Post/Author/DateTime	Post
First Wizard Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander 06-22-03, 12:22 PM	It's quite simple actually: Does anyone know what Bregan D'aerthe means?
Ilbreth Shadowblade 06-22-03, 12:55 PM	:omg: Good question!
Kelrain 06-22-03, 01:03 PM	Hmm, I can't even find it at R.A. Salvatore's messageboard. Ye've got me stumped. :nonono:
First Wizard Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander 06-23-03, 02:20 AM	No one knows? I'm a little bit disappointed in you people... ;) If no one is sure about the answer, what's your best guess?
Saasiel 06-23-03, 02:22 AM	"Rogues R Us?"
Major Kranz 06-23-03, 05:14 AM	'Brigade of Darkness' Its sounds for my german ear like this ;)
Another Gnome 06-23-03, 05:44 AM	I have this vague memory of having seen the meaning of the name, or at least some reference to it, mentioned in one of the Drizzt novels, Homeland probably. Don't take that as a fact, though. My guess would be something like "Exiled Mercenaries" that basically tells not to trust them, yet does it in such a straightforward manner that a drow simply can't resist the temptation to take the chance.
Qevelias 06-23-03, 12:50 PM	It isn't something with rogue , because that is shebali . Outcast can't be it , cause that's dobluthan. The only thing I can tell you is that ( d' ) means ( of ). I'll keep looking !
Silvertongue 06-23-03, 12:57 PM	Originally posted by Major Kranz 'Brigade of Darkness' Its sounds for my german ear like this ;) Isn't it 'Brotherhood' ?
Qevelias 06-23-03, 01:37 PM	Nope , brotherhood = vla'rinnyn. O' and it isn't darkness ( oloth ) either !
Dark Reaver 06-23-03, 01:40 PM	It is two meaningless words that are deliberately meant to confuse people
Silvertongue 06-23-03, 02:10 PM	Originally posted by Qevelias Nope , brotherhood = vla'rinnyn. O' and it isn't darkness ( oloth ) either ! Ta, I'm now going to create a renegade group of surface (evi) drow called Vla'rinnyn D'oloth! Thanks for the idea! :smirk:
Qevelias 06-23-03, 02:18 PM	Originally posted by Silvertongue Ta, I'm now going to create a renegade group of surface (evi) drow called Vla'rinnyn D'oloth! Thanks for the idea! :smirk: Hope that you'll have a lot of fun with it , perhaps keep it original and make them worship Vhaerun:rolleyes: No hard feelings !!!
Major Kranz 06-23-03, 03:09 PM	May be, there are two different words for similar meaning.
Jhareth of house Noquar 06-23-03, 04:00 PM	The Drow have numerous words for the concept of "darkness", much in the way Eskimos have 100+ words for "snow."
Faeryl Zauvirr 06-23-03, 08:21 PM	I am sure I have seen this somewhere. I believe it is the name of a noble drow house in Menzoberrenzan. In fact I am quite sure. :D
Orbdrin Mizzrym 06-24-03, 04:51 AM	Bregan D'aerthe has no meaning, its just a name. Throughout the books i've read, i've never seen a meaning for the name. A drow name doesn't always have a meaning. Although, I think that names that have a translated meaning are rather dull (Although, in my case, I break this rule. ;) Orbdrin is translated as Mask), im almost positive that Bregan D'aerthe doesn't have a translated name. Its like House Baenre or Xorlarrin, they are both names and aren't translated as specific words. Same goes for all the houses of Menzo, all the higher ranking ones anyways. If someone does manage to scrape up a translated name for Bregan D'aerthe, the devious mercenary company opperating throughout Menzoberranzan, i'd be thoroughly suprised. :)
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 06-24-03, 04:54 AM	The English translation of the phrase Bregan D'aerthe is... Bregan D'aerthe.
First Wizard Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander 06-24-03, 06:13 PM	Bregan D'aerthe may be just a name. But it might just as well be that the translation has just not yet been included in a story... Somehow I can't imagine taking a senseless name for a band of mercenaries. Anyway, the name must have some kind of origin, don't you think?
cwslyclgh 06-24-03, 07:09 PM	all names have meanings... (even words that the author just makes up, it just measn that the author hasn't decided what they mean yet)... for example Michael means "Like god" Conrad means "Wise Counciler" etc. I am sure that Drow follow the naming conventions of other languages, whether RA feels like revealing what the names mean is something else entirly.
Maskanodel 06-24-03, 08:36 PM	I always thought that "Bregan D'aerthe" meant something like "houseless ones" or "houseless rogues"
Silvertongue 06-24-03, 08:42 PM	Briza refers to them as such in 'Exile' but from the text it would appear that is just what she calls them. :)
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 06-24-03, 10:01 PM	"Brotherhood of Exiles"?
cwslyclgh 06-25-03, 02:10 AM	why doesn't somebody just email Rob and ask him? (Doesn't he have an email listed on his site?)
First Wizard Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander 06-26-03, 03:13 AM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh why doesn't somebody just email Rob and ask him? (Doesn't he have an email listed on his site?) Did anyone really try to do this...?
cwslyclgh 06-26-03, 06:05 PM	I am not even sure where Robs site is located, but I have heard other people talk about his site and his message boards.
Ilbreth Shadowblade 06-26-03, 06:09 PM	RAS website. (http://www.rasalvatore.com)
VengefulGazeofGod 06-27-03, 12:27 AM	There, I e-mailed him asking your question. I normally get responses in about a week or two, so I will post his response when I get it. :cool:
First Wizard Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander 06-27-03, 03:20 AM	Great, thanks! How often have you done this if I may ask...? :D
FineasBoggs 06-27-03, 11:34 PM	Don't know about the first part but the second is similar to the word Darthiir which means, among other detestable things, traitor.
madamanga 12-04-06, 08:41 AM	My guess is that Bregan D'aerthe means "Patrons of the Streets." "Patrons of the Streets" would be a grandiose, but mocking, term for "houseless males." Hence, such a name would be disarmingly blatent about discribing what the band is mostly made up of. (Which would in turn mock the perceptions of the Matron Mothers who deal with them). However, given Jarlaxle's love of double entrées, it could also be interpreted straight forwardly as "male leaders of the streets," with Jarlaxle claiming leadership to an area far greater than any single house could ever be. All the street of Menzoberranzan are his, and the traditional house just get their castles. Jarlaxle does actually confirm his belief in this at one point. There is a scene in "Exile" where Dinin rides a lizard though lesser Menzoberranzan. Jarlaxle appears behind him stating, "One should ask permission before entering another's home." "I am out in the open streets," Dinin replies. "My home," refutes Jarlaxle. "Should a noble of a ruling house,then, ask Jarlaxle's permission before leaving his front gate?...And what of Matron Baenre, who would not enter the least of Menzoberranzan's houses without seeking permission from the appropriate matron mother? Should Matron Baenre, too, ask permission of Jarlaxle, the houseless rogue?" Dinin tries to insult Jarlaxle. To which Jarlaxle smiles sincerely and bows. (See pages 457/8 in the Dark Elf collection & probably pages 182/3 in Exile). A nice side point to this theory is that the name he gives himself, Jarlaxle D'aerthe, would in essense mean "Jarlaxle of the Streets." This would be fitting for a drow who was thrown out of his house as a baby & left to die. It would show how much he rejects his birth house & the drow society of houses altogether. So, what do you guys think?
Zireael 12-04-06, 08:56 AM	The street is 'colbauth' in drow. But it's a good question.
Lord Karsus 12-04-06, 09:01 PM	-Someone PM Zanan, and I am sure she can help. She is a Kiransaleen, but is knowledgable on all things Drow. -And madamanga, I like your translation. The mighty Karsus complements few, so be honored. :)
Shazured 12-05-06, 10:16 PM	My guess is that Bregan D'aerthe means "Patrons of the Streets." "Patrons of the Streets" would be a grandiose, but mocking, term for "houseless males." Hence, such a name would be disarmingly blatent about discribing what the band is mostly made up of. (Which would in turn mock the perceptions of the Matron Mothers who deal with them). However, given Jarlaxle's love of double entrées, it could also be interpreted straight forwardly as "male leaders of the streets," with Jarlaxle claiming leadership to an area far greater than any single house could ever be. All the street of Menzoberranzan are his, and the traditional house just get their castles. Jarlaxle does actually confirm his belief in this at one point. There is a scene in "Exile" where Dinin rides a lizard though lesser Menzoberranzan. Jarlaxle appears behind him stating, "One should ask permission before entering another's home." "I am out in the open streets," Dinin replies. "My home," refutes Jarlaxle. "Should a noble of a ruling house,then, ask Jarlaxle's permission before leaving his front gate?...And what of Matron Baenre, who would not enter the least of Menzoberranzan's houses without seeking permission from the appropriate matron mother? Should Matron Baenre, too, ask permission of Jarlaxle, the houseless rogue?" Dinin tries to insult Jarlaxle. To which Jarlaxle smiles sincerely and bows. (See pages 457/8 in the Dark Elf collection & probably pages 182/3 in Exile). A nice side point to this theory is that the name he gives himself, Jarlaxle D'aerthe, would in essense mean "Jarlaxle of the Streets." This would be fitting for a drow who was thrown out of his house as a baby & left to die. It would show how much he rejects his birth house & the drow society of houses altogether. So, what do you guys think? Is it ever mentioned why Jaraxle was thrown/or otherwise removed from house Baentre? I've read every piece of drow literure that I can find except the servant of the shard trilogy(got a few books before it) and I can't find out why
Alurvelve 12-05-06, 11:13 PM	After the next trilogy of Drizzt novels he plans to write a stand alone novel dealing with Jaralxe and Zak (obviously in the past). Maybe in that novel (which would come out in 2010) we will learn the meaninf of this group and how they got started exactly. So far I like Patrons of the Streets the most. What about something with lost in it?
Straploknight 12-06-06, 05:56 AM	Bregan D'aerthe = Bad (Bregan) Arse (D'aerthe) Man, dont you guys know anything!
Zanan 12-06-06, 06:04 AM	-Someone PM Zanan, and I am sure she can help. She is a Kiransaleen, but is knowledgable on all things Drow. Why being so shy and not PMing me yourself? Well, the Menzoberranzan - box has, in the Houses section, a special entry on the mercenaries, but do not relate anything on the meaning of the name. Nor does the Menzoberranzan entry in the Villains' Lorebook. Matter of factly, I never came accross a line saying what it means. Maybe RAS or Ed Greenwood can answer this, as they both worked on the box. Off to Candlekeep then ...
Lord Karsus 12-06-06, 09:46 AM	Why being so shy and not PMing me yourself? :blush: -That is a very good question. Why didn't I PM you? :confused: -Well, you are here, so in the end, it matters not.
lone_ranger_84 12-07-06, 09:54 AM	SPOILER Is it ever mentioned why Jaraxle was thrown/or otherwise removed from house Baentre? I've read every piece of drow literure that I can find except the servant of the shard trilogy(got a few books before it) and I can't find out why I do not Remember the Book it was in But I want to say it was in the Servant of the Shard at The very End of the Book It Says something along the lines of Jarlaxe Baenre 3rd born son of house Baenre.
Alurvelve 12-07-06, 03:08 PM	Road to Patriarch exsplains some. Go pick it up its a geat read IMHO.
JaiaDrottsingr 12-08-06, 04:36 PM	I... consider myself a drow specialist, but I can't find a *recent* version of the language. I always thought it meant "Bane of Life" or "Death Exultant" or some such thing as would make sense. In English grammar. Anyways.
Lord Karsus 12-08-06, 05:33 PM	I... consider myself a drow specialist, but I can't find a *recent* version of the language. -What do you mean, "recent version"? There is only one version of Faerûnian Drow(not including geographical variants and similar conditions).
JaiaDrottsingr 12-08-06, 10:03 PM	-What do you mean, "recent version"? There is only one version of Faerûnian Drow(not including geographical variants and similar conditions). Most recent revision. :shifty:
Lord Karsus 12-09-06, 12:14 AM	Most recent revision. :shifty: -But, there haven't been any revisions. The language was written once, in one of those 2e Underdark books (Drow of the Underdark, most likely. I don't remember off-hand). 3e hasn't done anything with the language...It's the same as it was in 2e.
JaiaDrottsingr 12-09-06, 09:58 AM	Everytime I find the stupid language it's incomplete!
Lord Karsus 12-09-06, 06:59 PM	Everytime I find the stupid language it's incomplete! -If they are fantasy languages, then of course they are going to be incomplete. The greatest fantasy language created solely for the purpose of fantasy (Tolkien's Elven [Quenya and Sindarin]) is incomplete! Unless a whole bunch of extremely talented and dedicated individuals suddenly say, "Let's make Drow an actual language", it's going to stay incomplete.
Prendoriasslyth 12-09-06, 07:16 PM	Actually, in Promise of the Witch-King, Jarlaxle states that his last name is D'aerth. I don't know if this was a lie by him or not, but if it's true, it's something to think on.
Lord Karsus 12-09-06, 07:54 PM	Actually, in Promise of the Witch-King, Jarlaxle states that his last name is D'aerth. I don't know if this was a lie by him or not, but if it's true, it's something to think on. -It is a lie, as Jarlaxle is the third son of Matron Yvonnel Baenre, making him a Baenre. It's pretty likely that Jarlaxle doesn't use his actual name quite often, making D'aerth a kind of "pseudonym".
Mocab 12-10-06, 06:29 PM	I think it means " Housless Rouges/Brigands"
madamanga 12-12-06, 11:02 AM	After the next trilogy of Drizzt novels he plans to write a stand alone novel dealing with Jaralxe and Zak (obviously in the past). Maybe in that novel (which would come out in 2010) we will learn the meaninf of this group and how they got started exactly. Where did you hear about a stand-alone Jarlaxle/Zaknefien historic novel from, Alurvelve? Do you have any links? I'd love to see Jarlaxle's background explained! On another note... There must be several different versions of drow about Zireael said ‘colbauth’ is street in drow, but I’ve also had feed back that ‘ssrethalas’ is also drow for street! (Thank you though, Zireael). In the books they talk about Drow Common, High Drow and Low Drow – so that’s 3 different drow languages already! (I think they also mentioned Deep Drow (?))
Alurvelve 12-12-06, 01:46 PM	CHeck out his website and there he talks about it. He plans on doing a novel about those 2 after he has completed this next Drizzt trilogy.
The_Shaman 12-12-06, 03:01 PM	Ok let's try it. Now, I don't know if Salvatore wrote his books before the drow dictionary that most sites use was updated, but there's no harm in trying. I'm using various dictionaries, and would be thankful if anyone could provide a more complete archive. D' is probably short of "del", meaning "of" (http://php.iupui.edu/~asimmon/drow.html) Aerth... well, I checked at the dictionary at http://www.eilistraee.com/chosen/language.php?page=drow, and here's what I have: ply'usaerth - kidnap ply'uss - 1 capture 2 arrest => aerth means something like "person" or "man", probably here "people." (Check-up: ssins is allure and root for many words related to charm or love, while Ssins d'Aerth is an entertainer/prostitute at http://php.iupui.edu/~asimmon/drow.html, so it seems to check out) I can't find anything about Bregan, though. It may be a name - " Bregan's people/band", in which case Jarlaxle might have taken over the band in the past. Knowing him, it might also mean something like "daredevil" or "scoundrel", but these are just ideas.
Alurvelve 12-13-06, 02:18 AM	What about breacking up Bregan? Like Bre and then Gan, or Breg then An. Could that lead to someting?
madamanga 12-13-06, 08:31 AM	What about breaking up Bregan? Like Bre and then Gan, or Breg then An. Could that lead to someting? I tried looking by breaking down the name on the Drow name generator; http://drowcampaign.roleplaynexus.com/drowlanguage.html Unfortunately, there's nothing under prefixes for Bre or Breg, or under suffixes for gan or an! However, you may be interested to know that; Jarlaxle Baenre means Jar = charmed, rune, symbol / axle = ally, companion, friend Baen = blessed by / (closest was I could find was) rae = fell powers So Jarlaxle Baenre really is your 'charming friend who's blessed by fell powers.' Drizzt Do'Urden means Driz = hard, steel, unyielding / zt = finder, hunter Do' = Walkers in / Urden = the darkness Drizzt Do'Urden is an 'unyielding hunter who walks in the darkness.' Apt. Zaknafein means Zakn = dusk, haunted, shadow / afein = bane, executioner, slayer Zaknafein could mean 'haunted executioner!' Prophetic!
The_Shaman 12-13-06, 11:27 AM	Or "Shadowbane". Anyway, I'm having trouble with Bregan. -abban means allly or agent, say for a house (Qu'abban) or temple (Yath'abban). - an can also mean "self" (its is olt, itself - oltan; ours - uldost, ourselves - uldostan). Abb- is a part of "abban" - ally and "abbil" - (something like comrade or friend, or whatever drow have as a concept), so it would probably mean some kind of closeness. Bre- appears only in Jabbress (mistress, as opposed to jabbuk - master). However, there it is probably a part of the "ress" suffix that can be used to indicate force (z'ress = strength) or female gender (elg'caress = *****, hag; valsharess - queen; ilharess - matron). Trivia: Ironically, -sharess is part of the world for "goddess" in the drow language. I was often perplexed why the Drowtales comic would use this word as an appelation to their deity.
MissEntreri 12-14-06, 08:18 AM	All i know is that Jarlaxle uses D'aerthe as his own last name several times throughout the novels...you know... with him supposed to be dead and all from Matron Mother Banre sacrificing him to Lolth when he was Weapns Master.
The_Shaman 12-14-06, 01:26 PM	I tried looking by breaking down the name on the Drow name generator; http://drowcampaign.roleplaynexus.com/drowlanguage.html I'm not quite sure about the source, btw. Some of their words seem to conflict those in the other dictionaries. Anyway, Briz/berg is the closest I can find, meaning "graceful, fluid". "The people of the Graceful One?" More than a little weird, if you ask me, but it doesn't get much better. Edit: I was told he was sacrificed as a child (3rd male), why wait until he's a weapon master?