Post/Author/DateTime	Post
msatran 01-11-08, 04:36 AM	You know, I really thought I could safely run a campaign here, but apparently not. Brian, are you sure about some of this stuff? You know I love your work. I really do, but this angry Fey Queen Ordalf business? How do you integrate this into an existing game without having things oh so politely explode in the DM's face? I could use a little help here. According to my timeline, this colossal Red Dragon will be attacking Calidyrr in just a couple of WEEKS! My PC's in this game are 7th-9th level. So they should survive this conflagration why?
Khaelieth 01-11-08, 07:04 AM	Offer a few prayers to Tymora (Or Beshaba) and take cover.
Aldareth 01-11-08, 08:21 AM	You know, I really thought I could safely run a campaign here, but apparently not. Brian, are you sure about some of this stuff? You know I love your work. I really do, but this angry Fey Queen Ordalf business? How do you integrate this into an existing game without having things oh so politely explode in the DM's face? I could use a little help here. According to my timeline, this colossal Red Dragon will be attacking Calidyrr in just a couple of WEEKS! My PC's in this game are 7th-9th level. So they should survive this conflagration why? your Pcs are investigating on a other island, rumors about people that disapear, strange fey lights over the lake of myrloch , small groups of wolves that head in one direction ( the pack forms again?), the dwarfs call for help duergar and drow activities are increasing .... let the dragon attack in that time, let the PCs find callidyr near destroyed, give them hints that a cell of Talos worshippers is responsible and let them investigate the matter ... so many possibilities if teh Pcs are in Town , send them to rescue civilians, fight talos worshippers that going rampage , tell them clearly that the dragon is beyond their power, if they dont listen , let the dragon take one of them away ( that happend to my lvl 15 wizzard in shackled city...dragon grappled me and flyed away...)
Rauric 01-11-08, 08:38 AM	I used the Rage as a backdrop in my game since my pcs were the exact same levels as yours. Everytime they saw a dragon, or dragons they hid. I would usually pair up the dragons or group them as a pack of 5. I did a good job of inspiring fear and dread whenever they even thought of dragons. They would try and save people if they could but they had another quest that was more important than them dealing with dragons. They kept saying it was the Chosen's job to handle this mess. ;) I was happy to see that info because I wanted to run a half-elf from the Moonshaes in 4E. I was also thinking about sending my pcs there at one point. I am glad for the fey love and like the potential conflict that can happen there. It has given me a good amount of campaign ideas already. The Church of Talos was an enemy to the group in my 1st chapter so it might work out real well. My one pc is a cleric of Shaundukul so he is always trying to work out new trade routes and make new contacts.
Fabius Maximus 01-11-08, 08:55 AM	Or you could just ignore it. :rolleyes:
Iakhovas 01-11-08, 09:30 AM	The Forgotten Realms team wanted to touch upon the Moonshaes because it hasn't received any detail for nearly two decades. This is a double edged sword, however. As in msatran's case, this new lore presents problems for his existing campaign. For others, this lore may prompt them to play in a region they have never before explored. This situation unfortunately happens anytime new regions are detailed or previous locales updated. As is always the case, I encourage DMs to incorporate only as much of the new lore into their campaigns as is appropriate. Hoondarrh's attack on Callidyrr was first mentioned in Dragons of Faerūn p.43. The leShay Queen Ordalf business is entirely my own creation.
Rauric 01-11-08, 09:34 AM	I liked it. So is the leShay the 3E version or 4E version? The 3e version is like a CR 28 I think. I am glad the fey are getting more coverage in 4e. Hopefully the Realms will do more with them like you guys did with the article.
Kenzuki 01-11-08, 09:41 AM	An ancient city rises from the depths of the Ocean carrying a mad fey queen.....I like it!
18DELTA 01-11-08, 10:45 AM	The Forgotten Realms team wanted to touch upon the Moonshaes because it hasn't received any detail for nearly two decades. This is a double edged sword, however. As in msatran's case, this new lore presents problems for his existing campaign. For others, this lore may prompt them to play in a region they have never before explored. This situation unfortunately happens anytime new regions are detailed or previous locales updated. As is always the case, I encourage DMs to incorporate only as much of the new lore into their campaigns as is appropriate. -I for one just love the article!!!:cool: Hoondarrh's attack on Callidyrr was first mentioned in Dragons of Faerūn p.43. -:teach: The leShay Queen Ordalf business is entirely my own creation. -Now this one I just love!!!:love: :inlove: :w00t: :clap: :plotting: :lightbulb :evillaugh :dancin: :angelhide :cheer: :king: :bow: An ancient city rises from the depths of the Ocean carrying a mad fey queen.....I like it! -Covered In Awesome sauce!!! LORD DELTA:fight!:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-11-08, 12:54 PM	You know, I really thought I could safely run a campaign here, but apparently not. Brian, are you sure about some of this stuff? You know I love your work. I really do, but this angry Fey Queen Ordalf business? How do you integrate this into an existing game without having things oh so politely explode in the DM's face? I could use a little help here. According to my timeline, this colossal Red Dragon will be attacking Calidyrr in just a couple of WEEKS! My PC's in this game are 7th-9th level. So they should survive this conflagration why? You don't have to use this new plotline.:) I wouldn't use it in my personal Realms.
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 12:58 PM	I haven't had the chance to peruse it yet, but it is obviously an attempt to bring some of the 4e lore into the 3e realms, which I give Brian a great big pat on the back for doing. Some of us plan to use the 4e stuff in the 3e world - something I feel the vast majority of Realms fans will eventually do. This article is giving something that the designers alluded we would NOT have right after Gencon - a bridge between 3e and 4e. I thank Brian for taking the time to write such an article, bringing the disparate concepts together, and also WotC, who have gone back on their own statements and are are now a least trying to 'mollify' us fans with 3e Realms/4e Rules articles. Thank You, one and all. There is no such thing as 'useless lore', you can choose to use what you want in your Realms, and throw out the rest. Each of our own campaigns is an alternate Reality - not the true Realms owned by WotC, and we need to remember that. ;)
msatran 01-11-08, 01:06 PM	Actually, I overreacted to the dragon. I can even work in the death of King Keane. I had this epiphany about Moonshae, which is this. THE RED WIZARDS ARE NOT RETARDS! :) Thought process. Our renegades went there and tried to take over the islands. They stormed the place, manipulated everything with priests of other deities, and now they have to live with the consequences. Wait. We're intelligent, have spies everywhere, and can cast all kinds of powerful magics. Plot synopsis of game: Oriontes of Thay, a Red Wizard of power and skill, has realized that when the Black Wizards ran off and did all these things in the Moonshaes, that they took magic items, resources, and property with them. In order to protect the nation of Thay in the new, smaller, portal laden economic marketplace, he wishes to retrieve their hidden goods, and possibly even their bodies. How to achieve this goal? Well, he can manipulate the locals, of course. He brought several priests of Kossuth with him, who pretended to worship Malar, Bane, and Myrkul, and urged them to spread word into those religions. A priest calling himself Alarach the Damned (Whose real name they never found out) began undead invasions in the North, while Oriontes and his assistants opened gates to attack the army assembled for the invasion. It was very brutal. There were orcs and undead everywhere. But if the new guys attacking look like the old guys who attacked all those years ago, you won't be looking for the Red Wizards. :) The PC's have finally realized that the Red Wizards are behind it because they got to talk to the people of Synnoria about a month or so ago game time, but now it looks like they may be burned out. :) Unfortunately, it looks like Oriontes next plan will be Firbolgs and Verbeegs conquering Oman's Isle.. What month does this happen in, Brian? (Hey, once they deal with this, then they can go looking for Oriontes. (Joy)) The problem is Fey Queen Ordalf. I can't even contemplate Fey Queen Ordalf, because Ordalf means Elvish Spear in German.:) Are they GOOD? Are they EVIL? (Yes, Brian, you can give a one-word answer!) What would Synnoria's political reaction to this state be?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-11-08, 01:06 PM	Each of our own campaigns is an alternate Reality - not the true Realms owned by WotC, and we need to remember that. ;) You could just as easily say that the Realms in your head is "the true Realms" and the one used by WotC is "just an alternate Reality".
18DELTA 01-11-08, 01:10 PM	I haven't had the chance to peruse it yet, but it is obviously an attempt to bring some of the 4e lore into the 3e realms, which I give Brian a great big pat on the back for doing. Some of us plan to use the 4e stuff in the 3e world - something I feel the vast majority of Realms fans will eventually do. This article is giving something that the designers alluded we would NOT have right after Gencon - a bridge between 3e and 4e. I thank Brian for taking the time to write such an article, bringing the disparate concepts together, and also WotC, who have gone back on their own statements and are are now a least trying to 'mollify' us fans with 3e Realms/4e Rules articles. Thank You, one and all. There is no such thing as 'useless lore', you can choose to use what you want in your Realms, and throw out the rest. Each of our own campaigns is an alternate Reality - not the true Realms owned by WotC, and we need to remember that. ;) -You truly are a wise man. So when are you going to join the Hands of Karsus as the Kartographer of Karsus?:rofl::P: LORD DELTA:fight!:
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 01:11 PM	You see, I can't be a follower of Karsus - I'm much happier being his friend. :) And besides, I'm not sure if the Karsii on these boards are truly aspects of the REAL Karsus, or just some other being or god pretending to be for some nefarious purpose. I have my suspicians, you see, because the Real Karsus disliked Elves, and their 'holier-then-though' attitudes toward magic. The Karsii on the boards - most especially Lord Karsus - LIKE Elves, and even appear to venerate them to a certain degree (Realms of the Elves?). I think this LK is really just a Gold Elf Highmage, possibly a member of the Eldreth Veluuthra, who is impersonating Karsus to further his own goals. :eek: However, I will continue to be his friend, and sometimes ally, because it helps me achieve my own clandestine goals - I'm really the ONLY Dark-Elven member of Olin Gisiae! I merely disguise myself as an enlightened Ondonti Mage-priest of Mystra as part of me 'cover'. ;) You could just as easily say that the Realms in your heads is "the true Realms" and the one used by WotC is "just an alternate Reality". That reminds me of the JLA/Avengers cross-over, where they briefly argued over who was Earth-1 and who was Earth-2. :rolleyes: However you want to look at it, the second we sit down and sart playing, our FR diverges from the canon reality.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-11-08, 01:16 PM	The problem is Fey Queen Ordalf. I can't even contemplate Fey Queen Ordalf, because Ordalf means Elvish Spear in German.:) Are they GOOD? Are they EVIL? (Yes, Brian, you can give a one-word answer!) What would Synnoria's political reaction to this state be? I think that snippet was meant to spark these questions. Personally, this Ordalf seems rather imperialistic to me. Who likes a foreign (or in this case, alien!) ruler coming from nowhere and declaring hegemony over them? For the record, I don't care for the name "Ordalf" either.
Kenzuki 01-11-08, 01:33 PM	I think that snippet was meant to spark these questions. Personally, this Ordalf seems rather imperialistic to me. Who likes a foreign (or in this case, alien!) ruler coming from nowhere and declaring hegemony over them? For the record, I don't care for the name "Ordalf" either. There are alot of names in the Realms I think are stupid too. Elminster being one of them. *shrugs*
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 01:50 PM	Ordalf sounds masculine to me, and much too similar to 'Gandalf'. However, there has been a 'push' by newer designers to incorporate some Germanic language elements into the Realms (GK's 'Ur-hortha?), which makes sense with 4e's more 'folklore-centric' cosmology. Germanic folklore ties iinto both Norse and Celtic ones, and is probably a lot of what the Feywild and 4e Faerie will be based on, so I don't mind seeing some of this element in regards to the Fey. We've had both the Wild Hunt and Baba Yaga in the Realms, so I like a lot of this more traditional 'high-fantasy' feel they are shooting for.
Kenzuki 01-11-08, 02:49 PM	I can't wait for the RSE that happens when a slumbering beast known as Gojira awakens off the coast of Kozakura and leaves a trail of destruction in its wake.:D
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 03:52 PM	You are aware that he already exists, right? :confused: There is an entire island of Gargantua living in the Celestial Sea, and the Reptilain Version is easily a Godzilla analog. I believe they act as a food source for the even larger Krakentua, which were featured recently in some new Realms-lore by Brian James in the GHotR. You could even say the Giant-turtle islands (Zaratan) from Zakhara are actually Gammaroids (from Spelljammer) that have 'settled down', and the Gammaroids are an obvious copy of Gamera, also of the kaiju genre fame. So in the realms, you can have a canon battle between Godzilla and Gamera, even though such isn't possible in the RW (because opposing directors own the rights). ;) BTW, don't all of the Krakentua look like Cthulhu wannabes? I think they might be making a 4e come-back in a BIG way (pun intended). :P
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 04:33 PM	Sorry for the DP, buuuut... Finally reading through this, and I'm both floored and HONORED, Brian. :bow: For some reason, a scene from the movie Wayne's World comes to mind... "We're not Worthy..." :embarrass
msatran 01-11-08, 05:08 PM	Well, the really question is... Would you rather have Synnoria? Or Dalf? :) I'd rather fight Dalf than Synnoria. :) Just kidding. Sorry.
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 05:22 PM	No mention of those two Elven Brats - Amlaruil's twins - who disappeared in Synorria? :confused:
Iakhovas 01-11-08, 05:50 PM	Ordalf sounds masculine to me, and much too similar to 'Gandalf'. Ordalf is actually a female only german name. Finally reading through this, and I'm both floored and HONORED, Brian. :bow: You must have found the timeline entry that references your article in Candlekeep Compendium IX! :king: No mention of those two Elven Brats - Amlaruil's twins - who disappeared in Synorria? :confused: I don't believe I'm familiar with that reference Mark.
Iakhovas 01-11-08, 05:54 PM	The leShay in this article were based on the 3E version. In 4E they will be known as Noble Eladrin. I liked it. So is the leShay the 3E version or 4E version? The 3e version is like a CR 28 I think. I am glad the fey are getting more coverage in 4e. Hopefully the Realms will do more with them like you guys did with the article.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-11-08, 06:29 PM	OK, having read through the article and seen the artwork (which is lovely), I'm not sure what to make of Ordalf's appearance, as the final picture seems to show her (I think?) meeting peacefully with the other leaders of the Moonshaes. I didn't see a reference to her being "mad", or "angry", but reappearing out of nowhere and declaring yourself "High Lady of the lands of Gwynneth" seems like a dodgy thing to do in an already established kingdom...
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 07:20 PM	Ordalf is actually a female only german name.Ahhh... Okay. It sounded masculine, but then again, so does most anything in German. ;) You must have found the timeline entry that references your article in Candlekeep Compendium IX! :king:Two actually, the name of the islands (NOW CANON! :cloud9:), and the name of the Princess that was supposed to marry the Illuskan Prince, tying the Realms together. I see you REALLY didn't care for the time-travel explanation, but the use of the name (Bridget) at least does me proud. :ayyyy!: I don't believe I'm familiar with that reference Mark.From an old, archived post here at WotC (I didn't feel like re-reading E:IoE to find the original entry). It appears to be a response by Elaine herself to someone named Adrian - Xharlion and Zhoron, twin sons. They are mirror images of each other and their father, the king. The rowdy, robust elven lads seemed destined for the warrior's life. The queen sent them to the Moonshaes for fosterage among the elves of Sonoria. One of them--it is not certain which one--was slain when the Ityak-Ortheel attacked the Moonshaes. It is not known if the other survived, or if so, what became of him. I could have sworn that both were MIA after the attack, but it appears one died whilst the other survived. No further lore has uncovered the fate of the lost son of Amlaruil, last seen in the Kingdom of Synoria. It would have been cool if you had 'hinted' as to what happened to him, that's all.
Scathlock 01-11-08, 07:57 PM	because Ordalf means Elvish Spear in German.:) Perhaps it means that in some northern germanic tongue like danish, norwegian, swedish, faroer etc. but not in german. At least not in modern high or middle high (medieval) german. In German you would call Queen Elvish Spear: Elfenspeer. Which would be nicer sounding imo(though calling a female character "Anything" Spear is not in any naming tradition I know of considering obvious symbolism), as old northern germanic names ending on -alf always are male names and sound imo weird when applied to fairy females . "Ordalf is actually a female only german name." Iakhovas, if this http://www.babynamesfamily.com/meaning_of_names/german_name_Ordalf.html or some similar site is the source of your inspiraion that this is a german name for females, well *cough* I'm afraid they are writing nonsense, as a) it's not a german word, much less a name. ( I'm VERY sure, being a german native speaker and studying german language at uni.) b) the name obviously comes from nordic mythology (which is not the same as german mythology, really, even considering Wagner and all) and describes some kind of male elf or dwarf (alf meaning both), c) such sites are not helpful when researching on languages. For a site dedicated to german-english translations and vice versa I would recommend www.leo.org which is a non-profit university site and in my experience often helpful. Of course, an author is free to call his/her characters whatever he or she likes, but in this case I'm afraid you really gave this queen the name of some obscure dwarf from the Edda. Which may not be a bad thing. Stuff like this happens all the time. For example, germans use (in german everyday language) an english sounding word for "cell phone" which is not "cell phone" but "handy". Sounds ridiculous and nonsensical for anyone with a real grasp of the english language, but comes in handy for us krauts, who couldn't spell "cell phone" in an intelligible manner if we tried (i'm exaggerating of course) and nowadays "handy" is an ordinary german word you'll find in any dictionary as the only german word for a mobile phone. :)
MarkusTay63 01-11-08, 08:26 PM	She took her father's name as her surname? Him being King Alfenspeer Ordalf, and her being formerly known as Princess Brianna. ;)
Iakhovas 01-11-08, 08:53 PM	Two actually, the name of the islands (NOW CANON! :cloud9Ah yes... Jannath's Tears. Great lore there Markus.
Lord Karsus 01-11-08, 08:55 PM	You see, I can't be a follower of Karsus - I'm much happier being his friend. :) And besides, I'm not sure if the Karsii on these boards are truly aspects of the REAL Karsus, or just some other being or god pretending to be for some nefarious purpose. I have my suspicians, you see, because the Real Karsus disliked Elves, and their 'holier-then-though' attitudes toward magic. The Karsii on the boards - most especially Lord Karsus - LIKE Elves, and even appear to venerate them to a certain degree (Realms of the Elves?). I think this LK is really just a Gold Elf Highmage, possibly a member of the Eldreth Veluuthra, who is impersonating Karsus to further his own goals. :eek: However, I will continue to be his friend, and sometimes ally, because it helps me achieve my own clandestine goals - -Ah, we've been through this before. When I was sundered into three aspects, my soul was sundered as well. In order not to pass on, each three parts of my souls possessed a mortal. KtM possessed a Netherese Arcanist, and thus, his aspect is a Netherese Arcanist. My aspect possessed an Sun Elven Selu'Taar, and thus, my aspect is an Elven High Mage. Our third aspect possessed a Beholder Mage, and thus, is a Beholder Mage.
Asgetrion 01-12-08, 12:59 PM	The Forgotten Realms team wanted to touch upon the Moonshaes because it hasn't received any detail for nearly two decades. This is a double edged sword, however. As in msatran's case, this new lore presents problems for his existing campaign. For others, this lore may prompt them to play in a region they have never before explored. This situation unfortunately happens anytime new regions are detailed or previous locales updated. As is always the case, I encourage DMs to incorporate only as much of the new lore into their campaigns as is appropriate. Hoondarrh's attack on Callidyrr was first mentioned in Dragons of Faerūn p.43. The leShay Queen Ordalf business is entirely my own creation. Brian, that was an *outstanding* article -- really inspiring stuff! :D :cool: If the "top brass" at WoTC had any "sense" of quality at all, they'd hire you as the FR Lead Designer. For us 3E fans, your article is a treasure trove of Realmslore -- a pity that in 4E most of the stuff is more or less "Ancient History" and legends about places that don't exist anymore (I noticed that your "unified Moonshaes" was wrecked in Rich's preview article in the first sentence about the Moonshaes :rolleyes:). Besides, as 4E seems to be more about "Let's get your PCs into Elminster's boots as soon as possible!" the "fluffy" stuff won't probably even matter in most groups.
Mr_Miscellany 01-12-08, 04:10 PM	So they should survive this conflagration why? Riddle Me This, Batman: What rule says you're required to always put in to your campaign whatever happens in the published setting?
Lord Karsus 01-12-08, 04:15 PM	Riddle Me This, Batman: What rule says you're required to always put in to your campaign whatever happens in the published setting? -It's his perogative to stay close to canon, just as it's yours not to.
Fabius Maximus 01-12-08, 05:50 PM	-It's his perogative to stay close to canon, just as it's yours not to. Yeah, but that's his problem, not WotC's. They just can't cater to one DM just because he doesn't like what they write.
Rauric 01-12-08, 07:18 PM	Yeah, but that's his problem, not WotC's. They just can't cater to one DM just because he doesn't like what they write. Exactly. If he wants to stick to canon that is no problem, just don't blame people if you don't like their lore. If you didn't stick to the canon religiously you wouldn't be complaining every 5 seconds. Plus some of the designers stuff is no good. I ignore their stuff and put in my own gaming ideas.
msatran 01-12-08, 07:24 PM	Well, we'll see what the Dragon does. I just need an exact date so that I can make them scream bloody murder when it does happen.
GothicDan 01-12-08, 08:32 PM	And it IS WotC's problem if tons of people never actually let them know their opinions about something, because one day, with one product, suddenly they might lose half of their customers who didn't like the previous product based on the igniting theme, and would never know why. This IS one of the main reasons why they maintain these forums, as well as (I'm guessing) to popularize and solidify a united fanbase, and cherry pick ideas.
XHereticX 01-12-08, 08:35 PM	And it IS WotC's problem if tons of people never actually let them know their opinions about something, because one day, with one product, suddenly they might lose half of their customers who didn't like the previous product based on the igniting theme, and would never know why. This IS one of the main reasons why they maintain these forums, as well as (I'm guessing) to popularize and solidify a united fanbase, and cherry pick ideas. If they actually pay attention to what the people post here, then why did they leave so many diehard Realms fans so dissatisfied?
msatran 01-12-08, 09:07 PM	Yeah. They cherry picked a whole bunch of fruit, and then cut the !@##$@!ing tree down.
Lord Karsus 01-13-08, 12:31 AM	Yeah, but that's his problem, not WotC's. They just can't cater to one DM just because he doesn't like what they write. -And this negates to complain about it...how?
Fabius Maximus 01-13-08, 10:02 AM	-And this negates to complain about it...how? It negates his complaints insofar that they are repetivly empty of valid points. He isn't willing to adapt, so he expects WotC to change something so that it fits his tastes? How arrogant is that?
MarkusTay63 01-13-08, 02:04 PM	You are absolutely correct, Fabius. The WotC designers are the last people on Earth I want to determine the direction of my game. ;) If I have to rely on them, or anyone else for that matter, for inspiration and direction, my players are doomed.
XHereticX 01-13-08, 05:12 PM	If I have to rely on them, or anyone else for that matter, for inspiration and direction, my players are doomed. I guess I'm already in Tartarus by now then:( JK, I just enjoy reading sourcebooks and consuming official lore, and it would really blow if it all became a pile of dung.
Mr_Miscellany 01-13-08, 08:19 PM	If they actually pay attention to what the people post here, then why did they leave so many diehard Realms fans so dissatisfied? Because the diehard people, with their self-created "I'm important because I like the Realms A LOT" titles, are no more or less important than the fans that just like to play the game to have fun? If anything, diehards are more apt to ruin threads, announce they'll spend less on the Realms and complain at the drop of the hat. Not exactly a big revenue source, if you know what I mean.
Mr_Miscellany 01-13-08, 08:23 PM	-And this negates to complain about it...how?Because -at its heart- the complaint is two things: A violation of common sense Invalid One can't knowingly slave their campaign to Canon, then expect to have any control over it. Let WotC run things for you, or take charge of your own game and shut up.
WizO_Mimir 01-13-08, 08:30 PM	Everyone needs to watch the language, and everyone needs to avoid making things personal. Post nice!
XHereticX 01-13-08, 08:32 PM	Because -at its heart- the complaint is two things: A violates common sense Invalid . Hmm, if a complaint violates common sense, then every single democracy on our planet would be consitered senseless.:P Hmm, invalid huh, LONG LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP, HEIL HITLER, CAESAR!!!!! What a mess our world would be without complaint.
selunatic2397 01-13-08, 09:46 PM	Because -at its heart- the complaint is two things: A violates common sense Invalid One can't knowingly slave their campaign to Canon, then expect to have any control over it. Let WotC run things for you, or take charge of your own game and shut up. My 28 year old 1ED campaign is so far from Canon that my only interest in the 2.0-3.5 supplements and material was in if it had any thing worth pillaging, and how much trouble it would be to rework it back to 1ED. 4ED seems to be so far changed from what my players and I picture when we think of the Realms that it won't be the Realms to us anymore. For my small but loyal 1ED group to tell me to not waste my time reworking 4ED was a great moment for me, because they like my stuff :D There might be something I can pillage from 4ED, but I do not hold out much hope. However Iakhovas came up with some great stuff for the Moonshaes that I will be able to use with only minor adaptions. :cheer: So...I will save my money and time for my own campaign and leave 4ED for it's fans. Have Fun! That is why we play this silly game anyway...isn't it?
Khaelieth 01-13-08, 10:04 PM	Hmm, if a complaint violates common sense, then every single democracy on our planet would be consitered senseless.:P Hmm, invalid huh, LONG LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP, HEIL HITLER, CAESAR!!!!! What a mess our world would be without complaint. Clerk: I think we should stop killing civilians, Lord Fzoul! Fzoul: ... *Kills clerk*
Lord Karsus 01-13-08, 11:19 PM	One can't knowingly slave their campaign to Canon, then expect to have any control over it. Let WotC run things for you, or take charge of your own game and shut up. -Sure you can. As DM, you determine where the PCs start, who they meet, what they do, where they go...What's the word for all of that? Oh, yeah! It's called 'The Campaign'.
Vulpes 01-14-08, 12:37 AM	Just want to echo everyone else in applauding the article, Brian. Really superb work. Did have one question about the artwork: in the last picture, who is the LeShay closest to the High Queen (or what I presume to be the High Queen)? I would think it would be Ordalf herself, but that figure is much more male. Is the female in the extreme right Ordalf and the male her chancellor or something, or are they just emissaries from her? Also, loved the mention of the Imaskari interaction with the LeShay. Did you just like that bit of Darkvision and decide to incorporate, or was it something WotC asked you to do? In terms of purely your own opinion, what do you think the nature of their relationship was? I will note that the creation of the Imaskarcana occurred about -3940 if memory serves, not long after those embassies. Again, great work. I hope WotC has you do more of this sort of thing in the future!
Rauric 01-14-08, 12:38 AM	Worrying about canon and letting it control your game can lead to some sad times at the game table though.
MarkusTay63 01-14-08, 01:00 AM	I only worry about 'canon' controlling me if its loaded, and a Dwarf is about to light it. "So why is the Rum gone?" http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies2/pirate.gif
Lord Karsus 01-14-08, 01:46 AM	Worrying about canon and letting it control your game can lead to some sad times at the game table though. -msa seems to have been balancing it all decently enough for the millions and millions of people he's seemed to DM for over the years. I better do some snooping, and find out if any of my own players and/or DM were once involved in any of his massive campaigns. You never know...
Fabius Maximus 01-14-08, 09:09 AM	Hmm, if a complaint violates common sense, then every single democracy on our planet would be consitered senseless.:P Hmm, invalid huh, LONG LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP, HEIL HITLER, CAESAR!!!!! What a mess our world would be without complaint. If you come up with valid reasons for a complaint, no problem. There is a brilliant quote from a german comedian, Dieter Nuhr: "Es ist so schrecklich, dass heute jeder Idiot zu allem eine Meinung hat. Ich glaube, dass ist damals falsch verstanden worden mit der Demokratie. Man darf in der Demokratie eine Meinung haben, man muss nicht. Es ist ganz wichtig, dass sich das mal rumspricht. Wenn man keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal Fresse halten." It somewhat looses in the translation, but basically it means: "It's terrible that today, every idiot has an opinion about everything. I believe people did understand democracy wrong. You may have an opinion, but you don't have to have one. It's very important that this gets around. If you haven't got a clue, shut your face." I don't want to call anyone an idiot here, but that's your basic guideline in every social situation where you want to make any kind of statement: Think before you speak (or write). And if you thought it through, think again. If it still sounds whiny, immature, stupid or downright idiotic, keep silent. Yes, that requires a little bit of effort. But if you don't put effort in your statements, what are they worth, anyway?
Rauric 01-14-08, 09:28 AM	Mr seems a little on edge about the whole complaining deal and I can understand why, though I think he should watch what he says at times. I feel that way about both "sides". Let's be nice ok? The 1400s is not a wasteland. Many core places are around and apparrently unscathed. Well, maybe a little scathed.;) Npcs are gone though. Some nations like Halruua and Thay may be in deep trouble, but the whole of Faerun is not a total wasteland. Deadlands: Wasted West is Thunderdome, not Forgotten Realms. Just saying...
Iakhovas 01-14-08, 09:45 AM	Just want to echo everyone else in applauding the article, Brian. Really superb work. Did have one question about the artwork: in the last picture, who is the LeShay closest to the High Queen (or what I presume to be the High Queen)? I would think it would be Ordalf herself, but that figure is much more male. Is the female in the extreme right Ordalf and the male her chancellor or something, or are they just emissaries from her? Also, loved the mention of the Imaskari interaction with the LeShay. Did you just like that bit of Darkvision and decide to incorporate, or was it something WotC asked you to do? In terms of purely your own opinion, what do you think the nature of their relationship was? I will note that the creation of the Imaskarcana occurred about -3940 if memory serves, not long after those embassies. Again, great work. I hope WotC has you do more of this sort of thing in the future!I answered your question in another thread Vulpes: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14826101&postcount=41
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-14-08, 03:07 PM	Let WotC run things for you, or take charge of your own game and shut up. I don't agree that they should "shut up". Quit complaining in every other thread about the fact that some people don't see things your way. It's annoying. You've made your point a hundred times already.
18DELTA 01-14-08, 03:20 PM	I don't agree that they should "shut up". Quit complaining in every other thread about the fact that some people don't see things your way. It's annoying. You've made your point a hundred times already. -It is kinda getting old. Sorry not everybody shares his opinion huh? LORD DELTA:pumpkin:
Scathlock 01-14-08, 03:35 PM	If you come up with valid reasons for a complaint, no problem. There is a brilliant quote from a german comedian, Dieter Nuhr: "Es ist so schrecklich, dass heute jeder Idiot zu allem eine Meinung hat. Ich glaube, dass ist damals falsch verstanden worden mit der Demokratie. Man darf in der Demokratie eine Meinung haben, man muss nicht. Es ist ganz wichtig, dass sich das mal rumspricht. Wenn man keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal Fresse halten." It somewhat looses in the translation, but basically it means: "It's terrible that today, every idiot has an opinion about everything. I believe people did understand democracy wrong. You may have an opinion, but you don't have to have one. It's very important that this gets around. If you haven't got a clue, shut your face." I don't want to call anyone an idiot here, but that's your basic guideline in every social situation where you want to make any kind of statement: Think before you speak (or write). And if you thought it through, think again. If it still sounds whiny, immature, stupid or downright idiotic, keep silent. Yes, that requires a little bit of effort. But if you don't put effort in your statements, what are they worth, anyway? :rolleyes: Oh, come on. Who decides what a "valid" reason for complaint is? You, me, Msatran, Rich Baker, Dieter Nuhr? Isn't the whole point and the very nature of democracy and freedom of speech and internet forums that we all listen to (or read) a lot of things we don't agree with, with the assumption that everyone's opinion is as valid as the next person's? It's the basis of what you would call in german "Zivilgesellschaft" (civil society). Old Dieter is sometimes really funny if you don't take him seriously and SHOULD be translated into english more often (which you did very well imo), but the statement above, in the context of this thread...well, take a minute to read that again and perhaps it will strike you as hilarious too. ;)
Fabius Maximus 01-15-08, 08:07 AM	The point is that many people just don't think before they state their opinion. I'm not saying that they aren't allowed to do that. In fact, I'll defend their rights to do it if necessary. But I'm saying that they should qualify their opinion before they speak up. Without that, it's just worthless and they don't do themselves or the discussion a favour. That's the essence of Nuhr's quote, and it is an unspoken fundamental principle of every discussion everywhere.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-15-08, 09:46 AM	No matter how many "valid reasons" one gives for their complaint, there is likely always going to be someone who will step in and claim that they have "no right to complain", or that their reasons aren't good enough. I don't think people should refrain from speaking their mind just because someone might decide they have no reason to complain.
Fabius Maximus 01-15-08, 02:16 PM	No matter how many "valid reasons" one gives for their complaint, there is likely always going to be someone who will step in and claim that they have "no right to complain", or that their reasons aren't good enough. I don't think people should refrain from speaking their mind just because someone might decide they have no reason to complain. You're right, they shouldn't. They should refrain from speaking their mind because they realize themselves that they have no reason to complain. That's why I said everyone should use their heads before making a statement.
MarkusTay63 01-15-08, 02:50 PM	So... how about them Moonshaes? :rolleyes: Did Brian do a great job, or what? :D http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Fomorian_NB.png http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Elf1.png Fomorians, FTW! :dancin: (Elf added for size comparison)
msatran 01-15-08, 04:25 PM	Yeah, a whole island full. This should be a challenge for my group in the Moonshaes. I don't expect the Formorians to survive, but then, they're fighting people who's regular means of assault is Glitterdust and lots of sun spells.
MarkusTay63 01-15-08, 05:03 PM	Firbolgs are pretty nifty too - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Firbolg.png http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Viking3.png Although I think the Moonshae ones are more 'corrupted' looking. This guy looks like one of the heroic ones from Hartsvale. Human Rauthym for size comparison. ;)
Lord Karsus 01-15-08, 05:51 PM	-I thought Formians were like Ant-People...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-15-08, 06:31 PM	They should refrain from speaking their mind because they realize themselves that they have no reason to complain. That's why I said everyone should use their heads before making a statement. You have no way of knowing that they aren't already keeping themselves in check like that. Unless you can read minds.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-15-08, 06:32 PM	-I thought Formians were like Ant-People... There are formians, and therea are fomorians.;)
MarkusTay63 01-15-08, 06:34 PM	No, no, no... Fomorians EAT Formians... but only when there are no people left to eat. :P
Lord Karsus 01-15-08, 06:44 PM	There are formians, and therea are fomorians.;) -Hmmm. I see. :embarrass
MarkusTay63 01-15-08, 06:46 PM	It was all in the series of articles - The Ecology of Creatures that begin with 'Fo'... I guess you missed the memo... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 01-15-08, 06:50 PM	-So it seems...
Fabius Maximus 01-16-08, 09:26 AM	You have no way of knowing that they aren't already keeping themselves in check like that. Unless you can read minds. I don't need to. It's enough to read or hear their statements.
Alediran 01-16-08, 10:25 AM	-It is kinda getting old. Sorry not everybody shares his opinion huh? I never share opinions coming from somebody who try to force them on other people.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-16-08, 01:44 PM	I don't need to. It's enough to read or hear their statements. Whatever.:rolleyes:
Mr_Miscellany 01-19-08, 01:40 PM	I don't need to. It's enough to read or hear their statements. I declare Fabius my internet hero. Seriously. He gets it. He gets it well. :salutes Fabius: Thank you sir. Thank you. :clap:
MarkusTay63 01-19-08, 03:27 PM	Now now... don't egg people on. ;)
Fabius Maximus 01-19-08, 07:45 PM	Don't worry. I'm old enough to not let that get to my head. ;) Besides, I'm not really sure if he is serious...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-19-08, 09:35 PM	I declare Fabius my internet hero. Well, then I must have said the right thing.;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-19-08, 09:39 PM	Don't worry. I'm old enough to not let that get to my head. ;) Besides, I'm not really sure if he is serious... It's about as prestigious as winning a Razzie.
XHereticX 01-19-08, 10:18 PM	You're right, they shouldn't. They should refrain from speaking their mind because they realize themselves that they have no reason to complain. That's why I said everyone should use their heads before making a statement. Excellente:) Even though I often like to argue just for the sake of discussion, I never really take it seriously. Now if a serious argument is conducted you must have a base and an objective for you argument lest you become a troll.
MarkusTay63 01-19-08, 10:21 PM	Does that mean we get to regenerate?
XHereticX 01-19-08, 10:29 PM	Does that mean we get to regenerate? Nah, after 30+ years most gamers would know to carry torches into combat when facing trolls;)
MarkusTay63 01-19-08, 11:09 PM	I got me a Bic lighter... :mage:
Mr_Miscellany 01-20-08, 01:00 AM	Don't worry. I'm old enough to not let that get to my head. ;) Besides, I'm not really sure if he is serious... Very serious. Serious as cancer, you might say. ;) :::::::::::::::::: Brian, I didn't know you were a Broncos fan. Thus, you can do no wrong. ;)