My Problem with change [Archive] - Wizards Community

My Problem with change [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gunnersmate
01-20-08, 08:30 PM I don't care if they turn the Realms upside down. My question is how much of the 100s of dollars of books am I still going to be able to use when the new comes out. How much different will the rules be. How much of the old Realms stuff will be useful.
like I said I don't care what changes. I just want to be able to use my old stuff in conjunction with the new.
Charles Phipps
01-20-08, 08:41 PM You can.

Just as long as it's all smashed together in your new Game world.
Gunnersmate
01-20-08, 09:29 PM yes, but it appears that not only have the gods and people changed but the face of the Realms as well. Doesnt that make the older books obsolete?
Charles Phipps
01-20-08, 09:36 PM If you want a strictly canon game, yes.

However, I'm running 4E "story wise" and my players unfamiliarity with the matter means that I can incorporate NPCs and material from 3rd Edition without any problem.

While they may be surprised if Mirt shows up, they have no reason to have problems with Scyulla taking over the Dales since she might well be immortal thanks to Fzoul's power.
Ryltar Swordsong
01-20-08, 10:57 PM The older books are only obsolete if you let them be obsolete. Nothing says youhave to go along with the changes. The WotC police :incog: won't come and break your legs for noncompliance. I promise.
Fingoldfin
01-20-08, 11:36 PM yes, but it appears that not only have the gods and people changed but the face of the Realms as well. Doesnt that make the older books obsolete?

They're obsolete if you try to stick to canon in 4e. After the time jump they all become useless unless you choose to ignore canon Realms. There's nothing to stop you from mixing stuff from both editions together.

If you like draconians you can say that the new draconian empire arrived in 1374 DR. If you don't like Netheril you can say they never took over Sembia. If you want to use NPCs and gods that WotC killed go ahead.

The only real question is; did you read about any changes in the 4e Realms that you like enough to justify buying the books and doing all the extra work to use the two editions together? For me the answer is an easy no way in hell, but you need to decide that yourself.
Old Sage
01-21-08, 12:24 AM The older Realmslore isn't obsolete so long as you still use it to run campaigns in the pre-Spellplague Realms. The older Realmslore isn't obsolete so long as you're still capable, as a DM, of making use of the previously published material to flesh out your own home Realms campaigns. The older Realmslore isn't obsolete so long as you're intrigued enough by the possibilities of 4e FR Realmslore to establish your own plots to connect the older lore with the newer lore.

The pre-4e Realmslore will remain just as viable as the post-Spellplague Realmslore. It is simply a question of how you will use it and when.
OleOneEye
01-21-08, 01:19 AM How much of the old Realms stuff will be useful.

With all due respect, how much your materials have you actually used in a campaign? I would never be able to even scratch the surface of all the materials available for free on the Wizards website, more or less if I had purchased the many 3E sourcebooks published.
gomeztoo
01-21-08, 02:00 AM I actually think that quite a lot of material will still be useful - even though most normal mortal NPCs are dead, all statblocks are useless, and some realms are gone.
100 years is nothing compare to the Realms' history, really. All the ruins are still there. Most cities still exist (though some changed). The history and background of races, monsters, and people is still valid.
That little tavern that was detailed in guide X may still be there if you wish to.
I got myself the Old Empires book and I can assure you it'll see use. I had a load of ideas from it.
As far as I know, teh Realms are not that different as being unrecognizable.
Lord Karsus
01-21-08, 03:36 AM -The...'usefulness' of previous lore really depends on what region you want to examine. Information on Unther, for example, isn't going to be very useful.
gomeztoo
01-21-08, 03:59 AM Untehrian ruins still exist in Tymanther. So info could very well be useful, even if the Untherians are now slavering undead trying to suck the marrow from your bones:
"OK guys, this ghoul here that is trying to chew my leg off is a former war captain in the army of Gilgeam, the mad god king of Unther, who was slain by Tiamat during the Godswar... now that I have satisfied your curiosity on the strange emblem on his armor.... GET HIM OFF ME!"
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-21-08, 06:50 PM yes, but it appears that not only have the gods and people changed but the face of the Realms as well. Doesnt that make the older books obsolete?

Lore doesn't become obsolete. Besides, no one is forcing you to stop using the "old" Realms.
GoldDragon
01-21-08, 09:55 PM I don't care if they turn the Realms upside down. My question is how much of the 100s of dollars of books am I still going to be able to use when the new comes out. How much different will the rules be. How much of the old Realms stuff will be useful.
like I said I don't care what changes. I just want to be able to use my old stuff in conjunction with the new.

I collect the books but play the PC games.

Occasionally I will break out SSI GOldbox Series and It is suddenly only 10 years after the Flight of Dragons and I am an Adventurer trying to help re-build Plan

If I break out the Baulder Gate Series then it becomes 20? years after the Time of Troubles.

Book wise they pretty much try to tie things up. They have gone from True Psionists (2nd ed Psionics,mind ove matter) being loss because of Mystra dying during the time of troubles, along with the lost of Assassins and Cavilers cause of their specific related god's death or change in the Realms' dynamics cause of Mystra to the revival of the professions and Mentalist Wizards (3rd edition Psionics is Mentalism,face it)

So somebody killed Mystra/ So What?

Just means the Reality "circut breaker" that controls and filters supernatural effects like ghosts walking through walls, Psionics, Spellfire, Wizard spells, Priest Spells, and such is no longer going to be there.

Whether or not they get the Dynamics of that right, As in Gods granting spells are no longer limited nor are their Avatar's powers in the Prime, Ghosts can still walk through walls, Beholders can still shoot eye rays, Banchie can still wail, Balisks can still gaze, but Sorcerers,Mentalist Wizards, and Wizards will need to releaern to tap directly into the "Ether" instead of getting their magical power through "the Weave" ......remains to be seen.

My guess is the "raw Ether" might be to powerful for those to long weened on Mystra and some might go insane from the Raw Power without their "circut breaker"
johnkretzer
01-22-08, 04:17 AM Untehrian ruins still exist in Tymanther. So info could very well be useful, even if the Untherians are now slavering undead trying to suck the marrow from your bones:
"OK guys, this ghoul here that is trying to chew my leg off is a former war captain in the army of Gilgeam, the mad god king of Unther, who was slain by Tiamat during the Godswar... now that I have satisfied your curiosity on the strange emblem on his armor.... GET HIM OFF ME!"

We don't know that for a fact as the Dragonborn land appeared city and all...it might have shunted Unter and replaced it all...
Though that is a funny quote...
gomeztoo
01-22-08, 08:24 AM It is explicitly stated in the article on the WotC site.:

Tymanther lies atop the rubble of ancient Unther, and Untheric ruins are common throughout the land. Even in its decline, Unther was a rich and populous land, and many palaces and treasure vaults of the God-King’s favorites still wait to be discovered.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-22-08, 01:39 PM If I break out the Baulder Gate Series then it becomes 20? years after the Time of Troubles.

About 13 or 14 years.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gunnersmate 01-20-08, 08:30 PM	I don't care if they turn the Realms upside down. My question is how much of the 100s of dollars of books am I still going to be able to use when the new comes out. How much different will the rules be. How much of the old Realms stuff will be useful. like I said I don't care what changes. I just want to be able to use my old stuff in conjunction with the new.
Charles Phipps 01-20-08, 08:41 PM	You can. Just as long as it's all smashed together in your new Game world.
Gunnersmate 01-20-08, 09:29 PM	yes, but it appears that not only have the gods and people changed but the face of the Realms as well. Doesnt that make the older books obsolete?
Charles Phipps 01-20-08, 09:36 PM	If you want a strictly canon game, yes. However, I'm running 4E "story wise" and my players unfamiliarity with the matter means that I can incorporate NPCs and material from 3rd Edition without any problem. While they may be surprised if Mirt shows up, they have no reason to have problems with Scyulla taking over the Dales since she might well be immortal thanks to Fzoul's power.
Ryltar Swordsong 01-20-08, 10:57 PM	The older books are only obsolete if you let them be obsolete. Nothing says youhave to go along with the changes. The WotC police :incog: won't come and break your legs for noncompliance. I promise.
Fingoldfin 01-20-08, 11:36 PM	yes, but it appears that not only have the gods and people changed but the face of the Realms as well. Doesnt that make the older books obsolete? They're obsolete if you try to stick to canon in 4e. After the time jump they all become useless unless you choose to ignore canon Realms. There's nothing to stop you from mixing stuff from both editions together. If you like draconians you can say that the new draconian empire arrived in 1374 DR. If you don't like Netheril you can say they never took over Sembia. If you want to use NPCs and gods that WotC killed go ahead. The only real question is; did you read about any changes in the 4e Realms that you like enough to justify buying the books and doing all the extra work to use the two editions together? For me the answer is an easy no way in hell, but you need to decide that yourself.
Old Sage 01-21-08, 12:24 AM	The older Realmslore isn't obsolete so long as you still use it to run campaigns in the pre-Spellplague Realms. The older Realmslore isn't obsolete so long as you're still capable, as a DM, of making use of the previously published material to flesh out your own home Realms campaigns. The older Realmslore isn't obsolete so long as you're intrigued enough by the possibilities of 4e FR Realmslore to establish your own plots to connect the older lore with the newer lore. The pre-4e Realmslore will remain just as viable as the post-Spellplague Realmslore. It is simply a question of how you will use it and when.
OleOneEye 01-21-08, 01:19 AM	How much of the old Realms stuff will be useful. With all due respect, how much your materials have you actually used in a campaign? I would never be able to even scratch the surface of all the materials available for free on the Wizards website, more or less if I had purchased the many 3E sourcebooks published.
gomeztoo 01-21-08, 02:00 AM	I actually think that quite a lot of material will still be useful - even though most normal mortal NPCs are dead, all statblocks are useless, and some realms are gone. 100 years is nothing compare to the Realms' history, really. All the ruins are still there. Most cities still exist (though some changed). The history and background of races, monsters, and people is still valid. That little tavern that was detailed in guide X may still be there if you wish to. I got myself the Old Empires book and I can assure you it'll see use. I had a load of ideas from it. As far as I know, teh Realms are not that different as being unrecognizable.
Lord Karsus 01-21-08, 03:36 AM	-The...'usefulness' of previous lore really depends on what region you want to examine. Information on Unther, for example, isn't going to be very useful.
gomeztoo 01-21-08, 03:59 AM	Untehrian ruins still exist in Tymanther. So info could very well be useful, even if the Untherians are now slavering undead trying to suck the marrow from your bones: "OK guys, this ghoul here that is trying to chew my leg off is a former war captain in the army of Gilgeam, the mad god king of Unther, who was slain by Tiamat during the Godswar... now that I have satisfied your curiosity on the strange emblem on his armor.... GET HIM OFF ME!"
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-21-08, 06:50 PM	yes, but it appears that not only have the gods and people changed but the face of the Realms as well. Doesnt that make the older books obsolete? Lore doesn't become obsolete. Besides, no one is forcing you to stop using the "old" Realms.
GoldDragon 01-21-08, 09:55 PM	I don't care if they turn the Realms upside down. My question is how much of the 100s of dollars of books am I still going to be able to use when the new comes out. How much different will the rules be. How much of the old Realms stuff will be useful. like I said I don't care what changes. I just want to be able to use my old stuff in conjunction with the new. I collect the books but play the PC games. Occasionally I will break out SSI GOldbox Series and It is suddenly only 10 years after the Flight of Dragons and I am an Adventurer trying to help re-build Plan If I break out the Baulder Gate Series then it becomes 20? years after the Time of Troubles. Book wise they pretty much try to tie things up. They have gone from True Psionists (2nd ed Psionics,mind ove matter) being loss because of Mystra dying during the time of troubles, along with the lost of Assassins and Cavilers cause of their specific related god's death or change in the Realms' dynamics cause of Mystra to the revival of the professions and Mentalist Wizards (3rd edition Psionics is Mentalism,face it) So somebody killed Mystra/ So What? Just means the Reality "circut breaker" that controls and filters supernatural effects like ghosts walking through walls, Psionics, Spellfire, Wizard spells, Priest Spells, and such is no longer going to be there. Whether or not they get the Dynamics of that right, As in Gods granting spells are no longer limited nor are their Avatar's powers in the Prime, Ghosts can still walk through walls, Beholders can still shoot eye rays, Banchie can still wail, Balisks can still gaze, but Sorcerers,Mentalist Wizards, and Wizards will need to releaern to tap directly into the "Ether" instead of getting their magical power through "the Weave" ......remains to be seen. My guess is the "raw Ether" might be to powerful for those to long weened on Mystra and some might go insane from the Raw Power without their "circut breaker"
johnkretzer 01-22-08, 04:17 AM	Untehrian ruins still exist in Tymanther. So info could very well be useful, even if the Untherians are now slavering undead trying to suck the marrow from your bones: "OK guys, this ghoul here that is trying to chew my leg off is a former war captain in the army of Gilgeam, the mad god king of Unther, who was slain by Tiamat during the Godswar... now that I have satisfied your curiosity on the strange emblem on his armor.... GET HIM OFF ME!" We don't know that for a fact as the Dragonborn land appeared city and all...it might have shunted Unter and replaced it all... Though that is a funny quote...
gomeztoo 01-22-08, 08:24 AM	It is explicitly stated in the article on the WotC site.: Tymanther lies atop the rubble of ancient Unther, and Untheric ruins are common throughout the land. Even in its decline, Unther was a rich and populous land, and many palaces and treasure vaults of the God-King’s favorites still wait to be discovered.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-22-08, 01:39 PM	If I break out the Baulder Gate Series then it becomes 20? years after the Time of Troubles. About 13 or 14 years.:)