows fantasy book about campaign for goblin suffrage, tax reform, establishemnt of guilds, bank or stock exchanges, how new "teleporting circle" lead to greater population mobility or new use of golem in agriculture that freed large percentage of people to pursue other goals and tasks... could he point me to it?
GothicDan 08-15-06, 06:18 PM	China Mieville? And, oddly enough, the campaign setting I'm working on. There's a Magocracy that basically controls the flow of all information, goods, and magic; so the commoners are all stuck with stick-and-mud technology, but the main city is super high "tech," though "tech" is replaced by magic. So, there will be Communication Crystals that use Divination, instead of Telephones/Cameras, etc.
Gladi 08-15-06, 06:43 PM	China Mieville? And, oddly enough, the campaign setting I'm working on. There's a Magocracy that basically controls the flow of all information, goods, and magic; so the commoners are all stuck with stick-and-mud technology, but the main city is super high "tech," though "tech" is replaced by magic. So, there will be Communication Crystals that use Divination, instead of Telephones/Cameras, etc. Well I forgot to write high - though in Perdido Station it was mostly spiced up standard fare world as backdrop, not a world as a story. Like in Darksword series? Ah there, Darksword, I find sensible. Though care not much for all the sci-fi.
GothicDan 08-15-06, 07:36 PM	I've never read the Darksword series. Is it good? Maybe I could use it for some inspiration...
Old Sage 08-15-06, 09:04 PM	China Mieville? And, oddly enough, the campaign setting I'm working on. There's a Magocracy that basically controls the flow of all information, goods, and magic; so the commoners are all stuck with stick-and-mud technology, but the main city is super high "tech," though "tech" is replaced by magic. So, there will be Communication Crystals that use Divination, instead of Telephones/Cameras, etc.GD, have you been reading from my notebooks? :D
GothicDan 08-15-06, 09:44 PM	GD, have you been reading from my notebooks? ... No! *Curses, orders his Scrying Crystal back to America!*
Karsus the Mad 08-15-06, 11:09 PM	And Ed Greenwood, the creator of the Realms, made the comment about technology level. I imagine it would be in Faiths and Avatars somewhere, too, but I can't recall off the top of my head. I've gone through them and I yet don't see it. Everything either suggests, or directly states it can and does advance, and could become very advanced, especially when combined with existing magic. Whether or not the published Lantan ends up looking like this or not, Lantan is the "sleeping giant" on the Realms scene, with the potential to rise to become an alternative to magic, but easily kept down to the status of "oddity" if players and DMs don't want technology to play that large a role in their games. However, your first question has too many variables for me to do more than wildly guess (what about the advance of technology? The doings of the Shades or Thay or Larloch or other masters of powerful magic? Plagues? Tidal waves and volcanism and continental sinkings or risings? So let me just answer by saying what I'd do, if as DM I was setting up a far-future Realms campaign. I see the Silver Marches and Waterdeep as both growing in size, wealth, and population, despite the batterings of orc hordes. I see certain critters (dragons) as being far rarer, thanks to reactions to the flights of dragons that cause an "exterminate on sight" attitude in many humans. I see strong surface dwarf and elf realms on the mainland, and the collapse of Thay into small, warring holds. I see Sembia trying to swallow both Westgate and the Dales, and failing to swallow Cormyr, which now has a large wealthy merchant class and overcrowding. I see Impiltur and Thesk and Aglarond also expanding, with much local lawlessness and warfare . . . and everywhere, I see powerful mages exterminated, and those who do have magic keeping a lower profile (adviser to throne rather than on throne, local healer and sage rather than local tyrant). I see many of the Chosen gone mad and weepingly imploring Mystra to slay them -- and in a few cases, I see Azuth stepping in with newly-picked Chosen to oversee rituals in which a new Chosen slays a willing old Chosen in a manner that allows subsumption of the Silver Fire and some memories (transfer from old to new). I see the memories changing the new Chosen and driving a few of them mad (the work of Shar?). I see fewer gods, and all of them having less power and influence, as general wealth and technology increases, and "the common folk" make praying increasingly a "say and do this for good luck on the way home, and then say and do this to this other god before bed" matter-of-fact affair rather than obeying priests to the death. I see lots of new, small realms, and warfar between them. And I'm not sure I'd want to see much more of a Realms like that, or play in them. Yet as I said at the outset, this is merely one possibility among literally thousands. Helmed horrors are as close as I got to robots in the Realms (the 3rd Edition origins for them have been twisted somewhat, obscuring this), although Paul Jacquays did put Radoc and other 'aliens with advanced technology' into the Realms when he did FR5 The Savage Frontier (atop the Starmounts in the center of The High Forest). And Netheril, various elves (see Drow of the Underdark), and several elder/fallen lands achieved robotic technology good enough to fashion deft, complex functional replacement metal limbs (warriors could even get latch-on blades, axe-blades, picks, and the like to swap for their hands). For the most part, I'm uncomfortable with the 'flavour' that such technology brings to play, but as long as it's kept rare and therefore awe-inspiring, it has worked as a 'spice' for play. Except that if you're taking about modern tech (or any type of derivative for that matter) that would run on electronic components or use electricity for power... it simply doesn't work in the Realms. We know this from the 1e and 2e FRCS box sets. To put it simply, the physics of Toril/Realmspace won't allow such aspects to function. Does that exclude alternatives to achieve a given effect that don't rely upon electronic engineering or electrical engineering? Given the above examples from Ed, it would appear sufficiently advanced alternatives can and have existed for many of the technologies that for Earth would require electronics/electricity. Or what of things that don't use electricity, but produce it as a byproduct such as friction, or a chemical reaction, or simple natural lightning strikes? There's numerous ways to explain, for example, how a Lantanese artificer can produce the electric jolt, shocking grasp, or lightning bolt effects, without going against previously mentioned restrictions. I think Myssa Rei stated best "Modern tech as we know it doesn't work in Faerun"
GothicDan 08-15-06, 11:36 PM	Exactly. I see certain magically advanced cultures having things approaching 'modern technology.' To name some, the Shades, Halruaa, and the Elves.
Gladi 08-16-06, 03:59 AM	I think Myssa Rei stated best "Modern tech as we know it doesn't work in Faerun" The problem I have with this that it is presented as arbitrary fiat not on uderlying principles but on use of said principles. I know several people who have diesel car and run it on alcohol or frying oil ;). The advances won't of course be made for advances, but by desire to understand world around oneself- thus forefront of science can be not only in Lantan but amongst the Emerald Enclave and other druidic societies... And steam powered trashing machines should be cheaper than animated grain flail, new nitrates based fertilizers cheaper than having druid or priest with plant sphere on hand. Though I cannot see cot-husbandry as that is as that uses to objectify animals and thus increase "production". Oh on high fantasy- Feist has book about "adventures" of a mercantile. Good read, too bad it is part of not so entertaining series. GothicDan- well I do like Darksword.
Karsus the Mad 08-16-06, 09:50 PM	The problem I have with this that it is presented as arbitrary fiat not on uderlying principles but on use of said principles. I know several people who have diesel car and run it on alcohol or frying oil ;). The advances won't of course be made for advances, but by desire to understand world around oneself- thus forefront of science can be not only in Lantan but amongst the Emerald Enclave and other druidic societies... And steam powered trashing machines should be cheaper than animated grain flail, new nitrates based fertilizers cheaper than having druid or priest with plant sphere on hand. Though I cannot see cot-husbandry as that is as that uses to objectify animals and thus increase "production". Oh on high fantasy- Feist has book about "adventures" of a mercantile. Good read, too bad it is part of not so entertaining series. GothicDan- well I do like Darksword. Um...it might be the fever I have (bloody sinus infection) or the 12 hour day of work I just put in, but I don't understand your point in relation to the qoute of mine you're responding to. If you explain I'd much appreciate :tiphat:
Gladi 08-17-06, 04:02 AM	Um...it might be the fever I have (bloody sinus infection) or the 12 hour day of work I just put in, but I don't understand your point in relation to the qoute of mine you're responding to. If you explain I'd much appreciate :tiphat: "Modern Technology does not work!" - You and several other people "Modern technology uses basic physic rules!" - me Take gunpowder- it does not burn! So now we have charcoal substance that does not burn. "Okay so it burns, but it does not explode!" Explosion is not what gunpowder does. It is what gases there do- and you wreak havoc on all atmosphere, for example, if you take this property away. Steam and combustion engines are based on very same principle. Computers can be made with clockwork- but that is part where I see total domination of magic.
GothicDan 08-17-06, 04:07 AM	"Modern Technology does not work!" - You and several other people Including the campaign setting material. "Modern technology uses basic physic rules!" - me Correct. And since the FR's Physics is not the same as Earth's Physics, then there is every reason to believe that Modern Tech. as we know it would not exist. As a Physicist (pretty close to having a degree in it, at least), I have no trouble accepting this fact, given as it's a FANTASY world. Atomic and subatomic particles may not even exist as we know it, with positive and negative charges, with spins, with quarks of weird, charmed, up or down characteristics, etc. Physics also tells us that you shouldn't be able to wiggle your fingers and make a fireball or summon a pit fiend; physics tells us that silverfire doesn't exist and the deities don't exist. So obviously there's something mighty different going on between FR and Earth.
Gladi 08-17-06, 05:07 AM	Including the campaign setting material. So? Correct. And since the FR's Physics is not the same as Earth's Physics, then there is every reason to believe that Modern Tech. as we know it would not exist. As a Physicist (pretty close to having a degree in it, at least), I have no trouble accepting this fact, given as it's a FANTASY world. Atomic and subatomic particles may not even exist as we know it, with positive and negative charges, with spins, with quarks of weird, charmed, up or down characteristics, etc. Physics also tells us that you shouldn't be able to wiggle your fingers and make a fireball or summon a pit fiend; physics tells us that silverfire doesn't exist and the deities don't exist. So obviously there's something mighty different going on between FR and Earth. I spoke not of different physics- I said that it behaves in certain respects same. Untill those ascpects could be used to make "advanced" tech. Nothing I read has lead me to believe that in Realms gas when heated does not expand, or when contracted does not heat up. It still rains there in similar manner as Real World... It is incosnistent ruleset!
GothicDan 08-17-06, 05:12 AM	... Do you really expect a Realms book to detail the physics of an entire Crystal Sphere? I dare you to make a whole world and do that. Go ahead.
Gladi 08-17-06, 05:14 AM	... Do you really expect a Realms book to detail the physics of an entire Crystal Sphere? I dare you to make a whole world and do that. Go ahead. I have it stuffed somewhere :(. (IE I did it once but it was extremely silly and I put it somewhere where I can be sure not to happen upon it :)) I don't need entire "Realms Physics" Textbook, but how about consistency in portrayal?
GothicDan 08-17-06, 05:23 AM	Where have we inconsistently seen electricity used in the Realms?
Gladi 08-17-06, 05:30 AM	Where have we inconsistently seen electricity used in the Realms? Where have I spoken about electricity? (I have to go get airplane tickets so read you in a hour, ciao)
GothicDan 08-17-06, 05:31 AM	Heh. Do you know exactly what it says about technology in Faerun? There are CERTAIN things that do not work - such as electricity as we know it. Not ALL technology is banned, universally.
Gladi 08-17-06, 06:41 AM	Heh. Do you know exactly what it says about technology in Faerun? There are CERTAIN things that do not work - such as electricity as we know it. Not ALL technology is banned, universally. No, I do not have books with me. It bans gunpowder I think does it not? And I think that many people would argue to death over inclusion of diesel engines.
GothicDan 08-17-06, 06:43 AM	Gond banned gunpowder, I believe. ... And no, there's no science or physics when it comes to a deity's whims.
Gladi 08-17-06, 07:18 AM	Gond banned gunpowder, I believe. ... And no, there's no science or physics when it comes to a deity's whims. Ah, talk about deus ex machina, eh? :) Could he also ban waterwheels or steel-making?
BadCatMan 08-17-06, 10:05 AM	I thought smokepowder was gunpowder? I'm imagining a universe where there's no quantum waves, no string theory, just threads of the Weave running through everything. Every particle and force would be a vibration on the strings of the Weave. There'd be no quantum mechanics powering everything, just magic. It's a lovely image.
Old Sage 08-17-06, 10:22 AM	I thought smokepowder was gunpowder?No. Smokepowder isn't the same as gunpowder. One is magical and the other isn't. Plus, gunpowder doesn't work in FR as the 1e and 2e material tells us.
BrennonGoldeye 08-17-06, 10:48 AM	I thought smokepowder was gunpowder? I'm imagining a universe where there's no quantum waves, no string theory, just threads of the Weave running through everything. Every particle and force would be a vibration on the strings of the Weave. There'd be no quantum mechanics powering everything, just magic. It's a lovely image. Hmm, sounds like the Weave replacing Physics. Darn, I said Physics again...
Karsus the Mad 08-17-06, 11:01 AM	"Modern Technology does not work!" - You and several other people Not me. If you go back up and read precisely what I said, I think alternatives can exist in which the Realms can achieve the same effect. Clockwork robotics, non-magical portals powered by steam engines, etc. Obviously clockwork engineering and steamworks have far greater applications than they do here. And have you seen what the Lantanese artificer can craft? His technology puts much of our "modern" tech to shame. "Modern technology uses basic physic rules!" - me I agree with this. It's also where I find the "no electricity or electronic tech" to be doubly redundant. The setting itself dictates a low technology setting, so there's no reason to arbitrarily (and that's precisely what it sounds like) ban a specific technology without noting the consequences, since if the physics don't allow electricity tech, then there shouldn't be any lightning storms, no static, or any other naturally occuring electric effect. Second reason why it's redundant is because if someone did want to include electric technology, they'd do so regardless of an arbitrary passage in a book. IMO it seems to be an arbitrary dictate without any purpose but to fill space. Take gunpowder- it does not burn! So now we have charcoal substance that does not burn. "Okay so it burns, but it does not explode!" Explosion is not what gunpowder does. It is what gases there do- and you wreak havoc on all atmosphere, for example, if you take this property away. This was the work of Gond, not natural law. Steam and combustion engines are based on very same principle. Computers can be made with clockwork- but that is part where I see total domination of magic. Actually, there was a device invented thousands of years ago. Heron(or was it Archimedes?) crafted a self powered theatrical play. The programming was nothing but a wooden rod with smaller pegs poking out every now and then, with a rope wrapped around it. Depending on which way the rope was wrapped around each peg changed the direction the rod spun, creating the first binary programming.
BrennonGoldeye 08-17-06, 12:16 PM	Karsus the Mad gives an excellent example of Tech without Elec. I have had to come to a compromise with several different groups as to Gond's Ban(My players call it Oghma's ban). It's not a ban upon physics. It's a ban on Outside Knowledge of Physics. Players must set aside knowledge they learned outside the game except that represented by thier skills and feats. One set of Epic players actually broke that ban, through legitimate and very balsy means and forced Mystra(being the only Diety present throughout Aber-Toril) to slightly alter thermodynamics to stop them. I hated to do it, but having Sulfer as a newly magical metal is kinda neat. Especially when they ignited what was left of Moander. Elemental Methane with attitude anyone? :yuck: