Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Telagaunt 09-21-03, 12:09 AM	Other than the fact the new prestige class will be in the PGtF, is there any other information on this class?
Gellion 09-21-03, 12:24 AM	All i want to know is if it will be a Human only PrC. I hope it will be, there are far to few Human only PrCs.
Telagaunt 09-21-03, 12:30 AM	It probably will be. Although I could imagine elves or half-elves being included, but that's a stretch. I wonder if they'll make some special ridiculous prequisite that has a million ways to overcome like, "Must be Netherese or decent of one."
Pandelume 09-21-03, 09:35 AM	Well their can't be any Arcanist in modren day Torli. Mystra change the weave so their way of spell casting could no longer be done.
Savras 09-21-03, 09:44 AM	Originally posted by Pandelume Well their can't be any Arcanist in modren day Torli. Mystra change the weave so their way of spell casting could no longer be done. I would say incorrect. First, some say that Shar can allow the Shadow Weave to operate like the old one. I personally disagree, but that is besides the point. Also, the Aracnist PrC is how WotC incorporates the Arcanists into modern-day FR. And there is a need for that- Shade, the High Prince, the Twelve Princes and their wizards. And another one (and 60+) that should have levels in Arcanist are of course... Larloch the Shadow King and his Court of 60+ liches! Savras
Cunning Linguist 09-21-03, 09:45 AM	Well their can't be any Arcanist in modren day Torli. Mystra change the weave so their way of spell casting could no longer be done. I have a feeling that canon is going to be overturned. Since it was Mystra, and not midnight who made this rule, I can see several ways for WotC to change this without braking any major 2.ed writings.
Telagaunt 09-21-03, 10:06 AM	Well, the Arcanists are still there in Modern-day Faerun. When the Weave changed so did Arcanist powers. I wonder if they'll include the other two types aswell, what was it, Determist and something else? And we know 'Determists' still are around, Prince Lamarok is one, and the head of the Determists in Shade. And so really, in Modern Faerun a Netherese Arcanist would just be some PrC for special powerful mages. They'll probably have some sort of Su or Ex that bends the boundries of the Weave (kind of like the Southern Magician feat does). As for Shadow Weave supporting higher spell levels, a friend told me once that Shar probably wouldn't allow them so a another spell like Karsus' Avatar on her. But it is still possible if the Arcanists PrC will be directed at Shadow Weave users, which I highly doubt. I hope they revise Larloch though since he still needs a 'tune-up' with the new Epic rules, and they at least show Telamont's new levels.
Dargoth 09-21-03, 10:31 AM	I can see the Arcanist being the Human equivelant of the Elven High Mage PrC. Im willing to bet the Arcanist Prc is Epic
Cunning Linguist 09-21-03, 10:43 AM	I'll wager 100gp on Arcanist will be epic.
Derren S. 09-21-03, 11:07 AM	I hope that it will be a sorcerer PRC because tha arcanist way of casting fits sorcerer more than wizards. But considering the background of arcanists this is unlikely, so yes, I think it will be epic which is still ok with me unless they revise Elminster again that he is also an arcanist....
Derren S. 09-21-03, 11:09 AM	double post
Telagaunt 09-21-03, 11:32 AM	Originally posted by Derren S. I hope that it will be a sorcerer PRC because tha arcanist way of casting fits sorcerer more than wizards. But considering the background of arcanists this is unlikely, so yes, I think it will be epic which is still ok with me unless they revise Elminster again that he is also an arcanist.... Are you kidding?? lol why would El be a Netherese Arcanist?
Derren S. 09-21-03, 11:53 AM	Its a powerfull wizard PRC. That should be reason enough to give it to Superelmi or any other of the Munchkinchosen. ;) Wouldn't be the first time that WotC diregard continuity in order to introduce kewl new stuff, or? ;)
Telagaunt 09-21-03, 12:02 PM	El would not get that PrC, WotC isn't that stupid. :knock on wood:
Rek0 09-21-03, 12:14 PM	i think that the new netherese arcanist prc, is probobly just directed to the princes of shade, and larloch, and other netherese archwizards npc wise. who knows, maybe sharn can 2?
Pandelume 09-21-03, 06:47 PM	Its says in NEOM sorce book that Arcanist magic failed after the weave fell and they had to start mem... spells again. But I am all for the re-birth of Arcanist not having to mem spells ever day. Been able to cast any spell I have ever learned any time I like. :) I personal like the Arc(mana) way of casting. I just think it was a bit over powered last time I played it. :D Lol could even start making heavy magic again....
Telagaunt 09-21-03, 07:04 PM	Well because Arcanist ways of casting failed when the Weave failed doesn't mean they can't cast that way with the Shadow Weave. But I doubt it'll be singled to one Weave since characters like Larloch will most likely have Arcanist levels.
Pantamegament 09-21-03, 11:50 PM	Just curious...what is the PGtF?? I've been away from DND for a while, forgive my ignorance. Thanks
DarkWalker 09-21-03, 11:55 PM	PGtF stands for Player's Guide to Faerun. Info about it can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/886470000).
KismetRose 09-22-03, 03:19 AM	I fell in love with the Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set and with the Arcanist class in particular, so I couldn't help but respond. Arcanists were what wizards used to be, before Karsus screwed it up for everybody. Arcanists were all specialized magic users - they could be Inventors, Mentalists or Variators. They could have a major field of magic, a minor field of magic, and one field of magic they could never gain access to. They could research and develop new spells for their major field. They could only cast out of their major and minor fields. (Clerics were all specialized as well, and most of their specialty priest selections have ended up as prestige classes.) Arcanists didn't have to memorize their spells, but their greatest difference from modern-day wizards was the way they went about casting spells per day. They ran off of a point kind of system. A fourth level arcanist could cast up to second level spells, but they could cast a total of seven arcs per day - they could cast seven first level spells, or three second levels and one first, or any other combination adding up to seven. The flexibility of this system is awesome, but I'm not sure if they are going to use it for an Arcanist prestige class (but it would be cool). Mystra wouldn't allow for higher than tenth level spells after the fall, and she made Arcanists spend time memorizing spells each day by level (no more arcs). She opened up magic, however, so that they didn't have to specialize if they didn't want to. Thereafter, Arcanists were the wizards we know. It would be an impressive thing to have the old way come back after such a long period of time, when the "new" way is so much more restrictive. Whether Mystra would allow for it, however, is the biggest question. She's already allowed for bards and sorcerers to forgo memorizing spells, but the arc-style of casting would probably catch her attention. The Netherese did worship Shar (and not just the city that went to the demiplane of Shadow), so she was quite known to them. Modern day shades are more likely than most to figure out about the Shadow Weave. I suppose, if Shar wanted, she could grant higher level spells, but I don't see her being so generous. The human settlements from which the Netherese empire developed learned magic from the elves - whether they followed the elves in their style of magic use or made their own way of using magic is up for eternal debate. Arcanists were basically wizards, and their style of magic was taught the way that the wizard class is taught in modern-day Faerun - it's just the way things went. Given the re-emergence of the city of Shade, I'm not sure if it will be marked as a human-only PrC. It most likely will be a shade-only PrC (or open to those liches and immortals left over from the days of Netheril).
Cunning Linguist 09-22-03, 03:39 AM	With the new Arcanist class coming out, there are a few things we can almost guarantee that will happen. 1) Epic spell casting (It will be a epic spellcaster class, and therefore it would be only logical) 2) Since once more humans will cast epic spells, Mystras ban will be undone, or at least changed some way. 3) It will be open for more then just shades. (It’s a epic class, if its only open to epic Shade wizards it will be as close to useless as you can get, with a +4 Ecl, few people play shades, and only 1 shade in the Shade Enclave would have levels in Arcanist class) 4) Since Shades are humans with a template, making the PrC human only, could still work. I think you must learn it from someone or something that knows how it works. But Halruaa could have opened an old library and re-discovered the secret. Some adventures could have found some old books on it, and suddenly some new Arcanist are walking the earth, showing off.
Derren S. 09-22-03, 05:33 AM	Maybe a Nether Scroll resurfaces? But I think that it will become a more generic PRC like the elven high mage. Be the right race and have the right feats/skills and you are in. And I have the feeling that it will not require shadow magic, but that is like I said only the feeling I have based on nothing.
theorcrist 09-22-03, 09:13 AM	sorry to interupt the epic debate but... how did you guys konw taht the PrC was in PGtFr? did they post a ToC or something? (wow thats a lot of acrnyms!:) )
Cunning Linguist 09-22-03, 09:39 AM	he told us so in the "Ask Richard Baker thread"
Grognard the Mighty 09-22-03, 12:46 PM	Larloch the Shadow King Larloch wishes he was the Shadow King. If the real Shadow King ever comes back and regains full power, the whole universe of the Forgotten Realms is in trouble.
Duskblade 09-22-03, 01:24 PM	It wouldn't be wise for Mystra to put a ban on epic magic from weave users, because Shar could grant it to her followers, wich would be disastrous for Mystra's followers when it comes to full war between them and because she'll loose a lot of the evil mages (especially the younger generations) to Shar further weakening her following.
Telagaunt 09-22-03, 02:13 PM	Mystra's Ban would not be lifted, and it will not be only for human shadowmages. Remember, Larloch was an Arcanist too. And so were several other Weave users. I think the new class, while only for humans, will be a mix of wizard and sorcerer classes. Maybe get to choose a spell-like ability for a spell for every level, stuff like that. Metamagic abilities will have a big impact I think. Probably will need more preq. than Archmage also.
Cunning Linguist 09-22-03, 03:47 PM	Mystra's Ban would not be lifted for all we know, it might already be gone. NG Mystra (midnight) is said to be much more free with the use of magic then her LN predecessor. As for Shadowmages only PrC, that’s just silly. Shades are a +4 template, that stops most people from playing them. Wizards want PrC to be usable, not super specific. As for the mix of wizard and sorcerer, I don't think they will change anything for normal 0-9 level spells. This is a epic PrC, and they would deal with epic magic not normal magic, all spells learned before becoming a Arcaninst will remain the same. However, I do think that Arcanist will get benefits from learning epic magic, and I think they will specialize in that. Perhaps only be able to learn a few seeds, instead of the whole lot? Perhaps some lesser cost in creating epic spells, like the elven High Mage. And perhaps some Spell power benefits also.
Telagaunt 09-22-03, 04:18 PM	Well I only meant if it's not an epic PrC which it probably will be, it will have a little mix of wiz and sor. Also, I want to mention Shades are not necessarily Shadowmages. Shade is a template, a 'Shadowmage' is a Shadow adept wiz/sor.
Savras 09-22-03, 04:59 PM	Originally posted by Grognard the Mighty Larloch the Shadow King Larloch wishes he was the Shadow King. If the real Shadow King ever comes back and regains full power, the whole universe of the Forgotten Realms is in trouble. Larloch's title is the Shadow King, like it or not. Whether there was or wasn't another being called the Shadow King is a diffrent question. Savras
Gellion 09-22-03, 05:07 PM	I cant wait for this PrC..:D
Triton 09-23-03, 08:23 AM	I'm not going to dig into my nethril books, but I am sure that at least half elves were known arcanists, if not one or two true elves. Nethril magic was considered gluttonous compared to the Elves High Magic whic hworked in balance with the natural magical forces of nature which we know call the weave. The elves knew the Nethrese arcanists didn't care about damaging the weave, only about being ubermages, more uber than any other mage. Will check on elf arcanists!
Cunning Linguist 09-23-03, 09:13 AM	It’s quite clearly stated in Empire of Magic that “The Humans of Netheril – The Netherrese believed that they where the chosen race” (kind of like sun elves today) this leaves little room for lower races like elves and half elves. Gnomes where viewed as little more then useful slaves, and all humanoids where slaughtered when they entered a city. (And they could not even enter a Enclave) ”The Elves did not teach us about magic. We taught ourselves. Just look at the difference in how we harness the power. We have access to parts of the weave the elves cannot even begin to touch. If anything we taught them how to harness magic, and, as you can tell, they did not take there lessons to heart” I guess this sums up how spellcasters of Netheril saw elven magic. The elves on there side, did not hate the netherrace, but they did not appreciate them either. They viewed there floating cities as a crude display of magical power that was going to cause trouble in the future. The humans viewed half elves as tainted humans who belonged to neither side. They did allow the half elves to live in the floating cities only because of there magical abilities. They were usually housed in the lower districts that didn’t have much access to Mythallar output but had a higher crime rate. In order to make sure half elves didn’t move into more expensive and elite areas of the city, half elves where paid a lesser wage. I think this shows that Half Elves where not liked at all, and would not have gotten magical training in an enclave. Elves did not like the Nether race, and would have stayed in the normal Wizard class. (The wizard class was open to non-nether races)
Pandelume 09-23-03, 04:45 PM	Well the Terraseer trained most of Netheril first generation of Arcanists.
Cunning Linguist 09-23-03, 05:53 PM	First generation Netherrase where not Arcanist, they first became Arcanist after they found the Nether Scrolls and started dividing up the weave in 3 categories. And the Arcanist themselves deny that elves ever showed them how magic worked, so they might have ditched elven magic, and started anew with the nether scrolls.
The_Sleeper 09-23-03, 06:33 PM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist It’s quite clearly stated in Empire of Magic that “The Humans of Netheril – The Netherrese believed that they where the chosen race” (kind of like sun elves today) this leaves little room for lower races like elves and half elves. Gnomes where viewed as little more then useful slaves, and all humanoids where slaughtered when they entered a city. (And they could not even enter a Enclave) ”The Elves did not teach us about magic. We taught ourselves. Just look at the difference in how we harness the power. We have access to parts of the weave the elves cannot even begin to touch. If anything we taught them how to harness magic, and, as you can tell, they did not take there lessons to heart” I guess this sums up how spellcasters of Netheril saw elven magic. The elves on there side, did not hate the netherrace, but they did not appreciate them either. They viewed there floating cities as a crude display of magical power that was going to cause trouble in the future. The humans viewed half elves as tainted humans who belonged to neither side. They did allow the half elves to live in the floating cities only because of there magical abilities. They were usually housed in the lower districts that didn’t have much access to Mythallar output but had a higher crime rate. In order to make sure half elves didn’t move into more expensive and elite areas of the city, half elves where paid a lesser wage. I think this shows that Half Elves where not liked at all, and would not have gotten magical training in an enclave. Elves did not like the Nether race, and would have stayed in the normal Wizard class. (The wizard class was open to non-nether races) Its also stated that many Netherese feared the other races, or at least held no trust for them. Especially the Earthbound cities.
Pandelume 09-24-03, 11:09 AM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist First generation Netherrase where not Arcanist, they first became Arcanist after they found the Nether Scrolls and started dividing up the weave in 3 categories. And the Arcanist themselves deny that elves ever showed them how magic worked, so they might have ditched elven magic, and started anew with the nether scrolls. Congenio Ioun first major true Arcanist only one stated in the Netheril age. Was a student of the Terraseer. Anyway I said first Generation of Arcanist. Not the first generation of Netheril casters, your not very cunning lol.
Cunning Linguist 09-24-03, 12:14 PM	Poor Pandelume, not truly understanding what my nick really is. Ioun might be a student of Terraser, but the Nether Arcanist cast spells a totally different way then Elven Wizards. It's only logical to assume that they do have totally different magic systems. Arcanist where only Nether Arcane spellcasters. So Elven wizards still use the Wizard Class in PHB. If a human was trained by a wizard, he would become a Wizard, and not a Arcanist. When the nether scrolls where found, the wizards understood that they could part of the weave into 3 parts, and by doing this, and specializing in just 1 field, they could just reach into the weave and cast spells without all the time used memorizing, and they did not have to use somatic components. They then ditched the Wizard class, and became Arcanists. As you understand, Arcanist where users of the magic that was learned by the Nether Scrolls, not elven magic.
Pandelume 09-24-03, 10:20 PM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist Poor Pandelume, not truly understanding what my nick really is. Ioun might be a student of Terraser, but the Nether Arcanist cast spells a totally different way then Elven Wizards. It's only logical to assume that they do have totally different magic systems. Arcanist where only Nether Arcane spellcasters. So Elven wizards still use the Wizard Class in PHB. If a human was trained by a wizard, he would become a Wizard, and not a Arcanist. When the nether scrolls where found, the wizards understood that they could part of the weave into 3 parts, and by doing this, and specializing in just 1 field, they could just reach into the weave and cast spells without all the time used memorizing, and they did not have to use somatic components. They then ditched the Wizard class, and became Arcanists. As you understand, Arcanist where users of the magic that was learned by the Nether Scrolls, not elven magic. I know Arcanist are not Wizards I never said they where Wizards. I know Netheril learned magic of the elves then switch to been Arcanist at a later date. I said Terraseer trained some of the eailer First generation of "Arcanist". As in when they where switching between Wizard to Arcanists. Not sure how you can read First generation of Arcanist as Netheril first Casters. When I stated I was not talking about Netheril first casters. But when Netheril first started switching to their new way of casting, becoming Arcanist. Terraseer seem to have trained some of their "first" generation of Arcanists. Terraseer stated as Arcanist by the way.... Do you even know who the Terraseer was try reading NEOM(its a free download).
Cunning Linguist 09-25-03, 03:37 AM	There where already magic users in Netheril when the Finder found the scrolls. So they never needed anyone to train to understand them. As for Ioun, it is only said "he was suspected". As for Terraseer beeing Arcanist, he is stated to be one, so he must be one, but I don't think he was Nether traind. Seeing he was never around.. anywhere. It could well be that its only stated, so that if PC's should meet him, a DM knows how to play him.