Old School [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Old School [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
druid berrymore
02-08-04, 01:41 PM Are there going to be any releases like the old books? These days it seems like every book is a collection of spells, prestige classes, items, etc. Silver Marches was good, but I have a feeling that it was only because Greenwood was involved. I like to sit down with a book and get a good picture of what an area is like. You know, geography, flora, fauna, maps, art(by art I mean images of actual characters...not some unknown warrior swinging his sword at me. Overhead drawings of locations are also nice). The 3rd edition books seem to devote about a third of the pages to telling me what the area is actually like. The rest is fluff. It is nice to have more of that fluff, but it is fluff none the less. That stuff should be in a separate book. Am I alone here?

I loved stuff like:
Waterdeep and the North
Moonshae
The Atlas ***Awsome***
All of those black cover books(Code of the Harpers, etc)
Volo's guides
The boxed sets

Personally I've stopped buying 3rd edition FR books, cause they just don't seem to be worth the money. I have the Campaign Setting, Silver Marches, Unaproachable Eeat, Underdark, Lord of Darkness, and City of the Spider Queen. If...and only if Serpent Kingdoms is good, I'll buy it. But it better be filled with information that makes me feel like it is real.

Does anyone know of any other books coming out, other than the Players Guide(cough), Serpent Kingdoms, and Waterdeep?
Faraer
02-08-04, 04:14 PM No, no Realmslore-centric books under the current regime, which caters to people who don't use the Realms as well as those who do, hence the foregrounding of rules pap. No, you're not alone. Serpent Kingdoms is largely by Ed Greenwood and Eric Boyd, and will probably suit you more than the last two books.
J. Grenemyer
02-08-04, 07:54 PM Hello druid berrymore,

I’m afraid I don’t know of any other new books besides the ones you’ve mentioned (PGtF, Serpent Kingdoms and Waterdeep).

FWIW I found Races of Faerūn, Unaproachable East and (in particular) Underdark to be very fluff filled.

It should be noted that other than owning (and rather quickly loosing) my old Thay book over a decade ago, I don’t own any source material specific to the regions covered by those three books (yes, much of what is in RoF is tied to geography) so those books gave me my first in-close looks at those regions.

Originally posted by Faraer
No, no Realmslore-centric books under the current regime, which caters to people who don't use the Realms as well as those who do…

Druid, I wouldn’t let this false characterization fool you. The “regime” (as Faraer so blithely puts it) is far more concerned with the survival of the Realms (in a business sense) than its previous owners ever were, and is entirely interested in producing product that fits the interests of a vast majority of gamers out there.

As for me, I enjoy “just reading” about the Realms as much as the next long time fan, but I’m not so selfish in my enjoyment to demand that “fluff-only” tomes (which are guaranteed to sell minimally and ensure the game designers all loose their jobs within 6 months time) be all that is ever released.

Have a nice day!

:D
Faraer
02-08-04, 08:27 PM What's false?

Regime ('mode of rule or management') is a good enough word to describe the set of people in charge of publishing the Realms, and it conveys the tendency of regimes to change as well as hinting vaguely humorously at their doing some things I don't like.

I don't mean to imply Races of Faerūn or Silver Marches are short on lore, but the amount compared to earlier books, and the way the rules stuff is being placed at the front, show that the lore is not the priority.

'Vast majority' is certainly wrong: most gamers don't buy Realms products at all. You can (at least in the short term) sell more books by appealing in part to people not using the Realms, and there is truth to rules material being popular, but even the people with the sales data don't have the information (did this sell better because of X or Y?) to fully justify the 'rules over else' belief, which I suspect is something of a dogma and self-fulfilling prophecy. (People with access to sales data in the 90s have come to different conclusions.) Given that perception, I can't fault any of those people individually, but I don't believe the Realms is helped in the long term by fitting it into other moulds instead of playing to its strengths. The big elephant here is WotC's overheads and need for bigger profit margins than smaller companies, who could probably produce more Greenwood-direction sourcebooks very comfortably.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
druid berrymore 02-08-04, 01:41 PM	Are there going to be any releases like the old books? These days it seems like every book is a collection of spells, prestige classes, items, etc. Silver Marches was good, but I have a feeling that it was only because Greenwood was involved. I like to sit down with a book and get a good picture of what an area is like. You know, geography, flora, fauna, maps, art(by art I mean images of actual characters...not some unknown warrior swinging his sword at me. Overhead drawings of locations are also nice). The 3rd edition books seem to devote about a third of the pages to telling me what the area is actually like. The rest is fluff. It is nice to have more of that fluff, but it is fluff none the less. That stuff should be in a separate book. Am I alone here? I loved stuff like: Waterdeep and the North Moonshae The Atlas *Awsome* All of those black cover books(Code of the Harpers, etc) Volo's guides The boxed sets Personally I've stopped buying 3rd edition FR books, cause they just don't seem to be worth the money. I have the Campaign Setting, Silver Marches, Unaproachable Eeat, Underdark, Lord of Darkness, and City of the Spider Queen. If...and only if Serpent Kingdoms is good, I'll buy it. But it better be filled with information that makes me feel like it is real. Does anyone know of any other books coming out, other than the Players Guide(cough), Serpent Kingdoms, and Waterdeep?
Faraer 02-08-04, 04:14 PM	No, no Realmslore-centric books under the current regime, which caters to people who don't use the Realms as well as those who do, hence the foregrounding of rules pap. No, you're not alone. Serpent Kingdoms is largely by Ed Greenwood and Eric Boyd, and will probably suit you more than the last two books.
J. Grenemyer 02-08-04, 07:54 PM	Hello druid berrymore, I’m afraid I don’t know of any other new books besides the ones you’ve mentioned (PGtF, Serpent Kingdoms and Waterdeep). FWIW I found Races of Faerūn, Unaproachable East and (in particular) Underdark to be very fluff filled. It should be noted that other than owning (and rather quickly loosing) my old Thay book over a decade ago, I don’t own any source material specific to the regions covered by those three books (yes, much of what is in RoF is tied to geography) so those books gave me my first in-close looks at those regions. Originally posted by Faraer No, no Realmslore-centric books under the current regime, which caters to people who don't use the Realms as well as those who do… Druid, I wouldn’t let this false characterization fool you. The “regime” (as Faraer so blithely puts it) is far more concerned with the survival of the Realms (in a business sense) than its previous owners ever were, and is entirely interested in producing product that fits the interests of a vast majority of gamers out there. As for me, I enjoy “just reading” about the Realms as much as the next long time fan, but I’m not so selfish in my enjoyment to demand that “fluff-only” tomes (which are guaranteed to sell minimally and ensure the game designers all loose their jobs within 6 months time) be all that is ever released. Have a nice day! :D
Faraer 02-08-04, 08:27 PM	What's false? Regime ('mode of rule or management') is a good enough word to describe the set of people in charge of publishing the Realms, and it conveys the tendency of regimes to change as well as hinting vaguely humorously at their doing some things I don't like. I don't mean to imply Races of Faerūn or Silver Marches are short on lore, but the amount compared to earlier books, and the way the rules stuff is being placed at the front, show that the lore is not the priority. 'Vast majority' is certainly wrong: most gamers don't buy Realms products at all. You can (at least in the short term) sell more books by appealing in part to people not using the Realms, and there is truth to rules material being popular, but even the people with the sales data don't have the information (did this sell better because of X or Y?) to fully justify the 'rules over else' belief, which I suspect is something of a dogma and self-fulfilling prophecy. (People with access to sales data in the 90s have come to different conclusions.) Given that perception, I can't fault any of those people individually, but I don't believe the Realms is helped in the long term by fitting it into other moulds instead of playing to its strengths. The big elephant here is WotC's overheads and need for bigger profit margins than smaller companies, who could probably produce more Greenwood-direction sourcebooks very comfortably.