NPC elminster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

NPC elminster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadow810
12-11-06, 02:51 PM is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster?
Faraer
12-11-06, 03:06 PM Elminster of Shadowdale is a man with an extraordinary love for his friends, for knowledge and memory, and for all Faerūn, who has lived for centuries and seen many of those friends die because of his pact with the goddess Mystra, and is now immensely weary and half-mad with the energies he's held, the things he's seen, and the secrets he keeps. He hides that love beneath a wry, crotchety mask. He's a sage and, secondarily, a great mage of power who manipulates folk in a vastly complex web towards what he sees as best for Faerūn and for the Art.

He has too many duties and threads to keep track of to accompany a single adventuring company for long periods, but if you need an entertaining, manipulative adviser character, there's no reason not to use him except that you might do better to use a character of your own creation who you'd be guaranteed to do justice to -- as I have not to Elminster in my description.
Lord Karsus
12-11-06, 06:07 PM is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster?

-Elminster is not the type to do things for himself very much. As Faerer alluded to, he is a meddler, who sets events in the directions he thinks will do the best. I don't think it would be unheard of for Elminster to have a PC party do his work for him.

-As Faerer said, he is a busy guy, and shouldn't constantly be issuing orders to the PCs. But, he fits the role of the guy who gives them the push in the right directon quite nicely. El could be the guy who pops in from time to time, to tell the PCs where their next "mission" or "assignment" is.

-As for what he might be doing during the Year of the Rogue Dragons...Being the wizened sage type, he would probably be involved with the group of sages from around Faerūn trying to put a stop to the Elven curse.
Old Sage
12-11-06, 07:42 PM is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster?Here's a few thoughts from Ed, on Elminster, that should help --

He owes a little bit to the Old Storyteller of Thornton W. Burgess, a little bit to Merlin, a little bit to Gandalf, a trifle to Fagin, a trifle to the literary character Glencannon, a little bit more to the real-life (and long since sadly deceased) English comedian Michael Flanders, and so on.and --

He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf or Belgarath—in fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too.
miscellany
12-11-06, 11:40 PM is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? No although what the other guys said means shouldn't be ignored either I would use him as much as you think is fun without having him do any of the player's work for them you know?

and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? You know doesn't sammaster have some unfinished insanity based business left on his plate to deal with Elminster about?

I guess it depends on where the campaign is headed are you guys gonna but heads with sammaster directly or just foil his plans kind of thing?

I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster? Sorry can't top Faraer and that is straight up the truth the man knows his lore.

When lore is practiced without prejudgement the loremonger becomes the loremaster! Praise be to Faraer! :clap:
GothicDan
12-12-06, 01:44 PM As much as I resemble - I mean, reject - Miscalleny's last statement, I do agree that Faraer deserves some woots.

Though, to me, judgment is the only natural, proper path for humanity to take in any and all of its endeavors. Since I'm an atheist, I believe that no power 'gives' us judgment, or proscribes morals to us. It's up to us to judge everything as we see fit.

For instance, if someone had answered, "El is an annoying old wizard who sleeps around with everyone and is Ed's persona in the Realms," I'm pretty sure that Faraer (and myself, and Old Sage, and Lord Karsus, etc.) wouldn't feel all that bad about 'judging' that statement as patently false and even directly besmirching both Ed and El.

A little more topical... I would probably never involve Elminster directly with my PCs. Certain rare exceptions would be threats directly relating to Shadowdale, the Chosen, the Weave, or (eo enforce El's character as being an actual person) something that the old sage holds dear (for purely emotional reasons).
Terraneaux
12-12-06, 01:58 PM For instance, if someone had answered, "El is an annoying old wizard who sleeps around with everyone and is Ed's persona in the Realms," I'm pretty sure that Faraer (and myself, and Old Sage, and Lord Karsus, etc.) wouldn't feel all that bad about 'judging' that statement as patently false and even directly besmirching both Ed and El.

None of those three things you mentioned are all bad things, though they are all pretty much true. Well, whether or not someone is annoying is pretty much a matter of opinion. He does sleep around a lot, but I won't hold that against him or Ed. And he is Ed's alter-ego, but I'm perfectly willing to give the creator of the setting a place in it. It's just that he shouldn't be overused, and he especially should not overshadow the PCs.

Elminster should be used to add flavor to the setting; he's got a lot of history and such. But there's a fine line from the players going "Wow, we met Elminster, thats cool." to El going "I 4m t3h 4w3s0m3st m4g3 in f43run! D0 p3tty 3rr4nds f0r m3!"
GothicDan
12-12-06, 02:06 PM He sleeps around a lot compared to whom? Basing it on real life standards would be a terrible reference, considering the world we live in is (culturally, religiously, ethically) little like that of the Realms in terms of personal freedoms. Very likely, your typical Realms person, regardless of status, sleeps around more than someone from Earth.

And where exactly do you get the idea that he's Ed's alter-ego? He was used as a story character and a witty dispenser of DM's hints and wisdom, and then TSR told Ed that if he wanted to make money, he had to write all about him in novels and to narrate sourcebooks from his point of view.

Just curious as to where you get that opinion. (Other than the 'it's obvious,' or 'it's common sense,' or the like.) I've made hundreds of characters (for RPGs and short stories); sure, they all have a bit of me in them, but none of them has ever been "me" personified. Why do you think Ed - who's created thousands of characters, if not more - would be any different?

You're not implying that Ed considers himself to be Merlin, are you? ;) If anything, I see Oghma as a more likely candidate for Ed's personification (though even in saying that, I feel shaky, as I don't know much about him besides what I've read from his answers). He's a librarian, after all, and always seems to be respectful and careful in his choice of words. El can be very scathing and blatantly hurtful at times... Which is somewhat excusable, if you consider he has over a thousand years of baggage the likes of which we could hardly imagine.
Faraer
12-12-06, 02:46 PM Shucks.He does sleep around a lot, but I won't hold that against him or Ed.All right, let's gossip. We don't actually know that. He's sired quite a few children -- but he's had a thousand years to do it in. He sometimes seems the 'randy old goat' -- but that's part of the act he keeps up. Since he and the Simbul fell in love, despite it not being any kind of monogamous marriage, he hasn't slept with anyone else that we know of.And he is Ed's alter-ego, but I'm perfectly willing to give the creator of the setting a place in it.No, he isn't. (Dan was right.) Ed's Realms alter ego is... himself, as we see in the Wizards Three articles.
The_Shaman
12-12-06, 03:20 PM Hey, let's be honest. Elminster has, as has been mentioned, been around for over a milennium, and is - if his stats are any guide - whimsical, free-spirited, and one heck of a charmer when he wants to be. During over 1000 years he might as well have had hundreds of children; it's possible, and it wouldn't be the first time it happens in fantasy (Howard's Conan would probably be even more prolific, considering his lifespan). Also, Faerun is, by and large, not a very puritannical place. At least two of the well-accepted deities (Sune and Sharess) run "festhalls" that would most likely be illegal under most current RL laws (Netherlands and New Zealand being some of the exceptions), and in many lands these would be more or less accepted. IIRC no major dogma has sex as shameful or immoral to the degree it is in Christianity or Islam, and besides, constant wars and racial enmity probably make people quite pragmatical on the issue of procreation. So one of the world's greatest wizards is a womanizer? Way better than creating zombies and skeletons, most people would say. Given that wizards tend to be perseived as more than a little eccentric, one who gets his hormones up every now and then would be practically welcome.

Edit: Then again, with the Symbul as a significant other, it's no wonder if he keeps to himself. A lover's quarrel between those two - not to mention a serious scandal - could lay waste to an entire region.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Elminster as a more actively involved NPC would be a bit unusual, as he tends to be involved with his own plans and parrying those of his major enemies - i.e. Szass Tam (sorry about the spelling if I got it wrong) or doing special jobs for Mystra or any of the Sisters. If the party is instrumental in any of these, or their goals coincide with his for a time, he could go with them for a while. However, it's possible that he's "undercover" at the time: he probably wouldn't wish to attract too much attention if he'd want to get anything done.
Crust
12-12-06, 08:38 PM He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf or Belgarath—in fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too.

"The Dragon... It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... [lightning strikes] WHOA! Like lightning! Yes, that's it."

I love that image. What a great film.

I always thought that Donald Sutherland would make a great Elminster. Call me crazy.

I would say use Elminster in the campaign as a mentor of sorts. I could bend my mind around the idea of Elminster simply popping in and out during certain moments to check in on the PCs. He might stick around for one or two rounds, maybe a few minutes, maybe a couple days, depending on the needs of the DM. He could provide advice, hand off a peculiar (and useful) magical item, clear out a dragon's lair (metaphorically, perhaps), and then disappear around a large stone, toadstool, or tree like the Dungeon Master from the old 80s cartoon. Don't forget his pipe! :P
BrianCritchley
12-13-06, 02:07 AM Elminister is best used as an occasional mentor and meddler he's not apt to travel with the players but he's certinly apt to set in motion events that well ensure the players get sucked in and do their part.
Asciiman
12-13-06, 04:39 AM In my opinion. Using Elminster is fine but I would never use him directly. Never as someone that actually does something nor would I use him as someone that tells the PC's what to do.

In fact I wouldn't even use him as he appears, I'd use him as someone that offers bits of information to the PC's while in disguise. This information in turn leads the group to conclusions and directions that Elminster desires. Only after they've accomplished his desiers would I reveal who offered the clues, and then subtly.

The point is, the more you can not use Elminster directly while still using him, the better. Remember, less is more.

Only in an epic campaign would I have him start to tell the PC's what to do directly, as at that point they in many ways(not all) are beyond his "using" of them.
Karsus the Mad
12-13-06, 05:08 AM "The Dragon... It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... [lightning strikes] WHOA! Like lightning! Yes, that's it."

I love that image. What a great film.
Excellent movie. Especially Merlin. I found some nice witty qoutes from the movie that sound a lot like something El would say to a group of 'too sure' adventures.
"Now look, I once stood exposed to the Dragon's Breath so that a man could lie one night with a woman. It took me nine moons to recover. And all for this lunacy called, "love, " this mad distemper that strikes down both beggar and king. Never again. Never."

"Remember, there's always something cleverer than yourself."

"You're not listening... well, your heart is not. Love is deaf as well as blind. That's it."

"Merlin: Looking at the cake is like looking at the future, until you've tasted it what do you really know? And then, of course, it's too late.
[Arthur takes a bite]
Merlin: Too late."

"I have walked my way since the beginning of time. Sometimes I give, sometimes I take, it is mine to know which and when!"
Lord Karsus
12-13-06, 09:27 AM ...that we know of...

-I guess that's the key phrase...:)
GothicDan
12-13-06, 10:03 AM I, too, love Merlin and the Excalibur movie (historical inaccuracies aside). The 'lightning' quote above is probably what really stuck to me. Surely it wasn't the semi-rape scene in the beginning that I watched for the first time with my mother when I was about 10....

Anyway, ever since I've read that quote from Ed, I've been really able to easily distinguish El from the Gandalf stereotype. Everyone should see that movie to understand the difference.
Halidan
12-13-06, 04:21 PM Anyway, ever since I've read that quote from Ed, I've been really able to easily distinguish El from the Gandalf stereotype. Everyone should see that movie to understand the difference.

I agree. Although I have to say that I liked the metal skullcap - certainly more than I liked El's new outfit in the FRCS. What were they thinking??? :confused:

One of the ways I've used Elminster as na NPC over the years is to either congradulate the PC's on a job well done, or to remind them that a particular idea or action was rather boneheaded.

For example, when my PC's had finished discovering a cure for the dreamfever in Daggerfalls, Elminster made a brief appearance at the feast that Lord Morngrym threw for the PC's. El congradulated the PC's on a job, "worthy of a song" and asked them what their plans were for the future. He gave no cryptic advice and offered nothing more substantial than a hearty thank-you. Still, my players were impressed.

On the pointing our a mistake end of things, my favorite example was when a young PC (a bard) used his bagpipes to specifically cause a loud noise "to scare the living ****" out of a horse ridden by his fellow adventurer - whom he knew had no ranks in the ride skill.

Since this was done on the main street of Shadowdale Village, I just had the horse panic and run straight for Elminster's back yard. The rider was thrown clear and once the PC's saw where the poor beast was headed, they ran after the horse, trying in vain to catch it before it reached the old Mages tower.

When they reached the back yard, they saw the horse frozen in mid-leap over Elminster's pond. The mage himself was standing near the pond. It seems his daily bathing had just been interupted by the charging horse and he now was preparing for the next wave of the attack.

I don't think I've ever smirked so much as I did while watching those players try to explain away the actions of their characters.:D They kept appologizing and begging El's pardon, while trying not to admit what had caused the horse to bolt in the first place.

Elminster knew something was up with the half-truth explainations, so he kept pushing for the whole story. I had the players sweating for a while. Eventualy they broke down and told El the truth - and then waited to be turned into toads.

El just stared at them in disbelief and then said simply, "that's almost certainly the stupidest thing I've heard a bunch of young adventurers do in the last several centuries." El then collected the remains of his dignity (along with his clothes) and walked into his tower. Again, the looks on their faces were priceless.
Lord Karsus
12-13-06, 05:33 PM :clap:-Priceless
Faraer
12-14-06, 09:58 AM I agree. Although I have to say that I liked the metal skullcap - certainly more than I liked El's new outfit in the FRCS. What were they thinking??? :confused:I fear they were trying to make him look superficially less like Gandalf (and, of course, greybeard sages in general), because as an 'icon' superficially is what counts, without trusting to what the character is really like. It was particularly daft because it exacerbated the central irony of the Elminster novels, that we see this wise old man going on young man's adventures (an irony which the books of course acknowledge).

The skullcap ended up with Jeff Easley's Drizzt instead.
Halidan
12-14-06, 03:07 PM The skullcap ended up with Jeff Easley's Drizzt instead.

Where it looked completely out of place. :D
Ramenth
12-14-06, 09:34 PM Idunno. I could see Elminster being a guide ala Gandolph, but only if the PC's didn't know who he was. It strikes me as a very Elmister-ish sort of thing to tag along and pretend to not be a chosen.

Edit: Having thought more about it, I do agree. He's not the sort who would actually travel with the PC's, but rather might strangely show up in many of the same towns/cities/villages that they do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadow810 12-11-06, 02:51 PM	is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster?
Faraer 12-11-06, 03:06 PM	Elminster of Shadowdale is a man with an extraordinary love for his friends, for knowledge and memory, and for all Faerūn, who has lived for centuries and seen many of those friends die because of his pact with the goddess Mystra, and is now immensely weary and half-mad with the energies he's held, the things he's seen, and the secrets he keeps. He hides that love beneath a wry, crotchety mask. He's a sage and, secondarily, a great mage of power who manipulates folk in a vastly complex web towards what he sees as best for Faerūn and for the Art. He has too many duties and threads to keep track of to accompany a single adventuring company for long periods, but if you need an entertaining, manipulative adviser character, there's no reason not to use him except that you might do better to use a character of your own creation who you'd be guaranteed to do justice to -- as I have not to Elminster in my description.
Lord Karsus 12-11-06, 06:07 PM	is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster? -Elminster is not the type to do things for himself very much. As Faerer alluded to, he is a meddler, who sets events in the directions he thinks will do the best. I don't think it would be unheard of for Elminster to have a PC party do his work for him. -As Faerer said, he is a busy guy, and shouldn't constantly be issuing orders to the PCs. But, he fits the role of the guy who gives them the push in the right directon quite nicely. El could be the guy who pops in from time to time, to tell the PCs where their next "mission" or "assignment" is. -As for what he might be doing during the Year of the Rogue Dragons...Being the wizened sage type, he would probably be involved with the group of sages from around Faerūn trying to put a stop to the Elven curse.
Old Sage 12-11-06, 07:42 PM	is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster?Here's a few thoughts from Ed, on Elminster, that should help -- He owes a little bit to the Old Storyteller of Thornton W. Burgess, a little bit to Merlin, a little bit to Gandalf, a trifle to Fagin, a trifle to the literary character Glencannon, a little bit more to the real-life (and long since sadly deceased) English comedian Michael Flanders, and so on.and -- He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf or Belgarath—in fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too.
miscellany 12-11-06, 11:40 PM	is it wrong to npc Elminster and play him as the guiding elder such as a Gandolph in the fellowship? No although what the other guys said means shouldn't be ignored either I would use him as much as you think is fun without having him do any of the player's work for them you know? and if not what role would he play in a dracorage based campaign with sammaster and the mythal? You know doesn't sammaster have some unfinished insanity based business left on his plate to deal with Elminster about? I guess it depends on where the campaign is headed are you guys gonna but heads with sammaster directly or just foil his plans kind of thing? I want to do justice to the great wizard so tell me about him in short. who is this man Elminster? Sorry can't top Faraer and that is straight up the truth the man knows his lore. When lore is practiced without prejudgement the loremonger becomes the loremaster! Praise be to Faraer! :clap:
GothicDan 12-12-06, 01:44 PM	As much as I resemble - I mean, reject - Miscalleny's last statement, I do agree that Faraer deserves some woots. Though, to me, judgment is the only natural, proper path for humanity to take in any and all of its endeavors. Since I'm an atheist, I believe that no power 'gives' us judgment, or proscribes morals to us. It's up to us to judge everything as we see fit. For instance, if someone had answered, "El is an annoying old wizard who sleeps around with everyone and is Ed's persona in the Realms," I'm pretty sure that Faraer (and myself, and Old Sage, and Lord Karsus, etc.) wouldn't feel all that bad about 'judging' that statement as patently false and even directly besmirching both Ed and El. A little more topical... I would probably never involve Elminster directly with my PCs. Certain rare exceptions would be threats directly relating to Shadowdale, the Chosen, the Weave, or (eo enforce El's character as being an actual person) something that the old sage holds dear (for purely emotional reasons).
Terraneaux 12-12-06, 01:58 PM	For instance, if someone had answered, "El is an annoying old wizard who sleeps around with everyone and is Ed's persona in the Realms," I'm pretty sure that Faraer (and myself, and Old Sage, and Lord Karsus, etc.) wouldn't feel all that bad about 'judging' that statement as patently false and even directly besmirching both Ed and El. None of those three things you mentioned are all bad things, though they are all pretty much true. Well, whether or not someone is annoying is pretty much a matter of opinion. He does sleep around a lot, but I won't hold that against him or Ed. And he is Ed's alter-ego, but I'm perfectly willing to give the creator of the setting a place in it. It's just that he shouldn't be overused, and he especially should not overshadow the PCs. Elminster should be used to add flavor to the setting; he's got a lot of history and such. But there's a fine line from the players going "Wow, we met Elminster, thats cool." to El going "I 4m t3h 4w3s0m3st m4g3 in f43run! D0 p3tty 3rr4nds f0r m3!"
GothicDan 12-12-06, 02:06 PM	He sleeps around a lot compared to whom? Basing it on real life standards would be a terrible reference, considering the world we live in is (culturally, religiously, ethically) little like that of the Realms in terms of personal freedoms. Very likely, your typical Realms person, regardless of status, sleeps around more than someone from Earth. And where exactly do you get the idea that he's Ed's alter-ego? He was used as a story character and a witty dispenser of DM's hints and wisdom, and then TSR told Ed that if he wanted to make money, he had to write all about him in novels and to narrate sourcebooks from his point of view. Just curious as to where you get that opinion. (Other than the 'it's obvious,' or 'it's common sense,' or the like.) I've made hundreds of characters (for RPGs and short stories); sure, they all have a bit of me in them, but none of them has ever been "me" personified. Why do you think Ed - who's created thousands of characters, if not more - would be any different? You're not implying that Ed considers himself to be Merlin, are you? ;) If anything, I see Oghma as a more likely candidate for Ed's personification (though even in saying that, I feel shaky, as I don't know much about him besides what I've read from his answers). He's a librarian, after all, and always seems to be respectful and careful in his choice of words. El can be very scathing and blatantly hurtful at times... Which is somewhat excusable, if you consider he has over a thousand years of baggage the likes of which we could hardly imagine.
Faraer 12-12-06, 02:46 PM	Shucks.He does sleep around a lot, but I won't hold that against him or Ed.All right, let's gossip. We don't actually know that. He's sired quite a few children -- but he's had a thousand years to do it in. He sometimes seems the 'randy old goat' -- but that's part of the act he keeps up. Since he and the Simbul fell in love, despite it not being any kind of monogamous marriage, he hasn't slept with anyone else that we know of.And he is Ed's alter-ego, but I'm perfectly willing to give the creator of the setting a place in it.No, he isn't. (Dan was right.) Ed's Realms alter ego is... himself, as we see in the Wizards Three articles.
The_Shaman 12-12-06, 03:20 PM	Hey, let's be honest. Elminster has, as has been mentioned, been around for over a milennium, and is - if his stats are any guide - whimsical, free-spirited, and one heck of a charmer when he wants to be. During over 1000 years he might as well have had hundreds of children; it's possible, and it wouldn't be the first time it happens in fantasy (Howard's Conan would probably be even more prolific, considering his lifespan). Also, Faerun is, by and large, not a very puritannical place. At least two of the well-accepted deities (Sune and Sharess) run "festhalls" that would most likely be illegal under most current RL laws (Netherlands and New Zealand being some of the exceptions), and in many lands these would be more or less accepted. IIRC no major dogma has sex as shameful or immoral to the degree it is in Christianity or Islam, and besides, constant wars and racial enmity probably make people quite pragmatical on the issue of procreation. So one of the world's greatest wizards is a womanizer? Way better than creating zombies and skeletons, most people would say. Given that wizards tend to be perseived as more than a little eccentric, one who gets his hormones up every now and then would be practically welcome. Edit: Then again, with the Symbul as a significant other, it's no wonder if he keeps to himself. A lover's quarrel between those two - not to mention a serious scandal - could lay waste to an entire region. Anyway, sorry for the rant. Elminster as a more actively involved NPC would be a bit unusual, as he tends to be involved with his own plans and parrying those of his major enemies - i.e. Szass Tam (sorry about the spelling if I got it wrong) or doing special jobs for Mystra or any of the Sisters. If the party is instrumental in any of these, or their goals coincide with his for a time, he could go with them for a while. However, it's possible that he's "undercover" at the time: he probably wouldn't wish to attract too much attention if he'd want to get anything done.
Crust 12-12-06, 08:38 PM	He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf or Belgarath—in fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too. "The Dragon... It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... [lightning strikes] WHOA! Like lightning! Yes, that's it." I love that image. What a great film. I always thought that Donald Sutherland would make a great Elminster. Call me crazy. I would say use Elminster in the campaign as a mentor of sorts. I could bend my mind around the idea of Elminster simply popping in and out during certain moments to check in on the PCs. He might stick around for one or two rounds, maybe a few minutes, maybe a couple days, depending on the needs of the DM. He could provide advice, hand off a peculiar (and useful) magical item, clear out a dragon's lair (metaphorically, perhaps), and then disappear around a large stone, toadstool, or tree like the Dungeon Master from the old 80s cartoon. Don't forget his pipe! :P
BrianCritchley 12-13-06, 02:07 AM	Elminister is best used as an occasional mentor and meddler he's not apt to travel with the players but he's certinly apt to set in motion events that well ensure the players get sucked in and do their part.
Asciiman 12-13-06, 04:39 AM	In my opinion. Using Elminster is fine but I would never use him directly. Never as someone that actually does something nor would I use him as someone that tells the PC's what to do. In fact I wouldn't even use him as he appears, I'd use him as someone that offers bits of information to the PC's while in disguise. This information in turn leads the group to conclusions and directions that Elminster desires. Only after they've accomplished his desiers would I reveal who offered the clues, and then subtly. The point is, the more you can not use Elminster directly while still using him, the better. Remember, less is more. Only in an epic campaign would I have him start to tell the PC's what to do directly, as at that point they in many ways(not all) are beyond his "using" of them.
Karsus the Mad 12-13-06, 05:08 AM	"The Dragon... It is everywhere. It is everything. Its scales glisten in the bark of trees. Its roar is heard in the wind. And its forked tongue strikes like... [lightning strikes] WHOA! Like lightning! Yes, that's it." I love that image. What a great film. Excellent movie. Especially Merlin. I found some nice witty qoutes from the movie that sound a lot like something El would say to a group of 'too sure' adventures. "Now look, I once stood exposed to the Dragon's Breath so that a man could lie one night with a woman. It took me nine moons to recover. And all for this lunacy called, "love, " this mad distemper that strikes down both beggar and king. Never again. Never." "Remember, there's always something cleverer than yourself." "You're not listening... well, your heart is not. Love is deaf as well as blind. That's it." "Merlin: Looking at the cake is like looking at the future, until you've tasted it what do you really know? And then, of course, it's too late. [Arthur takes a bite] Merlin: Too late." "I have walked my way since the beginning of time. Sometimes I give, sometimes I take, it is mine to know which and when!"
Lord Karsus 12-13-06, 09:27 AM	...that we know of... -I guess that's the key phrase...:)
GothicDan 12-13-06, 10:03 AM	I, too, love Merlin and the Excalibur movie (historical inaccuracies aside). The 'lightning' quote above is probably what really stuck to me. Surely it wasn't the semi-rape scene in the beginning that I watched for the first time with my mother when I was about 10.... Anyway, ever since I've read that quote from Ed, I've been really able to easily distinguish El from the Gandalf stereotype. Everyone should see that movie to understand the difference.
Halidan 12-13-06, 04:21 PM	Anyway, ever since I've read that quote from Ed, I've been really able to easily distinguish El from the Gandalf stereotype. Everyone should see that movie to understand the difference. I agree. Although I have to say that I liked the metal skullcap - certainly more than I liked El's new outfit in the FRCS. What were they thinking??? :confused: One of the ways I've used Elminster as na NPC over the years is to either congradulate the PC's on a job well done, or to remind them that a particular idea or action was rather boneheaded. For example, when my PC's had finished discovering a cure for the dreamfever in Daggerfalls, Elminster made a brief appearance at the feast that Lord Morngrym threw for the PC's. El congradulated the PC's on a job, "worthy of a song" and asked them what their plans were for the future. He gave no cryptic advice and offered nothing more substantial than a hearty thank-you. Still, my players were impressed. On the pointing our a mistake end of things, my favorite example was when a young PC (a bard) used his bagpipes to specifically cause a loud noise "to scare the living ****" out of a horse ridden by his fellow adventurer - whom he knew had no ranks in the ride skill. Since this was done on the main street of Shadowdale Village, I just had the horse panic and run straight for Elminster's back yard. The rider was thrown clear and once the PC's saw where the poor beast was headed, they ran after the horse, trying in vain to catch it before it reached the old Mages tower. When they reached the back yard, they saw the horse frozen in mid-leap over Elminster's pond. The mage himself was standing near the pond. It seems his daily bathing had just been interupted by the charging horse and he now was preparing for the next wave of the attack. I don't think I've ever smirked so much as I did while watching those players try to explain away the actions of their characters.:D They kept appologizing and begging El's pardon, while trying not to admit what had caused the horse to bolt in the first place. Elminster knew something was up with the half-truth explainations, so he kept pushing for the whole story. I had the players sweating for a while. Eventualy they broke down and told El the truth - and then waited to be turned into toads. El just stared at them in disbelief and then said simply, "that's almost certainly the stupidest thing I've heard a bunch of young adventurers do in the last several centuries." El then collected the remains of his dignity (along with his clothes) and walked into his tower. Again, the looks on their faces were priceless.
Lord Karsus 12-13-06, 05:33 PM	:clap:-Priceless
Faraer 12-14-06, 09:58 AM	I agree. Although I have to say that I liked the metal skullcap - certainly more than I liked El's new outfit in the FRCS. What were they thinking??? :confused:I fear they were trying to make him look superficially less like Gandalf (and, of course, greybeard sages in general), because as an 'icon' superficially is what counts, without trusting to what the character is really like. It was particularly daft because it exacerbated the central irony of the Elminster novels, that we see this wise old man going on young man's adventures (an irony which the books of course acknowledge). The skullcap ended up with Jeff Easley's Drizzt instead.
Halidan 12-14-06, 03:07 PM	The skullcap ended up with Jeff Easley's Drizzt instead. Where it looked completely out of place. :D
Ramenth 12-14-06, 09:34 PM	Idunno. I could see Elminster being a guide ala Gandolph, but only if the PC's didn't know who he was. It strikes me as a very Elmister-ish sort of thing to tag along and pretend to not be a chosen. Edit: Having thought more about it, I do agree. He's not the sort who would actually travel with the PC's, but rather might strangely show up in many of the same towns/cities/villages that they do.