Myrkul resurrection? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Myrkul resurrection? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Finellach
09-22-06, 10:06 PM What do you think about Myrkul coming back as a deity. But here is the deal....I thought about it and came to the conclusion I really like Kelemvor but Myrkul coming back would be great as well. But here is the trick: not as god of death and the dead but as god of undead and undeath. :)

I think that would be suiting for him and would bring some interesting interactions between gods....also brining in mind that there is no "greater" deity of undead and necromancy but only demi-powers.

One of the ideas I came up with and thought it would be really great and interesting is for example Velsharoon finding and acquiring the 'Crown of Horns' and fusing himself with Myrkul with the two becoming one and a new deity of intermediate power(f.e.).

What do you think? Lame? Cool? Opinions please.
Also please bear in mind that this is just a simple question...thinking 'aloud' if you will.

Oh and my first post. :D
Regards.
Bladesong
09-22-06, 10:14 PM That makes sense. The god of death in general needs to be neutral, not evil. The best judges are neutral and impartial to good or evil, only what is right. Myrkul could be Kelemvor's Garagos. However, isn't there already a god of undeath?
Finellach
09-22-06, 10:57 PM However, isn't there already a god of undeath?

There is Orcus. The demon-lord who usurps this position as the 'Lord of the Undead' but he is only a demi-power...not really a god. The true successor to Myrkul as the demi-power of Necromancy and undead creatures is Velsharoon actually. AFAIK it is even mentioned in fact that he is seeking the 'Crown of Horns' where Myrkul's power is stored. So if he would acquire this item that would be almost exactly as I proposed. Also that would lift Velashroon/Myrkul (back) to deity status and even as a lesser deity he would be far superior to Orcus and Orcus would thus be forced to yield.

I think there is great story potential between all of this. Maybe some new book in the future. :D

Of course taking into account what was happening in the backround of all this
- Myrkul being slain but avoiding utter destruction with his power transfered and stored in 'Crown of Horns'
- Velsharoon seeking this 'item' with motive to become god of necromancy and undead
- Orcus being a demon-prince and bitter foe of Demogorgon and Graz'zt
- Slaying of Orcus by Drow demi-power Kiransalee and his weakened return to life and his coming to prime plane
Lord Karsus
09-23-06, 12:06 AM -I suggest that you search the boards for one of the other Resurrect Myrkul threads, and see what other nifty ideas you can extrapolate and filch from them.
Chloramantis
09-23-06, 12:54 AM That's a pretty sweet idea. Myrkul was awesome! Velsharoon is like Cyric, they both were created to fill a void left by the deaths of two of the greatest evils. Kelemvor is a great god of the Dead, don't get me wrong, but Myrkul could be an awesome god of Undeath. The Crown of Horns is a cool idea? Velsharoon will put the Crown on and Myrkul will burst forth from his undead head!
GothicDan
09-23-06, 02:22 AM I hate Kelemvor with a fiery passion. He doesn't judge anything at all. Judging implies that he has to actually make a decision between two parties. He's small-minded, too affected by his mortal biases, knows not an ounce about death or negative energy on a cosmological scale, and is a hypocritical, naive, bratty... Err. Ahem.

That being said, I loved Myrkul. But he sadly likes being in the Crown of Horns MORE than he liked being a deity, because as a deity, he could rarely directly get his hands dirty while sticking to the rules of 'no direct intervention unless someone treads on your portfolio.'

But Jergal was still my favorite deity of the dead.

A few other deities of death and/or the dead by alignment - Hel (NE), Hades (NE), Chemosh (NE), Nerull (NE), Jergal (LE), Chronepsis (LN), Osiris (LG), Sehanine Moonbow (CG); the Orcish deity is Evil, the Gnome one is Good I believe...

Ultimately, it should be up to how each CULTURE views death that determines what the alignment of the appropriate god "should be." Since religion was dominated primarily by the elite in Egyptian society, its focus was on the afterlife of the nobility - who, naturally, would say that they are true and just (LG). The Elves move on to Arvandor - so their death is something beautiful and liberating (CG).

Of course, I think Skall would have made an amazing god of death/the dead, myself. I really think that NE is the most overall "fitting" alignment for such a god, in the "I don't care whether or not you live or die" sort of way. The "passive" NE.
thorchilde
09-23-06, 10:37 AM In my campaign, Orcus has been luring stalwart worshippers of Myrkul into worshipping him. Thus giving him more divine power, granting spells... Orcus seemed a logical choice giving that he lost alot of his power after being killed. He is "a demon reborn" and is looking for new ways to destroy his oldest and newest rivals.

Myrkul was an interesting deity, but I think that there have been enough resurrections of deities in FR. I would support the Velsharoon/Myrkul merger to help Velsharoon gain more followers and power, but for now my PC's have been dealing with the demon prince and his machinations.
Gray Richardson
09-23-06, 01:14 PM Because of the Morning, Noon, and Dusk cycle of the Sun God in the Realms, Myrkul, who presumably still holds the Dusk Portfolio within the confines of his crown, probably cannot be reborn until Lathander dies.

However, since Lathander seems on the verge of initiating a new Dawn Cataclysm, and since that is likely to fall apart on him like the last one, Lathander's end may soon be iminent. Oh, and Amaunator has to be reborn too. Once Amaunator is reborn and Lathander has died, then the door is open for Myrkul to return.

I guess theoretically, Myrkul could be reborn before that if he were to give up the Dusk portfolio somehow.
Xavier_of_Cormyr
09-23-06, 01:43 PM wow, I'm shocked no one has mentioned Velsharoon. Y'know, the lich god with "necromancy, lichdom & undeath" as his portfolio. Read pages 110-111 from Faiths & Pantheons; Velsharoon pretty much has the udnead thing locked up. Having another god of undead is just beating a dead horse.

heh, I couldn't resist myself :rimshot:
GothicDan
09-23-06, 03:38 PM Velsharoon's been mentioned many times.

And I don't think that Myrkul can hold the "Dusk" portfolio while he's in the Crown, otherwise, with every Dusk that passes, he would gain a small bit of divine power, and would be at least DvR 0.

I'd be pretty upset if Lathander went. He's actually one of my favorite deities.
Gray Richardson
09-23-06, 04:23 PM Possibly. But no one else holds the Dusk portfolio at present. My theory is that Myrkul still has it. But I could certainly be wrong. It's just a theory.

If he does still have it, then it leaves room for Myrkul to come back as a god some day...

Though frankly, I am surprised that Cyric isn't going after the Dusk portfolio. He is named the Dark Sun after all. I would think a chance to be tied into the tripartite sun-deity would be quite a feather in his cap.

But then again, maybe he can't go after it until some god takes up the portfolio of the Sun. Either Amaunator has to be reborn, or some god like Horus-Re has to step in and fill the shoes of the High Sun aspect, before Dusk can come up for grabs.
The Ubbergeek
09-23-06, 04:39 PM Gothic, see it that way - Myrkul is interesting, but a bit... stereotypical. I mean, are not you tired of all those 'gyargh, I am the evil god of death, deads and undeads?!?' ?

Kelemvor is not perfect, but I think he should be given some love. He is at least soemthing different - a god of death/dead/whatever who is peacefull, the natural order of things, impartial and is against undeath.

Death is, after all, a part of nature and it's order. He suits this well.
Lord Karsus
09-23-06, 07:12 PM I'd be pretty upset if Lathander went. He's actually one of my favorite deities.

-It's because he is so beautiful, isn't it? ;) :)
GothicDan
09-24-06, 12:00 AM Gothic, see it that way - Myrkul is interesting, but a bit... stereotypical. I mean, are not you tired of all those 'gyargh, I am the evil god of death, deads and undeads?!?' ?

A) Being a person who is friendly and loves those close to him is also pretty stereotypical, but that doesn't mean one should stop trying to be that way just to be different. Stereotypes don't really bother me all that much, as long as I personally like them.

B) Myrkul was never described in the way you're describing him. For instance, I showed the F&A section on Myrkul to a DM of mine, who had never before played in FR, and he said that he liked him a lot more than Nerull. Myrkul, as I pointed out, was more the "passive" Neutral Evil than the "Rawr I kill things, dead death evil" like Nerull is.

Kelemvor is not perfect, but I think he should be given some love. He is at least soemthing different - a god of death/dead/whatever who is peacefull, the natural order of things, impartial and is against undeath.

Undead occur naturally, and the gods dictate what is really "natural" outside of whatever already-existent planar effects might be in place already. And you can't be both "impartial" and "against undeath." The two don't mix.

And no, he's NOT different. As I pointed out, there are several Good (and at least one Neutral) deity of death out there, that were around long before Kelemvor. However, they're not so incredibly stupid or hypocritical.

Death is, after all, a part of nature and it's order. He suits this well.

In FR, there's really not much of a definition of what's "natural." Ed makes this pretty clear in at least two replies that I can recall, one of which details the fact that, in FR, undead can exist totally off of magical energy itself, and not have to resort to utilizing negative energy.

To clergy of Shar, the presence of light may seem unnatural - and it is, in large part, since before Selune dipped into the Elemental Plane of Fire, there was no sun. The "natural" argument makes absolutely no sense, because "naturally" Realmspace is nothing but a swirling void of darkness.

Remember, this is FR - not real life. The Etruscans and the Egyptians thought that undead spirits were quite "natural," anyway.
GothicDan
09-24-06, 12:01 AM -It's because he is so beautiful, isn't it?

One reason, yes. ;)
Ironferret
09-24-06, 03:26 AM Yes your idea is very good and I am also working on something. The One and only Bane plays a big part in it and his plot to get revenge on AO for all the pain he caused The lord of darkness during the Times of Trouble. A part of it is gaining control of the crown, a vial of water from under the Boareskyr Bridge, and a few other odds and ends. The complete resurrection of Myrkul and Bhaal is essential in his plans and it also will take a very long time. Time means nothing to him ,oh and if a few lesser Godlings have to fall then so be it.

Keep it up like I said its a good idea THE DEAD THREE must return. I miss the old days:)

I have not decides to make this epic adventure for evil or good.

The God of Death or The undead whatever I would like to see him back
Finellach
09-24-06, 10:31 AM Heh...nice to see that many of you like this proposition. Just proves what I thought - that Myrkul is liked. Personally I don't have a much of an opinion on Kelemvor...it's not as if 'I don't like him', it's more that I am indifferent to him. On the other side it makes sense to me that he is neutral as god of death. But this has left the void for evil part of death, the undead, etc. This is where Myrkul comes in and of coure Velsharoon....or together if they fuse somehow. In short I really think this is a great and interesting idea.
The Ubbergeek
09-24-06, 12:44 PM Personaly, I'd prefer to ressurect the Great Corruptor, the Rotting One - Moander. That was one freaky, unusual god.
Lord Karsus
09-24-06, 05:33 PM -I'd prefer that someone reunite my parts, actually. Don't know if I'd retain any lingering divinity, but it sure would be nice to be whole..:rolleyes:
Manshoon13
09-24-06, 08:22 PM In my campaign the Zulkir of necromancy (Wizards of Thay) find the crown of thorns. He battled Velsharoon and he won, he took the Velsharoon's portfolio. I also like the idea of having Velsharoon find it.
Ironferret
09-26-06, 09:25 PM :drool: Lathander is off his rocker you know almost tearing the world to shreds during his little remake the pantheon in my own image rant. Oh what was it The DAWN Apocalypse or something well he is on of the most egoistical god out their.:D I mean the worst Bane and Myrkul have done were swipe the Tablets of Fate and in turn get AO :headexplo
Ironferret
09-26-06, 09:33 PM Manshoon13 thats cool I like change and the thought of a RED WIZARD with the job makes me:D . HAHAHA I love it do you mean ol' Tam that's great he's perfect.:D
Apostate
10-04-06, 06:37 PM Manshoon13 thats cool I like change and the thought of a RED WIZARD with the job makes me:D . HAHAHA I love it do you mean ol' Tam that's great he's perfect.:D

Actually, I believe that Velsharoon was one of Szass Tam's greatest rivals for the seat of Zulkir, so a Red Wizard already has the "job". :)
Lord Karsus
10-04-06, 06:45 PM Actually, I believe that Velsharoon was one of Szass Tam's greatest rivals for the seat of Zulkir, so a Red Wizard already has the "job". :)

-Szazz Tam also beat the pants off of the mortal Velsharoon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Finellach 09-22-06, 10:06 PM	What do you think about Myrkul coming back as a deity. But here is the deal....I thought about it and came to the conclusion I really like Kelemvor but Myrkul coming back would be great as well. But here is the trick: not as god of death and the dead but as god of undead and undeath. :) I think that would be suiting for him and would bring some interesting interactions between gods....also brining in mind that there is no "greater" deity of undead and necromancy but only demi-powers. One of the ideas I came up with and thought it would be really great and interesting is for example Velsharoon finding and acquiring the 'Crown of Horns' and fusing himself with Myrkul with the two becoming one and a new deity of intermediate power(f.e.). What do you think? Lame? Cool? Opinions please. Also please bear in mind that this is just a simple question...thinking 'aloud' if you will. Oh and my first post. :D Regards.
Bladesong 09-22-06, 10:14 PM	That makes sense. The god of death in general needs to be neutral, not evil. The best judges are neutral and impartial to good or evil, only what is right. Myrkul could be Kelemvor's Garagos. However, isn't there already a god of undeath?
Finellach 09-22-06, 10:57 PM	However, isn't there already a god of undeath? There is Orcus. The demon-lord who usurps this position as the 'Lord of the Undead' but he is only a demi-power...not really a god. The true successor to Myrkul as the demi-power of Necromancy and undead creatures is Velsharoon actually. AFAIK it is even mentioned in fact that he is seeking the 'Crown of Horns' where Myrkul's power is stored. So if he would acquire this item that would be almost exactly as I proposed. Also that would lift Velashroon/Myrkul (back) to deity status and even as a lesser deity he would be far superior to Orcus and Orcus would thus be forced to yield. I think there is great story potential between all of this. Maybe some new book in the future. :D Of course taking into account what was happening in the backround of all this - Myrkul being slain but avoiding utter destruction with his power transfered and stored in 'Crown of Horns' - Velsharoon seeking this 'item' with motive to become god of necromancy and undead - Orcus being a demon-prince and bitter foe of Demogorgon and Graz'zt - Slaying of Orcus by Drow demi-power Kiransalee and his weakened return to life and his coming to prime plane
Lord Karsus 09-23-06, 12:06 AM	-I suggest that you search the boards for one of the other Resurrect Myrkul threads, and see what other nifty ideas you can extrapolate and filch from them.
Chloramantis 09-23-06, 12:54 AM	That's a pretty sweet idea. Myrkul was awesome! Velsharoon is like Cyric, they both were created to fill a void left by the deaths of two of the greatest evils. Kelemvor is a great god of the Dead, don't get me wrong, but Myrkul could be an awesome god of Undeath. The Crown of Horns is a cool idea? Velsharoon will put the Crown on and Myrkul will burst forth from his undead head!
GothicDan 09-23-06, 02:22 AM	I hate Kelemvor with a fiery passion. He doesn't judge anything at all. Judging implies that he has to actually make a decision between two parties. He's small-minded, too affected by his mortal biases, knows not an ounce about death or negative energy on a cosmological scale, and is a hypocritical, naive, bratty... Err. Ahem. That being said, I loved Myrkul. But he sadly likes being in the Crown of Horns MORE than he liked being a deity, because as a deity, he could rarely directly get his hands dirty while sticking to the rules of 'no direct intervention unless someone treads on your portfolio.' But Jergal was still my favorite deity of the dead. A few other deities of death and/or the dead by alignment - Hel (NE), Hades (NE), Chemosh (NE), Nerull (NE), Jergal (LE), Chronepsis (LN), Osiris (LG), Sehanine Moonbow (CG); the Orcish deity is Evil, the Gnome one is Good I believe... Ultimately, it should be up to how each CULTURE views death that determines what the alignment of the appropriate god "should be." Since religion was dominated primarily by the elite in Egyptian society, its focus was on the afterlife of the nobility - who, naturally, would say that they are true and just (LG). The Elves move on to Arvandor - so their death is something beautiful and liberating (CG). Of course, I think Skall would have made an amazing god of death/the dead, myself. I really think that NE is the most overall "fitting" alignment for such a god, in the "I don't care whether or not you live or die" sort of way. The "passive" NE.
thorchilde 09-23-06, 10:37 AM	In my campaign, Orcus has been luring stalwart worshippers of Myrkul into worshipping him. Thus giving him more divine power, granting spells... Orcus seemed a logical choice giving that he lost alot of his power after being killed. He is "a demon reborn" and is looking for new ways to destroy his oldest and newest rivals. Myrkul was an interesting deity, but I think that there have been enough resurrections of deities in FR. I would support the Velsharoon/Myrkul merger to help Velsharoon gain more followers and power, but for now my PC's have been dealing with the demon prince and his machinations.
Gray Richardson 09-23-06, 01:14 PM	Because of the Morning, Noon, and Dusk cycle of the Sun God in the Realms, Myrkul, who presumably still holds the Dusk Portfolio within the confines of his crown, probably cannot be reborn until Lathander dies. However, since Lathander seems on the verge of initiating a new Dawn Cataclysm, and since that is likely to fall apart on him like the last one, Lathander's end may soon be iminent. Oh, and Amaunator has to be reborn too. Once Amaunator is reborn and Lathander has died, then the door is open for Myrkul to return. I guess theoretically, Myrkul could be reborn before that if he were to give up the Dusk portfolio somehow.
Xavier_of_Cormyr 09-23-06, 01:43 PM	wow, I'm shocked no one has mentioned Velsharoon. Y'know, the lich god with "necromancy, lichdom & undeath" as his portfolio. Read pages 110-111 from Faiths & Pantheons; Velsharoon pretty much has the udnead thing locked up. Having another god of undead is just beating a dead horse. heh, I couldn't resist myself :rimshot:
GothicDan 09-23-06, 03:38 PM	Velsharoon's been mentioned many times. And I don't think that Myrkul can hold the "Dusk" portfolio while he's in the Crown, otherwise, with every Dusk that passes, he would gain a small bit of divine power, and would be at least DvR 0. I'd be pretty upset if Lathander went. He's actually one of my favorite deities.
Gray Richardson 09-23-06, 04:23 PM	Possibly. But no one else holds the Dusk portfolio at present. My theory is that Myrkul still has it. But I could certainly be wrong. It's just a theory. If he does still have it, then it leaves room for Myrkul to come back as a god some day... Though frankly, I am surprised that Cyric isn't going after the Dusk portfolio. He is named the Dark Sun after all. I would think a chance to be tied into the tripartite sun-deity would be quite a feather in his cap. But then again, maybe he can't go after it until some god takes up the portfolio of the Sun. Either Amaunator has to be reborn, or some god like Horus-Re has to step in and fill the shoes of the High Sun aspect, before Dusk can come up for grabs.
The Ubbergeek 09-23-06, 04:39 PM	Gothic, see it that way - Myrkul is interesting, but a bit... stereotypical. I mean, are not you tired of all those 'gyargh, I am the evil god of death, deads and undeads?!?' ? Kelemvor is not perfect, but I think he should be given some love. He is at least soemthing different - a god of death/dead/whatever who is peacefull, the natural order of things, impartial and is against undeath. Death is, after all, a part of nature and it's order. He suits this well.
Lord Karsus 09-23-06, 07:12 PM	I'd be pretty upset if Lathander went. He's actually one of my favorite deities. -It's because he is so beautiful, isn't it? ;) :)
GothicDan 09-24-06, 12:00 AM	Gothic, see it that way - Myrkul is interesting, but a bit... stereotypical. I mean, are not you tired of all those 'gyargh, I am the evil god of death, deads and undeads?!?' ? A) Being a person who is friendly and loves those close to him is also pretty stereotypical, but that doesn't mean one should stop trying to be that way just to be different. Stereotypes don't really bother me all that much, as long as I personally like them. B) Myrkul was never described in the way you're describing him. For instance, I showed the F&A section on Myrkul to a DM of mine, who had never before played in FR, and he said that he liked him a lot more than Nerull. Myrkul, as I pointed out, was more the "passive" Neutral Evil than the "Rawr I kill things, dead death evil" like Nerull is. Kelemvor is not perfect, but I think he should be given some love. He is at least soemthing different - a god of death/dead/whatever who is peacefull, the natural order of things, impartial and is against undeath. Undead occur naturally, and the gods dictate what is really "natural" outside of whatever already-existent planar effects might be in place already. And you can't be both "impartial" and "against undeath." The two don't mix. And no, he's NOT different. As I pointed out, there are several Good (and at least one Neutral) deity of death out there, that were around long before Kelemvor. However, they're not so incredibly stupid or hypocritical. Death is, after all, a part of nature and it's order. He suits this well. In FR, there's really not much of a definition of what's "natural." Ed makes this pretty clear in at least two replies that I can recall, one of which details the fact that, in FR, undead can exist totally off of magical energy itself, and not have to resort to utilizing negative energy. To clergy of Shar, the presence of light may seem unnatural - and it is, in large part, since before Selune dipped into the Elemental Plane of Fire, there was no sun. The "natural" argument makes absolutely no sense, because "naturally" Realmspace is nothing but a swirling void of darkness. Remember, this is FR - not real life. The Etruscans and the Egyptians thought that undead spirits were quite "natural," anyway.
GothicDan 09-24-06, 12:01 AM	-It's because he is so beautiful, isn't it? One reason, yes. ;)
Ironferret 09-24-06, 03:26 AM	Yes your idea is very good and I am also working on something. The One and only Bane plays a big part in it and his plot to get revenge on AO for all the pain he caused The lord of darkness during the Times of Trouble. A part of it is gaining control of the crown, a vial of water from under the Boareskyr Bridge, and a few other odds and ends. The complete resurrection of Myrkul and Bhaal is essential in his plans and it also will take a very long time. Time means nothing to him ,oh and if a few lesser Godlings have to fall then so be it. Keep it up like I said its a good idea THE DEAD THREE must return. I miss the old days:) I have not decides to make this epic adventure for evil or good. The God of Death or The undead whatever I would like to see him back
Finellach 09-24-06, 10:31 AM	Heh...nice to see that many of you like this proposition. Just proves what I thought - that Myrkul is liked. Personally I don't have a much of an opinion on Kelemvor...it's not as if 'I don't like him', it's more that I am indifferent to him. On the other side it makes sense to me that he is neutral as god of death. But this has left the void for evil part of death, the undead, etc. This is where Myrkul comes in and of coure Velsharoon....or together if they fuse somehow. In short I really think this is a great and interesting idea.
The Ubbergeek 09-24-06, 12:44 PM	Personaly, I'd prefer to ressurect the Great Corruptor, the Rotting One - Moander. That was one freaky, unusual god.
Lord Karsus 09-24-06, 05:33 PM	-I'd prefer that someone reunite my parts, actually. Don't know if I'd retain any lingering divinity, but it sure would be nice to be whole..:rolleyes:
Manshoon13 09-24-06, 08:22 PM	In my campaign the Zulkir of necromancy (Wizards of Thay) find the crown of thorns. He battled Velsharoon and he won, he took the Velsharoon's portfolio. I also like the idea of having Velsharoon find it.
Ironferret 09-26-06, 09:25 PM	:drool: Lathander is off his rocker you know almost tearing the world to shreds during his little remake the pantheon in my own image rant. Oh what was it The DAWN Apocalypse or something well he is on of the most egoistical god out their.:D I mean the worst Bane and Myrkul have done were swipe the Tablets of Fate and in turn get AO :headexplo
Ironferret 09-26-06, 09:33 PM	Manshoon13 thats cool I like change and the thought of a RED WIZARD with the job makes me:D . HAHAHA I love it do you mean ol' Tam that's great he's perfect.:D
Apostate 10-04-06, 06:37 PM	Manshoon13 thats cool I like change and the thought of a RED WIZARD with the job makes me:D . HAHAHA I love it do you mean ol' Tam that's great he's perfect.:D Actually, I believe that Velsharoon was one of Szass Tam's greatest rivals for the seat of Zulkir, so a Red Wizard already has the "job". :)
Lord Karsus 10-04-06, 06:45 PM	Actually, I believe that Velsharoon was one of Szass Tam's greatest rivals for the seat of Zulkir, so a Red Wizard already has the "job". :) -Szazz Tam also beat the pants off of the mortal Velsharoon.