Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 10-22-07, 07:42 PM	Here’s my version of the FR apocalypse for my campaign, if anyone is interested. I may or may not change it, depending on what the actual 4E version looks like. However, this is what they get from Kelemvor’s Seraph when he narrates the events. Feel free to comment and give me the once over if you don't mind. I'd love to hear suggestions or your versions. The Twilight of the Gods It is said amongst the Prophecies of Alaundo the Seer that there will be seven great conflicts amongst the gods that will prepare for the end of the world. The first of these conflicts was the battle between Selune and Shar that created Mystryl. The second of these resulted in the defeat of Gruumsh by Corellon and the banishment of Lolth. The third of these was the Orcgate Wars. The fourth of these was the Dawn Cataclysm that claimed the life of Tyche. The fifth conflict amongst the gods was the Time of Troubles. The sixth conflict would prove to be the most devastating up until that point. The seventh and final conflict would lay waste to the world and end creation. The sixth of these conflicts, called the Penultimate War, has occurred. It is a war that has left the gods deeply divided, many slain, and the entire world suffering from its effects. The Return of the Tyrant The roots of this conflict stem from an event that shocked all of the pantheon of gods, in the rebirth of Bane. Xvim; absorbing the essence of all of Bane’s surviving Baneliches and numerous artifacts was overwhelmed by his father’s consciousness reforming itself in his mind. Xvim’s own soul was cast out of his divine essence and Bane assumed his son’s portfolios. This resulted in many of the gods beginning their own plans to prevent the Tyrant from returning to his former position of power. The Elder Elemental Evil Lolth’s attempt to drive Ghaunadaur out of the Demon Web Pits proved to be a harrowing experience as the monstrous being almost utterly destroyed her with but the barest motion of its ancient being. Only after consulting with the darkest Abyssal Princes of knowledge did she discover that the being she knew as a minor god of slime and ooze was the avatar of a much greater power. Long ago had the gods wiped clean the knowledge of its followers to prevent the being from awakening to its true strength; a strength that would signal the end of Creation. Only the Greater Gods knew of this terrible truth and not even all of them, such as Cyric. The Dwarvish Ragnarok Moradin had long hoped for reconciliation amongst the Dwarven pantheon, but it was his wayward son Abbathor that brought the news that they could no longer dwell in peace together with him. Laduguer and Deep Duerra had committed the ultimate blasphemy amongst the gods and sought to experiment with the power of Ghaunadaur. They had even taught its true name, Tharizdun, to some of their followers. Shocking most of the pantheons, Moradin attacked the plane of Hammergrim and slaughtered every one of their faithful with no soul spared in the furious assault. Gorm Gulthyn, Haela Brightaxe, and many brave Dwarf souls paid the ultimate price for their victory. Moradin would honor their clergy by granting them their spells and asking their clergy to continue praying for them in honor of their great deed. Amongst the evil Dwarves; Abbathor would claim most of their souls by appearing to their clergy as a Duergar of incredible wealth and power. Thus, would Abbathor’s might rise to be nearly equal of Moradin. A portion, incensed at Abbathor’s effrontery, would go to worship Ghaunadaur or Shar instead. Much of the race would become less lawful and more treacherous as a result. The Parting of the Ways Siamorphe had long found herself uncomfortable in the House of the Triad. The ultimate arbitrators of Law and Good in the Realms cared little for pageantry, bloodline, or birthright. Indeed, Torm outright rejected that these were anything more than trappings to the service of the greater good. Matters came to a head when Tyr refused to bring his full support down behind Tethyr and the divine right sensibilities she'd been cultivating. Ultimately, Sune wooed Siamorphe away from the Triad by promising that her church would support hers. Sune appreciated the pretensions of nobility that were an end to themselves in Siamorphe's church and the romantic notions they fostered amongst the nobility. Tyr, on the other hand, was incensed by what he saw as the loss of a valuable stabilizing force. In truth, this was a deeper game of Sunes as she hoped to draw Tyr into a dialogue with her. The allies of good had become too divided and the return of Bane terrified her. Setting in motion plans that would take decades to reach fruition, she intended to start a series of marriages across the Planes to unite the various powers in opposition to the Great Evils (Cyric, Shar, and Bane with Talos curiously exempted). Tyr agreed, resulting in a terrible disaster. The Duel of the Gods Cyric, twisted and insane, was possessed of an unpredictability that made him dangerous in ways that few gods could deal with even with their omniscience. Knowing about Sune's actions thanks to his domination of intrigue, he sought some way to destroy them in a suitably ironic way. The answer would come from human emotion that few amongst the gods were prepared to battle against. Beshaba provided the answer as she came with the news that Tymora had once been Helm's lover in the distant past. Their relationship had been deep and meaningful even if it could not stand long given their varying natures. Sacrificing a good portion of his divine essence; Cyric crafted a terrible potion that could effect even a god. This potion inflamed Helm's jealousy against Tyr and the former challenged the later to a duel until one of them yielded. It was a minor change in their personality but one that could only end one way. Helm and Tyr were, by their nature, unable to yield except by death. Sune's alliance would never come to pass as nothing but hatred existed in Tymora's heart existed for the murderer of her once lover. Tyr's churches were soon vandalized by much of Helm's clergy as civil war broke out between many of the temples over their god's murder. Few Helm clergy would convert to Tyr's worship. After the initial violence settled down; most of Helm's followers would convert to either Torm or Siamorphe with a small contingent turning to Bane's worship in outrage. Tyr, unwilling to dishonor his friend, allowed Helm's portfolios to be claimed by Torm. Disgusted by the violence and the lengths that Tyr would go to for 'duty', Ilmater left the Triad and became more moderate in his views. Instead of pursuing a mixture of law and goodness, he would solely seek good. The Fall of Mystra Though Tyr was weakened by requiring all of his strength to defeat Helm, he immediately called for a Crusade to destroy Cyric's followers throughout the Realms. Countless Cyricist sects were found and uprooted by Tyr, Torm, Helm's former followers along with even Tyrmora and Sune's clergy. Abetted by Mystra and Bane, the following of the Dark Sun seemed likely to become extinct. Cyric's end seemed assured before he recieved aide from an unexpected source in Shar. Sensing Cyric's suicidal bravery, motivated by his sense that he was doomed, she made him an offer to use the Shadow Weave for a nightmarish spell. Cyric would repeat Karsus' folly and absorb the totality of Mystra's essence. Cyric, barely clinging to Lesser God status, agreed to the demon's bargain. Velsharoon, choosing to betray Mystra for Kiaranshlee's former worshippers that had mostly converted to Shar, lead Cyric into Dweomerheart were he confronted her. Mystra would have slain Cyric if not for the fact that she realized Shar would use this opportunity to seize control of the Weave. Mystra thus allowed herself to be absorbed into Cyric as she proceeded to then strike back at Shar through him. Dweomerheart was destroyed in the resulting cataclysm that spread across the Planes in a cosmic detonation. The Merging of the Worlds The reshaping of Creation performed by Mystra shattered Shar's control of the Weave and resulted in countless gods being banished from the Realms to their original home planes. It would require titanic efforts from their followers and gods for them to restore their original connections. However, Shar's ancient power was utterly shattered and her plans for creation set back by tens of thousands of years. Azuth was last seen battling Velsharoon in a spell duel across several different planes of existence. The Prime Material Plane did not go unscathed for Mystra's choice for gates were opened throughout the Realms to various planes. Demons, Devils, Deva, Jinn, and spirits of long dead Dragons poured forth to try and claim a portion of the Realms for themselves. Many great heroes (and villains) perished containing the damage. Worse, Cyric's brief control of the Weave allowed him to place a nightmarish curse upon the Wizards of the Realm. Countless wizards were driven insane by connection to Cyric's mind for even the briefest moments. Oddly, the number of Sorcerers in the Realms would greatly amplify while wizards found they no longer had anyone to answer to for their magic. The Weave had become one with the Realms. Rumors persist that Mystra still lives but Cyric’s form was bound then in his own dimension by an alliance of the gods. Cyric's sentence would be torment by the Night Serpent continually filling his mind with nightmares for a thousand years. In the end, The Dark Sun's life was spared solely by the unexpected insistence of Bane. The Tyrant intended to torture the Dark Sun by forcing him to watch his faith slowly dwindle to nothing before execution at the end of his sentence.
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 09:01 PM	The Twilight of the Gods It is said amongst the Prophecies of Alaundo the Seer that there will be seven great conflicts amongst the gods that will prepare for the end of the world. The first of these conflicts was the battle between Selune and Shar that created Mystryl. The second of these was the Orcgate Wars. The third of these resulted in the defeat of Gruumsh by Corellon and the banishment of Lolth. The fourth of these was the Dawn Cataclysm that claimed the life of Tyche. The fifth conflict amongst the gods was the Time of Troubles. The sixth conflict would prove to be the most devastating up until that point. The seventh and final conflict would lay waste to the world and end creation. The sixth of these conflicts, called the Penultimate War, has occurred. It is a war that has left the gods deeply divided, many slain, and the entire world suffering from its effects. -If you want this in chronological order, reverse numbers two and three.
Charles Phipps 10-22-07, 09:14 PM	Thanks. Nice catch. I think I got confused because of the Crown Wars.
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 09:34 PM	I think I got confused because of the Crown Wars. -The Crown Wars happened before the Orcgate Wars too. ;)
Charles Phipps 10-22-07, 09:43 PM	Yes, which is why I would be confused since I thought they happened afterwards.
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 11:49 PM	-Knowledge is power. :thumbsup:
johnkretzer 10-23-07, 02:18 AM	-Knowledge is power. :thumbsup: I had a science teacher who favorite saying was that...his name of course was Mr. Powers. On topic... It sounds like you have a nice apocalypse going. Though from what I got from the GHotR was that Lloth was cast down before the elves ever got to the Realms...atleast I don't remember that event in the GHotR....
Charles Phipps 10-23-07, 02:57 AM	I prefer the Complete Book of Elves version where the two events are linked.
Lord Karsus 10-23-07, 12:19 PM	I had a science teacher who favorite saying was that...his name of course was Mr. Powers. -Was his middle name 'Danger'? ;) Though from what I got from the GHotR was that Lloth was cast down before the elves ever got to the Realms...atleast I don't remember that event in the GHotR.... -It was in there. Araushnee was banished from the Seldarine circa -30,000 (AGHotR pg. 8). The first Elves (Wood Elves and Dark Elves)came to Abeir-Toril circa -27,000 (AGHotR pg. 8). AGHotR did not change or elaborate anything in this instance- it was always like that.
Charles Phipps 10-23-07, 12:41 PM	Yes, so anything on the actual work? Need anything to spruce it up? Too generic?
selunatic2397 10-23-07, 01:22 PM	It reads nice, and is probably what I could have accepted from Rich in my still unanswered question about why the gods acted so stupid... But, it really doesn't sync up with the style of my campaign... Great work though! :) It gives enough bacground to the God Mess that it kinda makes sense now... I probably won't get a response from Rich anyway...I don't seem to be in the clique that he responds to...:allalone: Again, great work! Thanks for sharing it with us.
Charles Phipps 10-23-07, 01:32 PM	Cool, what's the style of your campaign?
selunatic2397 10-23-07, 01:50 PM	I've always used a points of light theme, but have never used the all powerful/all knowing groups [either good or evil] My group never saw a need for Cyric after Bane came back, so he is being downgraded to demigod of murder. We have gotten to the players character's children [neat trick given elf and dwarf pcs] andthe players are into finding ancient sites and artifacts and storing them for a future times needs. They have repeatedly gotten tired of all the shadow weave and Shar and all the related nonsense, and asked me to just get rid of her. We had a council and voted, and then just split up the portfolios...some were just dumped...They were really clever about it and had been really thinking about what they wanted in our twice a month campaign. I am starting up a "Fire Versus Ice" campaign featuring Auril [being upgraded] battling Khossuth. This works due to one player's main character having an incredibly old ice sword, and his character's firstborn son weilding an equally ancient fire blade... Maybe I'll get the player to battle himself by the end game :D Any ideas or suggestions for future havok?
Charles Phipps 10-23-07, 01:53 PM	No, it sounds pretty good. Though I'd be interested in who got Shar's portfolios.
selunatic2397 10-23-07, 02:19 PM	*Goes and burrows into his overstuffed DM issue backpack* Lets see...Mask got secrets [and intrigue from the downgraded Cyric] No one got caverns/dungeons/underdark Darkness [a minor elder elemental monarch in my game] got dark Auril got forgetfulness and loss due to an excellant speech from a player who justified it as "She needs them to survive Khossuth/ something about hyperthermia/and buying us the next 2 pizzas" Leira...who never died in my campaign...retained Lies/Illusions and Deception. Night went to Selune as the goddess of the night sky. Bane reclaimed his lost portfolios from Cyric. Due to one player whining about a 30th Barbarian mentioned by Ed Greenwood [or so he said...does anyone remember this???]. I declared he was waiting for the Tarrasque to wake up and then ride it...he is now AO's hitman [considering 1ED Barbarians need 500,000xp per level past 8th avatars are his only level up challenge anymore] Hope this sounds logical to you...and if it doesn't please tell me why. :)
Vasyek 10-23-07, 05:04 PM	I think it's a pretty good take on the Spellplague incident. Cyric slipping Helm a mickey goes a way towards resolving the absurdity of him and Tyr trying to kill each other over Tymora. I'm not sure even WotC's Cyric would be willing to part with any significant fraction of his power to make the potion and I'm not sure Tyr would be inclined to agree to Helm's challenge in the first place, but there are ways to explain that I suppose. Cyric could have been giddy at the prospect of the Triad's collapse and assumed that, between their fractured/weakened state and the strife it would cause throughout Faerun, he'd more than make up for the investment. As for Tyr, I guess he might not have had much of a choice in the matter if Helm was so insane with jealousy. Even then though, Tyr could have probably avoided the fight by simply foreswearing his betrothal to Tymora, which seems like something he would have misgivings about even when he first consented to it. That said, I like the idea. It reminds me of the myth of how Tezcatlipoca drove Quetzalcoatl from his position of power, albeit with the amusing twist of Quetzalcoatl turning around and *****-slapping him rather than fleeing in shame. Not sure I like Cyric casting Karsus's Avatar through the Shadow Weave, but if we're already entertaining the notion of him and Shar being able to prevent Mystra from anticipating their attack, which I don't have a problem with, it at least avoids the dubiousness of Cyric being able to personally kill Mystra within her own realm. I wouldn't have made him even a temporary 'caretaker' of the Weave in the aftermath though. If I wanted to make him into an FR Tharizdun knock-off, I'd stick with the scenario in which he killed Mystra in her own realm, with undisclosed aid from Shar, but have him severely wounded in the aftermath and only narrowly able to survive the cosmology's collapse by merging himself with a portion of the ensuing maelstrom. This would change him radically, turning him into more of a planar virus than a god and thus making it exceedingly difficult for his peers to harm him in any direct way. They would, however, be able to contain him within the Supreme Throne, which would essentially have become the maw of the vortex, with all the ruins of the non-greater gods' kingdoms whirling around and slowly dissolving within it, and hopefully starve him to death faith-wise/force him to succumb to the forces that keep him intact. There wouldn't be a period at which they deem his imprisonment to be at an end short of his death, and Cyric would again be raving mad. His insanity in this case would be a more extreme version of the way in which Prince of Lies describes him perceiving the pavilion/other gods: a solipsistic wasteland in which his peers were but malicious, dissenting voices within his own psyche and the planes were estranged and debased facets of himself. His goal would be more desperate here than domineering: foremost an attempt to repair the ways in which he sees himself as broken. The violation and destruction of these 'phantasms' that plague him is simply the means through which he feels his goal can be realized, and the matter of tormenting/exacting vengeance upon them is strictly a secondary motivation before that of escaping the revulsion and anxiety their existence evokes within him. If I wanted to keep Cyric relatively sane and intact, I'd have his and Shar's assault against Mystra be proceeded by them goading Talos into making a final bid for wild magic with the gods of fury in tow, at which point they, or rather Cyric, would be lunging at her from behind. The pair of them work to conceal Talos' intentions insofar as they can, but it's a forgone conclusion that Mystra and her allies will see him coming and they know it; they simply wish to prevent the conflict from subsiding before it can even begin, as it likely would if Mystra and her allies weren't at least delayed in their ability to prepare for Talos, and find their opportunity to strike while everyone else is caught up on that front. What remained of the Triad would initially lend their aid to Mystra, but are ultimately forced to withdraw as Bane took advantage of the confusion to wreak havoc on Torm's church, a preceding overture to the revenge he hopes to take against Torm for his defeat during the Time of Troubles. Mystra would end up dying as per the existing progression when Cyric ambushes her at the climax of her battle with Talos, which may or may not have driven her into her own realm. Either way, Cyric would get caught up the backlash of her destruction and ultimately be forced to weather the chaos that wracks the planes thereafter. From his place within it, however, he is able to harvest power as it is bled from the lesser gods and their collapsing realms as he makes his way back to his own kingdom. Though these fail to gestate into portfolios as I described in the revising deities thread until some time after Cyric is imprisoned, between the added power they afford him even in their latent state and the convergence of so many other pressing concerns, the other gods elect to bind him within his own realm. As in the Cyric as Tharizdun case, however, they announce no period at which he may be released, hoping instead that he will dwindle to nothing as his followers scatter and are gradually purged by the churches of his enemies. Their wish would have likely come true in a number of decades, if not years, had Cyric not managed to counter his restraints in a number of ways: from his subversion of Xvim (again described in the revising deities thread), to declaring the abduction of others and their forced exodus to the heart of his realm, to be bred as cattle and their successive generations bound to his worship, as a paramount duty of his surviving clergy. Rumors persist that Mystra still lives but Cyric’s form was bound then in his own dimension by an alliance of the gods. Cyric's sentence would be torment by the Night Serpent continually filling his mind with nightmares for a thousand years. In the end, The Dark Sun's life was spared solely by the unexpected insistence of Bane. The Tyrant intended to torture the Dark Sun by forcing him to watch his faith slowly dwindle to nothing before execution at the end of his sentence. The above said, I think this a nice outcome out as well. Bane's intentions are great here, really more protracted and indirect in their cruelty than I'd be likely to give him credit for (not that that's a bad thing at all), and it does away with the sense that Cyric got away with his role in the Spellplague. A thousand years of being tortured with nightmares courtesy of an Elder Evil? Just kill the poor bastard already.
Charles Phipps 10-23-07, 05:16 PM	The big changes are as follows.... + Ilmater is now a NG deity. + Most of the Realms gods aren't slain, they're just banished. + The Weave is now unregulated by any god. + Ghaunadaur is a Overdeity that's got a Greater God Avatar. + Duergar are now a NE race. + Abbathor is now their god. + V's faithful amongst the Drow now draw on Mask. + Mask is now an Intermediate God verging on Greater. + Siamorphe is now a Lesser Goddess and most of Helm's Neutral and Evil followers. + Torm has most of Helm's old portfolios and is now a Intermediate God. Vasyek, I'll address your points in my next post. Edit: I've also added an "aftermath"
Charles Phipps 10-23-07, 05:45 PM	Cyric slipping Helm a mickey goes a way towards resolving the absurdity of him and Tyr trying to kill each other over Tymora. Yes, I can't imagine it happening under any other circumstances other than Cyric using some form of mind control. I'm not sure even WotC's Cyric would be willing to part with any significant fraction of his power to make the potion and I'm not sure Tyr would be inclined to agree to Helm's challenge in the first place, but there are ways to explain that I suppose. I think we've seen enough example of his behavior that Cyric's primary benefit isn't his cunning or planning ability but his willingness to take insane risks with the cosmos and himself in order to further his power. I think he well figured the death of a member of the Quartet would be more long term in his favor than however long it took to gain back X amount of power. As for Tyr, I guess he might not have had much of a choice in the matter if Helm was so insane with jealousy. Even then though, Tyr could have probably avoided the fight by simply foreswearing his betrothal to Tymora, which seems like something he would have misgivings about even when he first consented to it. That may, honestly, be the weakest portion of this. My only answer would be that Tyr's nature is not to back down from any challenge (being the big Nordic deity that he is) and could never bring himself to back down from a Just Cause (which is what his marriage was) to unjust accusations. But Tyr loses a lot of respect, unfortunately, for sending Helm to the Astral. In my games, I think he's looking for Helmish artifacts in hopes of bringing his friend back. That said, I like the idea. It reminds me of the myth of how Tezcatlipoca drove Quetzalcoatl from his position of power, albeit with the amusing twist of Quetzalcoatl turning around and *****-slapping him rather than fleeing in shame. I confess I'm outright stealing a lot from Norse Mythology here. Basically, Loki suceeds in killing Baldur but instead of winning he's horribly punished by the Gods. Not sure I like Cyric casting Karsus's Avatar through the Shadow Weave, but if we're already entertaining the notion of him and Shar being able to prevent Mystra from anticipating their attack, which I don't have a problem with, it at least avoids the dubiousness of Cyric being able to personally kill Mystra within her own realm. I wouldn't have made him even a temporary 'caretaker' of the Weave in the aftermath though. Honestly, I was debating that Shar give him access to "Words" or whatever Orcus used to go on his rampage through the cosmos. However, I figured Karsus avatar was a lot more relevant and it was appropriate to see the end of his folly. I'd think I'd establish that Karsus spell is permanently erased from all creation though by the process. If I wanted to make him into an FR Tharizdun knock-off, I'd stick with the scenario in which he killed Mystra in her own realm, with undisclosed aid from Shar, but have him severely wounded in the aftermath and only narrowly able to survive the cosmology's collapse by merging himself with a portion of the ensuing maelstrom. That would definitely work, though I've already incorporated the real Tharizdun into this matter by having Ghaunadaur revealed to be him. In this case, I'm pretty sure that the "Next Apocalypse" would be Cyric (if he ever is freed) releasing Ghaunadaur into the world to destroy everything rather than being able to do it himself. You have an awesome godswar described there, BTW. Nice nod for Xvim as well. I'm not sure if I'm going to insert him anywhere though I think it's clear that he was "kicked out" of Bane rather than actively destroyed by him and is probably wandering the Realms again in quasi-power status, dreaming of his lost glories.
Abashi 10-27-07, 12:47 AM	Here's a rough synopsis of what I'm thinking so far.. The shadow weave is still around, as per the description of what would happen if Mystra dies in the Magic of Faerun book. Possibility that Tyr is oddly and crazily actually a version of Bane in disguise. As a deity he arrived -250 on the time line, oddly out of a portal, almost randomly from another world. According to wiki, Bane ascension occured sometime after -339, but doesn't say specifically when. I don't know the 'rules' regarding gods and disguises..(if someone has more information on this, I'd love it.) Bane according to the Deities of Faerun, doesn't hold a special grudge for Tyr, his polar opposite in portfolio... Tyr's right hand is missing. Bane's right hand is covered by a gauntlet. Tyr is punished as described in Deities of Faerun for "failing to witness the stealing of the tablets of fate" others list it here as questioning Ao. Tyr ultimately slays helm, in 1385? we all question this. Furthermore, the differences between Tyr'anny and just rule is a fine line indeed, from a philosophical standpoint. In many cases its simply a matter of perspective =) Beshaba cursed Azuth, Lathander and Selune when she was born from Moander's corruption of Tyche. At this point in time, Azuth is floating in the Astral, Lathander will most likely have his hands full, as it appears lolth's grasp is stronger, and selune well, without mystra to back her play.. its heavy speculation, but with what I have in front of me for actual books.. its pretty good so far.
Spirithawkfellow 10-29-07, 03:38 PM	Abashi Here's a rough synopsis of what I'm thinking so far.. The shadow weave is still around, as per the description of what would happen if Mystra dies in the Magic of Faerun book. Possibility that Tyr is oddly and crazily actually a version of Bane in disguise. As a deity he arrived -250 on the time line, oddly out of a portal, almost randomly from another world. According to wiki, Bane ascension occured sometime after -339, but doesn't say specifically when. I don't know the 'rules' regarding gods and disguises..(if someone has more information on this, I'd love it.) Bane according to the Deities of Faerun, doesn't hold a special grudge for Tyr, his polar opposite in portfolio... Tyr's right hand is missing. Bane's right hand is covered by a gauntlet. Tyr is punished as described in Deities of Faerun for "failing to witness the stealing of the tablets of fate" others list it here as questioning Ao. Tyr ultimately slays helm, in 1385? we all question this. Furthermore, the differences between Tyr'anny and just rule is a fine line indeed, from a philosophical standpoint. In many cases its simply a matter of perspective =) Beshaba cursed Azuth, Lathander and Selune when she was born from Moander's corruption of Tyche. At this point in time, Azuth is floating in the Astral, Lathander will most likely have his hands full, as it appears lolth's grasp is stronger, and selune well, without mystra to back her play.. its heavy speculation, but with what I have in front of me for actual books.. its pretty good so far. I like what you got here interesting take on things. But I will disagree that Bane is Tyr. Bane in different lore in the realms was a possible mortal, who was tricked into godhood by Jergal the senechal and holder of the portfolios Bane had at that time. When I mean tricked, I do believe Jergal was tired of the office, and was happy to shed of his divine essence, to Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal. Bane as a evil god hated everybody, Mystra, Torm, ev even Tyr. It was through Bane that Tyr's holy relic the hammer of Tyr was stolen. So their churches have been at odds. Know for the big thing the killing of Helm. I do believe like everyone else that there are foul forces at work that made Tyr and Helm vie for Tymora and seem out of character. But what doesn't bother me is the slaying of Helm in a duel of Honor, which knights did all the time. The whole Tyr and Helm thing smacks of chivalric knighthood, and thus this incident represent those high ideals, so it possibly does make sense Tyr killing Helm in a contest of arms, thus fitting into what he at the core is- a chilvalric knight, plus consolidating Portfolios, of justice law and guardianship. Ao would not interfere because that might fit with what he wanted. If that the case Ao is doing some tony soprano shiiiznit on an epic level lol. As I remember, Tyr and Helm were never friends, and more like competing god in the first place. Before ToT, Helm was a greater god,and it was being the god of guardians that many people of faerun saw him as one of the reasons for the time of troubles by not letting the gods return to the heavens in the first place and his stock fell. The maztica incidents with Helm clergy subjugating various races there lowered his standard and his divine status even more. Helm was never part of Tyr's Triad, Like Illmater or Torm, which made up the Triad to begin with. I like the idea of Sylune being the goddess of magic and a greater goddess at that, or having Mystra that serves under her. I think that works. I like what you got thought Excelsior Spirit
RadicalTaoist 10-29-07, 04:33 PM	Charles Phipps Iiiiiiinteresting. I'm not fond of divine soap operas - they're one of my beefs with the setting as a whole - but you've set up a consistent story well. I'd be more interested in what these events would do to the Realms rather than the planes. Amn, Tethyr and Calimshan - what happens to them? How does Cormyr deal? Mulhorand and Unther are BIG issues and tied to what happens in your account. My personal questions: What happens to Ubtao? (I'm a huge fan of the Chultan Peninsula; it's my favorite part of the Realms) What happens to Red Knight? (She's risen pretty far pretty fast, and is the deity of strategy after all; she should find a way to come out ahead) What happens to Ilsensine? (This just needs to be answered to clear up what happens to Underdark geopolitics in response to the events you've described in the Drow and Dwarf pantheons; Ilsensine is also the kind of deity who'd see trouble coming) I also love Abashi's idea of Tyr and Bane being the same god. Possibly, long ago Bane focused his evil into his right hand and cut it off. He then underwent amnesia and a transformation into Tyr. The right hand regrew to divine status on its own and is who we know as Bane now.
Charles Phipps 10-29-07, 05:35 PM	I've backed away from the "getting rid of all the Monster and other racial Pantheons" business. I've been persuaded that this is going to be a false and upsetting change to my campaign. I've instead added another new change to my godswar. This reflects our campaign rather than the actual canon. I thought people would just like to look over them. I will debate whether using this or not in my campaign until I see what canon offers. The Lyre Wars Mask the God of Thieves, high from the gaining of so many new followers and stealing power from both Shar and Cyric, makes a daring and twisted assault on the House of Knowledge. From there, Mask proceeds to slay Deneir as well as Milil. This is done with the evil heart of Finder Wyvernspur that is actually the seed of the Demigod Moander. Finder proceeds to incarnate his dark side before destroying it completely. Deneir leaves behind his completed book and final instructions to his clergy that they are to seek a member of their clergy, a messiah figure, whom shall be the one to read the masterwork and understand it. Savas, still shuddering from the loss of Dweamnorheart, takes up residence in the House of Knowledge to fill the void of Deneir. Finder, in repentance for his horrible part in the devastation of the House of Knowledge, recants of his own name and becomes the new Milil (with some referring to him as Finder-Milil). While the religion of Milil becomes more focused on trickery and somewhat darker, the religion nevertheless thrives. Aftereffects After the Spell Plague settles down, Selune appears in most of the Churches of Mystra before proceeding to offer her knowledge and touch to the people thereof. While the religion takes a heavy hit, most of the faith turns to her in this time of need or switches over to Azuth and Oghma. Cyric's go even deeper underground. While many Cyricists struggle to become more subtle as a result, the Madness portion of Cyric's increasingly dominates. Large numbers begin to defect to Mask's clergy as the Masked God's star rises. Cyric's dreams start appearing across the Realms as terrible monsters. With the loss of his Greater God status, the Supreme Throne sinks into the Abyss. Eventually, Azuth returns and takes up residence in The House of Knowledge. He assumes fully the title of God of Magic as Sorcerers come to worship him or Selune. Selune creates her own domain in "The Silver Heavens" which Lurue and Nobanion comes to live upon. Velsharoon, however, is soon seen in the Barrens of Doom and Despair. Thus, the changes added include.... + Deneir's followers are currently seeking the new member of their faith with most being aided by Oghma. + Finder has raised to the status of a Lesser God with taking Milil's portfolio. + Finder-Milil converts to Chaotic Good. + Savras is now God of Hidden Knowledge and Seeking. + Mask is now Intermediate God of Assassins, Intrigue, Rogues, Shadows, Secrets. + Cyric drops to the status of an Intermediate God but gaining the portfolio of Nightmares, Horror, and Madness. + Selune raises to the Status of Greater Goddess. Gaining the Portfolios of Magic, Mystery, Balance, and Enlightenment. + Azuth moves to the House of Knowledge but becomes allied with Selune. + Selune creates her Silver Heavens plane. + Velsharoon gains the portfolios of Rot and Decay and becomes a Lesser God.
Charles Phipps 10-29-07, 05:45 PM	I'd be more interested in what these events would do to the Realms rather than the planes. Amn, Tethyr and Calimshan - what happens to them? How does Cormyr deal? Mulhorand and Unther are BIG issues and tied to what happens in your account. Here's what happens in MY campaign setting, if my player characters don't bring it in line with regular canon. Mortal Side of Things + The Church of Siamorphe becomes the Official State Religion of Tethyr. This is despite the ambivalence of the King towards the faith. Churches of Tyr and Torm are encouraged to convert or be shut down. The faiths become much smaller there. Lord Hhume amply funds the Church while continuing his own vile demon worship. + The Church of Helm is largely absorbed into the Church of Torm in the North with quite a few converting to Bane worship or small settings of Siamorphe. Bane's worship outside of Zhentil Keep is something that deeply troubles Fzoul. The Helmite Banites are also much more inclined to portray their god 'Justly' + The Spellplague results in Amn absorbing the Cowled Wizards as an official organization to root out and destroy unregistered Magicians. Arcane Magic becomes Illegal unless one is a chartered magician. Many strictures and bigotry against Magicians occur across the land. + The Spell Plague hurts the War Wizards drastically and they are forced to reinvent themselves as "The King's Cloaks" with magic giving in large way to conventional non-magical spies. + The Red Wizards of Thay meanwhile set their sights Southwards and start fostering the Church of Set (now a popular God due to his mastery of Magic) in Mulhorand. The Pharoah is assassinated and there is civil chaos throughout the land. The Cult of Set begins growing increasingly popular as an alternative to the traditional gods. + Red Knight is largely unaffected by this but allies with Torm and Tyr in a manner that makes Tempus somewhat uncomfortable. Her status grows to that of a Lesser Goddess as well. + Ubato eats and breeds, no change. + Ilsensine's worship takes advantage of the chaos to cement itself as a non-evil alternative even as few Duergar and Drow find it appropriate. The god nevertheless steps up its persecution of Ghaunadaur's followers.
RadicalTaoist 10-29-07, 06:11 PM	+ The Spell Plague hurts the War Wizards drastically and they are forced to reinvent themselves as "The King's Cloaks" with magic giving in large way to conventional non-magical spies. I trust that the Regent was able to protect the next Azoun until his ascension? + The Red Wizards of Thay meanwhile set their sights Southwards and start fostering the Church of Set (now a popular God due to his mastery of Magic) in Mulhorand. The Pharoah is assassinated and there is civil chaos throughout the land. The Cult of Set begins growing increasingly popular as an alternative to the traditional gods. Hey, Set is impersonating Ssekh (if I remember the spelling correctly; Set thus has become the focus of most yuan-ti worship) according to Serpent Kingdoms. The yuan-ti react to all this how? + Ilsensine's worship takes advantage of the chaos to cement itself as a non-evil alternative even as few Duergar and Drow find it appropriate. The god nevertheless steps up its persecution of Ghaunadaur's followers. ...I thought Ilsensine was LE like all illithids...
Charles Phipps 10-29-07, 06:54 PM	Oddly, that was a typo. :-) It was meant to be an "evil" alternative for some few. Overall, the Illithids profit well from it but not much changes for it. But yes, Alusair protects Azoun V just fine. + The Yuan Ti meanwhile take up residence in many of the Temples of Set throughout Mulhorandi as they begin obscene breeding experiments while hiding behind the closed doors of the Temple. The Thayans are unaware of what they have allowed through their backdoors.
Charles Phipps 10-29-07, 07:27 PM	I finished my version. http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10172
Spirithawkfellow 10-30-07, 01:30 AM	Charles not bad, not bad at all. Now lets hope the PC live through all this. Set a place for me at the table, if there thing to rescue in the Realms, Spirit is always ready lol.
Charles Phipps 10-30-07, 01:32 AM	Thanks. I think I managed to capture many great changes while also staying reasonably Realmspecific.