Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tariff 06-21-04, 12:51 PM	Just out of interest.. are any new FR adventures planned/coming out soon? anyone know?
Kuje31 06-21-04, 02:29 PM	Originally posted by tariff Just out of interest.. are any new FR adventures planned/coming out soon? anyone know? WOTC is not making adventures any more since they were losing money on them. So the only place to find FR specific adventures is in Dungeon from now on.
yggdrasil 06-21-04, 06:42 PM	that's frikkin awful news! Its all very well having all the sourcebooks in the world... but it sucks big time to keep converting adventures to the realms. I find that the ones written specifically for the realms are far superior in terms of background material. The players learn alot about faerun by playing adventures in them. If no-one is writing modules for FR, then alot more work just got shifted to the DMs to make their adventures as interesting as published FR modules. We're talking history, currency, realm based magic items and spells, notable people, maps and heirarchy for towns and cities... etc. man oh man.
Kuje31 06-21-04, 07:03 PM	Originally posted by yggdrasil that's frikkin awful news! Its all very well having all the sourcebooks in the world... but it sucks big time to keep converting adventures to the realms. I find that the ones written specifically for the realms are far superior in terms of background material. The players learn alot about faerun by playing adventures in them. If no-one is writing modules for FR, then alot more work just got shifted to the DMs to make their adventures as interesting as published FR modules. We're talking history, currency, realm based magic items and spells, notable people, maps and heirarchy for towns and cities... etc. man oh man. Maybe I should have revised that to there will be no FR single adventure modules, but there might be some in the upcoming geography books. Shining South or Serpent Kingdoms is supposed to have a few small ones like Silver Marches did, but there will no longer be modules like the Spider Queen one or the old 2e ones, except in Dungeon.
yggdrasil 06-21-04, 07:44 PM	thanks for the clarification, that still sucks. :(
Alac Luin 06-21-04, 07:50 PM	Originally posted by yggdrasil thanks for the clarification, that still sucks. :( Agreed
tariff 06-22-04, 03:31 AM	well... that really does suck... how much time do Wizards think DM's have on thier hands.. not only do we have to spend stoopid amounts of time converting stuff over to 3.5, now they want us to write the adventures!.. personally i wish they would stop knocking out source book after source book. i cant believe people use more than a fraction of the stuff featured in all these books. And if they do, the information will only be contradicted in a later release (small example: Drow poison now has dc save of 13 as opposed to 17... i really liked having to explain that in the middle of The city of Spider queen adventure). Where as modules make a DM's life a hell of alot easier (and can be customised should the DM feel the need to do hours of work). This really makes me sick.. nice one guys.. release all the "settings" you wish and then dont support them with solid adventures. Geez, i feel sorry for those that bought ebberon... i see another Spelljammer here. I know dungeon does some good stuff, and ive played alot of thier adventures but i like BIG EPIC adventures specifically set in the Realms and i bought the FR stuff because they stated there would be at least one FR adventure per year... This seriously hacks me off.
warlockco 06-22-04, 03:47 AM	Well they still have 5-6 more months to release the FR Adventure for the year. :) As to the Drow poison, this stuff was printed in at least 3 different forms, just from WoTC. With a DC of 13 or 17. With an int effect of 1 or 2-8, only thing that was consistent was the sec effect. And this doesn't even go into non-WoTC sources. I personally used the more powerful version and just differented them as one being what Drow sell, and the other they use themselves. Weak poison being 75g a dose the good stuff being 120g.
tariff 06-22-04, 03:54 AM	QUOTE: The reason I rarely write modules these days is twofold: I write 3.5e very slowly, and just hate wading through stat block after stat block (a problem when my writing time is at such a premium), and: I prefer to interweave subplots and mysteries, nowadays, rather than do linear dungeon-crawls, and there’s rarely enough space (especially in DUNGEON) to do that sort of thing properly. And this from someone who works in the industry!!..
Aemon al'Quath 06-22-04, 05:22 AM	Not just any one who works in the industry... you quoted the Big Man himself, Ed Greenwood. :)
Lashan 06-22-04, 12:29 PM	If all they were going to do is make more drow modules, then I am glad they stopped. I think one of the reasons why CofSQ failed was because it had to do with freakin' DROW!!!! Enough already! Some people are really sick of it. Can't you have a FR product without drow being involved?
Kuje31 06-22-04, 12:47 PM	Originally posted by Lashan If all they were going to do is make more drow modules, then I am glad they stopped. I think one of the reasons why CofSQ failed was because it had to do with freakin' DROW!!!! Enough already! Some people are really sick of it. Can't you have a FR product without drow being involved? I also don't think it helped that they tied it into a novel series that is taking 2 years to complete! I know I won't run that module, even though I bought it, until I know how the freaking thing ends with Lloth!
At 06-22-04, 01:25 PM	There will be some adventure material in Serpent Kingdoms, however. It will likely not be too long, like the material in Silver Marches I'd guess.
tariff 06-22-04, 01:35 PM	I dunno. Maybe its me. But i spose what has annoyed me most is the lack of information available to the punter. I mean, deciding you are to no longer release FR adventures is surely of interest to alot of FR players, yet there is no detailing of this on the official FR website. Also, would it not be possible to release the FR adventures that have appeared in dungeon magazine on the site... This all just smacks of lousy customer service.
Lashan 06-22-04, 01:49 PM	Yeah, but if they said "Hey! We are not going to release any stand alone modules for FR (outside of Dungeon)", then they will get screamed at for not supporting the product line and have people threatening to leave the product line. If they just don't say anything and continue putting out some products, then perhaps people who would have left if they made the announcment would stay and still be happy (at least nominally). Also, they can change their minds at any point if they want to. If they make a big announcment, then they would have to make this other big announcment and seem like a big flip-flopper.
yggdrasil 06-22-04, 02:27 PM	Kuje: How did you come across the news that WOTC will not be making any further stand-alone FR adventures due to the lack of money they make off them? There was a time, maybe 15 years back, when all you got were modules. Sourcebooks for worlds were a rarity, and most of us did without them. Then I remember around the late eighties or early nineties the thing to do was have adventures series... like the 14 module dragonlance one... man that was fun... or even the godswar trilogy. WOTC still do it, with their latest modules... sunless, forge, etc... there is a thin storyline that runs through them all. It is crazy to think that 20 years after it was made the temple of elemental evil is still being played (and updated). I agree it was a fantastic adventure, but where are the adventures beiing written today that will still be played 20 years from now? I agree that they shouldn't be linear dungeon crawls; we've all mostly grown up and expect something more interesting. I know my players hate standard dungeon crawls (so I am a bit worried about playing the city of the spider queen next)... as some of the reviews arent too kind on it... but I have the adventure... I have the underdark sourcebook (plus a heap of other FR sourcebooks)... so I kinda feel obliged to play it. Plus its a huge time saver. Long gone are the days of homework and getting home at 3pm with no worries to spend writing adventures, drawing maps, devising traps or designing nasty enemies for the players to face. man this makes me glum. last point... this is what I like about a single rulebook system from somee obscure gaming company. You get the book... you invest a once off fee... everything is in this one book... and its entirely up to you (and the players) to make the rest work. You have less investeed, so don't feel like you have lost something significant if it doesn't all work out. Plus, I am more discriminating about single rulebooks, before buying them... thus ensuring *hopefully* a wise purchase. FR (and DnD) on the hand is more of, I must have that book (epic levels, races of faerun, magic of faerun, psionics, et al) to have those systems in my game; to complete my set of books. When I bought underdark I quickly paged through it... looked at the table of contents.. saw an unerdark map the size of faerun and bought it. I am still reading it... and I am enjoying it so far... but this hasn't been my experience with every DnD book I buy... and thats becasue I am less discriminating. Sorry - got a bit off topic there.
Lashan 06-22-04, 02:47 PM	There were several posts by WOTC staff on these message boards that said they didn't make enough $cash$ to justify making another module. Also, the Spider Queen module was done AFTER the other original 3E modules were made. I think that initially, everyone made modules (including 3rd party companies) but many soon found out that it was hard to make a profit on the printed type of module making. So, not that many people are doing it. You can still find some good .pdf modules being made, but they are not tailored for FR. Then again, is there a classic FR module that everyone says is the best? I can't think of one that has the appeal of the old 1E and 2E Greyhawk modules.
Kuje31 06-22-04, 03:25 PM	Originally posted by yggdrasil Kuje: How did you come across the news that WOTC will not be making any further stand-alone FR adventures due to the lack of money they make off them? As Lashan said, there has been posts by WOTC both on thier boards, as well as on ENWorld that said they will not be make any more modules since the 3e ones did not sell as well. Eberron will be getting some since it's new, but after those few even that setting will not be getting more, except for maybe in Dungeon.
Faraer 06-22-04, 03:38 PM	We mostly know about WotC's thinking from interviews and posts on these boards and ENWorld's. The original D&D plan was for the limited line of 32-page modules (which would sell more through being the first) plus irregular 'super-adventures'. The big change in the RPG business came circa 1990 when (a) the D&D audience started to split, and (b) publishers started targeting books at players -- which is taken for granted now, but was never done before on a large scale. The first kind of necessitated the second to maintain sales, a quite different case from the late 70s/early 80s when everyone bought the not-too-numerous, and very good, famous (A)D&D modules. Wizards is the *least* likely to publish adventures now because as a big company their overheads are so high. But companies realize that scenarios help keep a line healthy even when they're not hugely profitable as books, hence the downloads. And small publishers like Necromancer Games who love the format can get by with them by being efficient and clever. The 'grown up' comment is quite off the mark. An event-based module with a largely predetermined narrative is not more grown up than a dungeon setting with interesting encounters and a brief but compelling rationale that can be a staging ground for all sorts of nonlinear encounters and conflicts. The story is what the PCs do. The classic Realms modules are Ruins of Undermountain and Haunted Halls of Eveningstar and yes, it's a great shame that (because of the difficulties of designing for d20) Ed isn't set to write more adventure material any time soon.
Halornn_Kaala 06-22-04, 04:49 PM	Yes, I think it would be appropriate and perhaps even profitable for WOTC to release all the 3.0/3.5 Dungeon FR adventures, with a minimum of effort. They could bring the 3.0 ones up to 3.5, and include any FR adventures that have been offered as web enhancements (there was one for UE, and another one by SKR not tied to any particular sourcebook) in print form. So far, I think that'd be about 12 adventures. They could add 1 or 2 new ones to entice those who have seen everything released so far. Yes, most of them are small, but it would definitely be something I would buy.
Barmoz 06-22-04, 11:23 PM	They seem to be taking a strange approach to this problem. They're saying, we're not making money off of adventures, so we're not going to make them anymore, but don't people think if they made better adventures, they'd probably make more money off of them? There is a storyline for the realms, that develops through the course of the novels and supplements. I think if they released more adventures that were tied to the continuing storyline of the realms, instead of what I think of "generic" dungeon crawl, save the maiden, find the item, etc. they'd probably sell more of them. I can't cite specific examples, I suppose I should if I'm making those kinds of claims, but I don't buy a lot of premade modules, and the reason is that I feel like they're nothing I couldn't do on my own, whereas adventures I would buy are if not epic (in scope, not neccessarily in level) I want to buy adventures that let me participate in the changing of the realms, not adventures that leave me thinking it's just like an adventure I came up with, or it had no impact on the world, even in a small locality sense.
Kuje31 06-22-04, 11:56 PM	Well I can see WOTC's point since most modules are bought by a DM. So instead of selling a sourcebook to a group of 5, that's 4 player's and a DM, they are selling one module to 1 person, the DM...... So because of that, modules do not sell as well as sourcebooks.
tariff 06-23-04, 04:37 AM	Lashan: Yeah, but if they said "Hey! We are not going to release any stand alone modules for FR (outside of Dungeon)", then they will get screamed at for not supporting the product line and have people threatening to leave the product line. So instead we read about it here and not only get annoyed at the FACT, but at the way they did it. Its like buying a DVD player and being told "Well, you will have to make your own movies mate, cos we don't do them".. Well, i could...but i dunno if you guys would wanna see them :) We only started played FR on the release of 3rd edition. Before that we played in greyhawk and just did modules "shoe-horned" into the setting. When 3rd edition came out, we as a gaming group decided we wanted to play in a consistant world that evolved and had a real sense of being real (lots of information/adventures/support etc). Seems like a bad decision now. Luckily we have a Portal behind the waterfall near Daggerfalls that leads to greyhawk.. Seems we will be utalizing this. EN World has a story hour section and i find it most interesting to read about other groups experiences in modules my group has participated in... i dont personally like reading about other gaming groups home made worlds/adventures with thier quirky house rules, prestige classes etc.. i guess its a case of "you had to be there", but with published adventures i CAN be there. And surely this could be a profitable idea. Id love to read a proffesionally written novel of a group of characters fighting thier way through COTSQ, and wouldn't this in turn encourage people to go out and buy the modules so they too could participate. I cant believe things have got worse in this area and not better.. We used to have box set adventures (night below, al-qadim, Castle Forlorn etc). They where great..players love handouts/maps/pictures etc, and i pressumed they would go more into this area, especially with the D n D line of miniatures now available. I had hoped for box-set adventures that included Floortiles aswell!!! Proffesional modules tought me how to play the game, tought me how to DM. How are new players going to "ge into" the game if the first thing they have to do is write a adventure! .. I know you can still buy the old adventures (speaker in dreams, forge of fury etc) but these are not 3.5 and a "newb" may be a little confused as to the differences\incompatabilities.. and if Wizards really arn't going to release any more adventures these old (incompatible) modules will become harder and harder to find and will a "newb" really be that bothered to hunt them down/subscribe to dungeon..No... too much hassle.. might as well just play Everquest. In Summary I really think its a BAAAAD decision for the future of the Dungeons and Dragons game that Wizards of the Coast are not releasing adventures... Forgive them Gary... For they know not what they do..
yggdrasil 06-23-04, 04:39 AM	Faraer: Thanks for the names of the famous Ruins of Undermountain and Haunted Halls of Eveningstar... I'll look out for them. As to my "grown" up comment... it wasn't to suggest maturity (I agree wholeheartedly with your view - well designed linear crawls are as enjoyable as non-linear event based sessions... its up to the players to make it enjoyable). What I meant was to suggest that if you have been playing a while, you would have "grown" up on linear crawls (and in my case; now look for a little variety). Kinda like "growing" up on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles... they were around while I was aging as a youth. *chuckle* I'd hate to be misunderstood. Anyway... Barmoz echoes something I also feel. Where are the modules that are in the city of shade... does one exist?... I haven't seen it. Explain Tilverton, Elminster in hell, post godswar stuff, drow on the surface, return of the elves from evermeet, i am sure there is a ton more you guys all know off the top of your head. The modules that are tited to the big stories of the realms. where are they?
Faraer 06-23-04, 03:14 PM	Originally posted by Barmoz There is a storyline for the realms, that develops through the course of the novels and supplements. I think if they released more adventures that were tied to the continuing storyline of the realms, instead of what I think of "generic" dungeon crawl, save the maiden, find the item, etc. they'd probably sell more of them. My instinct is that tieing Spider Queen to the metaplot (and setting it in a specific year) is one of the things that hurt its sales. Many people dislike the metaplot and the whole idea that the Realms has *a* story and not many stories layered and interweaved, driven by DM and players.I can't cite specific examples, I suppose I should if I'm making those kinds of claims, but I don't buy a lot of premade modules, and the reason is that I feel like they're nothing I couldn't do on my own, whereas adventures I would buy are if not epic (in scope, not neccessarily in level) I want to buy adventures that let me participate in the changing of the realms, not adventures that leave me thinking it's just like an adventure I came up with, or it had no impact on the world, even in a small locality sense.The Realms is not an epic fantasy setting. Its spirit is that heroes don't have to change the world, just always to strive and to make some people's lives better through courage and kindness. The Realms very much has a characteristic style of adventures that's different from Dungeon scenarios, or third-party scenarios, or ones you'd come up with after reading the DMG and FRCS. The way power groups are used, kinds of roleplaying situations that crop up, dungeons are designed, villains think and act, events are tied to PCs -- a new Realms DM doesn't even have the means to make adventures in the Realms style because no Ed Greenwood adventures are in print!
Lashan 06-23-04, 04:01 PM	Tariff, while you might be angry, I bet there are a lot more people out there that aren't even in the know. So, they aren't ****** off. Also, there are perhaps some people who aren't so ****** off (such as myself). So, while you might have gotten angry at the strategy that they used, I have a feeling you might have gotten angry no matter what strategy they used. This said (and not meant as an insult) it seems that overall it is working that there are less very angry people at them (since many haven't even thought of it). If they made the announcment to never make modules for FR again, then the product line might have collapsed. Also, it's not just FR that they are doing this to. Sure, they are making some Eberron modules, but no one else at the momment. It's not like Greyhawk is getting a better shake of it. They were suppose to be the "default" game world for 3E, but they have only gotten a single sourcebook that was the Living Greyhawk supplement that takes all old stuff and updates it in one book (while excluding a lot). So, at least FR is getting crunch filled supplement books. While some of the PrC's of the "splat" books were for Greyhawk, it certainly wasn't dedicating the whole book to GH. So, since all worlds except Eberron are getting the shaft with modules, I am not sure where you are going to go, except Eberron. Also, it is possible to play in a living game world that is FR, but there is a lot of work that is up to you. There are the novels that come out and detail everything. Dragon magazine does detail many of the characters from FR novels. The FRCS and a few other books does detail a few of the major "iconic" characters of FR. If one is industrious, one can use all the info and make the FR a living world. I doubt that enough modules would come out in a year to keep up with all the novels, anyways, so you would be required to do a lot of work on your own to keep the game world up. Dungeon magazine is also coming out with FR modules, so you can' say that NO modules are being created. At this point, you simply need to buy every novel, get a subscription to Dragon and to Dungeon and you will have all the FR info that comes out! Not to mention buying every FR supplement for the latest hint of FR news. Personally, I say start the timeline of your campaign back to about 1354 DR and run through the combined history of FR. It should takea few campaigns to get through it all. That way, you just need to convert all the old stuff to 3E (or look for conversion documents online) and play to the present. Maybe by the time you get to the present, there will be more stuff to play. Another option is to join the Green Regent campaign. It is a "living" campaign run by the RPGA. If you are disinterested in that, perhaps you can get your hands on the modules that were used for them and turn them into a home game of Green Regent?
Dirk_Nightbreese 06-23-04, 05:35 PM	First off, Lashan...whew...you're awesome. I totally agree with your points and give you mad props for being so helpful/insightful yet not using language or tone that could rub anybody the wrong way. Second though, to add a bit to your point. In the last six months in Dungeon, there have been two FR mods...(acutally the latest one is slated to come out this month). Also, just reading some of the descriptions of the mods offered in Dungeon, they could easily be converted to FR by placing them in locations...not only this, but one could create their own locations using these Mods... Anyway, I don't want to sound like a paid Dungeon ad, but realistically, one could say that there are usable mods coming out every month. Granted, none of them have the epic/campaign feel of Temple of Elemental Evil or (though I haven't played it) City of the Spider Queen....tangent alert! Speaking of which, let me be perhaps the outspoken proponent of the idea of the Year of the Drow and CotSQ...I think that it was a great idea to tie the two as well as the novel line.... So, while the mods may not be campaign-esque...it takes a heck of a lot LESS effort to string together 4 or 15 smaller mods together to make a great campaign. Again, this does take some creative effort....but something tells me that most DMs can probably handle it.... Okay, game on! ~Dirk
Barmoz 06-23-04, 06:48 PM	I didn't mean to imply epic in levels, which is why I said epic in scope, meaning wide reaching, not neccessarily high level. If I want a "dungeon crawl", I can do it. If I want a "find / recover the item", I can do it. If I want a "stop the bandits" I can do that too. I want to take part in the storyline. Denying that there is a storyline to the realms is silly, there is. Just look at the changes from 2e to 3e to 3.5. Nations have crumbled, power groups have reorganized, ancient civilizations have resurfaced. I don't like to make those kinds of changes in my campaign on my own. The reason why, is that if I do, then later published supplements render my individual campaign obsolete. I have DM'd adventures that tie into the storyline events, but that's the kind of adventure module I would MUCH rather buy. However, I guess the majority must not agree with me, or like you said, CoTSQ would have done better financially. Although my personal opinion on that is the length of the series, and the fact that the whole "drow thing" has been quite overdone have more to do with it than anything.
tariff 06-24-04, 02:02 AM	Lashan i cant believe you advocate a dont tell the punter strategy, regardless of "it works cos noone knows".. its just plain wrong. And your "feeling" is wrong.. i wouldn't have got half as angry if i felt they had done all they could to inform the punter of product line changes. Yes i realise they are not releasing adventures for greyhawk either.. thats not a problem, we will just go back to playing the way we did before.. like i said, we started the Realms because we wanted a consistant, changing world that we could participate in, with pre-written adventures & minimal DM faffing about. and now i realise FR dosent offer that, fair enuff. But the point is that was specifically how they advertised the product (at least one major adventure per year.) Yes i could convert adventures from dungeon, but i dont want to. Ive done it for years and im tired of it. I have a life outside rpg's and simply dont have time. I really dont mean to rub anyone up the wrong way, sorry if i have. But it all comes down to a simple question really. Do you think that the manufacturers of the Dungeons and Dragons game should release modules for thier product.. yes or no
warlockco 06-24-04, 02:20 AM	Tariff for a big whiner that is in the business, why don't you try and get hired by WoTC to make modules for them then. Greyhawk is the "official" world for 3E but has not material other then a few modules and a "sourcebook". The Realms has the most material out there, maybe not a dozen modules, but unless a module is set in a stone in one location, you can use it in a suitable location in the Realms. Plus for all those old hat out there with tons of modules, they can converted to 3E with some to no effort at all. I have used several of the old DL series (War of the Lance modules from Dragonlance) in my 2E game with no problem, and those were 1E modules. And I have already used DL1 in my game, and the DM that is running the Epic Game that we play had also used it for the Epic Game. Modules can be as hard or as easy to convert depending on what you want to do with them. Also alot of the 3rd party printers make modules still, and you can find a bunch of them as pdf files. I have even used Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury for my Realms game, just by changing the names of the places in the module to suit the area that I'm using. Also one thing that I have noticed with alot of the new modules is very very poor grammar. Example from Sunless Citadel: A cage containing a gaping hole. Which prompted from the players: how big is the gaping hole? I stab it, is it bleeding? and other such remark poking fun at the grammar.
tariff 06-24-04, 02:42 AM	Ok thanx guys for this lively discussion, good to know eveyone is still passionate about this game.. I think all the points are now just being repeated tho so ill leave my contrbution here... i only posted cos i care about this game that has been with me for more years than i care to remember.. but before i go :) warlockco: Tariff for a big whiner that is in the business, why don't you try and get hired by WoTC to make modules for them then. cos i dont want to make modules..think i specifically stated i wanted less rpg work not more Greyhawk is the "official" world for 3E but has not material other then a few modules and a "sourcebook". Yes i know The Realms has the most material out there, maybe not a dozen modules, but unless a module is set in a stone in one location, you can use it in a suitable location in the Realms. um, yes i know Modules can be as hard or as easy to convert depending on what you want to do with them. sigh... yes... think i said something about my desire to convert Also alot of the 3rd party printers make modules still, and you can find a bunch of them as pdf files. mmm.. but wont that involve converting! I have even used Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury for my Realms game, just by changing the names of the places in the module to suit the area that I'm using. yes, so did i.. would prefer specific FR modules tho...as i think ive already stated. cheers, laters
Lashan 06-24-04, 07:21 AM	Yes, I think they should make modules for the FR. I wasn't advocating the "don't ask, don't tell" strategy that WOTC has used, but I don't see a better option. I think telling people would be a bad idea. Just think of all the rumor *****s on these boards who would complain up a storm about how it is the collapse of FR if they did announce that. I'm not sure what they could do which is better. Also, I like to think that they can reverse this decision at any time without a big fuss if they don't announce it.
Mystery Man 06-24-04, 08:18 AM	Looks like Dungeon 113 is going to have 2 low level FR adventures.
Mystery Man 06-24-04, 08:22 AM	Originally posted by tariff cos i dont want to make modules..think i specifically stated i wanted less rpg work not more Spit in one hand, wish in the other. See which one fills up faster. ;) I don't think there is such an animal. I've tried running modules "as is" but its almost impossible.
Faraer 06-24-04, 10:35 AM	WotC almost never puts that kind of 'this is how we're thinking about the line' talk on its website, especially concerning products not yet announced. Do you see anything about 'mostly hardbacks from now on', 'Realms sourcebooks are targeted at non-Realms-users too', 4E in 200x'? The scenario-book strategy is no conspiratorial aberration. A good Realms adventure is one that works the way the Realms works. One that works like any other but with Realms proper names is just nominally Realms-set; it's only trivially easier to use in the Realms than a Greyhawk or 'generic' scenario, is no more valuable as lore than the splatbook prestige classes are for the World of Greyhawk, and it distorts and misleads perceptions of what the Realms is and how it works.I'm not sure what they could do which is better.They could license Realms modules and lorebooks to a company interested in publishing them.
yggdrasil 06-24-04, 11:55 AM	I have also converted modules from other sources to fit within the FR realm and my main story arc (who hasn't); and I have seen the consequences: The players still have fun; the non-FR module is a "fit" in the sense that I have made it make sense because of where it is geographically, and perhaps more importantly; where it is in my story arc... I have changed place names, NPC names, cultural references, probably changed it to match the level of the heroes, probably changed the stats from an earlier edition of DnD to 3E... (so - a lot of work has gone into this module before the first "descriptive block" is read to a player.) BUT.... When a year or so has passed and we talk about the journey the players have made through the different adventures, the ones they pick to be the most enjoyable (and I think because my group of players equate richness of environment with enjoyment) are the ones specifically written for FR. It isn't like they don't enjoy the non-FR ones, just which ones they "prefer". And guess what... the ones my players prefer take alot less work from me. ;) -- Regarding GreyHawk - who cares? *chuckle* sorry... don't mean to **** anybody off... but I am a realms nut. I do not want to be in greyhawk, let the greyhawk fans bemoan their lack of stuff - as much as we are bemoaning ours. And what of Eberron? I won't buy it... why... cos I got 1000s of pages of realms material... I am not starting in a new world. And even if I was remotely interested in checking out Eberron... how do I know WOTC will continue to support it. -- Lashan : For sure.. everything you say is what we (I assume) are doing already to combat the lack of adventure material. At least your post offers an alternative to our communal whine. So, thanks. Faraer : License the realms : Dang Good idea - Go get the license Faraer! :)
Halornn_Kaala 06-25-04, 10:16 AM	Mystery Man - I checked the Paizo website and only saw one FR adventure - Practical Magic - and it was a 9th level adventure (not what I'd call low level, myself). Am I missing something? Has anyone seen the issue yet? Does it actually have a second adventure? Halornn
Qwimby the Halfling Mage 06-26-04, 11:07 PM	Originally posted by Lashan Tariff, while you might be angry, I bet there are a lot more people out there that aren't even in the know. So, they aren't ****** off. Also, there are perhaps some people who aren't so ****** off (such as myself). So, while you might have gotten angry at the strategy that they used, I have a feeling you might have gotten angry no matter what strategy they used. This said (and not meant as an insult) it seems that overall it is working that there are less very angry people at them (since many haven't even thought of it). If they made the announcment to never make modules for FR again, then the product line might have collapsed. Well, he's not the only one to think about it. I'm rather po'd too. Wizards is worried about losing a little overhead? Geez...if Jehovah's Witness thought about that before writing those little booklets, they'd never get new ppl through the door :angel: I buy all their material for FR, stupid or not stupid. I find good stuff, but I don't have the time to design my campaign's particulars. I'd love to make something that revolves around the Zhents or Cult of the Dragon. Who can do that in minimal time though? I believe that if Wizards wants to keep the core people buying their stuff, they need to invest in us as well.
Talok 06-29-04, 07:40 PM	Well, after a drought of almost a year, the most recent issue of Dungeon has a ninth level FR adventure. I have'nt got a chance to use as many FR adventures from Dungeon as I would have liked due to geography and level issues, but the ones I have used have been great. I hope they keep this up. I hate having to convert Greyhawk adventures to FR.
Bela Reborn 06-29-04, 09:11 PM	Which adventure is this now, in the most recent issue of Dungeon? I know there's supposed to be one in the next issue, set in Marsember, but I recal it being lised as low level
BeeKayDubYa 07-02-04, 12:44 AM	Maybe it's just me. Maybe I have no life (which is, from a philosophical stand-point, at least partially true depending on you inclination) but I like writing my own adventures. I know what my players like and don't like. I listen to what they talk about about in and out of the games I run and can specificaly tailor encounters, plot hooks, etc for them as I go. In fact, the only published adventure I've ever used was the "Hordes of Dragonspear" which included Battlesystem Rules and stats and even it was modified to suit my purposes. Now I do use the sourcebooks, novels and Realmslore as background info. I pick what I want to include and ignore the rest (or at least don't mention it) until it becomes an issue or my guys want more info. What's more, is my current campaign, which began with the Time of Troubles is only reaching 1367 DR. The party is currently based in Tethyr and are going to be drawn in to the Reclamation Wars, eventually working for Queen Zaranada and Lhaeo (oops, King Haedrek). After that, they will be exposed to (at least a little) to the Threat from the Sea storyline while the other half of the party will be present in Cormyr during the goblin and ghazenth (sp?) attacks as they are trying to establish a stronghold in the Stonelands (one of the PCs, a paladin, hopes to eventually become the Baron of the Stonelands). Most of this will only be happening in the background since my players' PCs are the heroes of the campaign. They have never met Elminster, Khelben, Drizzt or Bruenor, any of the Seven Sisters, Halaster or any other big-time mover and shaker. They've been to Waterdeep, Zhentil Keep, Silverymoon, Hillsfar, Calimport, Daggerdale, Myth Dranor, Cormyr, Westgate, Baldur's Gate and crossed Anauroch and travelled onto the Great Glacier. They even have a small farm in Shadowdale (in absentee) and a trading outpost in Chult. If the players want to go someplace, they go. Most of their adventures involve traveling from one place to another. Despite the magical resources at their disposal, they prefer to walk (or ride) from place to place, stopping in every little town they see and meeting people. None of them like dungeon crawls (although like many other adventurers, they have been to Undermountain and the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar) just to say that they've been there and done that. They've fought in wars, solved mysteries and many other things that have caught their fancy. As they've progressed in level, some PC's have retired and their followers have taken up their mantles. The highest level PC is now 18th level and the lowest just made 3rd. The entire group makes its home on the Velen Peninsula but has spilt into six smaller groups (mostly of PCs about the same level) to pursue different, sub-agendas. All because I write my own material. The big thing I've learned from them, is to write for my audience. Nobody knows these guys like I do (we've been together for almost 15 years after all) and we get together almost every weekend to plat the game we all love.
Lashan 07-02-04, 07:45 AM	BeeKayDubYa, I wish I had as much spare time as you. I would love to tailor everything for my players, but I find it hard to make the time to do so. I've got a family and work and never can seem to find time to create adventures. Actually, I create some, but not all of my adventures. I usually use some that are given and then create my own. Ack! Reminds me that I need to create the next one.
yggdrasil 07-02-04, 07:52 AM	lashan: ditto (word for word practically). :)
Qwimby the Halfling Mage 07-02-04, 11:43 AM	That's fine for everyone who has the time to undertake a task like that. I'm not gonna give a "some of us have lives" speech, though we do LOL. Maybe some of us just don't have the knack for it. I wouldn't hire a roofer to fix my car, though he may very well know how. Same point...I may not have the ability to create something so fluid, and may be stuck with dungeon crawls and such. These guys get paid to make this stuff, I say let them do it. I've paid them for less work (looks at several 2e pieces of crap)
tariff 07-02-04, 12:52 PM	Nice one BeeKayDubYa, im sure your players love you, and wizards of the coast should love you too. Cos your doing thier work. :) For the rest of us people with lives tho.. the chant goes something like... Bring back Modules..Bring back modules
Cunning Linguist 07-02-04, 02:23 PM	What we should be chanting is "Licence out the rights to make moduls for Forgotten Realms for a short periode of time" If WotC don't want to make FR moduls, I'm sure there are others who would love to make them. Or how about Paizo getting a few people to update there old adventures and putting them into a book? Like the Mere of Dead Men adventures? Im sure they could make a 10-20 FR books, the size of City of the SpiderQueen, with all the adventures that have been in Dragon the last 100 issues.
tariff 07-02-04, 04:52 PM	Yup, my only worry with giving to other people to do, is, in my opinion they killed Ravenloft doing this. Yes they should put all Dungeon FR modules in one source, good idea.