Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jhilahd 06-12-06, 09:53 PM	Does anyone know how this compares to the old Moonsea sourceboom from TSR? I absolutely love that region, and this might be the book that brings me back to the Realms. Other than the previews online, how much info is provided for each city/area? Thanks in advance. Jhilahd
GothicDan 06-12-06, 11:02 PM	It's a bunch of adventures - it's not an actual sourcebook/regional book at all. This has many of us disappointed - some more vocally than others. ;)
Xdef9lightb 06-12-06, 11:11 PM	This is sad day. I loved the regional sourcebooks that provided a base of information to build on. How are the adventures;Did a computer randomly write the adventures I don't know.
GothicDan 06-12-06, 11:12 PM	There are basically 37 mini-adventures "loosely" linked to some sites and cities of the region. There's another thread on this same forum discussing this.. It's the thread right under this one.
Old Sage 06-13-06, 12:28 AM	You can learn more about the contents of MotM and the thoughts of some of the writers involved with it... over at Candlekeep. See this scroll:- http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5107&whichpage=1
Gray Richardson 06-13-06, 08:41 AM	It is the nature of many on this board to complain vocally about things they haven't even seen yet. Don't listen to them until you have checked out the book for yourself. Mysteries of the Moonsea is likely to have a ton of source material in it, some of it embedded in the adventures and I expect that much of the source material will be presented in standard format that frames the adventures. I halfway expect that the source material may be on par with other books, just that the prestige classes and other extraneous material will be replaced with copious adventures instead. Yes, it is a hybrid sourcebook/adventure book. But that is in the fine tradition of many 2e books. I, for one, expect the book may turn out to surprise everyone with how good it is. Give this book a chance and it may just surprise you! :)
Davidw 06-13-06, 08:58 AM	Well said. Half the people on this forum seem to have written the book of as drivel before it's even been released. Maybe it will be drivel, but it's difficult to say before you actually have a look at it.
GothicDan 06-13-06, 03:32 PM	If one is truly in charge of one's mental faculties, pre-conceived notions won't affect one's post-conceived notions after looking at a product. Of course, in my case, I just don't like premade adventures, so I feel my opinion is pretty founded whether or not I look at the book. ;)
Jhilahd 06-13-06, 03:51 PM	Ok. I was just curious about more information concerning this product, not to stir up a the bee's nest. I'll just have to wait til it comes out to decide then. Thanks, Jhilahd
dav 06-13-06, 04:00 PM	^ lol Actually if one is truly in charge of one's mental faculties, one will wait until he or she has examined the material to form an actual informed opinion. If one's preconcieved notions cannot be affected by looking at a product that he or she did not have prior access to then one has demonstrated an inability think beyond ones own assumptions. If you don't like premade adventures, thats fine. You don't have too. But maybe someday you'll run across one that will appeal to you. You can say that will never happen, and it may not, but it may as well. For my part, the book comes out today, when I'm off work I'll stop by the store and look at it. I'm not partial to adventures myself, and I prefer more fluff. But I won't decide that I don't like it until I've seen it and can form that opinion with something other than assumed preconceptions.
Karsus the Mad 06-13-06, 06:24 PM	It is the nature of many on this board to complain vocally about things they haven't even seen yet. Don't listen to them until you have checked out the book for yourself. Yay! You said it more nicely than I could have. I love you now:P Actually if one is truly in charge of one's mental faculties, one will wait until he or she has examined the material to form an actual informed opinion. If one's preconcieved notions cannot be affected by looking at a product that he or she did not have prior access to then one has demonstrated an inability think beyond ones own assumptions. Oh, oh oh! I love you to! :D
GothicDan 06-13-06, 07:20 PM	Actually if one is truly in charge of one's mental faculties, one will wait until he or she has examined the material to form an actual informed opinion. That's your opinion, not a measurement of the validity of one's intellect or psyche. My statement was more an analysis of psychological capability (the control of the super ego over the id). One's super ego can be completely in control in two different individuals and come to radically different opinions. Good try, though! But maybe someday you'll run across one that will appeal to you. You can say that will never happen, and it may not, but it may as well. No, you don't understand.. I don't like them at all. As in, I don't like the idea of them, no matter how well they're written, because I don't actually play the game. I just learn the lore.
Dark Wizard 06-13-06, 09:23 PM	That's an odd statement to make.
GothicDan 06-14-06, 12:24 AM	Which one? About me not playing the game or something/someone else..?
WhrenKehrsyn 06-14-06, 12:51 AM	That's your opinion, not a measurement of the validity of one's intellect or psyche. My statement was more an analysis of psychological capability (the control of the super ego over the id). One's super ego can be completely in control in two different individuals and come to radically different opinions. Do you even know what youre talking about? Psychoanalytic theories about the subconcious were related to morality and unrecognized internal conflict, not mental strength. Youre trying to link these extremely vague concepts with extremely vaguely presented concepts of openmindedness and intelligence. For that matter, psychoanalytic theory has long since been deemed quakcery by most psychologists. However I tend to agree more with GD in regards to this No, you don't understand.. I don't like them at all. As in, I don't like the idea of them, no matter how well they're written, because I don't actually play the game. I just learn the lore. If I dont like something Im likely to keep not liking it. Sure theres a chance I may like one somewhere down the line, but its doubtful at best.
dav 06-14-06, 12:59 AM	^ Thank you. That's all true, but letting assumed preconceptions dictate your feelings towards something and ignoring the chance to view the material and form an informed opinion is absurd.
GothicDan 06-14-06, 01:09 AM	Do you even know what youre talking about? Psychoanalytic theories about the subconcious were related to morality and unrecognized internal conflict, not mental strength. My sister's a psychologist, my Aunt works in Special Education (of autistic children in particular), I regularly see a neurologist, and I've had a few psychology classes. I've also read the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual of Mental Disorders for fun some nights. For that matter, psychoanalytic theory has long since been deemed quakcery by most psychologists. I guess that's why psychologists don't use it. And note that a lot of neurologists are starting to deem much psychological theory to be quackery, too. ;)O
GothicDan 06-14-06, 01:12 AM	That's all true, but letting assumed preconceptions dictate your feelings towards something and ignoring the chance to view the material and form an informed opinion is absurd. I'm not going to keep trying to eat seafood when I already know it's made me vomit for the past 21 years of my life.
Dark Wizard 06-14-06, 02:50 AM	I was referring to the very line others have pointed out. That statement just seemed very broad, that's all.
WhrenKehrsyn 06-14-06, 03:03 AM	My sister's a psychologist, my Aunt works in Special Education (of autistic children in particular), I regularly see a neurologist, and I've had a few psychology classes. I've also read the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual of Mental Disorders for fun some nights. Most of that doesnt have an application to psychoanalysis, which is what you were trying to use in your previous post. In fact DSM is nothing more than a symptomology manual, as the name suggests. I'm not going to keep trying to eat seafood when I already know it's made me vomit for the past 21 years of my life. For me its onions.
DraconsNighthawk 06-14-06, 10:33 AM	:eek: :eek: Jebus, all this over a simple question on the book. It's a decent book from what I read so far. Doesn't have much information, as it just a series of loosly based adventure hooks. I say hooks mostly because you as the DM have to hook them all together. They are very loosely connected, and most of the descrions are lacking, all the better for you to decide what they look like or rooms look like. But its decent to understand the politics and way peoiple act in the Moonsea.
Jhilahd 06-14-06, 10:45 AM	Thanks. What about maps? Y'know, regional, city, political. Are there updated ones for the current timeline? Thanks again.
DraconsNighthawk 06-14-06, 11:00 AM	The maps are mostly of the adventures your on. (Inn's, caves, warehouse etc). A few art photos of the four cities, they talk about the town, government and law, politics, crime, defenses, trade, adventurers, relgion and city locations in that order. Followed by npcs in the cities. There are four cities detailed, Melvaunt, Hillsfar, Mulmaster, and Zhentil keep, and a little of north/east/west/south.
GothicDan 06-14-06, 03:27 PM	Most of that doesnt have an application to psychoanalysis, which is what you were trying to use in your previous post. In fact DSM is a symptomology manual, as the name suggests. Me referencing the super ego and the id are hypotheses of Freud, who was a Psychologist. I'm not seeing where I'm going wrong, here. Psychiatrists tend to psychoanalyze people from a more separated point of view, and can proscribe drugs, whereas psychologists tend to be a little more clinical and cannot proscribe drugs. I'm not sure where my argument is particularly flawed. And my Psychology teacher informed us that the power of one's intellectual strength was often represented as the Superego (the ability to put logical thought first over base instinct - which is what I'm talking about, since it's one's INSTINCT to dislike something due to a preconceived notion, but if one can do so, they do not necessarily HAVE to feel that way - they can start with a 'clean slate'). This interested me in particular (I'm a big fan of the Ubermensch), and I had a discussion with her about it after class.
GothicDan 06-14-06, 03:32 PM	Now, relating more to the OP's question... Does anyone know approximately how much detail is given to the above information regarding the cities and regions? How many pages?
WhrenKehrsyn 06-14-06, 04:29 PM	I'm not sure where my argument is particularly flawed. Thats fairly obvious. A better understanding of the subject matter would help you figure it out. The fact that you had to have a talk with your psych teacher, indicating you are in an entry level psych course, no one else even talks about Freud except the really really advanced stuff, shows how little you know about the matter. Your arguements are extrememly roundabout, you cited your relations in psych industries as an indicator of your knowledge on the subject, then you promptly call it bunk. The afterwards cite your discussion with your teacher, after having called it all bunk. So why did you even mention all that in the first place? Incidentally Im aware of the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist. Its not even relevent in any way shape or form to anything discussed here. This is like beating my head on a wall. Youre right, lets drop this and move on to the OPs question. Does anyone know approximately how much detail is given to the above information regarding the cities and regions? How many pages? Not nearly as much as I would like. Hillsfar has about 10 pages dedicated to it, in the style of the cities in the regional books, followed by almost 30 pages, give or take, of NPCs, adventure hooks (I wouldnt call them adventures, theyre more like hooks and make a good deal of assumptions about the PCS), and BBEG hideouts. All three other chapters are about the same. The introduction is 6 pages. Much of the fluff/lore is stuff weve seen already. Each section that I considered part of the fluff/lore portion is broken down into the categories of: Geographical Overview, The Campaign in X, X name, Government and Law, Politics, Crime, Defenses, Trade, Adventures, Religion, City Locations, Villians of X, and Rumors in X. All of this is covered in ten pages mind you. Introduction: Pages 1-6 Melvaunt and the North: Pages 8-42 (Only 8-17 are the fluff/lore) Hillsfar and the South: Pages 45-84 (45-56 are the fluff/lore) Mulmaster and the East: Pages 88-119 (88-97 are the fluff/lore) Zhentil Keep and the West: Pages 122-158 (122-132 are the fluff/lore)
GothicDan 06-14-06, 04:36 PM	Thats fairly obvious. A better understanding of the subject matter would help you figure it out. The fact that you had to have a talk with your psych teacher, indicating you are in an entry level psych course, no one else even talks about Freud except the really really advanced stuff, shows how little you know about the matter. I'm amused that you keep pointing out how ignorant I am with no references or proof on your own. And I took that psych course two years ago. So why did you even mention all that in the first place? To respond to you. I made a simple postulate, defending my own point of view, and you turned it into a huge argument... Which was quite nontopical. But I'm shutting up about this now. If you want, we can continue the discussion in PMs. Not nearly as much as I would like. Hillsfar has about 10 pages dedicated to it, in the style of the cities in the regional books, followed by almost 30 pages, give or take, of NPCs, adventure hooks (I wouldnt call them adventures, theyre more like hooks and make a good deal of assumptions about the PCS), and BBEG hideouts. All three other chapters are about the same. The introduction is 6 pages. Much of the fluff/lore is stuff weve seen already. Each section that I considered part of the fluff/lore portion is broken down into the categories of: Geographical Overview, The Campaign in X, X name, Government and Law, Politics, Crime, Defenses, Trade, Adventures, Religion, City Locations, Villians of X, and Rumors in X. All of this is covered in ten pages mind you. Introduction: Pages 1-6 Melvaunt and the North: Pages 8-42 (Only 8-17 are the fluff/lore) Hillsfar and the South: Pages 45-84 (45-56 are the fluff/lore) Mulmaster and the East: Pages 88-119 (88-97 are the fluff/lore) Zhentil Keep and the West: Pages 122-158 (122-132 are the fluff/lore) I see that I had no reason to feel I should change my views about this book, then. :) Thanks for taking out the time to write out the info. anyway.
WhrenKehrsyn 06-14-06, 04:52 PM	I'm amused that you keep pointing out how ignorant I am with no references or proof on your own. Im amused you continue to argue subjects that you have a rudimentary knowledge of and think that using terminology and citing texts that have no relevance to your arguement but are attached to the field makes your arguements right. Incidentally I did point out in every one of my posts actual information and reasoning. If you choose not to read it thats not my problem. This is my last post on this subject. I see that I had no reason to feel I should change my views about this book, then. Thanks for taking out the time to write out the info. anyway. Youre welcome =0)
GothicDan 06-14-06, 04:57 PM	Whren, I'll contact you later in private. On with the thread!
Stonehinge 06-14-06, 07:11 PM	I bought the book for info on the region and have read about half of it so far. I find that the book provides info on 4 cities with some adventures to go with them. As far as furthering my knowledge of the region, the book doesn't help much with the exception of the cities and bits and pieces of info in the adventures. I would have like to have seen more lore and less of the adventures surely there has been some events between whats written in the FRCS and MoM. Including a section on the state of the region would have been helpful. As far as the adventures go, I never liked canned adventures which is why I have always liked the plots and rumors in the other books that way PC's would never know what was coming. Overall, compared to the other regional books MoM ranks at the bottom for me.
BrianCritchley 06-14-06, 10:08 PM	sounds like the over all prognosis is that this book is good for 3e players who lack any of the 2E stuff, but the 2E crowd can proably skip it then?
Razz 06-16-06, 01:51 PM	Does anyone know how this compares to the old Moonsea sourceboom from TSR? I absolutely love that region, and this might be the book that brings me back to the Realms. Other than the previews online, how much info is provided for each city/area? Thanks in advance. Jhilahd If you're looking for a lot of information on this region, don't count on it with this book. I have read through it by going to the bookstore several times and reading a little each time. It's just a few pages on each of the cities, a few notable NPCs, and a bunch of mini-quests...hardly worth buying unless you happen to run a campaign in the Moonsea and happen to DM a low-level group you want to rush to 18th level ASAP. The title of the book is the most amazing thing about it. Mysteries of the Moonsea was a perfect title---the Moonsea areas such as Tortured Land and The Ride, for example, will forever be a mystery. ;) BTW, does anyone know what happened to the thread (well, my thread I should say) "So Regional books no longer offer...FR Lore?" It's, well, gone. It's not even locked or anything, just gone. Did someone offend someone else or something? I really don't remember the thread being all that heated, in fact it sort of toned down towards the end.
WhrenKehrsyn 06-16-06, 02:03 PM	Something I forgot to mention earlier. If youve read The Final Gate, prepare to be utterly confused by the Hillsfar section of this book. WotC should really consider letting designers talk to novelists writing for the same area so theres not huge consistancy errors like this.
Razz 06-16-06, 02:09 PM	Something I forgot to mention earlier. If youve read The Final Gate, prepare to be utterly confused by the Hillsfar section of this book. WotC should really consider letting designers talk to novelists writing for the same area so theres not huge consistancy errors like this. Inconsistency between the novels and the game have been going on for years. Good example is, well, Drizz't has spell resistance and ranger spells in-game (even at the time of his creation Rangers casted spells) but it's not accounted for in the novels...ever! Novel authors just have this tendency to "break the rules", which is fine but they seem to do it just way too often for my tastes. From abilities monsters should have but don't utilize to the lack of paladins with special mounts and holy power (or lack of paladins in general in novels apparently) to every wizard possessing just the right spell at just the right time and just the right version of the spell in question. You can bring it to their attention and they'll just nod and look away, mumbling some excuse or another. Praise be the FR author that goes "by the books" so to speak, with his/her writing.
WhrenKehrsyn 06-16-06, 02:43 PM	Im aware of that. Your Drizzt example is easy enough to explain away though, maybe he just doesnt use his spells. This isnt a mechanical inconsistency though. Nor is it a minor retcon like changing a characters subrace. It is a difference in the politics and leadership in the area, and a huge discrepancy. Its an 'Events from which source are canon?' sort of inconsistency.
BobROE 06-16-06, 02:52 PM	Something I forgot to mention earlier. If youve read The Final Gate, prepare to be utterly confused by the Hillsfar section of this book. WotC should really consider letting designers talk to novelists writing for the same area so theres not huge consistancy errors like this. Apparently (and Note I haven't read Final Gate or Mysteries of the Moonsea) MotM is set in 1373 (and says so somewhere), while FG is in 1374. So it's not actually an inconsistancy.
BrianCritchley 06-16-06, 04:57 PM	Apparently (and Note I haven't read Final Gate or Mysteries of the Moonsea) MotM is set in 1373 (and says so somewhere), while FG is in 1374. So it's not actually an inconsistancy. can't find the date in MOM but this seems a logical and acceptable expliantion.