Mountain Adventuring [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mountain Adventuring [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
by_the_gods
10-18-04, 08:49 PM I am wondering how some of you Veteran DMs run Mountain adventures. I want to run an adventure that would involve the PCs to locate a young dragon's lair, with no real road to get to it. I know it would involve alot of climb checks. It's the mapping part I'm not to sure of. Drawing it up seems to be the toughest part. Thanks in advance.
Dielzen
10-18-04, 10:12 PM Do a search on the net for "topographical maps" or "geological surveys" and you're sure to turn up some decent maps somewhere.
ikki
10-19-04, 09:51 AM Try hiking in some real mountains... the kind that are filled with trees, 2 feet deep snow, and plenty of ravines (woops, we have to walk around this one, just another.. umm.. 8 miles) ;)

Soon enough you are wishing for a fly spell... wings of flying are really a godsend.
maynardjkeenan
10-19-04, 12:57 PM For some strange reason, I believe he won't bother walking around in the mountains for several hours to reasearch how it should be DMed in a RPG.....
by_the_gods
10-19-04, 04:33 PM I only have 2 weeks to get this together. I am giving my PCs a chance to go where they want, I am just giving them some Tavern stories to help them choose a direction. I want to be ready if this is a direction they choose.
primemover003
10-19-04, 06:42 PM Well first off don't map it. That'll make it easy!

There's nothing worse than leading PC's through tough dreary terrain. It's really boring during a session and the player's will hate it if you do it for too long. Assuming you have a Ranger, Barbarian, or Druid leading your group through the wilds give them a DC 15-20 Survival check to lead them without mishap... should be pretty easy.

You can make a real rough map to show the PC's if you want... but accurate maps in a fantasy setting don't exist. If you visualize your adventure outline like a spreadsheet it works great. Encounters are circles, transitions between encounters are lines...

The real trick is in the circles, the encounters. Plan ahead of time a number of easy to moderately challenging encounters to run on the group. Come up with fully fleshed out, interesting encoutners that use Mountainous creatures and the terrain... that's where the fun of being in the mountains comes into play! Use a fight on a narrow cliffside, or in a field of scree (a pile of large, sharp rock that is the remnants of a landslide). Use elevation to spice up the combat: balance checks, climb checks, falling damage, jump checks, bull rushes... the works!

Now these are not Random encounters! Good DM's shouldn't use random encounters. You craft your adventures and manipulate the pace to maximize the fun.
Kuje31
10-19-04, 06:49 PM Now these are not Random encounters! Good DM's shouldn't use random encounters. You craft your adventures and manipulate the pace to maximize the fun.

HAHAH. What a crock! Hells yes a GOOD DM can use random encounters and there is no reason NOT to! I use 3e's FR random encounter booklet that came in the FR DM screen and any others I can get my hands on, especially in the wilderness where random encounters make absolute sense. Or if in a town/city then I use my Waterdeep booklet for random encounters/street scenes.

Do I also plan some encounters? Yes but when you have a group of PC's who decide to head north when you planned for them to head south, then random encounters are perfect for that when they are in the wilderness.

Why is that ettin so close to town? they might ask. "Good question, why don't you find out?" is my reply.

Whatta mean there is a large band of trolls in places they normally not found? "Again, good question, maybe you should look into it!"

So random encounters CAN be used for plot hooks and it has NOTHING to do with being a "good" or "bad" DM.

Now to keep this on topic, have you checked in the DMG for terrain info? I believe there is mountain info in that DMG or you can buy the Wilderness Survival Guide, from 1e, at rpgnow.com for 5 bucks.
primemover003
10-19-04, 07:21 PM Now Kuje... We tend to agree on all matter's FR and PS and I know there's a warning about arguing with you in your sig, but I gotta...

Sure I've had a hook or seven thrown by my players. All DM's have. But a random encounter is really just a tool of the unprepared DM. IMX an ad-libbed adventure can be the "all time best and memorably great" or horribly, horribly, miserable... rarely inbetween.

b_t_g's PC's are headin up into the mountains looking for a dragon's lair. He's got carte blanche to drag them about anywhere he wants! I'm not gonna say random encounter tables aren't useful, just not great to use during the game. If you gotta rely on tables to occupy the goup you've really failed to give them anything fun to do. When the session is dull and boring, 7 times outta 10 it's the DM's blunder.
Kuje31
10-19-04, 07:29 PM Now Kuje... We tend to agree on all matter's FR and PS and I know there's a warning about arguing with you in your sig, but I gotta...

Sure I've had a hook or seven thrown by my players. All DM's have. But a random encounter is really just a tool of the unprepared DM. IMX an ad-libbed adventure can be the "all time best and memorably great" or horribly, horribly, miserable... rarely inbetween.

b_t_g's PC's are headin up into the mountains looking for a dragon's lair. He's got carte blanche to drag them about anywhere he wants! I'm not gonna say random encounter tables aren't useful, just not great to use during the game. If you gotta rely on tables to occupy the goup you've really failed to give them anything fun to do. When the session is dull and boring, 7 times outta 10 it's the DM's blunder.

Bull crocky. Again it has nothing to do with unprepared DM or a boring and dull DM. I've used random encounters since late 2e and my games are never boring or dull because I use random encounters or charts either.

Maybe you have had DM's who managed to make random encounters boring and dull but again it has nothing to do with being a "bad" or "good" DM.

No fun things to do? Okay, right. That's also crocky. You can use preplaned adventures and preplaned encounters as well as random encounters the same way and it has nothing to do with if a DM is "good" or "bad".

This is the same thing as saying, "DM's who use modules are bad DM's." Which is also a crock!

Now if the DM is just using random encounters as cannon fodder over and over, then I agree with you, why bother using them. But as I said above random encounters make for strange plot hooks.

But then I am also a DM that tends to fly by the seat of my pants when PC's are in the wilderness so my charts and random encounters are more useful, especially since WOTC has put out about 1,700 monters/beasts/critters in all of thier 3/3.5e books. This doesn't include the hundreds of other "monsters" in 3rd party books. And since I DM like that, my Toolbox book by AEG gets the most use because of its charts. :)
primemover003
10-19-04, 08:05 PM Rolling 74 and getting a Peryton does not an encounter make. Encounters are the meat & tater's precious of an adventure.

In my 10 years of DM'ing I've found that a monster is incomplete without a good battlefield. Is a hastily sketched cliffside OK, yeah. But having a thought out encounter area is better! An area where you can use the creature's strength's to challenge the party.

I use pre-made adventures (quite frequently in fact, but heavily modified to fit my campaigns) and have found that night's where I have to rely on random encoutners are night's I'm being a BAD DM. The best night's my group have are those where I have something interesting planned out.

Mayhaps I should say YMMV???
Kuje31
10-19-04, 08:14 PM Rolling 74 and getting a Peryton does not an encounter make. Encounters are the meat & tater's precious of an adventure.

In my 10 years of DM'ing I've found that a monster is incomplete without a good battlefield. Is a hastily sketched cliffside OK, yeah. But having a thought out encounter area is better! An area where you can use the creature's strength's to challenge the party.

I use pre-made adventures (quite frequently in fact, but heavily modified to fit my campaigns) and have found that night's where I have to rely on random encoutners are night's I'm being a BAD DM. The best night's my group have are those where I have something interesting planned out.

Mayhaps I should say YMMV???

Yes maybe you should have. :) Because in almost 10 years of DM I have used random encounters just fine when PC's are out in the wilderness. As I said, sometimes PC's go north when you wanted them to go south. But then I run games where PC's have free reign to head anywhere they want and I give them plot hooks that they may or may not follow up on. :) So at times I need charts and random encounters but again if the DM is just using the random encounters as cannon fodder over and over again then I agree with you and that is bad DMin.

And well I wasn't talking about specific adventures. I meant if the PC's, as I said, decide to head north instead of south then random encounters make beautiful adventure hooks.

As I said above for the trolls or why is a group of halflings around here when thier nearest land is miles away, etc. :)
by_the_gods
10-19-04, 09:06 PM Alright guys, no need to argue over this subject. I just wanted the input from other DMs about how to go about this.

I got this from your clash:

Don't make detailed maps
Make the Ranger use his Survival skills
Make PCs use skills such as Climb, Jump and Balance checks
Make planned encounters along with using the occasional random encounters to add some possible adventure hooks
Use books like AEG DMs Toolbox, the Wilderness Survival guide

I do have the DM Toolbox, it's a great publication.

Thank you both for your suggestions
Senach
10-20-04, 12:00 PM I usually take the middle road when handling random encounters -- I make a specialized random encounter table for the given area, based on the area's terrain, difficulty (EL), etc. Then for each encounter, I have a rough (and I mean rough, two, three lines at most) description.

So, really, my random encounters are more like a list of short, planned encounters. I do, however, rely on more detailed planned encounters, so I don't use on the random ones too much.

Anyway, this thread is very interesting, as I will be running a game in the mountains and icy wastes of Damara. I do worry about the 'roll to see if you get lost' problem/boredom, so the comment about using the mountain terrain to spice up the gameplay is very good. I already see the ledge and the barbarian with a penchant for Bull Rush...

And don't forget that some encounters can be purely natural, like avalanches, rockslides, sudden snowstorms, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
by_the_gods 10-18-04, 08:49 PM	I am wondering how some of you Veteran DMs run Mountain adventures. I want to run an adventure that would involve the PCs to locate a young dragon's lair, with no real road to get to it. I know it would involve alot of climb checks. It's the mapping part I'm not to sure of. Drawing it up seems to be the toughest part. Thanks in advance.
Dielzen 10-18-04, 10:12 PM	Do a search on the net for "topographical maps" or "geological surveys" and you're sure to turn up some decent maps somewhere.
ikki 10-19-04, 09:51 AM	Try hiking in some real mountains... the kind that are filled with trees, 2 feet deep snow, and plenty of ravines (woops, we have to walk around this one, just another.. umm.. 8 miles) ;) Soon enough you are wishing for a fly spell... wings of flying are really a godsend.
maynardjkeenan 10-19-04, 12:57 PM	For some strange reason, I believe he won't bother walking around in the mountains for several hours to reasearch how it should be DMed in a RPG.....
by_the_gods 10-19-04, 04:33 PM	I only have 2 weeks to get this together. I am giving my PCs a chance to go where they want, I am just giving them some Tavern stories to help them choose a direction. I want to be ready if this is a direction they choose.
primemover003 10-19-04, 06:42 PM	Well first off don't map it. That'll make it easy! There's nothing worse than leading PC's through tough dreary terrain. It's really boring during a session and the player's will hate it if you do it for too long. Assuming you have a Ranger, Barbarian, or Druid leading your group through the wilds give them a DC 15-20 Survival check to lead them without mishap... should be pretty easy. You can make a real rough map to show the PC's if you want... but accurate maps in a fantasy setting don't exist. If you visualize your adventure outline like a spreadsheet it works great. Encounters are circles, transitions between encounters are lines... The real trick is in the circles, the encounters. Plan ahead of time a number of easy to moderately challenging encounters to run on the group. Come up with fully fleshed out, interesting encoutners that use Mountainous creatures and the terrain... that's where the fun of being in the mountains comes into play! Use a fight on a narrow cliffside, or in a field of scree (a pile of large, sharp rock that is the remnants of a landslide). Use elevation to spice up the combat: balance checks, climb checks, falling damage, jump checks, bull rushes... the works! Now these are not Random encounters! Good DM's shouldn't use random encounters. You craft your adventures and manipulate the pace to maximize the fun.
Kuje31 10-19-04, 06:49 PM	Now these are not Random encounters! Good DM's shouldn't use random encounters. You craft your adventures and manipulate the pace to maximize the fun. HAHAH. What a crock! Hells yes a GOOD DM can use random encounters and there is no reason NOT to! I use 3e's FR random encounter booklet that came in the FR DM screen and any others I can get my hands on, especially in the wilderness where random encounters make absolute sense. Or if in a town/city then I use my Waterdeep booklet for random encounters/street scenes. Do I also plan some encounters? Yes but when you have a group of PC's who decide to head north when you planned for them to head south, then random encounters are perfect for that when they are in the wilderness. Why is that ettin so close to town? they might ask. "Good question, why don't you find out?" is my reply. Whatta mean there is a large band of trolls in places they normally not found? "Again, good question, maybe you should look into it!" So random encounters CAN be used for plot hooks and it has NOTHING to do with being a "good" or "bad" DM. Now to keep this on topic, have you checked in the DMG for terrain info? I believe there is mountain info in that DMG or you can buy the Wilderness Survival Guide, from 1e, at rpgnow.com for 5 bucks.
primemover003 10-19-04, 07:21 PM	Now Kuje... We tend to agree on all matter's FR and PS and I know there's a warning about arguing with you in your sig, but I gotta... Sure I've had a hook or seven thrown by my players. All DM's have. But a random encounter is really just a tool of the unprepared DM. IMX an ad-libbed adventure can be the "all time best and memorably great" or horribly, horribly, miserable... rarely inbetween. b_t_g's PC's are headin up into the mountains looking for a dragon's lair. He's got carte blanche to drag them about anywhere he wants! I'm not gonna say random encounter tables aren't useful, just not great to use during the game. If you gotta rely on tables to occupy the goup you've really failed to give them anything fun to do. When the session is dull and boring, 7 times outta 10 it's the DM's blunder.
Kuje31 10-19-04, 07:29 PM	Now Kuje... We tend to agree on all matter's FR and PS and I know there's a warning about arguing with you in your sig, but I gotta... Sure I've had a hook or seven thrown by my players. All DM's have. But a random encounter is really just a tool of the unprepared DM. IMX an ad-libbed adventure can be the "all time best and memorably great" or horribly, horribly, miserable... rarely inbetween. b_t_g's PC's are headin up into the mountains looking for a dragon's lair. He's got carte blanche to drag them about anywhere he wants! I'm not gonna say random encounter tables aren't useful, just not great to use during the game. If you gotta rely on tables to occupy the goup you've really failed to give them anything fun to do. When the session is dull and boring, 7 times outta 10 it's the DM's blunder. Bull crocky. Again it has nothing to do with unprepared DM or a boring and dull DM. I've used random encounters since late 2e and my games are never boring or dull because I use random encounters or charts either. Maybe you have had DM's who managed to make random encounters boring and dull but again it has nothing to do with being a "bad" or "good" DM. No fun things to do? Okay, right. That's also crocky. You can use preplaned adventures and preplaned encounters as well as random encounters the same way and it has nothing to do with if a DM is "good" or "bad". This is the same thing as saying, "DM's who use modules are bad DM's." Which is also a crock! Now if the DM is just using random encounters as cannon fodder over and over, then I agree with you, why bother using them. But as I said above random encounters make for strange plot hooks. But then I am also a DM that tends to fly by the seat of my pants when PC's are in the wilderness so my charts and random encounters are more useful, especially since WOTC has put out about 1,700 monters/beasts/critters in all of thier 3/3.5e books. This doesn't include the hundreds of other "monsters" in 3rd party books. And since I DM like that, my Toolbox book by AEG gets the most use because of its charts. :)
primemover003 10-19-04, 08:05 PM	Rolling 74 and getting a Peryton does not an encounter make. Encounters are the meat & tater's precious of an adventure. In my 10 years of DM'ing I've found that a monster is incomplete without a good battlefield. Is a hastily sketched cliffside OK, yeah. But having a thought out encounter area is better! An area where you can use the creature's strength's to challenge the party. I use pre-made adventures (quite frequently in fact, but heavily modified to fit my campaigns) and have found that night's where I have to rely on random encoutners are night's I'm being a BAD DM. The best night's my group have are those where I have something interesting planned out. Mayhaps I should say YMMV???
Kuje31 10-19-04, 08:14 PM	Rolling 74 and getting a Peryton does not an encounter make. Encounters are the meat & tater's precious of an adventure. In my 10 years of DM'ing I've found that a monster is incomplete without a good battlefield. Is a hastily sketched cliffside OK, yeah. But having a thought out encounter area is better! An area where you can use the creature's strength's to challenge the party. I use pre-made adventures (quite frequently in fact, but heavily modified to fit my campaigns) and have found that night's where I have to rely on random encoutners are night's I'm being a BAD DM. The best night's my group have are those where I have something interesting planned out. Mayhaps I should say YMMV??? Yes maybe you should have. :) Because in almost 10 years of DM I have used random encounters just fine when PC's are out in the wilderness. As I said, sometimes PC's go north when you wanted them to go south. But then I run games where PC's have free reign to head anywhere they want and I give them plot hooks that they may or may not follow up on. :) So at times I need charts and random encounters but again if the DM is just using the random encounters as cannon fodder over and over again then I agree with you and that is bad DMin. And well I wasn't talking about specific adventures. I meant if the PC's, as I said, decide to head north instead of south then random encounters make beautiful adventure hooks. As I said above for the trolls or why is a group of halflings around here when thier nearest land is miles away, etc. :)
by_the_gods 10-19-04, 09:06 PM	Alright guys, no need to argue over this subject. I just wanted the input from other DMs about how to go about this. I got this from your clash: Don't make detailed maps Make the Ranger use his Survival skills Make PCs use skills such as Climb, Jump and Balance checks Make planned encounters along with using the occasional random encounters to add some possible adventure hooks Use books like AEG DMs Toolbox, the Wilderness Survival guide I do have the DM Toolbox, it's a great publication. Thank you both for your suggestions
Senach 10-20-04, 12:00 PM	I usually take the middle road when handling random encounters -- I make a specialized random encounter table for the given area, based on the area's terrain, difficulty (EL), etc. Then for each encounter, I have a rough (and I mean rough, two, three lines at most) description. So, really, my random encounters are more like a list of short, planned encounters. I do, however, rely on more detailed planned encounters, so I don't use on the random ones too much. Anyway, this thread is very interesting, as I will be running a game in the mountains and icy wastes of Damara. I do worry about the 'roll to see if you get lost' problem/boredom, so the comment about using the mountain terrain to spice up the gameplay is very good. I already see the ledge and the barbarian with a penchant for Bull Rush... And don't forget that some encounters can be purely natural, like avalanches, rockslides, sudden snowstorms, etc.