Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tobus Neth 07-03-06, 11:43 PM	Worst forgotten realms Book EVER. If this is your so called new approach to doing source books for FR, You lost me, the book is hollow, weak and altogether a worthless piece of junk. For the people that wrote the book, seems they just copied from 2nd edition sources for the very little of information contain within. The adventures are yarns with nothing to them, any Dm whom ran these adventures would loose his players to a fly on wall. I simply put the book back on the shelf at borders and left. The Silver Marches>excellent book perhaps the best included a map of Marches blown up. Unapproachable East> Very good; however it lacked a poster map and people like the blown up maps.(Maps inside okay) Shining South>Good>also no poster map. This is what people want in a campaign source book, please stop making crap like this. Very angry FR fan. perhaps you can try again or make a bunch of web enhancements for it. or do another book.> Shores of the Moonsea is a good title.
Duismante 07-03-06, 11:59 PM	I was under the impression that it was supposed to be an adventure arc not a source book.
bitter thorn 07-04-06, 12:55 AM	Was MoM the "regional source book" for the year?
GothicDan 07-04-06, 12:55 AM	Much of the OP's comments were about the adventures.
Brenigin 07-04-06, 02:34 AM	This is what people want in a campaign source book, please stop making crap like this. Tobus Neth: Please don't imply you speak for all FR fans. I like the book a great deal, and am looking forward to incorporating it into my campaign.
AGFA 07-04-06, 04:20 AM	Tobus Neth: Please don't imply you speak for all FR fans. I like the book a great deal, and am looking forward to incorporating it into my campaign. I cannot imagine how you can like a regional book with adventures in it? You surely must agree that its a waste of space to put 34 adventures in a regional book? Maybe you could try to convince me why regional sourcebooks should have 30+ adventures in it instead of usefull information about region? I'm looking forward to your arguments :)
bitter thorn 07-04-06, 07:47 AM	I think it's more about what is useful to him personally, and that's cool. I'm just put out that this seems to have replaced the regional sourcebook for the year.
Davidw 07-04-06, 08:37 AM	I'm not quite sure why people seem to be getting so het up about this. Yes, it's hardly a masterpiece and yes, it doesn't have much in the way of lore in it, but what's there isn't half as bad as people are making out.
Sexybeast 07-04-06, 12:27 PM	Actually i have to agree with the OP. I scrolled through the book and put it back on the shelf. Nothing but a rehash of a paperback sourcebook printed out some 15 years ago + some weak adventures. At twice the price of the original sourcebook. Same with Power of Faerun, which had some decent material in it but frankly when they said I should consult some other D&D book (not the Players Handbook or DM's Guide mind you) on how to aquire ranks etc I was turned off right there cause frankly, that is why I would want to buy that book anyway. I cam away from that book disappointed because I could easily come up with better and more creative ideas on Nobility, Military Rank, and Mechantry that what was pesented. Warerdeep was ok. Better than the two mentioned above. But, much of it was rehashed from a couple of old sources as well, with a bit of updating but not much. Still wasn't worth the price IMO. Thinking about it the last FR gaming book I have bought was...Lost Empires? Everything lately has been rather bland and not worth the price. It is almost as if the authors are intentionally printing out bad material in order to get us to buy Eberron, a campaign I disliked from the concept and would never invest a dime in. Sorry about the negativity, I am just really disappointed with the material coming out of the WOC Forgotten Realms Department lately. If you want to ban me for this I understand, I'll go back to Candlekeep with everyone else who once made this board exciting.
Brenigin 07-04-06, 03:31 PM	I cannot imagine how you can like a regional book with adventures in it? You surely must agree that its a waste of space to put 34 adventures in a regional book? Maybe you could try to convince me why regional sourcebooks should have 30+ adventures in it instead of usefull information about region? I'm looking forward to your arguments :) Sorry to let you down, but arguing with the immovable isn't a worthwhile use of my time. I like the book and its format - you don't. I can lay out my reasons why, but you'll still disagree. So - on with something else.
Herr Doktor 07-04-06, 04:50 PM	I definetly prefer the setup of the other regional sourcebooks to this one, but, I don't find this one to be all that bad truely. I plan to use the book as it's intended to be used, fitting Son's of Gruumsh into the mix, and running a campaign made up of mostly premade adventure sites and NPCs (I did like the villains tidbits for each city). This'll give me a lot more freetime to prepare for my next campaign, since Mysteries needs only minimal setup beyond what's provided (though at the end it seems to require a lot more work, i.e. section on the Citadel of the Raven).
baitmask 07-04-06, 06:44 PM	personally, i adore the MoM! i mean, just look at all those maps on the gallery page! there's tons of great locations there. so uh....who needs a regional supplemental when all we're looking for are NPCs and maps? half the work was already posted as the maps are free for download. as to the NPCs, i'm sure there are enough to make it easy to fill out a moonsea campaign. and since i hate published adventures, i guess i'll put this book on the list of things i want other people to buy me, since i wont spend my own money on it. Let's see...from the rundown i've read, the reviews i've checked out, and the ranting of one wacked out poster or more....yeah. this book had better not be on the list of "More products like this to come from WOTC " i'd like more supplements like Unapproachable East. that book blows Silver Marches out of the water...by virtue of being Hardbound. *snicker* and with all the regional updates to a place like thay, which already had a second edition boxed set. i'd love to see more revamps to regions that have had second edition boxed sets. Lands of Intregue come to mind. As much information has been printed in nearby books, like FRCS and Races and Players Guide, there's just nothing like a book published with cities, sites, lore, and magic inherent to the realm. 30+ adventures in a source book? waste of 30 bucks to a person looking for source material. huge boon to DMs without a heck of prep time in a week. i can see more books like this being kewl, but only if they're supplemental accessories to a region, and not if they're presented as the regional sourcebook. MoM disappoints me to the point where i'll let someone else add it to my collection for the holidays. -Baity
GothicDan 07-04-06, 07:29 PM	Sometimes I really think I was the only person not impressed by unapproachable east... And I liked Silver Marches a whole lot more.
BobROE 07-04-06, 10:13 PM	Sometimes I really think I was the only person not impressed by unapproachable east... And I liked Silver Marches a whole lot more. I'll agree with that, I find the organization of Silver Marches a little confusing, but otherwise.... And the PrCs are more interesting in UE I think.
Rasmus 07-05-06, 04:56 AM	As I am starting a Moonsea campaign I was really excited about MoM, and I didn't even mind that there woulde be a lot of adventures in it. Some of the adventures can be a good inspiration, and there is useful info in the book, especially when you - like me - don't own any 2nd ed. FR. BUT: Im also very dissapointed with many of the adventures. What is up with ALL these dungeons. There are hardly any of the 30+ adventures that basically isnt a dungeon! And most of them arent very imaginative either. When I think of the Temple of Bane in Zhentil Keep, it isn't 8 rooms including a couple of personal chambers for Fzoul. It is probably THE power centre in the Moonsea. It should be dangerous, grand, spooky, dark, evil and threathning. Not a place the size of an average village church, which about as much 'cool factor'. Secondly, I think it is a mistake making a book like that, and not even describing Phlan, Thentia, Yulash and Elventree in a bit more detail than the FRCS.
bitter thorn 07-05-06, 04:57 AM	Sometimes I really think I was the only person not impressed by unapproachable east... And I liked Silver Marches a whole lot more. Ditto. I love Silver Marches and PoF.
Kaewin 07-05-06, 09:16 AM	Personaly I was very disappointed. I bought it to sift through the dross to find so gold but no such luck. I read through to the Mulmaster entry and grew disgust and put the book down. I disliked the lack of real hard info and the adventure paths they had were forced and had a lot of suppistion that your players would follow the weak plot or the really poor clues. Overall it was a very trying experance.
Kid SixXx 07-05-06, 11:14 AM	MoM disappoints me to the point where i'll let someone else add it to my collection for the holidays. I was under the impression that it was supposed to be an adventure arc not a source book. What Duismante said. MoM was designed to be used off of the shelf instead of being read and stuffed into a "collection." Quote from the OP: perhaps you can try again or make a bunch of web enhancements for it. That way you'd get an adventure path that you might use immediately and free regional info for your USD $30 (trips to the WoTC website to download Web Enhancements cost absolutely nothing), instead of just regional info in a book that you'll probably shelve & forget about as soon as you review the contents. Sounds like a good deal to me.
Teh_username 07-05-06, 07:07 PM	That way you'd get an adventure path that you might use immediately and free regional info for your USD $30 (trips to the WoTC website to download Web Enhancements cost absolutely nothing), instead of just regional info in a book that you'll probably shelve & forget about as soon as you review the contents. Sounds like a good deal to me. Maybe to you. I, on the other hand, use regional sourcebooks far more often that I ever will adventures. In the two FR games I've played in since I got back into the game, I've used Underdark and Unapproachable East heavily, while an adventure works once for any specific gaming group (if that; not every adventure gets used, remember). I think much of the user-base agrees with me. Not that I'm particularly against the format, mind you - just the application. Like I've said in another thread or three, the MoM format would work perfectly if it covered a single large city or group of towns in detail, with a mess of adventures and hooks throughout. Menzoberranzan, Amn, Undrek'thoz, even the Ten Towns.
eigch 07-05-06, 11:27 PM	I love the Moonsea book. I am a DM with almost no prep time so the pre-made adventures are great. My main problem with premade adventures is that you have to railroad the characters into them. With this book, there are tons of mini quests in every town. You can just turn the PC's loose on the town and they will find thier own adventure. I've always wanted to run a really open-ended campaign like this, but rarely have the time to do it. Thanks WOTC!
GothicDan 07-05-06, 11:30 PM	So, the question is... Do more people want lore or do they just want to play a simple, non-lore based D&D game? The FR setting has been detailed first and foremost for lore and history, as a setting for a play, so to speak, not the play itself.
eigch 07-06-06, 12:20 AM	I personally want to play D&D with lore placed seamlessly in the game to suck me into the gaming experience and make it feel like a living breathing world. You can give me librarys of lore but that doesn't mean a DM will know how to use it in a game meaningfully and seamlessly.
GothicDan 07-06-06, 12:25 AM	I personally want to play D&D with lore placed seamlessly in the game to suck me into the gaming experience and make it feel like a living breathing world. I think, theoretically, that's what most of us want. Sadly, I've yet to see any products that really do this. :( You can give me librarys of lore but that doesn't mean a DM will know how to use it in a game meaningfully and seamlessly. No, but it will allow him to answer questions the players might have. And players have LOTS of questions. Just look at these boards, for example.
yarethon 07-06-06, 12:58 AM	MoM is not a great book. The other regional books are much better, but this book is not that bad. I have no complains about 30 adventures on a book.. if it comes as a plus to the regular stuff that are supposed to be in a regional book. Another thing.. it is too short... it seems almost as if it was written on a hurry... The texts are just too brief.
cgarsmokr 07-06-06, 01:24 AM	Sometimes I really think I was the only person not impressed by unapproachable east... And I liked Silver Marches a whole lot more. You may be the only one who didn't like it lol. I for one thought it was a great sorcebook.
cgarsmokr 07-06-06, 01:25 AM	I'll agree with that, I find the organization of Silver Marches a little confusing, but otherwise.... And the PrCs are more interesting in UE I think. The only problem I had with Silver Marches was the fact that it was a softcover.
cgarsmokr 07-06-06, 01:27 AM	So, the question is... Do more people want lore or do they just want to play a simple, non-lore based D&D game? The FR setting has been detailed first and foremost for lore and history, as a setting for a play, so to speak, not the play itself. Lore, lore and more lore!!!
Kaewin 07-06-06, 09:42 PM	Dan I would have to go with the lore, thats why I bought MOM in the first places. I really hope this isn't the new format.
Lord Karsus 07-06-06, 11:30 PM	Dan I would have to go with the lore, thats why I bought MOM in the first places. I really hope this isn't the new format. -I believe that it was stated somewhere by someone that the "Regional-Adventure" was the new format, for the time being. Of course, if this format fails disasterously, things will change. I've yet to even see MoM at a bookstore (The local Barnes & Noble has a really crappy fantasy section)...
BrianCritchley 07-06-06, 11:44 PM	I think MoM isn't something we should see a lot of, but I think this kinda product as an example of how you can tie lore together for an adventure has it's place.
Xzamuel 07-07-06, 03:45 PM	I kind of agree. Being a bit of an idiot, I buy the sourcebooks mostly to just read through, playing rarely. Up until Mysteries of the Moonsea they've actually made pretty good reading like this. However, I was a bit disappointed when I got it for my birthday to find it was just another City of the Spider Queen. I really hope the next regional suppliment goes back to the older format.
Patrakis 07-07-06, 08:32 PM	I have all the lore i need with the 2E stuff....Give me more adventures...more MOM... But that's just me:) Pat
David E 07-09-06, 03:56 AM	I kind of agree. Being a bit of an idiot, I buy the sourcebooks mostly to just read through, playing rarely. Up until Mysteries of the Moonsea they've actually made pretty good reading like this. However, I was a bit disappointed when I got it for my birthday to find it was just another City of the Spider Queen. I really hope the next regional suppliment goes back to the older format. That is EXACTLY the same reason I buy the books. Although I think the book is okay, a bunch of adventures doesn't really make very interesting reading. I am also one of the FR fans who has no prior knowledge of 2nd ed. FR information, so some rehashing is totally fine with me.
Patrakis 07-09-06, 08:25 AM	For those that buy the FR books JUST for a good read. While i respect your choices, i hope you can understand that D&D is a game and the FR setting i mainly oriented, i would hope, to people that actually play the game. That day that wizards decided that sourcebooks and adventures are targeted to people that just read them and not use them in play will be a sad day indeed. Pat
Xzamuel 07-09-06, 09:17 AM	I definately understand those sentiments, I have a large collection of RPGs in general, not just FR material (of which I do have a lot of 2nd ed stuff) But I think you can get a good balance of both between usable adventure material and stuff that makes a good read in any RPG book. Volo's guides have an excellent balance for this sort of thing for example; Plenty of adventure hooks and useable info, but also great fun to read. 3e stuff tends to lack that 'personal touch' but can still be fun to look through.
Manic Man 07-10-06, 05:26 AM	I would agress that the book is useless. The adventures are extremely short and disjointed. If i had to spent the time to string them together into a coherent (if short) adventure, i might as well get RotTEE, CotSQ, or other real adventures. As a source book it sucks like nothing. Where's the historical update on what happened to the area? Where's Yulash, Phlan, Thentia, not to mention the smaller or abandoned settlements. What exactly is Ironfang Keep (thought it would have shed some light but nothing). What about Thar? The Ride? I had even hoped something on places never described but was shown on the old 1e/2e FRCS maps like the Sunrise Mountains, The Frozen Forest, etc. Take the old 2e " The Moonsea" supplement with the cover of a guy fighting a soldier with a bread stick and fork, and compare it to this. Absolutely no comparison. As an adventure it has failed. As a source book it has failed. So what exactly is it trying to acheive?
Patrakis 07-10-06, 07:51 PM	Personaly, it adresses exactly what i'm looking for in an adventure. Not too directive with just enough information to let the pc pick and choose where they want to go. I can see these little mini quest get sprickled in an onlgoing campaign too since they are not Toril shattering. all in all, an excellent design in my opinion. I agree though, that if this book is your only source for material on the moonsea, you are left a little dry. But i never expected it to be neither a sourcebook or a complete and close adventure. It's an hybrid and as an hybrid, like the bard in the D&D game, it isn't extremely good an one specific thing but is pretty good at many things. Of course, not everyone likes to play a bard :) Pat
GothicDan 07-10-06, 07:56 PM	So it's average at everything, and good at nothing. In the end, that averages out to bad. ;)
bitter thorn 07-11-06, 02:38 AM	Personaly, it adresses exactly what i'm looking for in an adventure. Not too directive with just enough information to let the pc pick and choose where they want to go. I can see these little mini quest get sprickled in an onlgoing campaign too since they are not Toril shattering. all in all, an excellent design in my opinion. I agree though, that if this book is your only source for material on the moonsea, you are left a little dry. But i never expected it to be neither a sourcebook or a complete and close adventure. It's an hybrid and as an hybrid, like the bard in the D&D game, it isn't extremely good an one specific thing but is pretty good at many things. Of course, not everyone likes to play a bard :) Pat I guess it's too much to hope for that WoTC would put out regional sourcebooks AND adventure arcs for a region. I still think some areas like the Dales and Sword Coast, to name a couple, could sell both without a market saturation problem. I guess WoTCs marketing gurus are saying that regional sourcebooks aren't selling enough. I assume that's why they aren't putting more than one a year out. IIRC, CoS is all we've seen since UE, right? I thought they sold well, but maybe that's a local thing.
Patrakis 07-12-06, 12:17 PM	I'm pretty sure that MotM was an experiement for WotC. A new format they were willing to try and see what the response was. As for the why they were willing to try a new format is beyond my knowledge and i'm not good at speculations and not very fond of it either. I think it's a bit premature to extrapolate that every futur product in the FR line will be of the MotM variety. This will very much depend on sales. And it's probably related to the lack of adventures people were complaining about for the last couple of years. I like experimentations. I like that a company is willing to try something new to rejuvenate( sp?) a line that has been running for 20 years now. I certainly won't crash down on them for trying something new like MotM, even though it's not perfect. Changes always bring criticism. I would be very curious to know if these changes to formats generate that much variation in sales. I always imagined that the base consumer of FR product is of the FAN variation and i would think that fans of FR windup buying pretty much everything that is FR. But that is all speculation and as i said, i'm not a big fan of speculation :) (doesn't show, i know, i'm just in the mood TODAY). Sincerely, Pat
Lord shadow35 07-12-06, 09:24 PM	I prefer lore and maps. I did not like the MoM.
eigch 07-14-06, 10:56 AM	I have been waiting for a supplement like this for a long long time. It has all the bells and whistles of an adventure, while leaving the actual storyline up to ME! I hate doing all the nitty gritty work of figuring out encounter levels and drawing maps. I always wished there was a product that gave me a region, and let me drop the PC's in it and explore while i cater the finer points of the adventure to the characters.
bitter thorn 07-16-06, 01:40 AM	Has anyone heard how MoM is selling? my FLGS say sale are mediocer at best. I'm curious what the rumor mill says.
Saurstalk 07-16-06, 09:38 AM	So, the question is... Do more people want lore or do they just want to play a simple, non-lore based D&D game? My guess - a balance. Personally, I like MoM. I enjoy the brief (and easy to reference) write-ups. For somebody wanted a quick entry into town, you have the basics. For people who want to develop a region more, you have the building blocks. I also liked the adventure path. Yes, I agree that there are some, like Bane's temple, that seemed weak, but it can be played with. One thing that I am personally tiring of is all the PrCs that keep getting thrown at us. The same goes for spells and feats. Generally, in a ten page break down of new (regional) feats and twenty-thrity pages of spells, I'll find less than a handful that I want to use. Talk about wasted space! (Oh, you like the feats and spells? Well, that just goes to show that people have different wants and needs.) I don't think you can ever have too many NPCs to draw from. In this regard, MoM could have had more. But it didn't and I'm not sore. As for other regional supplements? I liked them all. Each has its worth and value, but each has material that I find wasted space. (See, e.g., spells, feats and PrCs.) In the end, I am NOT someone who owns all the supplements from 15 years ago. In fact, I don't own any. So, any regional information tossed my way that can be referenced 15 years from now is a godsend. While MoM could have done more in this regards, I believe MoM sought and succeeded in striking the balance that works for me. So, I'm happy.
LrdDrgn 07-16-06, 01:27 PM	MoM has a few items that make it worth picking up. The maps are excellent, there are some interesting story arcs (not all of them but a few), and since I don't own all the old books there is general information I can pull from. However, for the price I certainly would expect more. Having maps that you can set on a table for everyone to look at is very useful during game time. Greater detail of the regions, maybe a few more cities, ports of call, etc. I really want more detail, especially for its price. So I have decided not to the buy the book, at least for now. I will probably look for it at 1/2 Price Book Store as I have the feeling there will be a few people wanting to unload it. Should any of the designers read this (one can always hope); I understand that you probably put a great deal of time and effort into this, but the over all feelings is that it was rushed, and not given the attention to detail that Forgetten Realm players have come to expect. I look forward to sourcebooks, and hope that you'll put one together for the Cold Lands, but if it is thrown together as haphazard as MoM, and slapped with a ridiculous price, I will not purchase it until its in the used book stores.
GothicDan 07-16-06, 07:15 PM	My guess - a balance. Well, so far the responders of this thread seem to vastly prefer lore... But we're only a minority. Who's to say what others want?
Purple Dragon Knight 07-19-06, 12:56 AM	So it's average at everything, and good at nothing. In the end, that averages out to bad. ;) Well, I'll have to admit that after my initial flip, the book has remained on my ever-growing D&D "unread" bookshelf... although to be fair, I will say that at least 28% of the reason is due to lack of time.
saru 07-19-06, 10:07 AM	MoM is a nice idea but a really bad book. It's a nice idea to get short adventures about a region with lore, so a DM can easily put characters in this part of the world without lot of work. It's a bad book because adventures are just small dungeons (and some are really badly designed) and lore is limited to minimum (it's look like what players learn when talking to people instead of what a DM needs to bring life in a campaign in this region). There are pirates in this region, we have no information about them and how they can survive in a small lake like that. Lore is limited to 4 cities and nothing else. What is outside of this cities ? What kind of monsters or npc live there ? What is the history of this region ? There is no information to help DM to describe the region. How to improve this idea ? IMO, put a lot more lore in this book and improve adventures or make lot of small ones (with ideas about how to improve them, scale them). Look at Silver Marches, this is what we need in lore and put adventures like Vorblyx arc (i really like this small ones, you visit the Thar, got some relations to the past/history/lore of the region, and players can feel they're making a nice quest, not just a serie of mindless dungeons). PS : In the Last Mythral trilogy, Hillfars changed a lot. Malthiir left the city, his tower was destroyed and a temple of Bane will be constructed on its ruins; Red plumes army was disbanded, and Yulash was destroyed by Fzoul's army. Hillfars is basically under control of Zenthil Keep. And this is not in MoM. OK i know, the last mythral is a novel but hey ! the Return of elves in Cormathor, the cleansing of the wood and the city, the destruction of Hillfars could not have been decided just by a writer without someone in WotC who agreed. So someone should have checked this before putting informations in MoM which are already out-of-date.
KnightErrantJR 07-19-06, 11:35 AM	MoM is a nice idea but a really bad book. It's a nice idea to get short adventures about a region with lore, so a DM can easily put characters in this part of the world without lot of work. It's a bad book because adventures are just small dungeons (and some are really badly designed) and lore is limited to minimum (it's look like what players learn when talking to people instead of what a DM needs to bring life in a campaign in this region). There are pirates in this region, we have no information about them and how they can survive in a small lake like that. Lore is limited to 4 cities and nothing else. What is outside of this cities ? What kind of monsters or npc live there ? What is the history of this region ? There is no information to help DM to describe the region. How to improve this idea ? IMO, put a lot more lore in this book and improve adventures or make lot of small ones (with ideas about how to improve them, scale them). Look at Silver Marches, this is what we need in lore and put adventures like Vorblyx arc (i really like this small ones, you visit the Thar, got some relations to the past/history/lore of the region, and players can feel they're making a nice quest, not just a serie of mindless dungeons). PS : In the Last Mythral trilogy, Hillfars changed a lot. Malthiir left the city, his tower was destroyed and a temple of Bane will be constructed on its ruins; Red plumes army was disbanded, and Yulash was destroyed by Fzoul's army. Hillfars is basically under control of Zenthil Keep. And this is not in MoM. OK i know, the last mythral is a novel but hey ! the Return of elves in Cormathor, the cleansing of the wood and the city, the destruction of Hillfars could not have been decided just by a writer without someone in WotC who agreed. So someone should have checked this before putting informations in MoM which are already out-of-date. Its not out of date if you notice the date the sourcebook takes place in latter half of 1373 DR as noted at the front of the book.
GothicDan 07-19-06, 12:06 PM	It's out of date if you actually apply the events from the Last Mythal trilogy.
Saurstalk 07-19-06, 01:58 PM	MoM is a nice idea but a really bad book. It's a nice idea to get short adventures about a region with lore, so a DM can easily put characters in this part of the world without lot of work. It's a bad book because adventures are just small dungeons (and some are really badly designed) and lore is limited to minimum (it's look like what players learn when talking to people instead of what a DM needs to bring life in a campaign in this region). There are pirates in this region, we have no information about them and how they can survive in a small lake like that. Lore is limited to 4 cities and nothing else. What is outside of this cities ? What kind of monsters or npc live there ? What is the history of this region ? There is no information to help DM to describe the region. Dang. I must be of a major minority who really likes MoM. I like the flavor that is given for the cities and the region. No, it's not too extensive, but I think there's enough lore and feel to run a campaign there. I especially liked getting away from all the additions of new spells, PrCs and feats for a change, and instead, getting a way to integrate the region into a campaign with little effort, i.e., for those of us who are short on time in planning a campaign, it gives a broadly painted campaign arc to enable us to simply "run" a Moonsea adventure. I'm satisfied. How to improve this idea ? IMO, put a lot more lore in this book and improve adventures or make lot of small ones (with ideas about how to improve them, scale them). Look at Silver Marches, this is what we need in lore and put adventures like Vorblyx arc (i really like this small ones, you visit the Thar, got some relations to the past/history/lore of the region, and players can feel they're making a nice quest, not just a serie of mindless dungeons). Given that I'm satisfied, there are certainly ways to improve it. 1. In breaking the region down into segments, perhaps one more extensive adventure per segment that is tied well into the next segment. Accompany these "bigger" adventures with bigger and better maps. 2. Simplify adventure hooks, plots and side treks. You don't necessarily need a map for each. Saves space that way. These mini-quests could be linked into the greater arc ... or not. I.e., gives people various things to do. 3. More NPCs. MoM's NPCs were pretty cool, but they only whetted my appetite. MORE PLEASE! 4. More lore on the region. (I liked MoM, but agree that more couldn't hurt.) 5. Okay - I'm hypocritical - but perhaps a PrC well-suited to the region. Okay - this isn't hypocritical. I don't want to be inundated with a slew of new feats, spells and PrCs. Just one or two that add more flavor to the region (and an NPC that uses them). BTW - I agree with prior posts - the Temple of Bane is quite silly. It's too small to mesh (in my mind) with the majesty of Bane's worship in Zhentil Keep. However, if you treated the temple as much larger and the map as only a portion of the greater temple, then it makes a bit more sense. Perhaps you have to infiltrate the greater Temple to reach Fzoul's personal temple and chambers. Also, I really liked Silver Marches. I agree that it's lore was quite impressive. I also enjoyed its PrCs and NPCs. But Silver Marches is not an easy reference book. (And I hate that it's paperback!) Still, it remains one of my favorites. PS: In the Last Mythral trilogy, Hillfars changed a lot. Malthiir left the city, his tower was destroyed and a temple of Bane will be constructed on its ruins; Red plumes army was disbanded, and Yulash was destroyed by Fzoul's army. Hillfars is basically under control of Zenthil Keep. And this is not in MoM. OK i know, the last mythral is a novel but hey ! the Return of elves in Cormathor, the cleansing of the wood and the city, the destruction of Hillfars could not have been decided just by a writer without someone in WotC who agreed. So someone should have checked this before putting informations in MoM which are already out-of-date. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the trilogy isn't over yet, is it? I know I haven't seen the third book. As such, it may have been a bit premature to insert developments in the region as those developments may have not worked their way to a conclusion. That said, I may need to go back at re-read the 2nd book. I didn't recall the Red Plumes being disbanded. Moreso, I thought the book pretty much left Malthiir's involvement unconcluded as well. I.e., he may be back. But it's been a while since I read the second novel, so my recollection's rusty. It is possible that we could see a WE to MoM that reflects the changes in Hillsfar. Last, a prior reference pointed out that, in accordance with dates, there's no conflict between the MoM set-up and the Last Mythal story path. What's the date of the latter?
WayneTheGame 07-19-06, 02:34 PM	FWIW I did not like this book and did not buy it. My group has no use for prefab adventures, but what we really need is regional books detailing the area so we have flavor! I've had to resort to searching Ebay for 2nd edition books that had flavor and background information on the areas. They (WotC) need to stop catering to the newbies who are unable to create their own adventures; a regional book should be just that, not a collection of mini adventures.
Xavier_of_Cormyr 07-19-06, 02:43 PM	as a regional campaign book... it just doesn't work. That is, by comparing it to books like Silver Marches the best product yet released for D&D since 3.0 hit the shelf. (P.S. Unapproachable East doesn't get the credit it deserves- great book too) MoM looked to me like the old 2e "paperback o' adventures" that lacked oh so much flavor. As a campaign adventure, sure, I can see it being fun. As a regional sourcebook- gotta give WotC a score of 1 out of 5 stars. :(
saru 07-19-06, 03:38 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but the trilogy isn't over yet, is it? it is over and third book was released before MoM. In second book, maalthiir fled Hillfars and in third, Fzoul and Scullya conquered Yulash and Hillsfar. It is possible that we could see a WE to MoM that reflects the changes in Hillsfar. Yes, i would really like a WE with all new changes in this part of the world. An history of this region would be nice too. I play with a group who loves to follow novels. For example, we played during silence of Lolth which finished when 6th book was released. Since 2 months, we re playing with the Return of elves in background because 3rd book of the last mythal was release at end of june. So for us, lore about Hillfars in MoM is useless.
KnightErrantJR 07-19-06, 03:47 PM	Most of the action of Final Gate takes place in the latter half of 1374 DR, the Year of Lightning Storms, one year after the stated date of the events in Mysteries of the Moonsea, the latter half of 1373 DR, the Year of Rogue Dragons. Rich Baker stated at Candlekeep that when he found out that Mysteries of the Moonsea was being written, all he had time to do was to make sure the date was inserted to show that the events in the sourcebook happened before the events of the novels.
GothicDan 07-19-06, 04:19 PM	So what was the point in the sourcebook if canon states that the 'current' FR year is the most-progressed year stated in sourcebooks or novels?
WayneTheGame 07-19-06, 05:09 PM	So what was the point in the sourcebook if canon states that the 'current' FR year is the most-progressed year stated in sourcebooks or novels? Because not everyone follows the novels and doesn't want the campaign changed via a metaplot? With every single novel series that comes out, the timeline advances and something happens that affects the world. My group's current game is still set in Flamerule of 1372DR; I do not even think the Shades have really returned yet (I am the only one who reads the novels and even then I only read a few). So all the latest novels mean nothing to us.. you cannot expect groups to fast-forward their campaigns every time a new series advances the Timeline and shakes things up. I would rather see sourcebooks that contain generic information about a region so you can use that book regardless; if you play in a timeperiod where that town was destroyed (because it happened in the latest series) then so be it, but if I set my game a year before that I can still make use of the book.
GothicDan 07-19-06, 05:25 PM	It's not a matter fo what peoples' individual adventurers are running; for all WotC knows, people could be running adventures 1,000 years in the past, or 100 years. Either way, it would make a difference. That's why it's best just to keep lore current, for those who ARE running current games, as well as including bits of older lore. There's no such thing as "generic information" in a living, active world, which FR has always been. References to past and present both have to be made in a supplement about a given topic, because it might be years, or even editions, before it sees an update again.
Krash 07-19-06, 08:15 PM	I don't understand why FR DMs seem to have the need to run their campaigns on the cutting edge of the timeline. Wouldn't it be far more simple, and IMO campaign-enhancing to start your campaign in say 1359 DR, straight after the Time of Troubles. All the history for the next 15 years is mapped out in front of you and if your players say that they want to go to Waterdeep, or Calimshan or Tethyr or wherever, you have the info to tell them what's happening there and shape your campaign around those events. If you want to run an independent campaign, then you know what areas to avoid and the 'safe' regions where nothing is happening to place your campaign in. How hard can it be? -- George Krashos
Saurstalk 07-19-06, 11:25 PM	I don't understand why FR DMs seem to have the need to run their campaigns on the cutting edge of the timeline. Wouldn't it be far more simple, and IMO campaign-enhancing to start your campaign in say 1359 DR, straight after the Time of Troubles. All the history for the next 15 years is mapped out in front of you and if your players say that they want to go to Waterdeep, or Calimshan or Tethyr or wherever, you have the info to tell them what's happening there and shape your campaign around those events. If you want to run an independent campaign, then you know what areas to avoid and the 'safe' regions where nothing is happening to place your campaign in. How hard can it be? -- George Krashos I think the issue might be in part that you are reading something new and exciting that impacts your gaming world and now you have to find a way to integrate it into your campaign. As for the lore angle, I appreciate that people want their regional supplements as updated as possible. That said, the final publication of the Last Mythal book and the sending of Moonseas to the printers might have occurred in a fashion that made inserting recent events more difficult ... hence the simple timeline flashback. In the end, I don't think it would be too hard to offer a MoM Web Enhancement to address the recent upheaval in Hillsfar.
Tallow 07-22-06, 02:12 PM	I don't think the book is useless, but it wasn't advertised as an adventure arc, like City of the Spider Queen was. It was advertised as a Regional sourcebook. For that, it is pretty good I suppose. Each adventure gives a bit of info not already known about particular locations. Its sad that you have to actually read through the unimaginative adventures to get the source info though. My main complaint about this book, is not what is in it, but what isn't in it. Most of the other regional source books have feats, spells, race info, equipment, etc. Are you telling me that the Moonsea region has none of these things? Why even make the book then? The FRCS has plenty of info on the Moonsea region to run a campaign there without this particular book being printed. I don't think this will become the new regional format, because it won't sell well. GM's will buy it for the adventures and source info. Collectors will buy it, well because they collect (like myself.) Players won't buy it at all, because there is nothing in it for them. Roughly four fifths of the D&D consumer base that buys FR stuff, will not buy this book. But crunchy stuff in the book, and you get a ton more sales. This is actually a tried and true sales technique in the gaming industry, and this late into it, I'm actually very shocked that WotC made this error.
GothicDan 07-22-06, 02:18 PM	PLEASE no more crunch. :(
rjtrotter 07-22-06, 03:43 PM	I myself love the book as is. It great for DM's. But they could add a little more crunch to the book, but it's fine as is....
GothicDan 07-22-06, 07:34 PM	.... *Sobs under the weight of crunch-wantingness.* I give up. *Sad*
WhrenKehrsyn 07-23-06, 02:22 AM	I wasnt thrilled with the book. Like many of the people here I mostly buy the books and read them, thats how I got into D&D in the first place, reading FR novels and later suppliments. I enjoyed Silver Marches and Lost Empires of Faerun as well as Shining South. Even in my FR game I wont use much of the stuff in MoM and the parts I was looking forward to sitting down and reading were much less than I was hoping for. The book is not a regional book though. Not only can one see that by flipping through it but it says as much on the books cover. What bothered me a lot was the Hillsfar entry. I know the book is dated before the Last Mythal series, but like others have mentioned, why print a book thats not set in the current year? We dont get Cormyr sourcebooks that are set in 1074 DR. Sourcebooks, in my opinion, should be as current as possible. I dont like getting a book that was outdated before it was even printed...
Caligula 07-29-06, 04:57 PM	Worst forgotten realms Book EVER. If this is your so called new approach to doing source books for FR, You lost me, the book is hollow, weak and altogether a worthless piece of junk. For the people that wrote the book, seems they just copied from 2nd edition sources for the very little of information contain within. The adventures are yarns with nothing to them, any Dm whom ran these adventures would loose his players to a fly on wall. I simply put the book back on the shelf at borders and left. The Silver Marches>excellent book perhaps the best included a map of Marches blown up. Unapproachable East> Very good; however it lacked a poster map and people like the blown up maps.(Maps inside okay) Shining South>Good>also no poster map. This is what people want in a campaign source book, please stop making crap like this. Very angry FR fan. perhaps you can try again or make a bunch of web enhancements for it. or do another book.> Shores of the Moonsea is a good title. I have all the books you listed there. First, I agree - Silvermarches is the best and most beautiful book published by WotC. Itīs the best D&D accessory thus far. Second, I think Unapproachable East and Shining South are really good. Very much worth buying. Third, Waterdeep was not as good as I had hoped. I very much miss a full size poster map over the city. The bits-n-pieces maps are ridiculous and only there to reduce printing costs. Fourth, I think your hammering Mysteries of the Moonsea is over the line! Itīs not that bad at all, even though Iīm also disappointed with overall quality of the product. But I had high expectations for this one. Finally, sourcebooks should NOT include adventures. They should include inspirational sources for adventures. If you want adventures, you buy adventures! Itīs that simple. The ridiculous short-story adventures that fill out the pages in accessory books are the worst thing about them frankly... You dig?
KnightODaRealms 07-31-06, 04:34 PM	I have read the MoM and it is quite good from DMs like myself who don't have alot of time to prepare for their up coming sessions. But if they are going to put out an adventure please know your history. In the adventure "Deadly Arboretum" the Thayans/Red Wizards use Rashemi fighters as guards in their little grove. My point is this, history shows that Thayans/Red Wizards and the Rasheman people do not get along. So I would like to know the reasoning behind the blunder.
GothicDan 07-31-06, 04:39 PM	Rashemi is an ethnic stock, not just a designator of where one lives. There are even some (very rare, hush hush) Rashemni Red Wizards. The majority of the 'common people' of Thay are Rashemi. Only the Mulan are nobles and (most often) the Red Wizards.
Faraer 07-31-06, 09:36 PM	I like the title of this thread in that it's a nice counterpoint to the d20 propaganda idea of 'use' meaning something you can throw in -- howerful weak or pointless -- to your campaign right now!!!, without imagination or work or thought. But it's a rude insult to the authors, stupid internet hyperbole that you wouldn't (I hope) say to their face, and obviously wrong, since there's a good amount of source material in the book if you want that, and the quests set in the Moonsea are useful for DMs who want quests in the Moonsea. Neither long-term use or short-term use is inherently 'better'.My main complaint about this book, is not what is in it, but what isn't in it. Most of the other regional source books have feats, spells, race info, equipment, etc. Are you telling me that the Moonsea region has none of these things?Is there anything in the Moonsea North we can't represent with existing rules? If not, we don't need new rules.But crunchy stuff in the book, and you get a ton more sales. This is actually a tried and true sales technique in the gaming industry, and this late into it, I'm actually very shocked that WotC made this error.The Wizards business people are far from infallible, but they do have access to sales figures and market research, which makes them more likely to know what's going to be profitable -- which is a much more complex matter than the 'More Crunch!' frothing Sean Reynolds fabled about not so long ago -- than we are.
ragnarblackmane 08-01-06, 05:03 PM	I have to agree with the OP, this is one of the worst D&D FR books I've ever read. Most of the "lore" in this book is tedious and trivial. I mean, Mysteries of the Moonsea?" You'd think there'd be some interesting tidbits of information, but this piece of trash is utterly devoid of anything exciting/interesting.
Tobus Neth 08-01-06, 07:23 PM	I was really upset, because i was looking forward to this book....But yeah I really was rude. Sorry to everyone whom felt insulted.
The Ranger 08-04-06, 12:06 AM	I enjoyed the character write-ups, but I'd much rather have had some new prestige classes, subsitution levels for evil characters (something woefully missing from Champions of Ruin, which I really liked until I saw all the sub levels in Champions of Valor) and a few feats for one of the Realms most dangerous regions. As for the adventure part, it didn't do much for me beyond a couple of ideas for how to torment my players. Combined with the lore sections, it fleshed out the region, but not enough to justify $30. They could have done the same thing in a very special issue of Dungeon and saved me a few bucks. Unapproachable East, Shining South and Underdark are the three best regional sourcebooks in my humble opinion -- good PrCs, feats, area write-ups and a few interesting monsters. If WOTC sticks with the formula of those books, I'll keep coming back for more region books, but I'm not sure I can justify ponying up more cash for another like MOM.
GothicDan 08-04-06, 12:59 AM	My three favorite regionals are: Silver Marches, Shining South, and Waterdeep.
cgarsmokr 08-04-06, 01:51 AM	My fav regionals were: 1. Silver Marches (wish it were hardcover though) 2. Shining South 3. Unapproachable East 4. Although it wasn't a regional soucebook per se I really liked Serpent Kingdoms. I much preferred the 2nd ed. Waterdeep boxed set to the 3rd ed. sourcebook.
GothicDan 08-04-06, 01:57 AM	Serpent Kingdoms was good. And I did too - but I wasn't comparing to older products, in this case. :) So Waterdeep, to me, is still leagues ahead of UE. DGttU was MUCH better then Underdark.
MazrimTaim 08-04-06, 02:47 AM	I've said this before, but I don't think MotM is for me. I would of rather had a less, though I hate the word (and what it's came to mean!), crunch. It's kind of sad too because the Zhentil Keep area is one of my favorite regions to DM in past Thay and the regions around Thay. :mad:
blood_of_vol 08-04-06, 11:43 AM	I don't see why everyone is complaining that MotM isn't anything like the other regional sourcebooks. It's not like them because it wasn't meant to be like them! It says on the back cover "A Campaign Arc for characters of Levels 1-18", not "a hopeless excuse for a regional sourcebook that people should complain about!" I personally find the adventures in this book to be very compelling and I wish to use them in the next Forgotten Realms campaign I do. But please, please stop complaining about the fact that it isn't like the other sourcebooks because IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE LIKE THEM!!!!
yarethon 08-04-06, 02:55 PM	well I am sorry but I will complain a lot more Not because I thought it was meant to be other regional sourcebook and as it turned out it wasn't but because I would rather buy regional sourcebook and not this kind of stuff as a custumer I want to state out my opinion also I like to know if it is a opinion shared by others, and as far as I see, MoM wasn't quite a success.
GothicDan 08-04-06, 05:18 PM	We are complaining because it was originally marketed as a Regional Sourcebook, and because it took the place (schedule-wise) of a Regional Sourcebook. We would have all rather had a REAL regional sourcebook. And of course, a lot of people are complaining just because they don't like using premade adventures.
BobROE 08-04-06, 05:26 PM	Or they're complaining cause it just wasn't a very good book.
GothicDan 08-04-06, 05:29 PM	That, too. ;)
Patrakis 08-04-06, 06:11 PM	We would have all rather had a REAL regional sourcebook. Not quite all Dan :) Personally, i have all the regional sourcebook i need from the 2ed and i don't need them revised for 3ed. The official timeline is of no consequence to me as i don't follow any of the events from the novels. I prefer adventures and these kind of books where we get some limited updates and a lot of details about specific places. The only regional source books i would be interested in would be for undiscovered parts of toril. So, not quite all consider the only worth books are of the regional variety. Sincerely Pat
GothicDan 08-04-06, 06:41 PM	I don't see why everyone The above is what Blood stated. I was replying in rhetorical context. :)
Grocery_Bag 08-05-06, 02:11 PM	I like published adventures, but I think they should take the same format as Sons of Gruumsh, I was looking forward to a regional book and was dissapointed. I was able to get a few ideas out of MoM, and I liked the maps, but I wouldnt use most of the stuff in the book and I hope they don't use the format again. That being said you can't fault the guys at WotC for trying somthing new, it is R&D after all, and they did include PIRATES!
yarethon 08-05-06, 04:10 PM	I am not blaming them for trying something new, just making it clear that i would rather prefer the old format
GothicDan 08-05-06, 05:07 PM	Pirates I can do. No Ninjas, please!
Saurstalk 08-05-06, 06:06 PM	I am not blaming them for trying something new, just making it clear that i would rather prefer the old format Here is my take on what would be a nice balance: 1. History on the area, 2. Current developments in the area (including adventure hooks), 3. Descriptions of (a) key cities and towns and (b) other locales (incl. MAPS), 4. NPCS! (LOTS!), 5. Perhaps a few Regional Monsters (though we already have a ton), 6. Perhaps a PrC or two (or variants to current PrCs), as well as class variants for the region (with emphasis on variants), 7. Perhaps a regional feat or two, 8. Perhaps a few regional spells (though I must admit that I have more than enough spells to work with ... and most new spells don't hold a flame to the Core spells), and 9. An Adventure Arc that will get us into the region with a storyline (like MoM). What would be nice to see is how each of the supplements. It is quite possible that a new format was tried because of disappointing sales on other supplements. If you have noticed, in the next year or so, WotC seems to be returning to a focus on modules. Maybe the customer base is "supplemented out" and wants adventures instead. Or maybe WotC simply is trying to find another angle for sales. What may prove useful for WotC (if the complaining on this thread has raised their eyebrows) is to cast out another survey that will allow us to (a) rank the supplements according to preference and why and (b) list qualities of supplements that draw us to purchase them. An incentive to get people to participate could be a free box of minis or perhaps a DnD Mini Icon to one lucky participant in the survey.
GothicDan 08-05-06, 06:29 PM	Yeah, that's the thing - what's the point in printing an adventure arc for a region that, in the current edition, hasn't been described yet? They should have done this for the UE or Underdark or Shining South or something.
Saurstalk 08-05-06, 09:00 PM	Yeah, that's the thing - what's the point in printing an adventure arc for a region that, in the current edition, hasn't been described yet? They should have done this for the UE or Underdark or Shining South or something. I figure that the descriptions offered in MoM provided enough of a "feel" of the area to run the adventure arc there. At least, I felt that I was provided enough to run the campaign in the Moonseas region and capture the feel of the area in the process. An interesting point ... after I posted my last post, I found myself looking through Silver Marches and found that much of what I suggested is in that regional supplement. (Silver Marches had full-fledged adventures and regional stuff!)
saru 08-06-06, 05:38 AM	Not quite all Dan :) Personally, i have all the regional sourcebook i need from the 2ed and i don't need them revised for 3ed. for those of us who don't have 2nd edition sourcebook, the 3rd edition ones are important. And MoM doesn't help us to understand and describe the moonsea region. We can use feats, PrC from other books (for example, in my group we're playing in impiltur (and unapproachable east) and we're using purple knight for warsword and war wizard of cormyr for warwand). But we can't get informations about the region if we use MoM. It describe only 4 cities and nothing else.
yarethon 08-06-06, 07:13 AM	Here is my take on what would be a nice balance: 1. History on the area, 2. Current developments in the area (including adventure hooks), 3. Descriptions of (a) key cities and towns and (b) other locales (incl. MAPS), 4. NPCS! (LOTS!), 5. Perhaps a few Regional Monsters (though we already have a ton), 6. Perhaps a PrC or two (or variants to current PrCs), as well as class variants for the region (with emphasis on variants), 7. Perhaps a regional feat or two, 8. Perhaps a few regional spells (though I must admit that I have more than enough spells to work with ... and most new spells don't hold a flame to the Core spells), and 9. An Adventure Arc that will get us into the region with a storyline (like MoM). What would be nice to see is how each of the supplements. It is quite possible that a new format was tried because of disappointing sales on other supplements. If you have noticed, in the next year or so, WotC seems to be returning to a focus on modules. Maybe the customer base is "supplemented out" and wants adventures instead. Or maybe WotC simply is trying to find another angle for sales. What may prove useful for WotC (if the complaining on this thread has raised their eyebrows) is to cast out another survey that will allow us to (a) rank the supplements according to preference and why and (b) list qualities of supplements that draw us to purchase them. An incentive to get people to participate could be a free box of minis or perhaps a DnD Mini Icon to one lucky participant in the survey. I agree with you and as I said before ...I am not blaming them for trying something new.... just well... stating that i did not enjoyed it. Not quite all Dan Personally, i have all the regional sourcebook i need from the 2ed and i don't need them revised for 3ed. well there are indeed lots of resources from previous editions, but there are also many things left that I am very curious and would like some publications about it. ( not to mention people who are new to the game, but thats isn't my case ) Adventures are fine .. if they come as a plus... and if you ask me... MoM quests were pretty poor ( childish , and yeah ... I know there are slavers and stuff, but the development of the plot is of a very basic* level) Baatezu in the sewers? I would need at least a little explanation of how they managed to get there in the first place. *when I say basic I mean non creative, pretty standard.. done one million times before I don't mind simplicity, if well approached
RAMBOWOLF 08-06-06, 09:36 PM	I truely think they missed the mark with this book. I bought it thinking it would be up to par with the other books of its kind for FR, I am sorry to say that I wish I would have left this one on the shelf. thank you.
SothrimTaim 08-19-06, 10:25 AM	I too had a mixed impression of this book. I would have liked a lot more lore - it was sort of present mixed in with the thin adventures. I enjoy having some bones for adventures in the area, in that it gives you something to plug-n-play, allowing you more DM input into the larger story arc, player's needs, and so on. But they were, as stated by others, quite thin and inconsistent. The tattooed slave story just fizzled once you hit Zhentil Keep, when it should just be getting the most exciting. My biggest frustation was pretty basic - typos and other mistakes. For me they really show that rushed quality others have noted. Page 18: "Corwyn Jaffe, see page 16." Whoops, his stat block is actually on page 31. The map of Abarat's Folly on page 85 has no front door, although it's referenced in the text. Page 29 - could someone define "relinquick" for me? (does the WoTC spellchecker really let that one slide?) I know, such things turn up in most books, not just WoTC books, but after you spend a nice chunk of money, noting such things is a bit dissheartening. I really enjoyed the section on NPCs in each chapter - that's something I'd love to see more of in full regional source books. I really don't need more crunch (by Kossuth, how many thousands of feats do we already have?!). Of any FR book, this book needed it the least anyway - the Zhents and Red Wizards already have plenty of PrCs and feats presented in other books. I was surprised and disappointed we didn't see more of these things referenced - no Thayan Slavers, for instance? If you're providing stat blocks, you don't need the original source book. So I have lukewarm feelings, and I'm glad I got it for much less than cover price, but it does has some potentially fun adventure/campaign components.
Saurstalk 08-19-06, 11:19 AM	I really enjoyed the section on NPCs in each chapter - that's something I'd love to see more of in full regional source books. I really don't need more crunch (by Kossuth, how many thousands of feats do we already have?!). Of any FR book, this book needed it the least anyway - the Zhents and Red Wizards already have plenty of PrCs and feats presented in other books. I was surprised and disappointed we didn't see more of these things referenced - no Thayan Slavers, for instance? If you're providing stat blocks, you don't need the original source book. I liked how easy it was to read through it and use it as reference for a campaign. I, too, am tired of all the new spells and new feats. For many, if not most, it's filler. There could be been more NPCs, or perhaps at the back, generic NPC variants that are specific to the Red Plumes, the Zhents, Thayans or others. And yes, the adventure could have been developed more. But the problem it seems is finding the balance between pages of standard sourcebook material and an adventure path. I appreciate the effort and I don't regret my purchase. Hopefully, next time around, we'll see more improvements.
cchopps 08-20-06, 04:32 PM	I gotta say that I was also very disappointed with MoM. The Moonsea area is one of my favorites in the FR and I had been waiting for this book for a while. I just couldn't believe what I got. I loved UE, SS, and Underdark. This book has very little in it that I can use. I don't need maps of castles or keeps. There a millions of those out there. I was looking for new information and updates to old about the area. How that area fits in with the 3.0/3.5 world (yes, a little mechanics) and just, I don't know. Not a bunch of random and bland NPCs that I could make in my sleep. :(