Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Avner 02-23-04, 03:05 PM	just wanted to know, how many flying cities did netheril have before Karsus ascended to divinity, and where were they (and thus where are their ruins now?) thankyou! Avner
Cunning Linguist 02-23-04, 03:56 PM	In Netheril Empire of Magic they say that in the Golden Age they raised one each year.. the golden age started in 1652NY and ended in 2654 when the year of discovery started. From this you can deduce that there was at least 1000 of them. But, I remember reading something in 3.ed about 50 enclaves.. but I can't remember where.
J. Grenemyer 02-24-04, 03:23 AM	Hello Avner, Here is a list of Floating Cities gathered from the Arcane Age boxed set (which is itself available as a free download from WotC's downloads page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/downloads)): Buoyance Delia Doubloon Ioulaum Jockteleg Karsus Lachery Opus Palter Quagmire Sanctuary Shade Shadowtop Borough Spiel That’s about 14 right there. Other than Shade, I am aware of the approximate location of the ruins of only one: Opus. IIRC it lay in the extreme South East corner of the Anourach desert, its mass now little more than a tall, wide and hemispherical rise that is within sight of the western side of the Desertsmouth Mountains. Hope this helps! :D
ElGrecoETAC 02-24-04, 04:40 AM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist In Netheril Empire of Magic they say that in the Golden Age they raised one each year.. the golden age started in 1652NY and ended in 2654 when the year of discovery started. From this you can deduce that there was at least 1000 of them. But, I remember reading something in 3.ed about 50 enclaves.. but I can't remember where. That's a whoooooole lotta flat-top mountains! :D
Dargoth 02-24-04, 05:04 AM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Hello Avner, Here is a list of Floating Cities gathered from the Arcane Age boxed set (which is itself available as a free download from WotC's downloads page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/downloads)): Buoyance Delia Doubloon Ioulaum Jockteleg Karsus Lachery Opus Palter Quagmire Sanctuary Shade Shadowtop Borough Spiel That’s about 14 right there. Other than Shade, I am aware of the approximate location of the ruins of only one: Opus. IIRC it lay in the extreme South East corner of the Anourach desert, its mass now little more than a tall, wide and hemispherical rise that is within sight of the western side of the Desertsmouth Mountains. Hope this helps! :D That list isnt complete Unity for one i missing from that list
Kain's avatar 02-24-04, 06:38 AM	Originally posted by Dargoth That list isnt complete Unity for one i missing from that list Sunrest too, though it did get "blowed up."
gustav 02-24-04, 11:15 AM	There was at least one city who crashed into the sea of fallen stars as far as I remember from the sea of fallen stars accessory
gustav 02-24-04, 11:19 AM	Do not forget the 3 survivor states Asram, Anauria and Hlondeth. These were flying cities which was soo high up in the air that the had not reached the ground when magic returned and they were able to crashland. The populations from these 3 cities created the survivor states of the same name. See the map in FR 13 Anauroch for the exact location. I guess I do not have to mention the city of shade which survived by moving to the plane of shadows There was also a few underwater cities (see sea of fallen stars accessory), but I can not remember their fate
Wooly Rupert 02-24-04, 11:46 AM	Skullport was Netherese in origin, though it wasn't a flying city. Most of the ruins would prolly be found in and around the Anauroch. But, off the top of my head, I do know of a couple of others. There's rumored to be one in Firedrake Bay, off the coast of Tethyr. 'Tis mentioned in one of Volo's Guides. There's the ruins of two enclaves mentioned in the Sea of Fallen Stars. Nhalloth came down in the Mountains of Volar, an archipelago south and west of Aglarond. Nhalloth is in the northern part of the island chain, about 10 miles away from Aglarond (19 miles northwest of Thonn's Fist), and has already been picked clean -- The Simbul sent a bunch of people there to check it out. Sakhors came down south of Urmlaspyr, and though the ruins are undiscovered, 'tis a very dangerous place to visit. There were also three undersea cities built by Netheril: Cuulmath, Werapan, and Quaeluuvis. These were destroyed by High Magic. Werapan's destruction created the bay leading into Saerloon, and the destruction of the other two created Selgaunt's bay.
Silas the Mariner 02-24-04, 12:34 PM	Lords of Darkness says that at the height of Netheril's Golden Age there were 13 flying cities.... but in the Arcane Age suppliment, it says that by saying that by 1048 NY there were 13 flying cities. The Golden Age was apparently after the birth of Chronomancer in 1652, so the two sources seem to contradict each other... Also, in Arcane Age it says that after 1652 NY, one enclave a year was lifted into the sky... and this lasted for an unspecified amount of time until; Soon, dozens of these magnificent monoliths of magic rode the air currents or moved in orbital patterns around the loosely defined borders of the Netheril empire. The first enclave that fell was Sunrest and crashed to the ground after a magical disaster, killing all inhabitants, in 2202 NY. The flying cities named in Arcane Age were thus: Buoyance (crashed into the Netheril River) Tanathras (crashed into the side of the Dagger Mountains) Delia Doubloon (supposedly banished to a Demiplane by Karsus) Ioulaum (crashed alongside Karsus in the Far Horns Forest) Jockteleg Karsus (crashed into the Far Horns Forest) Lachery (crashed into the Narrow Sea) Opus Palter (crashed onto the rocks north of the Netheril River) Quagmire (sank into the Marsh of Simplicity) Sanctuary (crashed near the Cold Forest) Shade (transported into the Demiplane of Shadow) Shadowtop Borough (crashed into the Janick River) Specie (crashed into the Eastern Forest) There was also a temple to Amaunator (called the Forested Enclave of the Face on the Sun) that floated above the city of Unity. I'm guessing this crashed into Unity. (note that cities that floated north past the High Ice or west into the Savage Frontier are not included) And after Karsus's Folly, only three cities survived. These were Anauria, Asram and Hlondath... shortly after, Asram was decimated by a plague, Hlondath was destroyed by Cormanthor and Myth Drannor and Anauria was brought down by an orc horde. Netheril wasn't the luckiest place to live, it seems. -sorry if I repeated what anyone else has said... i've been doing this without the benefit of reading other people's entries!-
Wooly Rupert 02-24-04, 01:27 PM	You know, a thought I've had -- but not done anything with -- is that one of the flying cities coulda been doing some serious exploring, and was over one of the undescribed continents when it fell...
The_Sleeper 02-25-04, 02:54 PM	wOOLY, I LIKE THAT IDEA:D .I might have to build on that in the future:smirk:
Cunning Linguist 02-25-04, 03:45 PM	Wooly does have a great idea there. A mix between Halruaa and The Shades.. but clearly more Netherilian.
Amoun 02-26-04, 06:23 AM	All praise :bow: wooly :bow: its such a great idea that I am already working on it... I guess it would be a continent filled with "high wizardy." Perhaps they rebuilt an empire just as powerful as old netheril... hmm... I like that... Wooly, you have my thanks... now to get to work on the idea, MUAHAH *Continues chuckling in an evil fasion knowing full well his PCs will whimper and cry at new evils that he is about to create*
Alisttair 02-27-04, 12:38 PM	Isn't "Undrentide" another former Netheril city?
Cunning Linguist 02-27-04, 12:43 PM	Alisttair has a point, Undrentide was also a Nethril Enclave. But it has only been detailed in SoU and not in any books.
Avner 02-28-04, 08:25 AM	WOW I've been away for the oast few days, but i didnt expect to get THIS many replies thanks to all, and wooly, ur a genius with that idea... but all these replies raised another question where the heck are all these flat-topped mountains? The whole of faerun shud be covered with kilimanjaros, with THAT many flying cities...but as far as i know nowhere in FRCS is described a flat-top mountain i ask cos i want the players to follow the pattern of flat mountains so they can find the furthest one away from anauroch, and thus find which was the last netheril city to be raised (given that as time passed, they raised cities from mountains further and further away) thanks again Avner
Cunning Linguist 02-28-04, 08:29 AM	I think I remember that the Netherase took down a whole mountain range to build the Enclaves. It would be coverd by Anaurock by now.. can't find the quote, but it went along the lines of "This place was prime quality for finding hill and mountain tops to make enclaves out of"..
Silas the Mariner 02-28-04, 12:35 PM	It was the Rampant Peaks The Rampant Peaks once stretched farther south than they did at the height of Netheril. The hills and mesas south of the range once were mountains as well, but starting in 866, Ioulaum cut the top off a mountain and set it afloat in the sky. Thereafter, other archwizards who wanted a flying city all took their materials from this mountain range.
Cunning Linguist 02-28-04, 01:14 PM	Rampant Peaks would be the same as the Dragon Back Peaks in 2.ed maps, or North west of the Shadow Sea in 3.ed.
Kuje31 02-28-04, 01:31 PM	Ed just posted this, and I think it pertains to the topic. :) "Dargoth, I know of at least a dozen Netherese who are still active in the Realms of today, albeit some of them in greatly changed forms. Hint: a LOT of Netherese bound themselves into magic items (especially swords), to ‘live on’ telepathically. If your blade seems able to see what’s around it without having visible eyes, hear thoughts of nearby creatures, and mend/heal itself in limited ways, it just might contain the sentience of a Netherese. The pages of ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE and SHADOWS OF DOOM both contain Netherese survivors (one each), and I can reveal here that I know of at least two who reside quietly (pretending to be “just plain folks”) in Waterdeep and Suzail, respectively. No, I’m not going to give names, because for a DM it’s far more useful to have them as ‘handy tools.’ The Waterdhavian one founded a successful mercantile family now regarded as noble, and then (having prepared for this with covert investments, coin caches, and property purchases) faked his own death, to reappear as a retired merchant, a role he’s played several times since. Like Elminster, he meddles covertly in city politics and society, spreading rumors and ‘turning’ particular individuals to hold more cosmopolitan world-views (investing in other lands, and taking an interest in folk from those places). He does this because he very much wants to avoid Waterdhavian haughtiness from growing any greater than it is already. The Suzailan one is a female who firmly believes that Netheril fell because of overweening pride and overarching mastery of magic. She enjoys life in Cormyr (when it isn’t imperiled by war, of course), has hidden coins and gold in plenty for her needs, and covertly works to do two things: confuse and confound War Wizard investigations, and to make both War Wizards and others think that there are secret personal dangers involved in too much spellcasting, and in casting specific, over-powerful spells. She is VERY good at keeping hidden, spreading such rumors through the mouths of passing strangers by means of suggestion magics, and never doing anything openly herself. She’s no enemy of the Crown; she just doesn’t think allowing the War Wizards to reach the status of ‘extremely effective secret police’ is a good idea. She’s dwelt in Suzail for almost forty years, and knows it will soon be time to “disappear” or be noticed as something other than the well-to-do widow she’s pretending to be, but is tarrying because she enjoys the city and its folk so much (she perceives a rising danger in wealthy, ever-restless Sembia of sorcerers and wizards becoming overproud and reckless in their use of magic, but has such a distaste for what she’s seen of Sembian society that she just doesn’t want to go there, while also seeing that it would be a very good place to take a new face and name). You can, of course, create many more Netherese, though I’d suggest that they all conceal their origins and that they NOT (or try not) to know of each other, rather than forming any sort of shadowy secret society or power group. That would be why, even for the two examples from my novels, clearly identified Netherese should be very scarce. After all, if Netheril is most remembered as a “land of awesome magic,” then anyone identified as Netherese can expect wizards and sorcerers to launch surprise attacks, mind-invasions, and attempts to capture or financially control them, to get all the magic that’s “surely” waiting in their minds, or in the case of items, hidden in places they know." Dargoth then went on to ask: "How do you think the 2 survivors are taking the return of Shade Enclave? From the way you describe them they dont sound like they'd get on well with the Shades. Its also interesting the 2 cities/nations that they live in have recently had bad experiences with Shade enclave in the Return of the Arch Wizards series. Also the Shades are apparently looking for Netherese Survivors as well" Ed answered: "I quite agree: the Netherese survivors won’t get along at all well with the people of Shade. In fact, I’d venture to say that ALL surviving Netherese in Faerun would be wary at best, and actively hostile at worst, to the new “arrivals.” “Hiding from and otherwise ignoring” would probably be their initial reaction, and they’ll quite rightly see attempts by the folk of Shade to find them as attempts to snatch their power. If that happens just once, word will get around, and the folk of Shade will then discover they’ve bitten off a lot more than they can ever hope to chew."
Arcanist-King 02-28-04, 08:48 PM	I got a quick question about Undrentide. Spoiler for SoU . . . . . . . . . . I know its a game and not the best of sources but would the villians plot actually work? I was under the impression that mythallars didn't work after the fall of Netheril. The only exception to this is Shade because of Shar and the Shadow Weave and I highly doubt Herodis was a shadow weave user. Arcanist-King
Arcanist-King 02-29-04, 03:45 AM	I got a quick question about Undrentide. Spoiler for SoU . . . . . . . . . . I know its a game and not the best of sources but would the villians plot actually work? I was under the impression that mythallars didn't work after the fall of Netheril. The only exception to this is Shade because of Shar and the Shadow Weave and I highly doubt Herodis was a shadow weave user. Arcanist-King
Cunning Linguist 02-29-04, 07:08 AM	I know its a game and not the best of sources but would the villians plot actually work? I was under the impression that mythallars didn't work after the fall of Netheril. The only exception to this is Shade because of Shar and the Shadow Weave and I highly doubt Herodis was a shadow weave user. Yes she could. With the new Epic rules for FR, coming out with Players Guide to Faerun, you can replicate Netheril 10 level spells. I even think it will even have a guide how to create a Mythallar.
Sariel Rahab 02-29-04, 02:56 PM	There seems to be a potential for a lot of fallen netherese flying cities, with the original 13 and then one per year after 1652. However, it is not likely that this practice of raising one per year lasted for very long. Even though every powerful arcanist would want his/her own personal flying city, there would not be a limitless number of archmages capable of keeping the cities flying at any given time, nor would there be a population big enough to sustain the need for this many cities. Even so, Netheril was THE great human empire in northern Fearun at the time, and should have both the population support and the economical support to raise quite a few cities. Now, in the 1700 years since the fall of the Netherese empire traces of these cities may be all but gone, just remember how hard it can be to find ruins of ancient cities in the real world. True, you have people who actually lived when the cites fell, but still.
SoulLord 03-02-04, 05:28 PM	It seems that building the cities was the pinnacle of netherese magic but im sure they could be capable of making smaller things like castles and towers fly so maybe if not a city they can find some other long forgotten netherese structure SoulLord
madoule 03-07-04, 05:19 PM	Hmm floating cities... QUESTION: Would it be possible to theorise that the inhabitants of the city of shade have a few 10 level + scolls hanging loose about the city? <evil grin> IF so would you get a smack down from mystra for using them... OR if the inhbitants of shade still fooled around with 10+ level stuff during their time in their particlar demi-plane would they have 10+ level shade magic, which incidently is not covered under the aspexs of mystras you cant cast higher than 9th level spell :P rule? <evil evil grin> Oh the possibilities...
Cunning Linguist 03-07-04, 06:16 PM	It would never ever float in the Canon world of FR.. but I don't see a problem with you doing it in your world.
madoule 03-07-04, 07:02 PM	why not? cannon speaking in all but thier magic is shadow magic and mystra has no control over that. Since they are netherie wizards and all it could be a deffinate possibily that they could cast 10+ level shadow magic... I mean isn't the whole shifting from one plane of exsistance to another a tenth level spell?
Cunning Linguist 03-07-04, 07:16 PM	In 3.ed it would be a epic spell, and follow epic rules. Or atleast thats what WotC would do. You however, might play the game in a way that there was a higher level spell in the before time, that Shadow Weave can support 10-11 and 12 level spells. Wizards would never use this metod.