PGtF Ambiguities [Archive] - Wizards Community

PGtF Ambiguities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Raven Dark
04-28-04, 12:32 PM I have noticed that in several, several areas of the PGtF the creator's fail to explain several points. I would have spoken up long ago, but I was hopeful for a FAQ or Erratta to come out. It never did, so I am asking my questions here in hopes that the WizOs and others can see them and send them to WotC so that we may one day have a FAQ on this book.

ARCANE SCHOOLING
The only question I have, though, is whether the effective arcane level you get from this feat stacks with the same kind of levels you pick up later.

Say you are a level one Cleric with this feat. Lets say you picked Wizard as your feat choice and now cast from Wands and Staves as if you were a Cleric 1/Wizard 1. If you pick up four more levels of Wizard, will you cast spells from the Wands and Staves as if you were a Cleric 1/Wizard 5 or as a Cleric 1/Wizard 4?

BLOODED & BULLHEADED
Fear effects stack, right? How does immunity to the Shaken effect, affect the stacking properties of fear?

FLEET OF FOOT
Does the speed bonus stack with magical items o spell enhancements or not? It apparently stacks with class ability bonuses to speed.

FOE HUNTER
How does the new Favored Enemy work exactly? Let's say you chose Cormyr for this feat. Do you get a flat +2 bonus VS Goblinoids, a +2 bonus VS Goblinoids and another +2 bonus to a second Favored Enemy (if you were a Ranger), or do you get a +4 bonus to Goblinoids if there are no other favored enemies (if you weren't a Ranger). If you already had Goblinoids as a Favored Enemy, do the bonuses from this feat and the class ability stack? This is, I think, the most ambiguous feat of all.

FORGEHEART
Does the Fire Resitance 5 stack with other forms of Fire Resitance or not?

KNIFEFIGHTER
The Benefit section and the Normal section seem to imply a contradiction of each other as to whether you can make a full attack with the light weapon in the same round in which you drew it out. The "...provided you already have your weapon drawn." line causes a bit of ambiguity. Can you or can you not draw out your light weapon and then make a full attack with it in the same round?

MAGICAL ARTISAN
The word "cost" can mean Gold, XP, or both. Which is it? Also, does it just reduce the base price of the item, or does it reduce miscellaneous costs as well (such as material components)? What is the "cost" in which this feat refers to?

OTHERWORLDLY
How does becoming a Native Outsider effect things like Favored Enemy? Lets say you were a Humanoid (Elf) and with this feat you became a Native Outsider (Elf). Does the Orc Ranger with his Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Elf) still apply his bonuses against you or not?

REACTIVE COUNTERSPELL
Does the use of this feat effect your initiative count at all?

SPELL THEMATICS
Does the "theme" effect all of your spells or just the +2 caster level thematic spells?

That's all I have for now. Even so, I know there are more throughout the book and I will likely be back later to add them. If you have your own questions or have spotted more ambiguities, feel free to post them here. Hopefully a WizO will show this thread to a WotC official or something and we can get a PGtF FAQ out soon. You're welcome to try answering these questions as well if you are sure of your answer and have something to back it up.
Lashan
04-28-04, 04:09 PM KNIFEFIGHTER
The Benefit section and the Normal section seem to imply a contradiction of each other as to whether you can make a full attack with the light weapon in the same round in which you drew it out. The "...provided you already have your weapon drawn." line causes a bit of ambiguity. Can you or can you not draw out your light weapon and then make a full attack with it in the same round?

Actually, it is usually a move equivelant to draw a weapon. The only exceptions are to have the QUICKDRAW feat, or to have a +1 Base Attack Bonus while moving at least 5 ft. So, if you were grappling, you would have to use a move equivelant to draw a light weapon. If you did that, then you can't make a full round attack. Since you need to make a full round action to attack while in grapple, you can't draw a weapon and attack with it in the same round (unless you have the QuickDraw feat).

Hope that answers at least one of them.

Oh, and I found one more...

FORGEHEART
F
Does the Fire Resitance 5 stack with other forms of Fire Resitance or not?

They don't stack.
Raven Dark
04-28-04, 09:47 PM Anyone else?
zephyrwolf1
04-28-04, 10:37 PM FLEET OF FOOT
Does the speed bonus stack with magical items o spell enhancements or not? It apparently stacks with class ability bonuses to speed.

Yes, it is an unnamed bonus, and thus stacks. Magical enhancements are Enhancement boni. BTW, Monk Speed is an enhancement Bonus, so a monk can't get a benefit from a magical source as well...

MAGICAL ARTISAN
The word "cost" can mean Gold, XP, or both. Which is it? Also, does it just reduce the base price of the item, or does it reduce miscellaneous costs as well (such as material components)? What is the "cost" in which this feat refers to?

I would say just Gold cost... this used to apply to xp as well, but it is a little too powerful that way, so I'd limit it to just Gold cost.

OTHERWORLDLY
How does becoming a Native Outsider effect things like Favored Enemy? Lets say you were a Humanoid (Elf) and with this feat you became a Native Outsider (Elf). Does the Orc Ranger with his Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Elf) still apply his bonuses against you or not?

I would say you gain the Subtype "augmented Humanoid (elf)" and thus would be affected by anything that affected a Humanoid (elf). Now, something else... I also think having "elf Blood" pretty much makes you an favored enemy of anyone with Favored enemy Humanoid (elf).

FOE HUNTER
How does the new Favored Enemy work exactly? Let's say you chose Cormyr for this feat. Do you get a flat +2 bonus VS Goblinoids, a +2 bonus VS Goblinoids and another +2 bonus to a second Favored Enemy (if you were a Ranger), or do you get a +4 bonus to Goblinoids if there are no other favored enemies (if you weren't a Ranger). If you already had Goblinoids as a Favored Enemy, do the bonuses from this feat and the class ability stack? This is, I think, the most ambiguous feat of all.

I just recently re-read the Ranger favored enemy section wondering about this very issue... What I found is that the extra boni is not from getting another favored enemy, but another bonus that Rangers get every 5 levels.
So, if you were a ranger with this feat, you would need to choose another favored enemy and have +2 to both.

----------------------------------------------

Another related issue that I saw, Anyone take a look at the Harper Paragon? It requires you to have a favored enemy, then you get more favored enemies while in the class...

Well, if you notice, you can have Favored Enemy: Humanoid (orc), Favored enemy: Zentarim, and Favored Enemy: Church of Bane.

What would happen if you had all three of the above favored enemies and ran across an Orc, Cleric of Bane, in the Zentarim?

My guess is that they stack, since the boni are all unnamed.

:)
SMW
04-30-04, 02:15 AM Actually, when you become a native outsider you get the subtype Outsider (Native).. look at a Rakshasa and planetouched in 3.5
Banpai
04-30-04, 04:31 AM regarding magical artisiean: the Xp cost are calculated from the GP cost if they are reduced the Xp go down along with it.
zephyrwolf1
04-30-04, 01:58 PM Actually, when you become a native outsider you get the subtype Outsider (Native).. look at a Rakshasa and planetouched in 3.5

As long as you got your Monster Manual handy anyway... look up the Augmentented subtype on P 306.

Your new Outsider would be...

Outsider (Native, Augmented humanoid Elf)

----------------

As for magical Artisan... You good definately be right, but a previous feat got Nerfed to only affecting gold costs in the past...

----------------
Mephistopheles
05-01-04, 09:41 AM Originally posted by zephyrwolf1
Another related issue that I saw, Anyone take a look at the Harper Paragon? It requires you to have a favored enemy, then you get more favored enemies while in the class...

Well, if you notice, you can have Favored Enemy: Humanoid (orc), Favored enemy: Zentarim, and Favored Enemy: Church of Bane.

What would happen if you had all three of the above favored enemies and ran across an Orc, Cleric of Bane, in the Zentarim?

My guess is that they stack, since the boni are all unnamed.

:)

I'd disagree, if only because the Ranger favoured enemy ability uses the opposite:
If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Lacking a ruling one way or the other in the Harper Paragon class, I'd use the Rangers ability as a guideline.
Note however that the Harper Paragon 1st Level Favoured Enemy (Evil) is different - it grants only a +1 bonus & specifically stacks with other favoured enemy abilities.
Yokinobu
05-01-04, 09:56 AM I wondered about the Otherworldy feat as well. Would someone who had taken that feat be able to take the Infernal Bargainer feat from RoF? Really it wouldn't make since, but technically the character would have met the prerequisite.
zephyrwolf1
05-03-04, 02:12 AM Originally posted by Mephistopheles

If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Lacking a ruling one way or the other in the Harper Paragon class, I'd use the Rangers ability as a guideline.

Thanks,
I missed this :) I think you'd be right.:angel:
angelroble2
05-03-04, 12:38 PM Originally posted by Banpai
regarding magical artisiean: the Xp cost are calculated from the GP cost if they are reduced the Xp go down along with it.
I think Xp cost is calculated from base price; the cost for making the item is 1/2 the base price in gp, and 1/25 the base price in xp. So if it is only the cost what is modified, and cost refers only to gp, it doesn't affect xp.

About material components, I'd say that they are not reduced; this is because you are supplying those components for X castings of the spell, and it's not really a cost of the item properly. Anyway, the text is not explicit in this, but I'd rule that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raven Dark 04-28-04, 12:32 PM	I have noticed that in several, several areas of the PGtF the creator's fail to explain several points. I would have spoken up long ago, but I was hopeful for a FAQ or Erratta to come out. It never did, so I am asking my questions here in hopes that the WizOs and others can see them and send them to WotC so that we may one day have a FAQ on this book. ARCANE SCHOOLING The only question I have, though, is whether the effective arcane level you get from this feat stacks with the same kind of levels you pick up later. Say you are a level one Cleric with this feat. Lets say you picked Wizard as your feat choice and now cast from Wands and Staves as if you were a Cleric 1/Wizard 1. If you pick up four more levels of Wizard, will you cast spells from the Wands and Staves as if you were a Cleric 1/Wizard 5 or as a Cleric 1/Wizard 4? BLOODED & BULLHEADED Fear effects stack, right? How does immunity to the Shaken effect, affect the stacking properties of fear? FLEET OF FOOT Does the speed bonus stack with magical items o spell enhancements or not? It apparently stacks with class ability bonuses to speed. FOE HUNTER How does the new Favored Enemy work exactly? Let's say you chose Cormyr for this feat. Do you get a flat +2 bonus VS Goblinoids, a +2 bonus VS Goblinoids and another +2 bonus to a second Favored Enemy (if you were a Ranger), or do you get a +4 bonus to Goblinoids if there are no other favored enemies (if you weren't a Ranger). If you already had Goblinoids as a Favored Enemy, do the bonuses from this feat and the class ability stack? This is, I think, the most ambiguous feat of all. FORGEHEART Does the Fire Resitance 5 stack with other forms of Fire Resitance or not? KNIFEFIGHTER The Benefit section and the Normal section seem to imply a contradiction of each other as to whether you can make a full attack with the light weapon in the same round in which you drew it out. The "...provided you already have your weapon drawn." line causes a bit of ambiguity. Can you or can you not draw out your light weapon and then make a full attack with it in the same round? MAGICAL ARTISAN The word "cost" can mean Gold, XP, or both. Which is it? Also, does it just reduce the base price of the item, or does it reduce miscellaneous costs as well (such as material components)? What is the "cost" in which this feat refers to? OTHERWORLDLY How does becoming a Native Outsider effect things like Favored Enemy? Lets say you were a Humanoid (Elf) and with this feat you became a Native Outsider (Elf). Does the Orc Ranger with his Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Elf) still apply his bonuses against you or not? REACTIVE COUNTERSPELL Does the use of this feat effect your initiative count at all? SPELL THEMATICS Does the "theme" effect all of your spells or just the +2 caster level thematic spells? That's all I have for now. Even so, I know there are more throughout the book and I will likely be back later to add them. If you have your own questions or have spotted more ambiguities, feel free to post them here. Hopefully a WizO will show this thread to a WotC official or something and we can get a PGtF FAQ out soon. You're welcome to try answering these questions as well if you are sure of your answer and have something to back it up.
Lashan 04-28-04, 04:09 PM	KNIFEFIGHTER The Benefit section and the Normal section seem to imply a contradiction of each other as to whether you can make a full attack with the light weapon in the same round in which you drew it out. The "...provided you already have your weapon drawn." line causes a bit of ambiguity. Can you or can you not draw out your light weapon and then make a full attack with it in the same round? Actually, it is usually a move equivelant to draw a weapon. The only exceptions are to have the QUICKDRAW feat, or to have a +1 Base Attack Bonus while moving at least 5 ft. So, if you were grappling, you would have to use a move equivelant to draw a light weapon. If you did that, then you can't make a full round attack. Since you need to make a full round action to attack while in grapple, you can't draw a weapon and attack with it in the same round (unless you have the QuickDraw feat). Hope that answers at least one of them. Oh, and I found one more... FORGEHEART F Does the Fire Resitance 5 stack with other forms of Fire Resitance or not? They don't stack.
Raven Dark 04-28-04, 09:47 PM	Anyone else?
zephyrwolf1 04-28-04, 10:37 PM	FLEET OF FOOT Does the speed bonus stack with magical items o spell enhancements or not? It apparently stacks with class ability bonuses to speed. Yes, it is an unnamed bonus, and thus stacks. Magical enhancements are Enhancement boni. BTW, Monk Speed is an enhancement Bonus, so a monk can't get a benefit from a magical source as well... MAGICAL ARTISAN The word "cost" can mean Gold, XP, or both. Which is it? Also, does it just reduce the base price of the item, or does it reduce miscellaneous costs as well (such as material components)? What is the "cost" in which this feat refers to? I would say just Gold cost... this used to apply to xp as well, but it is a little too powerful that way, so I'd limit it to just Gold cost. OTHERWORLDLY How does becoming a Native Outsider effect things like Favored Enemy? Lets say you were a Humanoid (Elf) and with this feat you became a Native Outsider (Elf). Does the Orc Ranger with his Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Elf) still apply his bonuses against you or not? I would say you gain the Subtype "augmented Humanoid (elf)" and thus would be affected by anything that affected a Humanoid (elf). Now, something else... I also think having "elf Blood" pretty much makes you an favored enemy of anyone with Favored enemy Humanoid (elf). FOE HUNTER How does the new Favored Enemy work exactly? Let's say you chose Cormyr for this feat. Do you get a flat +2 bonus VS Goblinoids, a +2 bonus VS Goblinoids and another +2 bonus to a second Favored Enemy (if you were a Ranger), or do you get a +4 bonus to Goblinoids if there are no other favored enemies (if you weren't a Ranger). If you already had Goblinoids as a Favored Enemy, do the bonuses from this feat and the class ability stack? This is, I think, the most ambiguous feat of all. I just recently re-read the Ranger favored enemy section wondering about this very issue... What I found is that the extra boni is not from getting another favored enemy, but another bonus that Rangers get every 5 levels. So, if you were a ranger with this feat, you would need to choose another favored enemy and have +2 to both. ---------------------------------------------- Another related issue that I saw, Anyone take a look at the Harper Paragon? It requires you to have a favored enemy, then you get more favored enemies while in the class... Well, if you notice, you can have Favored Enemy: Humanoid (orc), Favored enemy: Zentarim, and Favored Enemy: Church of Bane. What would happen if you had all three of the above favored enemies and ran across an Orc, Cleric of Bane, in the Zentarim? My guess is that they stack, since the boni are all unnamed. :)
SMW 04-30-04, 02:15 AM	Actually, when you become a native outsider you get the subtype Outsider (Native).. look at a Rakshasa and planetouched in 3.5
Banpai 04-30-04, 04:31 AM	regarding magical artisiean: the Xp cost are calculated from the GP cost if they are reduced the Xp go down along with it.
zephyrwolf1 04-30-04, 01:58 PM	Actually, when you become a native outsider you get the subtype Outsider (Native).. look at a Rakshasa and planetouched in 3.5 As long as you got your Monster Manual handy anyway... look up the Augmentented subtype on P 306. Your new Outsider would be... Outsider (Native, Augmented humanoid Elf) ---------------- As for magical Artisan... You good definately be right, but a previous feat got Nerfed to only affecting gold costs in the past... ----------------
Mephistopheles 05-01-04, 09:41 AM	Originally posted by zephyrwolf1 Another related issue that I saw, Anyone take a look at the Harper Paragon? It requires you to have a favored enemy, then you get more favored enemies while in the class... Well, if you notice, you can have Favored Enemy: Humanoid (orc), Favored enemy: Zentarim, and Favored Enemy: Church of Bane. What would happen if you had all three of the above favored enemies and ran across an Orc, Cleric of Bane, in the Zentarim? My guess is that they stack, since the boni are all unnamed. :) I'd disagree, if only because the Ranger favoured enemy ability uses the opposite: If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Lacking a ruling one way or the other in the Harper Paragon class, I'd use the Rangers ability as a guideline. Note however that the Harper Paragon 1st Level Favoured Enemy (Evil) is different - it grants only a +1 bonus & specifically stacks with other favoured enemy abilities.
Yokinobu 05-01-04, 09:56 AM	I wondered about the Otherworldy feat as well. Would someone who had taken that feat be able to take the Infernal Bargainer feat from RoF? Really it wouldn't make since, but technically the character would have met the prerequisite.
zephyrwolf1 05-03-04, 02:12 AM	Originally posted by Mephistopheles If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Lacking a ruling one way or the other in the Harper Paragon class, I'd use the Rangers ability as a guideline. Thanks, I missed this :) I think you'd be right.:angel:
angelroble2 05-03-04, 12:38 PM	Originally posted by Banpai regarding magical artisiean: the Xp cost are calculated from the GP cost if they are reduced the Xp go down along with it. I think Xp cost is calculated from base price; the cost for making the item is 1/2 the base price in gp, and 1/25 the base price in xp. So if it is only the cost what is modified, and cost refers only to gp, it doesn't affect xp. About material components, I'd say that they are not reduced; this is because you are supplying those components for X castings of the spell, and it's not really a cost of the item properly. Anyway, the text is not explicit in this, but I'd rule that.