Paladin of the Elves? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Paladin of the Elves? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mythrus
01-10-06, 09:44 AM I had such a good feeback last time from this community that I wasted no time in thought and just posted this here. =)

Anyone know if there is any source material for Paladins of the Selundrin? (sp)

I have a new player that wants to play an elven paladin to fit in with my all elf grp and I really dont want to restrict him to being LG.
Any help would be much appreciated =)

Thanks,
Mythrus
Thaingrim
01-10-06, 10:51 AM you could use the alternative paladins from UA ( pal of freedom , or something like thet, don't have my books here, is a CG pal... would fit just fine)

you can also use the substitution lvls from races of the wild , though i don't believe that will change your alignement otpions....
Vvornth
01-10-06, 11:07 AM Since WotC made its 180 for Paladins in 3e there has been little info on demihuman Paladins. The reason is simple, the players did not approve of this course of action that made no explaination how elven Paladins suddenly popped up.
Lord Karsus
01-10-06, 11:27 AM -Didn't we just go through this? There's already a post laying around somewhere about this. Heh, ask GothicDan his feelings on Elven Paladins.

-To give you the quick version, the general consensus was that Elves cannot have Paladins, since they are much too free-spirited. The closest thing was the Guardian of Corellon, or something like that, in Races of the Wild.
Vvornth
01-10-06, 12:06 PM GothicDan>

What are your feelings on Elven Paladins?
Velkar
01-10-06, 12:17 PM The Prestige class is Champion of Corellon Larethian and if you read class description you can see then few of the Champion was Paladin at the start.
DreamStalker
01-10-06, 12:19 PM here is the link the previous thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=556270) on this. It was under Magic, Deities and the Cosmos section of Forgotten Realms in case my linking was subpar.

Oh, to respond to the above: To those who did not understand WotC's reasons that elf paladins popped up. The same way demihuman bards, demihuman druids, gnome generalist wizards, feats, even xp for all classes, shadow weave, wands staves and rods being specific different classes of items, item creation no longer taking constitution, elves being able to be resurrected normally, ect ect: A new edition rules. Yes I am being a smart mouth:)

Also, I will have to disagree about the above conclusion about the discussion. I feel there were multiple differing sets of basic views. One even showed there is a canon way for an elf to be a paladin of a seldarine god if you agree with the premise than material not yet updated is still canon.
Faraer
01-10-06, 12:31 PM Mythrus, if the character you and the player have in mind is not LG, that isn't a paladin, so the question is moot. In my view the best class for an elven champion of Corellon Larethian is fighter/cleric, cleric, or fighter/mage; prestige classes aren't a consideration for a starting character, anyway.

There's no doubt that 'material not yet updated is still canon' -- the alternative is just a recurring, long debunked messageboard rumour. But there's ambiguity over whether Chris Perry's article (if that's what we're talking about) was Realms canon in the first place.
DreamStalker
01-10-06, 12:40 PM Does anyone have the issue with the article in question and can confirm if it is specifically a FR article?
Kuje31
01-10-06, 01:11 PM Does anyone have the issue with the article in question and can confirm if it is specifically a FR article?

As I said in that other thread, I fail how to see that it isn't. Lets list FR items that appear in the article:

Mythals.
Elven history when elves ruled the lands.
Malar.
Askalvar in the Wood of the Sharp Teeth.
Mask.
Talos.
The date of Ches 12th.
The Western Heartlands.
Eldath.
Malyk (Talos).
Velsharoon.

So, of course this is an FR article.
Lord Karsus
01-10-06, 01:35 PM As I said in that other thread, I fail how to see that it isn't. Lets list FR items that appear in the article:

Mythals.
Elven history when elves ruled the lands.
Malar.
Askalvar in the Wood of the Sharp Teeth.
Mask.
Talos.
The date of Ches 12th.
The Western Heartlands.
Eldath.
Malyk (Talos).
Velsharoon.

So, of course this is an FR article.

-I don't know the article in question, but that above list gives overwhelming proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that it discusses the Forgotten Realms.
Zevox
01-10-06, 02:38 PM Personally, for CG Paladins I use the Holy Liberator PrC from Complete Divine. I prefer to differentiate between Paladins and similar but different in outlook classes by thier name - ergo I use Blackguards for evil Paladins rather than "Paladins of Tyrrany/Slaughter/ect." from Unearthed Arcana, and Holy Liberators for CG Paladins rather than "Paladins of Freedom". Though thats just me. You could use either Paladins of Freedom or Holy Liberators for CG Paladins, or something entirely different (Divine Champions, for example). Theres plenty of options out there.

Zevox
GothicDan
01-10-06, 02:46 PM If I saw an Elven Paladin of the Seldarine, I think I'd explode.

And bite the player's head off.

Tyrannical? Me? Never.
Mythrus
01-10-06, 03:32 PM Thanks for the info ... I'm sorry if this concept/issue was on a previous post. I did look through the forums but I do not have all that much time during the day to go through every post there is to find it.
I will have to work on this. I do beleive that each god should have it's own divine champion in the form of a Paladin.

I will look at the Unearthed Arcana book and varius other source materials and work up something for my player.

Thanks all =)

Mythrus
Velkar
01-10-06, 03:52 PM The quickest way to become champion of Corellon Larenthian is to advance as a fighter due to the difficult feat requirements. However, a level of Cleric, Paladin, or rogue (preferably Paladin, because it maximizes base attack bonus) will be quit useful in meeting skill requirement.

Race of Wild page: 113 in Becoming a Champion of Corellon

Entry Requirements
Race: Elf or half-Elf
Alignement: Any nonevil
Special Must workship of Corellon Larethian

Race of Wild page: 114
Gellion
01-10-06, 03:57 PM If I saw an Elven Paladin of the Seldarine, I think I'd explode.

And bite the player's head off.

Tyrannical? Me? Never.

Good thing you dont play in my group. We play in the realms and we have an Elven Paldin of Corellon Larethian. :)
GothicDan
01-10-06, 04:00 PM I think that each deity should have a grup of martial characters that fit their specific dogmas/personalities/portfolios.

The Paladin concept is nothing like any of the Seldarine present in FR lore.

Good thing you dont play in my group. We play in the realms and we have an Elven Paldin of Corellon Larethian.

That would probably make me quit, actually. Printed in plain black and white in previous lore, it says that Corellon Larethian does not WANT Paladins. Given he's a Chaotic God, that makes sense.
Gellion
01-10-06, 04:07 PM I think that each deity should have a grup of martial characters that fit their specific dogmas/personalities/portfolios.

The Paladin concept is nothing like any of the Seldarine present in FR lore.

That would probably make me quit, actually. Printed in plain black and white in previous lore, it says that Corellon Larethian does not WANT Paladins. Given he's a Chaotic God, that makes sense.

I know but my DM nor any of my players care much. My whole group is pretty casual about lore and what not. :)
GothicDan
01-11-06, 01:11 AM Not to be offensive, but what is the point in even using established material if you're going to change it all? Is it mostly because the DM isn't willing or abe to devote enough time/effort into making his own stuff?
Another Gnome
01-11-06, 03:32 AM I think that each deity should have a grup of martial characters that fit their specific dogmas/personalities/portfolios.

Every deity does have those. They're called 'fighters'. :)
GothicDan
01-11-06, 03:40 AM They certainly well may be. Of course, a deity's dogma and personal tastes may result in them encouraging/sponsoring a unique order altogether. :) Deities have personalities too, remember, and if a deity came to me and said, "Hey, you want to be all special and be my special champion and get powers those other silly kids at the Fighter School never dreamed of?" I'd at least perk my ears to hear the offer out.
Another Gnome
01-11-06, 04:01 AM Aye. Now, I was referring more to a "where does it say you can only serve a deity if you're given special powers in exchange" line of thinking. You know, have the characters shape themselves to fit their faith instead of the deity doing all the work for them...
GothicDan
01-11-06, 04:40 AM Of course, but if said person ended up being important or special to the deity, he or she would most likely grant him special abilities - such is the case with Specialty Priests (valued more than generic clerics), Chosen, and Proxies. :)
Dargoth
01-11-06, 05:40 AM Im actually working on a Crusader class for an article for Candlekeep (Which should Bane willing be finished by the end of themonth)

Its based on the Paladin class but the class isnt specfic to one alignment although a Crusader has to share the same Alignment as the deity he serves

The changes include the following

Smite Evil has been replaced with Smite Infidel (See Divine Champion PrC for how this works, the article will include an expanded Deific Grudge match table using material from F&A, P&P and DhD)

Instead of casting Cure Disease a Crusader can casts Weapon of the Deity

Paladin mount has been replaced with planar mount, which the Crusader gets at 6th level. The base creature and avaliable templates that can be applied to them differ from deity to deity

Instead of Detect Evil the Crusader can detect infidels
GothicDan
01-11-06, 12:47 PM That's a 90% increase. The only modification I would make to make it a 100+% increase would be to tailor a few abilities (or perhaps only even one) to each Crusader of a specific deity. For example, a Crusader of Mystra should be able to Dispel and/or Detect Magic, a Crusader of Sune may be able to use Eagle's Splendor, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mythrus 01-10-06, 09:44 AM	I had such a good feeback last time from this community that I wasted no time in thought and just posted this here. =) Anyone know if there is any source material for Paladins of the Selundrin? (sp) I have a new player that wants to play an elven paladin to fit in with my all elf grp and I really dont want to restrict him to being LG. Any help would be much appreciated =) Thanks, Mythrus
Thaingrim 01-10-06, 10:51 AM	you could use the alternative paladins from UA ( pal of freedom , or something like thet, don't have my books here, is a CG pal... would fit just fine) you can also use the substitution lvls from races of the wild , though i don't believe that will change your alignement otpions....
Vvornth 01-10-06, 11:07 AM	Since WotC made its 180 for Paladins in 3e there has been little info on demihuman Paladins. The reason is simple, the players did not approve of this course of action that made no explaination how elven Paladins suddenly popped up.
Lord Karsus 01-10-06, 11:27 AM	-Didn't we just go through this? There's already a post laying around somewhere about this. Heh, ask GothicDan his feelings on Elven Paladins. -To give you the quick version, the general consensus was that Elves cannot have Paladins, since they are much too free-spirited. The closest thing was the Guardian of Corellon, or something like that, in Races of the Wild.
Vvornth 01-10-06, 12:06 PM	GothicDan> What are your feelings on Elven Paladins?
Velkar 01-10-06, 12:17 PM	The Prestige class is Champion of Corellon Larethian and if you read class description you can see then few of the Champion was Paladin at the start.
DreamStalker 01-10-06, 12:19 PM	here is the link the previous thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=556270) on this. It was under Magic, Deities and the Cosmos section of Forgotten Realms in case my linking was subpar. Oh, to respond to the above: To those who did not understand WotC's reasons that elf paladins popped up. The same way demihuman bards, demihuman druids, gnome generalist wizards, feats, even xp for all classes, shadow weave, wands staves and rods being specific different classes of items, item creation no longer taking constitution, elves being able to be resurrected normally, ect ect: A new edition rules. Yes I am being a smart mouth:) Also, I will have to disagree about the above conclusion about the discussion. I feel there were multiple differing sets of basic views. One even showed there is a canon way for an elf to be a paladin of a seldarine god if you agree with the premise than material not yet updated is still canon.
Faraer 01-10-06, 12:31 PM	Mythrus, if the character you and the player have in mind is not LG, that isn't a paladin, so the question is moot. In my view the best class for an elven champion of Corellon Larethian is fighter/cleric, cleric, or fighter/mage; prestige classes aren't a consideration for a starting character, anyway. There's no doubt that 'material not yet updated is still canon' -- the alternative is just a recurring, long debunked messageboard rumour. But there's ambiguity over whether Chris Perry's article (if that's what we're talking about) was Realms canon in the first place.
DreamStalker 01-10-06, 12:40 PM	Does anyone have the issue with the article in question and can confirm if it is specifically a FR article?
Kuje31 01-10-06, 01:11 PM	Does anyone have the issue with the article in question and can confirm if it is specifically a FR article? As I said in that other thread, I fail how to see that it isn't. Lets list FR items that appear in the article: Mythals. Elven history when elves ruled the lands. Malar. Askalvar in the Wood of the Sharp Teeth. Mask. Talos. The date of Ches 12th. The Western Heartlands. Eldath. Malyk (Talos). Velsharoon. So, of course this is an FR article.
Lord Karsus 01-10-06, 01:35 PM	As I said in that other thread, I fail how to see that it isn't. Lets list FR items that appear in the article: Mythals. Elven history when elves ruled the lands. Malar. Askalvar in the Wood of the Sharp Teeth. Mask. Talos. The date of Ches 12th. The Western Heartlands. Eldath. Malyk (Talos). Velsharoon. So, of course this is an FR article. -I don't know the article in question, but that above list gives overwhelming proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that it discusses the Forgotten Realms.
Zevox 01-10-06, 02:38 PM	Personally, for CG Paladins I use the Holy Liberator PrC from Complete Divine. I prefer to differentiate between Paladins and similar but different in outlook classes by thier name - ergo I use Blackguards for evil Paladins rather than "Paladins of Tyrrany/Slaughter/ect." from Unearthed Arcana, and Holy Liberators for CG Paladins rather than "Paladins of Freedom". Though thats just me. You could use either Paladins of Freedom or Holy Liberators for CG Paladins, or something entirely different (Divine Champions, for example). Theres plenty of options out there. Zevox
GothicDan 01-10-06, 02:46 PM	If I saw an Elven Paladin of the Seldarine, I think I'd explode. And bite the player's head off. Tyrannical? Me? Never.
Mythrus 01-10-06, 03:32 PM	Thanks for the info ... I'm sorry if this concept/issue was on a previous post. I did look through the forums but I do not have all that much time during the day to go through every post there is to find it. I will have to work on this. I do beleive that each god should have it's own divine champion in the form of a Paladin. I will look at the Unearthed Arcana book and varius other source materials and work up something for my player. Thanks all =) Mythrus
Velkar 01-10-06, 03:52 PM	The quickest way to become champion of Corellon Larenthian is to advance as a fighter due to the difficult feat requirements. However, a level of Cleric, Paladin, or rogue (preferably Paladin, because it maximizes base attack bonus) will be quit useful in meeting skill requirement. Race of Wild page: 113 in Becoming a Champion of Corellon Entry Requirements Race: Elf or half-Elf Alignement: Any nonevil Special Must workship of Corellon Larethian Race of Wild page: 114
Gellion 01-10-06, 03:57 PM	If I saw an Elven Paladin of the Seldarine, I think I'd explode. And bite the player's head off. Tyrannical? Me? Never. Good thing you dont play in my group. We play in the realms and we have an Elven Paldin of Corellon Larethian. :)
GothicDan 01-10-06, 04:00 PM	I think that each deity should have a grup of martial characters that fit their specific dogmas/personalities/portfolios. The Paladin concept is nothing like any of the Seldarine present in FR lore. Good thing you dont play in my group. We play in the realms and we have an Elven Paldin of Corellon Larethian. That would probably make me quit, actually. Printed in plain black and white in previous lore, it says that Corellon Larethian does not WANT Paladins. Given he's a Chaotic God, that makes sense.
Gellion 01-10-06, 04:07 PM	I think that each deity should have a grup of martial characters that fit their specific dogmas/personalities/portfolios. The Paladin concept is nothing like any of the Seldarine present in FR lore. That would probably make me quit, actually. Printed in plain black and white in previous lore, it says that Corellon Larethian does not WANT Paladins. Given he's a Chaotic God, that makes sense. I know but my DM nor any of my players care much. My whole group is pretty casual about lore and what not. :)
GothicDan 01-11-06, 01:11 AM	Not to be offensive, but what is the point in even using established material if you're going to change it all? Is it mostly because the DM isn't willing or abe to devote enough time/effort into making his own stuff?
Another Gnome 01-11-06, 03:32 AM	I think that each deity should have a grup of martial characters that fit their specific dogmas/personalities/portfolios. Every deity does have those. They're called 'fighters'. :)
GothicDan 01-11-06, 03:40 AM	They certainly well may be. Of course, a deity's dogma and personal tastes may result in them encouraging/sponsoring a unique order altogether. :) Deities have personalities too, remember, and if a deity came to me and said, "Hey, you want to be all special and be my special champion and get powers those other silly kids at the Fighter School never dreamed of?" I'd at least perk my ears to hear the offer out.
Another Gnome 01-11-06, 04:01 AM	Aye. Now, I was referring more to a "where does it say you can only serve a deity if you're given special powers in exchange" line of thinking. You know, have the characters shape themselves to fit their faith instead of the deity doing all the work for them...
GothicDan 01-11-06, 04:40 AM	Of course, but if said person ended up being important or special to the deity, he or she would most likely grant him special abilities - such is the case with Specialty Priests (valued more than generic clerics), Chosen, and Proxies. :)
Dargoth 01-11-06, 05:40 AM	Im actually working on a Crusader class for an article for Candlekeep (Which should Bane willing be finished by the end of themonth) Its based on the Paladin class but the class isnt specfic to one alignment although a Crusader has to share the same Alignment as the deity he serves The changes include the following Smite Evil has been replaced with Smite Infidel (See Divine Champion PrC for how this works, the article will include an expanded Deific Grudge match table using material from F&A, P&P and DhD) Instead of casting Cure Disease a Crusader can casts Weapon of the Deity Paladin mount has been replaced with planar mount, which the Crusader gets at 6th level. The base creature and avaliable templates that can be applied to them differ from deity to deity Instead of Detect Evil the Crusader can detect infidels
GothicDan 01-11-06, 12:47 PM	That's a 90% increase. The only modification I would make to make it a 100+% increase would be to tailor a few abilities (or perhaps only even one) to each Crusader of a specific deity. For example, a Crusader of Mystra should be able to Dispel and/or Detect Magic, a Crusader of Sune may be able to use Eagle's Splendor, etc.