Planescape in the Realms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Planescape in the Realms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
UberDuPer
06-15-04, 10:18 AM I was wondering if anyone has included Planescape with their FR campaigns. Though I am sure that some of you have experimented with this setting sometime since the early 90’s, my primary concern is that of the differences and conflicts that I might be unprepared for if I attempt to connect these two amazing settings.

The information I have on the cosmology within the Forgotten Realms setting can only be best described as hazy and I would like to locate more specific information then what has been provided in the newer Manual of the Planes. The Planescape books seem to have the sort detail that I need to rev up my creative process.

I realize that there are many planes and possibly a few FR specific planer processes that I will have to maintain within the Planescape format but I would like to know how much I can include while remaining loyal to the core Forgotten Realms setting if that is at all possible in this case. I would rather modify the Planescape setting to suit the Realms rather than modify the Realms to suit Planescape.

If anyone out there can understand my ramblings please give me a reply. Any suggestions, recommendations, and concerns are welcome and I will be very thankful for your time.

Ub3rD
Gotrex
06-15-04, 10:42 AM okay

before 3e FR was connected to planescape like all the other prime worlds

and a lot of people like to keep it that way (some of us dont like the new FR cosmology)

the new cosmolgy is a big tree type thing that has a link to sigil so is still connected to planescape

cant explain it in detail though because as i said above i pretty much ignore the new FR cosmology
Bifford
06-15-04, 11:51 AM Planescape wouldn't fit well with the new FR cosmology. Firstly, much of Planescape lore makes specific references to Great Wheel locations.

Secondly, FR is too deity-centric. In Planescape/Great Wheel, deities aren't all that important. Everyone on the planes is pretty much on his own private karmic quest to define himself and his place in the multiverse through his own desires; you go to the plane that matches your character when you die; you can join a faction that extols a philosophy, rather than a church than venerates a paragon. Deities, as far as the cynical Sigilian is concerned, are just really powerful cutters you should avoid crossing (and often more trouble than they're worth), not beings that are the center of existence and to whom we must tie our destinies to (in FR, everyone must worship a deity or wind up in the Wall).

Third, the Great Wheel is supposed to be big. Countless worlds on the Prime with countless deities, variety and culture. There is room for everyone. In FRCS, we have just Toril (and perhaps a few minor planets in the solar system) with an awful lot of players fighting over it. The Blood War in Faerun will probably have to be scaled down from millions of fiends across epic battlefield to the scale of mortal nations, just to keep things in sensible proportions.
Kuje31
06-15-04, 01:03 PM The others answered it. :)
Gray Richardson
06-15-04, 08:59 PM Don't be disuaded by the naysayers above! Its totally possible to have a rip-roaring, action packed, good ol' planescape adventure in the Forgotten Realms!

First you should pick up the Players Guide to Faerun. It has all the FR Planes, lists of encounters for each and brief detailes about each of the planes.

Next check out some of the threads on on the FR Magic, Deities & the Cosmos boards, you may find lots of arguments about which is better the Great Wheel or Faerun's Great Tree but you may get a lot of ideas about how you can adapt the material.

Remember, every divine realm in the new Forgotten Realms cosmology was once a part of the the old Great Wheel back in 2d edition, so you can easily adapt the flavor text from a lot of the old Planescape stuff to fit the new 3E FR Cosmology.

Your players will love you for taking them to the planes! Don't be discouraged by anyone who says it can't be done! There are a myriad adventures to be had running around the cosmic branches of the Great Tree!

If you get stuck on how to adapt the material to your own campaign just post your questions to this thread and I or a bunch of other planar enthusiasts will chime in with lots of answers and suggestions for you!
Kuje31
06-15-04, 09:04 PM Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Remember, every divine realm in the new Forgotten Realms cosmology was once a part of the the old Great Wheel back in 2d edition, so you can easily adapt the flavor text from a lot of the old Planescape stuff to fit the new 3E FR Cosmology.[/B]

Not all of them were in the Wheel/Ring or Planescape. Some of the planes in the Tree are new for 3e. :)
Ryltar Swordsong
06-15-04, 09:13 PM The best and easiest way to incorporate Planescape into FR is to ignore that gods-awful 3e cosmology (WotC obviously failed to drug test their writers when this idea was brought up).

(Edit: Shemmy's correct, the drug testing bit is a joke.)
Shemeska the Marauder
06-16-04, 02:11 AM Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong
The best and easiest way to incorporate Planescape into FR is to ignore that gods-awful 3e cosmology (WotC obviously failed to drug test their writers when this idea was brought up).

The cynical side of me agrees with Rhylar on his opinion of the 3e FR cosmology. So does the creative side of me...

I'll laugh off the drug testing as a joke. Or I can suggest for Rhyltar to go get himself banned from SKR's boards by trolling on this subject. I've been tempted I admit. ;)

It's much easier to junk the 3e FR cosmology and use FR in the Great Wheel.
Faerun = 1 prime material world.
Planescape = All of the planes, all of the other prime worlds, infinite

Which of these sounds easier to tweak to fit smoothly into the other? ...

Give me a poll for who likes the 3e cosmology better and I'd put money on it being a landslide in favor of the Wheel (though I admit most of the newbies to 3e FR would likely vote they preferred the new cosmology out of ignorance. Not stupidity mind you, but ignorance, there's an important difference there)
Kulis68
06-16-04, 06:43 AM If you don't really feel up to reinventing the Wheel, there is an interesting way out that my players and I have found, (and sure we are not the only ones.) I was shocked to see this printed when I read that Wizards had moved from Planescape.

Check out the Faiths and Pantheons book, page 161. In the Abby of the Sword, P3 is a portal directly to Sigil. You play connect the dots :D and you are there. The Great Wheel. While I could only see this as a One-way portal, that might be different for your game. There are a few more portals that are rumored to lead to a great planar Cosmopolitan City under Amn, in Athkatla's sewers.

While I don't remember the novel I read the Amn portal in, the Abby of the Sword is a major place of worship for Tempus, and could easily work into a game, kill this for the key to the portal for example. The monks or clerics who run the place would more than likey love "testing" your unwashed PC's :)

*** MILD SPOILER WARNING! ***

Also, after reading the War of the Spider Queen novels, the latest (Book 4) deals alot with Planar travel. And opened yet another possiblity. If the planes are infinite and the Astral Plane easiest to prove this, all it would take would be a mage with high skill in Knowledge (The Planes) to know of a place on the Astral Plane that was not in his "part" of the Astral Plane. Then a teleport without error from his "part" to this new area would get you out of FR as well. This really could work on ANY of the Tree planes of the FR. Of course... this could be an adventure all on it's own.
Gray Richardson
06-16-04, 08:48 AM There is already a Forgotten Realms planar adventure called "For Duty & Deity" available for free download on the Wizards main D&D downloads page. It was a 2nd edition product but it is easily adaptable to any 3E campaign with only minor tweaking.

The gist is that the Goddess Waukeen has been kidnapped and is being held in the Abyss by the Demon Prince Graz'zt. The adventure starts you off in the Realms, takes you to Selune's plane of Gates of the Moon where you take the Infinite Staircase and eventually end up in the Abyss.

This is a wonderful module to either use to get your players planewalking or just to mine for all the great ideas. You don't even have to stick to the adventure, you could sidetrack your players and have them stop off the Infinite Staircase in any of the planes along the way.

Everyone interested in running Planescape style adventures in the Realms should check out "For Duty & Deity."
Sylvos
06-16-04, 08:53 AM Just use the Plane of Shadow to connect your FR players to another Prime Material Plane - Greyhawk for example. Then they can freely make use of Sigil. They clearly state in the PGtF that the Plane of Shadow is coexistant with other Prime Material Planes and thus travel is possible between them.
Alac Luin
06-16-04, 11:53 AM There is also several connections to Sigil on Faerun, some have been mentioned in 3.X sources, some are from 2ed, but have not been throrn out yet.

A great 2ed source, "The World Serpant Inn" in Cormyr (Get Volo's guide to Cormyr from wizards download page for free) This is a bar that is reported to be in the city of Sigil, and has gates leading anywhere.
Faraer
06-16-04, 12:04 PM Jeff Grubb has also detailed his World Serpent Inn in a recent web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a). The original source is OP1 Tales of the Outer Planes.
jaerrod
06-16-04, 01:20 PM In addition to the World Serpent Inn (which I didn't know about - thanks for the info to those who mentioned it) there's Blais House in Westgate which has gates to both Sigil and the Beastlands. It's detailed in Cloak and Dagger, which is 2nd edition and could arguably be deprecated lore, but it's something I'm using IMC.

My take on the cosmology changes is that there's no reason the Tree and the Wheel can't coexist. If Sigil's reachable from the Faerunian cosmology (which it should be since it's been mentioned in a couple of 3ED products), it's fairly easy to argue that both the Great Wheel and the Great Tree connect to it. If you run with that, Sigil becomes something of a central node, which both the wheel and the tree (and potentially other undiscovered cosmologies) feed into.
Shemeska the Marauder
06-16-04, 02:40 PM Yep, the World Serpent Inn exists connected to Sigil. It doesn't actually reside in Sigil itself, but two doorways in Sigil (The Clerk's Ward and The Lady's Ward IIRC) open into the inn. Most people assume it actually resides inside Sigil, but it was always an open question. The 3e incarnation of it seems to have taken the view that it's not (makes sense given the flavor text, I'm fine with it).
Gray Richardson
06-16-04, 06:46 PM Just use the Plane of Shadow to connect your FR players to another Prime Material Plane - Greyhawk for example. Well, you could do that. It is definitely an option. However the new FR cosmology has so much potential for adventure, and campaigning there should be so much more meaningful to your Faerunian characters, why not just use Faerun's Great Tree?

I can think of few reasons that would motivate Faerunian players to travel over to other cosmologies and get mixed up with Greyhawk planar politics when they could be performing quests for Mystra, fighting with Tyr's Archons against Cyric's Slaad armies or beseaching Lurue for aid in combating a mysterious drought that has stricken Everlund. There are so many local possibilities!

Getting involved in their own planar politics can help win the party powerful friends and influence and favors that could actually be of use to them back on Faerun. It matters little to them if they befriend Pelor or earn the respect of Hextor when those gods can't really do anything for them back in the Realms.

Meanwhile, there are a multitude of planes within FR's tree that await discovery and hold adventure for the players. There is no need to go galivanting off to other multiverses when the players have everything they need in their own cosmology.

I bristle a little at the suggestion that FR's Great Tree is somehow defective or not good enough. It is a perfectly wonderful cosmology and with a little imagination and resourcefulness can provide more than enough adventure to entertain your PC's for a lifetime.
Ryltar Swordsong
06-16-04, 08:11 PM Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I bristle a little at the suggestion that FR's Great Tree is somehow defective or not good enough. It is a perfectly wonderful cosmology and with a little imagination and resourcefulness can provide more than enough adventure to entertain your PC's for a lifetime. No, it is defective and definitely not good enough. There was no good reason to change the cosmology. It has created many problems, and invalidated 2 editions worth of planar stories and lore. The 2e cosmology already presented infinite adventure possibilities. Add in Spelljammer, and the possibilities increase even more.

Yes, part of me is upset over the change merely because it is a change. But there was nothing wrong with the 2e cosmology. The new cosmology has plenty of problems.:nonono:
Alac Luin
06-17-04, 11:21 AM Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong
...and invalidated 2 editions worth of planar stories and lore....

This in part is why they did the split from the great wheel.
Many of the 2ed planar stories did not translate to FR at all.

They did leave enough room to play for use in the great wheel and other planar travels.
Plane of Shadow...
Sigil has connections to Faerun...
The Infinite Staircase still exists (Permanently connected Selune's home, with random connections to every city that ever has, or ever will exist)

And who's to say that an offshoot of the river of blood does not connect to the river Styx? (OK, it's not canon, but who can say what we use in our home games)

The Faerun's great tree may have a branch that comes close to a branch to The Tree of Life from planescape, like 2 trees in a forest growing close to each other and get partly entwined.

Yes, the new cosmology may not be perfect, but neither was the 2ed material.

Use the great wheel if you want, but there a plenty of us that will be useing the new cosmology.
Kulis68
06-17-04, 04:28 PM Use the great wheel if you want, but there a plenty of us that will be useing the new cosmology.

Not saying that only one is the correct one, and you should not connect to the other. Just showing that there is evidence to support that the Wheel and Tree do overlap and co-exist. Should your players want to tromp through Sigil to Greyhawk from Toril, best of luck with it. :)

My players found that alot of those neat Hero Deties of FR dont have power in Greyhawk... :) Paladin, druid, and cleric had some fun with that :) Then the game became "We must convert people and bring X god here" LOL. Good times!!!
Shemeska the Marauder
06-17-04, 04:41 PM I still say a few gallons of Roundup weedkiller and a few pounds of salt for the earth will do wonders for the the Tree...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UberDuPer 06-15-04, 10:18 AM	I was wondering if anyone has included Planescape with their FR campaigns. Though I am sure that some of you have experimented with this setting sometime since the early 90’s, my primary concern is that of the differences and conflicts that I might be unprepared for if I attempt to connect these two amazing settings. The information I have on the cosmology within the Forgotten Realms setting can only be best described as hazy and I would like to locate more specific information then what has been provided in the newer Manual of the Planes. The Planescape books seem to have the sort detail that I need to rev up my creative process. I realize that there are many planes and possibly a few FR specific planer processes that I will have to maintain within the Planescape format but I would like to know how much I can include while remaining loyal to the core Forgotten Realms setting if that is at all possible in this case. I would rather modify the Planescape setting to suit the Realms rather than modify the Realms to suit Planescape. If anyone out there can understand my ramblings please give me a reply. Any suggestions, recommendations, and concerns are welcome and I will be very thankful for your time. Ub3rD
Gotrex 06-15-04, 10:42 AM	okay before 3e FR was connected to planescape like all the other prime worlds and a lot of people like to keep it that way (some of us dont like the new FR cosmology) the new cosmolgy is a big tree type thing that has a link to sigil so is still connected to planescape cant explain it in detail though because as i said above i pretty much ignore the new FR cosmology
Bifford 06-15-04, 11:51 AM	Planescape wouldn't fit well with the new FR cosmology. Firstly, much of Planescape lore makes specific references to Great Wheel locations. Secondly, FR is too deity-centric. In Planescape/Great Wheel, deities aren't all that important. Everyone on the planes is pretty much on his own private karmic quest to define himself and his place in the multiverse through his own desires; you go to the plane that matches your character when you die; you can join a faction that extols a philosophy, rather than a church than venerates a paragon. Deities, as far as the cynical Sigilian is concerned, are just really powerful cutters you should avoid crossing (and often more trouble than they're worth), not beings that are the center of existence and to whom we must tie our destinies to (in FR, everyone must worship a deity or wind up in the Wall). Third, the Great Wheel is supposed to be big. Countless worlds on the Prime with countless deities, variety and culture. There is room for everyone. In FRCS, we have just Toril (and perhaps a few minor planets in the solar system) with an awful lot of players fighting over it. The Blood War in Faerun will probably have to be scaled down from millions of fiends across epic battlefield to the scale of mortal nations, just to keep things in sensible proportions.
Kuje31 06-15-04, 01:03 PM	The others answered it. :)
Gray Richardson 06-15-04, 08:59 PM	Don't be disuaded by the naysayers above! Its totally possible to have a rip-roaring, action packed, good ol' planescape adventure in the Forgotten Realms! First you should pick up the Players Guide to Faerun. It has all the FR Planes, lists of encounters for each and brief detailes about each of the planes. Next check out some of the threads on on the FR Magic, Deities & the Cosmos boards, you may find lots of arguments about which is better the Great Wheel or Faerun's Great Tree but you may get a lot of ideas about how you can adapt the material. Remember, every divine realm in the new Forgotten Realms cosmology was once a part of the the old Great Wheel back in 2d edition, so you can easily adapt the flavor text from a lot of the old Planescape stuff to fit the new 3E FR Cosmology. Your players will love you for taking them to the planes! Don't be discouraged by anyone who says it can't be done! There are a myriad adventures to be had running around the cosmic branches of the Great Tree! If you get stuck on how to adapt the material to your own campaign just post your questions to this thread and I or a bunch of other planar enthusiasts will chime in with lots of answers and suggestions for you!
Kuje31 06-15-04, 09:04 PM	Originally posted by Gray Richardson Remember, every divine realm in the new Forgotten Realms cosmology was once a part of the the old Great Wheel back in 2d edition, so you can easily adapt the flavor text from a lot of the old Planescape stuff to fit the new 3E FR Cosmology.[/B] Not all of them were in the Wheel/Ring or Planescape. Some of the planes in the Tree are new for 3e. :)
Ryltar Swordsong 06-15-04, 09:13 PM	The best and easiest way to incorporate Planescape into FR is to ignore that gods-awful 3e cosmology (WotC obviously failed to drug test their writers when this idea was brought up). (Edit: Shemmy's correct, the drug testing bit is a joke.)
Shemeska the Marauder 06-16-04, 02:11 AM	Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong The best and easiest way to incorporate Planescape into FR is to ignore that gods-awful 3e cosmology (WotC obviously failed to drug test their writers when this idea was brought up). The cynical side of me agrees with Rhylar on his opinion of the 3e FR cosmology. So does the creative side of me... I'll laugh off the drug testing as a joke. Or I can suggest for Rhyltar to go get himself banned from SKR's boards by trolling on this subject. I've been tempted I admit. ;) It's much easier to junk the 3e FR cosmology and use FR in the Great Wheel. Faerun = 1 prime material world. Planescape = All of the planes, all of the other prime worlds, infinite Which of these sounds easier to tweak to fit smoothly into the other? ... Give me a poll for who likes the 3e cosmology better and I'd put money on it being a landslide in favor of the Wheel (though I admit most of the newbies to 3e FR would likely vote they preferred the new cosmology out of ignorance. Not stupidity mind you, but ignorance, there's an important difference there)
Kulis68 06-16-04, 06:43 AM	If you don't really feel up to reinventing the Wheel, there is an interesting way out that my players and I have found, (and sure we are not the only ones.) I was shocked to see this printed when I read that Wizards had moved from Planescape. Check out the Faiths and Pantheons book, page 161. In the Abby of the Sword, P3 is a portal directly to Sigil. You play connect the dots :D and you are there. The Great Wheel. While I could only see this as a One-way portal, that might be different for your game. There are a few more portals that are rumored to lead to a great planar Cosmopolitan City under Amn, in Athkatla's sewers. While I don't remember the novel I read the Amn portal in, the Abby of the Sword is a major place of worship for Tempus, and could easily work into a game, kill this for the key to the portal for example. The monks or clerics who run the place would more than likey love "testing" your unwashed PC's :) * MILD SPOILER WARNING! * Also, after reading the War of the Spider Queen novels, the latest (Book 4) deals alot with Planar travel. And opened yet another possiblity. If the planes are infinite and the Astral Plane easiest to prove this, all it would take would be a mage with high skill in Knowledge (The Planes) to know of a place on the Astral Plane that was not in his "part" of the Astral Plane. Then a teleport without error from his "part" to this new area would get you out of FR as well. This really could work on ANY of the Tree planes of the FR. Of course... this could be an adventure all on it's own.
Gray Richardson 06-16-04, 08:48 AM	There is already a Forgotten Realms planar adventure called "For Duty & Deity" available for free download on the Wizards main D&D downloads page. It was a 2nd edition product but it is easily adaptable to any 3E campaign with only minor tweaking. The gist is that the Goddess Waukeen has been kidnapped and is being held in the Abyss by the Demon Prince Graz'zt. The adventure starts you off in the Realms, takes you to Selune's plane of Gates of the Moon where you take the Infinite Staircase and eventually end up in the Abyss. This is a wonderful module to either use to get your players planewalking or just to mine for all the great ideas. You don't even have to stick to the adventure, you could sidetrack your players and have them stop off the Infinite Staircase in any of the planes along the way. Everyone interested in running Planescape style adventures in the Realms should check out "For Duty & Deity."
Sylvos 06-16-04, 08:53 AM	Just use the Plane of Shadow to connect your FR players to another Prime Material Plane - Greyhawk for example. Then they can freely make use of Sigil. They clearly state in the PGtF that the Plane of Shadow is coexistant with other Prime Material Planes and thus travel is possible between them.
Alac Luin 06-16-04, 11:53 AM	There is also several connections to Sigil on Faerun, some have been mentioned in 3.X sources, some are from 2ed, but have not been throrn out yet. A great 2ed source, "The World Serpant Inn" in Cormyr (Get Volo's guide to Cormyr from wizards download page for free) This is a bar that is reported to be in the city of Sigil, and has gates leading anywhere.
Faraer 06-16-04, 12:04 PM	Jeff Grubb has also detailed his World Serpent Inn in a recent web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a). The original source is OP1 Tales of the Outer Planes.
jaerrod 06-16-04, 01:20 PM	In addition to the World Serpent Inn (which I didn't know about - thanks for the info to those who mentioned it) there's Blais House in Westgate which has gates to both Sigil and the Beastlands. It's detailed in Cloak and Dagger, which is 2nd edition and could arguably be deprecated lore, but it's something I'm using IMC. My take on the cosmology changes is that there's no reason the Tree and the Wheel can't coexist. If Sigil's reachable from the Faerunian cosmology (which it should be since it's been mentioned in a couple of 3ED products), it's fairly easy to argue that both the Great Wheel and the Great Tree connect to it. If you run with that, Sigil becomes something of a central node, which both the wheel and the tree (and potentially other undiscovered cosmologies) feed into.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-16-04, 02:40 PM	Yep, the World Serpent Inn exists connected to Sigil. It doesn't actually reside in Sigil itself, but two doorways in Sigil (The Clerk's Ward and The Lady's Ward IIRC) open into the inn. Most people assume it actually resides inside Sigil, but it was always an open question. The 3e incarnation of it seems to have taken the view that it's not (makes sense given the flavor text, I'm fine with it).
Gray Richardson 06-16-04, 06:46 PM	Just use the Plane of Shadow to connect your FR players to another Prime Material Plane - Greyhawk for example. Well, you could do that. It is definitely an option. However the new FR cosmology has so much potential for adventure, and campaigning there should be so much more meaningful to your Faerunian characters, why not just use Faerun's Great Tree? I can think of few reasons that would motivate Faerunian players to travel over to other cosmologies and get mixed up with Greyhawk planar politics when they could be performing quests for Mystra, fighting with Tyr's Archons against Cyric's Slaad armies or beseaching Lurue for aid in combating a mysterious drought that has stricken Everlund. There are so many local possibilities! Getting involved in their own planar politics can help win the party powerful friends and influence and favors that could actually be of use to them back on Faerun. It matters little to them if they befriend Pelor or earn the respect of Hextor when those gods can't really do anything for them back in the Realms. Meanwhile, there are a multitude of planes within FR's tree that await discovery and hold adventure for the players. There is no need to go galivanting off to other multiverses when the players have everything they need in their own cosmology. I bristle a little at the suggestion that FR's Great Tree is somehow defective or not good enough. It is a perfectly wonderful cosmology and with a little imagination and resourcefulness can provide more than enough adventure to entertain your PC's for a lifetime.
Ryltar Swordsong 06-16-04, 08:11 PM	Originally posted by Gray Richardson I bristle a little at the suggestion that FR's Great Tree is somehow defective or not good enough. It is a perfectly wonderful cosmology and with a little imagination and resourcefulness can provide more than enough adventure to entertain your PC's for a lifetime. No, it is defective and definitely not good enough. There was no good reason to change the cosmology. It has created many problems, and invalidated 2 editions worth of planar stories and lore. The 2e cosmology already presented infinite adventure possibilities. Add in Spelljammer, and the possibilities increase even more. Yes, part of me is upset over the change merely because it is a change. But there was nothing wrong with the 2e cosmology. The new cosmology has plenty of problems.:nonono:
Alac Luin 06-17-04, 11:21 AM	Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong ...and invalidated 2 editions worth of planar stories and lore.... This in part is why they did the split from the great wheel. Many of the 2ed planar stories did not translate to FR at all. They did leave enough room to play for use in the great wheel and other planar travels. Plane of Shadow... Sigil has connections to Faerun... The Infinite Staircase still exists (Permanently connected Selune's home, with random connections to every city that ever has, or ever will exist) And who's to say that an offshoot of the river of blood does not connect to the river Styx? (OK, it's not canon, but who can say what we use in our home games) The Faerun's great tree may have a branch that comes close to a branch to The Tree of Life from planescape, like 2 trees in a forest growing close to each other and get partly entwined. Yes, the new cosmology may not be perfect, but neither was the 2ed material. Use the great wheel if you want, but there a plenty of us that will be useing the new cosmology.
Kulis68 06-17-04, 04:28 PM	Use the great wheel if you want, but there a plenty of us that will be useing the new cosmology. Not saying that only one is the correct one, and you should not connect to the other. Just showing that there is evidence to support that the Wheel and Tree do overlap and co-exist. Should your players want to tromp through Sigil to Greyhawk from Toril, best of luck with it. :) My players found that alot of those neat Hero Deties of FR dont have power in Greyhawk... :) Paladin, druid, and cleric had some fun with that :) Then the game became "We must convert people and bring X god here" LOL. Good times!!!
Shemeska the Marauder 06-17-04, 04:41 PM	I still say a few gallons of Roundup weedkiller and a few pounds of salt for the earth will do wonders for the the Tree...