Power of Faerun: So now I'm a king... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Power of Faerun: So now I'm a king... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Devo001
03-25-06, 12:57 AM So now I have become king of a small borderlands city, how do I tax my people to build up the kingdom? seems to have been left out of the rules
GothicDan
03-25-06, 08:30 AM It kind of depends on the kind of economy you want to have; Powers of Faerun isn't a book on macroscopic economy. I'd recommend actually looking such stuff up in a book or online. You have to look up tarriffs, exchange rates, tithing, income tax, internal versus external taxes, etc. Or, if your DM wanted to simplify things, he could just have you make a basic tax percentage on all internally crafted goods versus a tax percentage on imports, and then figure out your net flow roughly off of that (as well as lots of other factors, such as actual resources, trading partners, market opportunities, etc.).

It's a very, very complex issue.
Dargoth
03-25-06, 08:46 AM I seem to recall in one of the previous DMs guides there was a list of Taxes and fees that a DM could levy on players (its not in the 3.5 DMG so it must have been in DMG 3.0 or the 2ed DMG) just reverse it and apply the taxes to your subjects
ericlboyd
03-25-06, 11:41 AM Power of Faerun is intended to enable role-playing as a leader and engender adventuring, not provide a functioning economy for a kingdom. That said, you can use Power of Faerun to accomplish what you want, in a twisted sort of way. Simply set the taxation policy that you think is reasonable and then use your Leadership and Influence to convince the populace to pay it. ;-) You could use the modifiers from the Battle chapter regarding conscription to represent the degree of taxation (repressive vs. light).

--Eric
Devo001
03-25-06, 02:26 PM It kind of depends on the kind of economy you want to have; Powers of Faerun isn't a book on macroscopic economy. I'd recommend actually looking such stuff up in a book or online. You have to look up tarriffs, exchange rates, tithing, income tax, internal versus external taxes, etc. Or, if your DM wanted to simplify things, he could just have you make a basic tax percentage on all internally crafted goods versus a tax percentage on imports, and then figure out your net flow roughly off of that (as well as lots of other factors, such as actual resources, trading partners, market opportunities, etc.).

It's a very, very complex issue.

not trying for macroscopic, its just, I need gold to support my army and equip them, as well as build fortifications
BrianCritchley
03-25-06, 04:45 PM I smell a potential web enchancement! :D
Ryan_Singer
03-25-06, 06:58 PM I created a system for this problem and posted it to the DM's forum.

Check out http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=607813

Ryan
ClobberinTime
03-26-06, 11:33 AM I had been thinking that the easiest way to do this would be abstractly,

i.e. you get the normal percentages from the demographics section for free, i.e. 1% in the army 10% callable in an emergency. Then like Eric said you can roll to adjust it.
Devo001
03-27-06, 01:57 PM I decided on flat population tax of 1 gp per month per person, plus all business owners have to be members of the state merchant guild and pay business taxes (member fees), plus I provide partial start up capital to help promote growth, so i get 15% of their income as i'm the guildmaster, then because i am a partner i can roll to help them be more productive or hire a specialist to help them. So bam, booming economy and taxes lol
Petrankov
03-27-06, 02:12 PM I actually got a book called Fields of Blood: The Book of War from an independent d20 studio.

Has nice rules on mass combat as well as Realms Play mechanics. I just introduced the rules a few games ago and my players are loving it.

I am using it in conjunction with Heroes of Battle. Tis going well. Well as well as the Weeping War can be expected to go anyway. I keep telling them yes there is hope you can change history. SUCKERS. :evillaugh
ClobberinTime
03-27-06, 03:48 PM Thats not a bad idea, use the rules in DMG II to run the town like a guild. It is fair to some extent, if you are giving them the land/some gold to get things started.

I think your tax rate is way too high though, the monlthly salary for a Warrior 1 is 3gp so if the normal number of people to pay for this is 100 then they should have to pay 3 coppers per month.
Devo001
03-27-06, 11:01 PM Thats not a bad idea, use the rules in DMG II to run the town like a guild. It is fair to some extent, if you are giving them the land/some gold to get things started.

I think your tax rate is way too high though, the monlthly salary for a Warrior 1 is 3gp so if the normal number of people to pay for this is 100 then they should have to pay 3 coppers per month.

yeah, i thought of that as well, with all the income from business taxes the population taxes can be way lower anyway
Ryan_Singer
03-28-06, 02:05 AM I created a system for this problem and posted it to the DM's forum.

Check out http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=607813

Ryan

Noble Houses are, as per DMGII, both Government Guilds and Businesses. Let me explain what this means. As a Guild, in order to "join" and get the benefits of being a member of a government guild (access to a contact that can smooth over legal troubles, the ability to take out short term loans, etc), you have to either:

1. Cofound the Noble house (see business section)
2. Be a direct descendant of a co-founder
3. Marry a direct descendant of a co-founder

All Noble houses have a Patron (or Matron). This individual is the member of the House with the highest Leadership Score, also posessing the Noble title of the house. They count as the owner of the business for the purposes of the business rules.

Business Aspects

A Noble house collects taxes from the surrounding area, but also must spend money protecting the area and enforcing the law. This is represented using the Business rules from the DMGII. A Noble House is:

Primary Skill: Effective Leadership score, modified by Influence (from Power of Faerun)
Secondary Skills: Diplomacy, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)
Capital: High
Resources: High
Risk: High

In order to found a noble house (as opposed to inheriting it by becoming the heir with the highest leadership score), you must satisfy a few conditions:

1. You must invest the starting cost for a high-capital business for your area (this significant investment includes recruiting, hiring and equipping the police for your domain, and any infrastructure you may need to build).
2. The king must make you a noble, usually done only if you save his life or his kingdom.
3. If you don't already own a 100,000GP Mansion, the king will give you one, which may need repairs, that you will move into.
4. You must posess the leadership feat.

Playing a Noble Patron/Matron

Now that you are in charge of a Noble house, the first thing you recognize is that there are a ton of costs (penalties to profit check). Raising your leadership score is paramount to not running out of funds. Not only are you probably a lord in either the wilderness (-10 to profit), or a rural area (-4), you also have the salaries of police and administrators (costs of a high resource business, -4). Not to mention that ruling is a high-risk endeavor (-4). You can start making up for this by Upgrading and hiring specialists, but your main goal will be raising your leadership modifier.

Thankfully, Power of Faerun gives us a great way to do that. The influence mechanic raises leadership. The easiest way to raise influence is to recruit followers that have positions of influence in other organizations. So, you buy a residence in the capital of your nation, and hit the royal court. There you can meet heirs and P/Matrons of the other Noble houses. There are a few mechanics to pay attention to here.

1. Recruiting cohorts and followers that have the leadership feat gives you followers-by-proxy, which raises influence.
2. Recruiting followers/cohorts who have Favored-in-guild for thier noble house (favored heirs) gives a decent bonus
3. Recruiting followers/cohorts who have the guildmaster and/or Rulership feats gives a larger bonus.

This means that you could have a fairly unlimited source of roleplaying opportunities trying to acquire followers at court (make deals/alliances), investing in upgrading your business (laying new roads, building new buildings, etc), and dealing with the events that happen to your territory on a monthly basis (pretty much every result on the Business-related encounters table in the DMGII is appropriate).

As your influence grows, so do the fortunes of your house. I think these rules provide a great addition to the rules in Power of Faerun to help a GM run a campaign where the PC's assume rulership. In addition, remember that a Noble title also requires military service, so if your kingdom ever goes to war, you become a military leader as well.

Any questions/comments?
Donkey_Headed_Adversary
03-28-06, 01:11 PM Here's a good d20 source on such topics:

"A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe" by Expeditious Retreat Press

http://www.exp.citymax.com/page/page/351668.htm

d.h.a.o.h.
ClobberinTime
03-28-06, 04:29 PM Uh boy now I gotta go buy DMG II

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Devo001 03-25-06, 12:57 AM	So now I have become king of a small borderlands city, how do I tax my people to build up the kingdom? seems to have been left out of the rules
GothicDan 03-25-06, 08:30 AM	It kind of depends on the kind of economy you want to have; Powers of Faerun isn't a book on macroscopic economy. I'd recommend actually looking such stuff up in a book or online. You have to look up tarriffs, exchange rates, tithing, income tax, internal versus external taxes, etc. Or, if your DM wanted to simplify things, he could just have you make a basic tax percentage on all internally crafted goods versus a tax percentage on imports, and then figure out your net flow roughly off of that (as well as lots of other factors, such as actual resources, trading partners, market opportunities, etc.). It's a very, very complex issue.
Dargoth 03-25-06, 08:46 AM	I seem to recall in one of the previous DMs guides there was a list of Taxes and fees that a DM could levy on players (its not in the 3.5 DMG so it must have been in DMG 3.0 or the 2ed DMG) just reverse it and apply the taxes to your subjects
ericlboyd 03-25-06, 11:41 AM	Power of Faerun is intended to enable role-playing as a leader and engender adventuring, not provide a functioning economy for a kingdom. That said, you can use Power of Faerun to accomplish what you want, in a twisted sort of way. Simply set the taxation policy that you think is reasonable and then use your Leadership and Influence to convince the populace to pay it. ;-) You could use the modifiers from the Battle chapter regarding conscription to represent the degree of taxation (repressive vs. light). --Eric
Devo001 03-25-06, 02:26 PM	It kind of depends on the kind of economy you want to have; Powers of Faerun isn't a book on macroscopic economy. I'd recommend actually looking such stuff up in a book or online. You have to look up tarriffs, exchange rates, tithing, income tax, internal versus external taxes, etc. Or, if your DM wanted to simplify things, he could just have you make a basic tax percentage on all internally crafted goods versus a tax percentage on imports, and then figure out your net flow roughly off of that (as well as lots of other factors, such as actual resources, trading partners, market opportunities, etc.). It's a very, very complex issue. not trying for macroscopic, its just, I need gold to support my army and equip them, as well as build fortifications
BrianCritchley 03-25-06, 04:45 PM	I smell a potential web enchancement! :D
Ryan_Singer 03-25-06, 06:58 PM	I created a system for this problem and posted it to the DM's forum. Check out http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=607813 Ryan
ClobberinTime 03-26-06, 11:33 AM	I had been thinking that the easiest way to do this would be abstractly, i.e. you get the normal percentages from the demographics section for free, i.e. 1% in the army 10% callable in an emergency. Then like Eric said you can roll to adjust it.
Devo001 03-27-06, 01:57 PM	I decided on flat population tax of 1 gp per month per person, plus all business owners have to be members of the state merchant guild and pay business taxes (member fees), plus I provide partial start up capital to help promote growth, so i get 15% of their income as i'm the guildmaster, then because i am a partner i can roll to help them be more productive or hire a specialist to help them. So bam, booming economy and taxes lol
Petrankov 03-27-06, 02:12 PM	I actually got a book called Fields of Blood: The Book of War from an independent d20 studio. Has nice rules on mass combat as well as Realms Play mechanics. I just introduced the rules a few games ago and my players are loving it. I am using it in conjunction with Heroes of Battle. Tis going well. Well as well as the Weeping War can be expected to go anyway. I keep telling them yes there is hope you can change history. SUCKERS. :evillaugh
ClobberinTime 03-27-06, 03:48 PM	Thats not a bad idea, use the rules in DMG II to run the town like a guild. It is fair to some extent, if you are giving them the land/some gold to get things started. I think your tax rate is way too high though, the monlthly salary for a Warrior 1 is 3gp so if the normal number of people to pay for this is 100 then they should have to pay 3 coppers per month.
Devo001 03-27-06, 11:01 PM	Thats not a bad idea, use the rules in DMG II to run the town like a guild. It is fair to some extent, if you are giving them the land/some gold to get things started. I think your tax rate is way too high though, the monlthly salary for a Warrior 1 is 3gp so if the normal number of people to pay for this is 100 then they should have to pay 3 coppers per month. yeah, i thought of that as well, with all the income from business taxes the population taxes can be way lower anyway
Ryan_Singer 03-28-06, 02:05 AM	I created a system for this problem and posted it to the DM's forum. Check out http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=607813 Ryan Noble Houses are, as per DMGII, both Government Guilds and Businesses. Let me explain what this means. As a Guild, in order to "join" and get the benefits of being a member of a government guild (access to a contact that can smooth over legal troubles, the ability to take out short term loans, etc), you have to either: 1. Cofound the Noble house (see business section) 2. Be a direct descendant of a co-founder 3. Marry a direct descendant of a co-founder All Noble houses have a Patron (or Matron). This individual is the member of the House with the highest Leadership Score, also posessing the Noble title of the house. They count as the owner of the business for the purposes of the business rules. Business Aspects A Noble house collects taxes from the surrounding area, but also must spend money protecting the area and enforcing the law. This is represented using the Business rules from the DMGII. A Noble House is: Primary Skill: Effective Leadership score, modified by Influence (from Power of Faerun) Secondary Skills: Diplomacy, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) Capital: High Resources: High Risk: High In order to found a noble house (as opposed to inheriting it by becoming the heir with the highest leadership score), you must satisfy a few conditions: 1. You must invest the starting cost for a high-capital business for your area (this significant investment includes recruiting, hiring and equipping the police for your domain, and any infrastructure you may need to build). 2. The king must make you a noble, usually done only if you save his life or his kingdom. 3. If you don't already own a 100,000GP Mansion, the king will give you one, which may need repairs, that you will move into. 4. You must posess the leadership feat. Playing a Noble Patron/Matron Now that you are in charge of a Noble house, the first thing you recognize is that there are a ton of costs (penalties to profit check). Raising your leadership score is paramount to not running out of funds. Not only are you probably a lord in either the wilderness (-10 to profit), or a rural area (-4), you also have the salaries of police and administrators (costs of a high resource business, -4). Not to mention that ruling is a high-risk endeavor (-4). You can start making up for this by Upgrading and hiring specialists, but your main goal will be raising your leadership modifier. Thankfully, Power of Faerun gives us a great way to do that. The influence mechanic raises leadership. The easiest way to raise influence is to recruit followers that have positions of influence in other organizations. So, you buy a residence in the capital of your nation, and hit the royal court. There you can meet heirs and P/Matrons of the other Noble houses. There are a few mechanics to pay attention to here. 1. Recruiting cohorts and followers that have the leadership feat gives you followers-by-proxy, which raises influence. 2. Recruiting followers/cohorts who have Favored-in-guild for thier noble house (favored heirs) gives a decent bonus 3. Recruiting followers/cohorts who have the guildmaster and/or Rulership feats gives a larger bonus. This means that you could have a fairly unlimited source of roleplaying opportunities trying to acquire followers at court (make deals/alliances), investing in upgrading your business (laying new roads, building new buildings, etc), and dealing with the events that happen to your territory on a monthly basis (pretty much every result on the Business-related encounters table in the DMGII is appropriate). As your influence grows, so do the fortunes of your house. I think these rules provide a great addition to the rules in Power of Faerun to help a GM run a campaign where the PC's assume rulership. In addition, remember that a Noble title also requires military service, so if your kingdom ever goes to war, you become a military leader as well. Any questions/comments?
Donkey_Headed_Adversary 03-28-06, 01:11 PM	Here's a good d20 source on such topics: "A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe" by Expeditious Retreat Press http://www.exp.citymax.com/page/page/351668.htm d.h.a.o.h.
ClobberinTime 03-28-06, 04:29 PM	Uh boy now I gotta go buy DMG II